I need help building a ruby ​​knight vindicator

[Wichi]

well I just joined a one shot in which the master allows all books and forgives up to LA +2, the one shot is up to lv 15 characters at the moment this is what I have in mind, it allows any race.

So I have the following in mind.

my roll were the following:

17
16
16
12
12
10

*race: athasian human with draconic template.

Ability Scores:
str 12+2+2=16
dex 12+0=12
Con 16+2=18
int 10+0=10
Wis 17+2+3=22
char 16+2=18

build:
swordsage 1/ crusader 1/ cleric cloistered 1 / ruby ​​knight vindicator 10/ swordsage 1

I would go with the destroy undead variant of the cleric.

with this I would be like a divine caster of lv 9 and an initiator of lv 13

As feats I had the following in mind:

1: extra turning
1(human): extend spell
3: persist spell
6: divine metamagic (persist spell)
9:(power attack)
12: Close Quarters Fighting

At the moment I don't know what feat to put on lv 15.

but in general my idea was to take advantage of persist spell for seed of life and divine power spells to be able to always be in front using setting sun, devoted spirit and shadow hand maneuvers to maintain mobility and damage.

[Gruftzwerg]

build:
swordsage 1/ crusader 1/ cleric cloistered 1 / ruby ​​knight vindicator 10/ swordsage 1


Do you get DM fiat for early entry?


Skills: Hide 4 ranks , Intimidate 4 ranks , Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks
Normally you'll need to be 5th lvl to have 8 ranks in a skill. Thus earliest entry for RKV is normally lvl 6 and not 4.

[Wichi]

Do you get DM fiat for early entry?


Normally you'll need to be 5th lvl to have 8 ranks in a skill. Thus earliest entry for RKV is normally lvl 6 and not 4.

my mistake, I don't know why I thought the skill max point was lv+4 then it would be instead:

swordsage 1/ crusader 2/ swordsage 1/ cloistered cleric 1/ ruby ​​knight vindicator 10

[Gruftzwerg]

Why Close Quarters Fighting? Imho not that helpful with low DEX and without Combat Reflexes. And it's a niche feat since grapple is not always common in every campaign. As such a risky choice imho.

Since you want to take Power Attack, I would suggest to take Imp. Bullrush and Shock Trooper to go the Ubercharger route. As Cleric you have the spell "Knight's Move". It's a 3rd lvl swift action spell that teleports you over a short distance on the battlemap. Use it to reposition and to charge every turn for max dmg.

[Anthrowhale]

You might skip out of RKV 8+ in favor of Sacred Exorcist to double your turning pool.

People typically want to (ab)use RKV 7's Divine Impetus which can be moderate to overwhelming in effect, depending on the usage pattern. The important point though is that this is a serious consumer of turn/rebuke, which suggests one of (a) give up on persistomancy (b) use a different route (such as spelldancer) or (c) give up on the primary reason why people really like RKV from an optimization point of view.

[pabelfly]

How are you getting the Extra Turning at first level if your first level isnt Cloistered Cleric?

[Rebel7284]

I have questions/concerns.

1. If you have Extra Turning at first level, you probably want to start with Cloistered Cleric since being able to turn/rebuke undead is a requirement to take that feat.

2. In general, while Divine Metamagic is one of the most powerful tools that a Cleric can get, a Ruby Knight Vindicator already loses several levels of casting progression. Giving up MORE, may cause problems. Investing build resources to the tune of 3 feats and then losing more progression is just anti-synergy.

3. Athasian Human is nifty, but also doesn't really offer much for RKV specifically. If you are looking at being good, the Saint template is amazing for +2LA, although roleplaying exalted alignment is not easy in all campaigns. Not a huge deal regardless.

4. You can't persist touch spells like Seed of Life.

5. Close-Quarters Fighting is very very niche and while some monsters do enjoy grappling, you are might better off just getting some Anklets of Translocation for 1400gp and teleporting out of grapples as a swift action 2/day.

I would go with Cloistered Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV +2

Sacred Exorcist gives you a second turning pool to use with Divine Metamagic and/or Divine Impetus since you conveniently took Destroy Undead, and Extra Turning should boost both equally.

You end up with 12 levels of Cleric casting.
Initator level 12
for 5th level spells and maneuvers.

Edit: you don't even need Anklets of Translocation, RKV gets access to Shadow Hand, so you can just pick up the teleport maneuvers naturally on your initiator side!
Edit2: Half the points have been covered while I was typing this. Ha!

[Wichi]

well I have traumas with enemies with +40 grapple, but you're right I was reviewing items and I could use some anklets of translocation to free myself from prey such as anklets the master allows me to use it with boots.

I hadn't thought about the ubercharger route, thanks for the suggestions.

