Bark skin

[Spacehamster]

So I did a Google but only found stuff about the shield spell, my question does bark skin plus an equipped shield item make your AC 18?

[Sherlockpwns]

Sadly, no. Bark skin is mildly terrible in this edition. All it does it set your ac “floor” to 16 (which is pretty ****). So if your ac was 14 cast the spell it would become 16. Equipping a shield would do nothing, as your AC with a shield would be the same as with bark skin.

The only very limited use most people see is casting it on yourself as a moon Druid or maybe on a polymorphed person, but even then there are probably better uses of that spell slot.

It’s a neglected D&D staple spell. For some reason fireball gets extra dice for being iconic and bark skin gets shat on.

[Arkhios]

Yeah, Barkskin wording is very strange.

Fortunately, they have acknowledged this and seem to have taken different approach in their designs towards the '24 rules update.

I don't have the details in front of me but IIRC, they have changed it to bestow Temporary Hit Points instead, which is in my honest opinion better than what it is now.

[Segev]

The specifics of the current UA's playtest version of 5.1 Barkskin are:


You touch one willing creature to protect it with regenerating bark. Until the Spell ends, the target’s skin assumes a bark-like appearance, and at the start of each of the target’s turns, the target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to your Spellcasting Ability Modifier plus your Proficiency Bonus.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this Spell using a Spell Slot of 3rd level or higher, you can target one additional willing creature for each slot level above 2nd.

So a single-target version of the Twilight Cleric's arguably most-broken ability, as a 2nd level spell. Actually pretty balanced at that cost level, and with that many targets. Also takes Concentration, but lasts for up to an hour.

Essentially pseudo-damage-reduction, though less effective against multiple attacks.

[Willie the Duck]

Yeah, Barkskin wording is very strange.

Fortunately, they have acknowledged this and seem to have taken different approach in their designs towards the '24 rules update.

I don't have the details in front of me but IIRC, they have changed it to bestow Temporary Hit Points instead, which is in my honest opinion better than what it is now.

Agreed, D&D 2024 looks like it will have a different Barkskin. Although, to me, the version they put forth in the UA seems like a perfectly decent spell, but not really very Barkskin-like. IMO, the iconic idea behind the spell is so druids can be wandering around in little to nothing without that being crippling in a D&D game. I would have preferred if it (and maybe Shillelagh) were class features instead of spells. Barring that, just model the thing after Mage Armor (level 1, no concentration, etc.), but maybe give it Tortle-like AC (17, 19 with shield) instead of Mage Armor's 13+Dex (really high dex druids are already jaunting around with shield and leathers*).
*or studded leather if the DM notes that the armor description doesn't stipulate metal studs or spikes

Regardless, yes, 5e Barkskin as it is now is hot garbage. Similar to Witch Bolt, I feel like it was designed for an earlier (lower power) version of the game and didn't get adjusted up when the devs figured out the basic power level for which they were shooting.

[Emongnome777]

The only very limited use most people see is casting it on yourself as a moon Druid or maybe on a polymorphed person, but even then there are probably better uses of that spell slot.

+1

My brother is playing a moon druid and does exactly this (4th level). Like you said, there probably are better uses for the slot, but I think it's fun to him, so more power. There are some CR 1 beasts that you get decent value, though. A brown bear will have an AC bump of 11 to 16, making it a little more tanky. The hit points aren't high, but it's one of very few with multiattack. Or bump up the AC of giant hyena from 12 to 16, making it much more tanky on top of its 45 hit points. Several other beasts (MM ones, I didn't check other sources) have an AC of 12 or lower.

Again, not saying this is a good choice, just that some may find it a fun choice.

[Segev]

Extant barkskin was definitely conceived by the original 5e writers as something druids wore to protect them in wild shape forms that were low AC. The trouble is that it's Concentration, and druids will almost always want a concentration spell up when they enter Wild Shape, so it's competing for that slot. Much more AC, and I imagine it would feature frequently in complaints about "Moon Druids are overpowered," but since it doesn't right now, it clearly isn't hitting that mark yet.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, Barkskin wording is very strange.

Fortunately, they have acknowledged this and seem to have taken different approach in their designs towards the '24 rules update.

I don't have the details in front of me but IIRC, they have changed it to bestow Temporary Hit Points instead, which is in my honest opinion better than what it is now. It is a second level spell, I suggest to them that it add 1 to AC and also add the HP, since Warding Bond also adds +1 to AC (and saves) and gives damage resistance. Being harder to hurt is part of what barkskin is about. A little harder to hit is part of that.