Regarding the turn attempts, apart from the additional turn I was thinking of buying the items that give you additional turn attempts to be able to use persist metamagic 1 or 2 times a day and then keep a couple of attempts to have extra quick actions.

I had also thought about going with Quicken Spell [Metamagic] instead.

my answer was left obsolete by the various points. Does Saint's Wis to Ac bonus stack with Swordsage's Wis to Ac bonus?

[Rebel7284]

You might skip out of RKV 8+ in favor of Sacred Exorcist to double your turning pool.

People typically want to (ab)use RKV 7's Divine Impetus which can be moderate to overwhelming in effect, depending on the usage pattern. The important point though is that this is a serious consumer of turn/rebuke, which suggests one of (a) give up on persistomancy (b) use a different route (such as spelldancer) or (c) give up on the primary reason why people really like RKV from an optimization point of view.

In addition to usage this depends on if your DM allows you to take a single extra swift action per turn (as Divine Impetus was probably intended) or unlimited swift actions per turn. If there is a limit, I would argue that with a solid charisma, two turning pools, and a Nightstick or two, many characters will have enough turn attempts left over after DMM to use Divine Impetus too! Especially if you can Extend your Persisted spells to last 48 hours (RAW legal but kinda silly)

[Wichi]

about the additional turn, that was overlooked but it doesn't hurt too much either, I just change the lv in which I choose .

.where does it say that cannot persist metamagic a seed of life?

[Rebel7284]

Does Saint's Wis to Ac bonus stack with Swordsage's Wis to Ac bonus?

It should. The abilities have slightly different names (Armor Class vs. AC Bonus) and give a bonus of a different type (insight bonus vs. untyped)


where does it say that cannot persist metamagic a seed of life?



Spells with a fixed or personal range can have their duration increased to 24 hours




Range

Personal
The spell affects only you.

Touch
You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Close
The spell reaches as far as 25 feet away from you. The maximum range increases by 5 feet for every two full caster levels.

Medium
The spell reaches as far as 100 feet + 10 feet per caster level.

Long
The spell reaches as far as 400 feet + 40 feet per caster level.

Unlimited
The spell reaches anywhere on the same plane of existence.

Range Expressed in Feet
Some spells have no standard range category, just a range expressed in feet.


We don't have 100% knowledge what "fixed range" means exactly, but most people believe it has to be a single number, like 0 ft, 5 ft, or 1 mile.
How far your touch can reach can change due to various factors like changing in size or making a touch attack with a reach weapon.

This is not 100% clear and some people disagree, but most people on internet forums agree with this logic. :)

Edit: I just re-read Seed of Life and realized that it has an until discharged clause. Persistent Spell explicitly forbids spells that can be discharged from being persisted.

[Analytica]

I guess you refluff it, but Athasian humans are from a world where 1) there are no gods or clerics and 2) dragons are a very specific kind of high-level template requiring epic level spells to get into. Thus the fact that one is a Draconic template cleric usually would seem strange? Is it representing some other form of "I am from such a harsh land that I am better than normal" background?

[Particle_Man]

Is setting Sun that crucial to you? Because you would seem to get more out of ditching the swordsage levels for either cleric or crusader levels.

[Wichi]

Well, I'll ask the master what he thinks later. thanks for the tips.

I was seeing what I can do and for now.

I would stay with this build race: lesser aasimari with saint template

Ability score:

Str 16+0=16
Dex12+0=12
Con16+2=18
Int 10= 10
Wis 17+2+2+3=24
cha 12+6= 18

feat:
1) extend spell
3) persist spell
6) divine metamagic (persist spell)
9) power attack
12) improved bull rush
15) shocktropper

build:
claustered cleric 2/ crusader 1/ swordsage 2/ ruby ​​knight vindicator 8/ sacred exorcist 1/ swordsage 1.

I would have the turn attempts of two classes if I did not misunderstand and in case they do not add up I will still keep the objects that increase your daily turn attempts.

leaving caster level 9 and initiator level 13 for swordsage and 11 for the RKV, other than wis*2 to ac.

What spell up to lv 5 of cleric do you recommend?

[Particle_Man]

Divine Favour, Divine Power and Righteous Might are nice if you have time to buff before a combat.

[Saintheart]

Also, why Cloistered Cleric?

Don't get me wrong, I like Knowledge-based clerics, but you're not taking Knowledge Devotion and your INT score is 10. You're basically giving up heavy armor proficiency and losing 1 BAB for basically all Knowledge skills as class skills and Fox's Cunning. You don't have to be a Cloistered Cleric to get Knowledge (Religion), it's a class skill for regular clerics too.

If it's because Cloistered Cleric has 6+INT and thus supplies you with skill points ... well, it still doesn't solve your problem because of max skill ranks. Cloistered Cleric 2/ crusader 1/ swordsage 2 won't qualify you for Ruby Knight Vindicator because you're missing 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), Swordsage doesn't have it as a class skill, which means it's cross-class.

The problem being that cross-class skills are capped, it's [level+3]/2 for any cross-class skill. So at level 5, as a Swordsage, your maximum possible skill rank in Knowledge (Religion) is 4 ([level+3]/2). Quite literally, once you leave Crusader or Cleric, you can't push that skill any higher until you've got to a level high enough to be able to have enough ranks in it. There are certain ways around that - either begging your DM to waive the skill rank cap for cross-class skills, or picking up a feat which deems a particular class skill as always a class skill - but it obviously means reworking the build.


The default earliest entry path to RKV is usually Crusader 1/Cleric 4. Trickery domain gives you Hide as a class skill, Crusader gets Intimidate as a class skill, and they both have Knowledge (Religion). At INT 10, Crusader 1 = 16 skill points at first level, 4 levels in Cleric gives you 8 total. The Crusader's skill point total alone covers you for the 16 skill points you need to buy the skill ranks required. And this loses the minimum number of cleric caster levels possible - frankly you're going to need each and every one if you're going to Divine Metamagic (All The Things).


EDIT: Or alternatively, if you're fixed on Swordsage, take the 2 levels at the start of your build rather than at character level 4-5. That gives you 4 ranks in Hide and Intimidate, and then leave it to your Crusader and Cleric levels to supply the rest. But that, of course, messes with taking Extend Spell at first level. Maybe.

[Rebel7284]

Also, why Cloistered Cleric?

Don't get me wrong, I like Knowledge-based clerics, but you're not taking Knowledge Devotion and your INT score is 10. You're basically giving up heavy armor proficiency and losing 1 BAB for basically all Knowledge skills as class skills and Fox's Cunning. You don't have to be a Cloistered Cleric to get Knowledge (Religion), it's a class skill for regular clerics too.

If it's because Cloistered Cleric has 6+INT and thus supplies you with skill points ... well, it still doesn't solve your problem because of max skill ranks. Cloistered Cleric 2/ crusader 1/ swordsage 2 won't qualify you for Ruby Knight Vindicator because you're missing 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion), Swordsage doesn't have it as a class skill, which means it's cross-class.

The problem being that cross-class skills are capped, it's [level+3]/2 for any cross-class skill. So at level 5, as a Swordsage, your maximum possible skill rank in Knowledge (Religion) is 4 ([level+3]/2). Quite literally, once you leave Crusader or Cleric, you can't push that skill any higher until you've got to a level high enough to be able to have enough ranks in it. There are certain ways around that - either begging your DM to waive the skill rank cap for cross-class skills, or picking up a feat which deems a particular class skill as always a class skill, but it obviously means reworking the build.


The default earliest entry path to RKV is usually Crusader 1/Cleric 4. Trickery domain gives you Hide as a class skill, Crusader gets Intimidate as a class skill, and they both have Knowledge (Religion). At INT 10, Crusader 1 = 16 skill points at first level,4 levels in Cleric gives you 8 total. The Crusader's skill point total alone covers you for the 16 skill points you need to buy the skill ranks required.


EDIT: Or alternatively, if you're fixed on Swordsage, stick the 2 levels up at level 1-2. That gives you 4 ranks in Hide and Intimidate, and then either spend the rest on Knowledge (Religion) ranks cross-class or leave it to your Crusader and Cleric levels to supply the rest.

You are mistaken about how cross class skills work. Once a skill is a class skill for even a single level, the skill cap always remains the higher one, even if it costs 2 skill points.

The BAB is a non-issue since the build starts out AFTER it can persist Divine Power.

You don't want heavy armor anyway since it messes with mobility.

So you're only giving up a few HP and getting a useful domain (or Knowledge Devotion) back for it and some extra skill points.

Also, you always want to take Cleric first since that allows you to take higher level maneuvers once you enter Crusader.

[Saintheart]

You are mistaken about how cross class skills work. Once a skill is a class skill for even a single level, the skill cap always remains the higher one, even if it costs 2 skill points.

And it seems you are right! Page 56, PHB. :)

[Wichi]

I can only wear light armor if I want wis*2 to ac and I want that wis*2 doing calculations my ac would be as follows once I can have the buffs and items that increase wisdom and dex

you already know the typical ones:

gloves of dexterity +4
Arm of nyr
crown of wisdom +6

remaining as follows if you calculate correctly.

10 (base)+ 20 (wis*2)+4 (dex)+ 5 (leather armor +2)+ 2(animated heavy shield)+4 (natural armor necklace) + 3( shield of faith)

staying at 47

and I guess there are more things that increase my ca that I don't know, if you could tell me I would appreciate it.


I need ac because the fixed boss hits with +40 and everything that can enter

[Saintheart]

and I guess there are more things that increase my ca that I don't know, if you could tell me I would appreciate it.