[Arkhios]

It is a second level spell, I suggest to them that it add 1 to AC and also add the HP, since Warding Bond also adds +1 to AC (and saves) and gives damage resistance. Being harder to hurt is part of what barkskin is about. A little harder to hit is part of that.

I don't know... Trees have bark and they're not particularly difficult to hit. I mean, they are stationary objects, who aren't actively trying to not get hit. Barkskin providing an extra layer of [something*] to prevent actual hit point damage, is quite fitting even without more AC.

*whether it's Hit Points, Temporary or otherwise, or something like the Abjurer's Ward, is largely irrelevant. As long as it prevents or lowers the impact on the character's hit points, it's doing what one mighy expect from a bark of a tree versus an axe.

[KorvinStarmast]

*whether it's Hit Points, Temporary or otherwise, *sigh* not getting hit (which means not getting damage done at all) prevents the need for a concentration save. Temp HP won't stop that.
Warding bond is substantially better than BarkSkin beyond the "cleric takes some damage also" feature.

[Osuniev]

I know the thread is about RAW, but I like my houserule of Barkskin not taking concentration.

Someone also offered one which gave resistance to Piercing and Bludgeoning damage, which I found made it a great situational spell.

[TyGuy]

I know the thread is about RAW, but I like my houserule of Barkskin not taking concentration.

I dropped the concentration at our table.
Now I'm considering making it level 1 and 15 AC, upcasting adding 1 AC per additional level.

[Arkhios]

*sigh* not getting hit (which means not getting damage done at all) prevents the need for a concentration save. Temp HP won't stop that.
Warding bond is substantially better than BarkSkin beyond the "cleric takes some damage also" feature.

Requiring Concentration is certainly a downside for the current Playtest Revision (simple fix: remove it), but seriously, that aside, Barkskin providing Temporary Hit Points (or straight-up damage reduction) makes narratively a lot more sense than granting a weirdly worded fixed amount of AC, that remains the same regardless if you're using a shield or not. For some inexplicable reason.

EDIT: removed something no one will miss.

[Kane0]

Something something did it myself.


2nd-level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: S
Duration: 8 hours

You touch a willing creature. Until the spell ends the target's AC cannot be less than 18 regardless of what kind of armor it is wearing. When the targeted creature is struck by a critical hit or takes fire damage this minimum AC is reduced by 1 (maximum once per turn). The spell ends when the minimum AC reaches 10 or the target's natural AC.

[Osuniev]

Wow. I like the idea of the bark geting damaged, but 8 hours, no concentration, AC 18 ??

This allows most of the party to have good AC, even if they dumped DEX, for the tiny price of a few lvl2 slots !!

[Mastikator]

I don't know... Trees have bark and they're not particularly difficult to hit. I mean, they are stationary objects, who aren't actively trying to not get hit. Barkskin providing an extra layer of [something*] to prevent actual hit point damage, is quite fitting even without more AC.

*whether it's Hit Points, Temporary or otherwise, or something like the Abjurer's Ward, is largely irrelevant. As long as it prevents or lowers the impact on the character's hit points, it's doing what one mighy expect from a bark of a tree versus an axe.

Rolling below AC doesn't always mean missing, it can also mean glancing off armor. I mean a plate mail doesn't turn you into Neo. An enemy rolls 17 against your 18 plate armor it's not because you dodged the attack but because the weapon bounced of the plate.

Objects have AC depending on their hardness. Wood has AC 15, stone 17, iron 19, mithral 21. A tree that is at least 5 meters or 15 feet should also have some kind of damage threshold, where any damage below the threshold is nullified.
If you roll below 15 or roll damage below damage threshold you don't miss the tree, you just fail to damage it.

[Arkhios]

Rolling below AC doesn't always mean missing, it can also mean glancing off armor. I mean a plate mail doesn't turn you into Neo. An enemy rolls 17 against your 18 plate armor it's not because you dodged the attack but because the weapon bounced of the plate.

Objects have AC depending on their hardness. Wood has AC 15, stone 17, iron 19, mithral 21. A tree that is at least 5 meters or 15 feet should also have some kind of damage threshold, where any damage below the threshold is nullified.
If you roll below 15 or roll damage below damage threshold you don't miss the tree, you just fail to damage it.