I need ac because the fixed boss hits with +40 and everything that can enter


Well, another that sort-of by default increases your AC are concealment chances. RKV gets access to Shadow Hand which has a stance or two along those lines, and then there's Blink and Displacement if you can pick them up in items or maybe via the Spell domain.

[Wichi]

This is the first time I play cleric and I wanted to know what domains you recommend.

wee jas domains are:
death, domination, law, magic, mind.

what do you recomend me?

[Particle_Man]

Magic adds versatility.

[Saintheart]

Oh yeah, on AC don't forget a Ring of Protection. Deflection bonus, stacks with everything elder already mentioned.

[Rebel7284]

This is the first time I play cleric and I wanted to know what domains you recommend.

wee jas domains are:
death, domination, law, magic, mind.

what do you recomend me?

What I would recommend is Magic for low level wand usage and then trade Law domain for Law Devotion feat (also trade Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion).

Law Devotion gives you +7 to attack rolls OR +7 to AC for a minute, and if you have any turn attempts left over, you can use the feat several times a day! +7 is a sizable bonus and a minute often lasts for the full encounter.

[Wichi]

[



Oh yeah, on AC don't forget a Ring of Protection. Deflection bonus, stacks with everything elder already mentioned.

the bonus of shield of faith and ring of protection is the same, that's why I didn't put it

QUOTE=Rebel7284;25633480]What I would recommend is Magic for low level wand usage and then trade Law domain for Law Devotion feat (also trade Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion).

Law Devotion gives you +7 to attack rolls OR +7 to AC for a minute, and if you have any turn attempts left over, you can use the feat several times a day! +7 is a sizable bonus and a minute often lasts for the full encounter.[/QUOTE]

How do you change domains for feats? I had no idea that it could.

Is the spontaneus domain casting alternative class feature worth it? it looks quite interesting.

. apart from that it seems that I have everything solved, thanks for the help.

[Anthrowhale]

This is probably higher op than you are looking for, but you could do something like:

Cleric 6/Spelldancer 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV 7 or even Archivist 6/Spelldancer 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV 7. This would allow you persist many spells rather than just a few.

[Wichi]

This is probably higher op than you are looking for, but you could do something like:

Cleric 6/Spelldancer 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV 7 or even Archivist 6/Spelldancer 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV 7. This would allow you persist many spells rather than just a few.

i wanted a starter that can have cleric spells to support how i get high stats i decided to go for the rkv i also came up with the phoenix jade mage.

but i went with clergyman because i never used it before

[Rebel7284]

How do you change domains for feats? I had no idea that it could.




Clerics and Domain Feats: If you are a cleric (or any
other character class who gains access to a domain), you
can choose any domain feat corresponding to the list of
domains offered by your deity, even if you do not have
access to those particular domains. A cleric of Pelor, for
example, can choose to cast spells from the Good and
Healing domains but select the Strength Devotion and
Sun Devotion feats.
In addition, you can choose to give up access to a domain
in exchange for the corresponding domain feat. Doing so
allows you to select up to three domain feats, but you cannot
prepare domain spells or use the granted power of the sacri
ficed domain. In essence, you trade in a domain for an extra
feat slot that you can spend only on a specific domain feat.
For example, the above cleric of Pelor could choose to give
up the granted power and spells of the Good domain for the
Good Devotion feat


See above. Looking at the wording, I am not 100% sure they meant for characters to do it more than once to get multiple domain feats. Unclear.

[Wichi]

clever.

then the build would be left in this way.

race: lesser aasimar with saint template.

build:
cloustered cleric 2/crusader 1/ swordsage 2/ RKV 8/ sacred exorcist 1/ swordsage 1

I wrote the stats before and they don't change.

I would stay with the domain of magic.

and I would change the law domain and knowledge domain for its version of feat

As an alternate class feature, I was thinking of choosing spontaneous domain casting, so I can cast magic domain spells as spontaneous.

any good lv 5 spell or less apart from the most typical?

[Rebel7284]

As an alternate class feature, I was thinking of choosing spontaneous domain casting, so I can cast magic domain spells as spontaneous.


This seems like a bad idea. Since Magic is your only remaining domain, you have to prepare each of its spells once anyway, and while spontaneous Dispel Magic is very nifty, the other spells are not necessarily very useful. I would much rather have the option to convert an unused spell into Cure Critical Wounds in an emergency than Imbue with Spell Ability.

[Curbludgeon]

In terms of adding turning pools to a Persistent Spell RKV I guess I'd go either a Destroy Undead variant cleric or the Azurin Cleric substitution level, combined with Turn Undead from Sacred Exorcist. Sacrificing more than 1 Crusader level before taking RKV, or any spellcaster levels other than the 1 Crusader and 2 required from RKV, is unequivocally a deliberate choice to hamstring one's character.