Again, you're missing the point. The point isn't the numeric value of AC, it's the effect itself; In other words, the point isn't how easy or hard a hypothetical "Tree" is to Hit, depending on how high or low its hypothetical AC value is. The point is how much it can take the beating. Hit Points measure that better than AC. In that vein, one of the following three is a much better way to represent a bark-like skin: Temporary Hit Points, a Ward of "extra points of whatever to reduce before hit points", or damage reduction.

[Mastikator]

Again, you're missing the point. The point isn't the numeric value of AC, it's the effect itself; In other words, the point isn't how easy or hard a hypothetical "Tree" is to Hit, depending on how high or low its hypothetical AC value is. The point is how much it can take the beating. Hit Points measure that better than AC. In that vein, one of the following three is a much better way to represent a bark-like skin: Temporary Hit Points, a Ward of "extra points of whatever to reduce before hit points", or damage reduction.

I agree, I prefer the playtest barkskin over the 2014 PHB barkskin

[KorvinStarmast]

OK, I'll fiddle with this mod next time we have a druid PC:
2d level spell, abjuration

Bark skin lasts one hour.
It adds 1 to AC
No concentration
Temp HP = PB + Caster Bonus, refresh each round per the UA
At Higher Level - additional creature per level cast (up to PB)
Pondering "does not work on anyone with metal armor on" to keep it inside the Druid themes.
Does nothing for saving throws.

Still fiddling. But that puts it on a similar footing to Warding Bond which is of the same level, and that one boosts all saving throws.

[Kane0]

Wow. I like the idea of the bark geting damaged, but 8 hours, no concentration, AC 18 ??

This allows most of the party to have good AC, even if they dumped DEX, for the tiny price of a few lvl2 slots !!

The Fire damage is the bigger deal, because a lot of the time it isnt tied to an attack but rather a save for half, and half damage will still lower your AC. Evasion counters this but thats not until higher levels for particular classes that dont often also cast Barkskin. If you invest slots into Barkskin on multiple allies someone casting fireball should definitely worry you, and Druids dont get Counterspell by default.
Alchemist fire, Firebolt, Burning hands, Scorching Rays and Ag's Scorcher are all available at the same level or lower before factoring monster abilities like breath weapons and natural fire damage on attacks.
Crits by contrast are a flat 5% on an attack against you before you before ways to reduce that, like the many ways of imposing disadvantage or less common ways of redirecting attacks entirely. Though still a concern especially if you are on the front line getting attacked a lot (and thus likely to have an AC close to 18 already).

Edit: However reading other responses I really like the damage threshold idea. That even naturally fits with upcasting.

[sithlordnergal]

Again, you're missing the point. The point isn't the numeric value of AC, it's the effect itself; In other words, the point isn't how easy or hard a hypothetical "Tree" is to Hit, depending on how high or low its hypothetical AC value is. The point is how much it can take the beating. Hit Points measure that better than AC. In that vein, one of the following three is a much better way to represent a bark-like skin: Temporary Hit Points, a Ward of "extra points of whatever to reduce before hit points", or damage reduction.

As much as I agree with you that Temp HP is a better way to represent bark, I feel like boosting AC makes it far more viable. Temp HP tends to scale poorly against the amount of damage deals. What's the point of casting Bark Skin if it's supposed to last an hour, but can't even last one round of combat? Armor of Agathys actually has this issue too. Armor of Agathys gives you 5 Temp HP for an hour. CR 1/8th creatures tend to have an average damage between 4-5, so Armor of Agathys can survive about 2 hits on average before it goes down. Not that great defensively speaking, but it makes up for that by not requiring Concentration, and dealing 5 points of Cold damage to whatever hit you.

Bark Skin, on the other hand, is a 2nd level spell that gives less Temp HP, requires Concentration, and lacks any riders that would make it worthwhile. It is worse than Armor of Agathys in every single possible way. Now, maybe they'll change Armor of Agathys too, I haven't kept up with One DnD's spell changes. but as it stands, if they want Bark Skin to be used, it needs a serious buff.

[Chronos]

So, the new version is Heroism?

[Kane0]

Yeah

10char

[Arkhios]

As much as I agree with you that Temp HP is a better way to represent bark, I feel like boosting AC makes it far more viable. Temp HP tends to scale poorly against the amount of damage deals. What's the point of casting Bark Skin if it's supposed to last an hour, but can't even last one round of combat? Armor of Agathys actually has this issue too. Armor of Agathys gives you 5 Temp HP for an hour. CR 1/8th creatures tend to have an average damage between 4-5, so Armor of Agathys can survive about 2 hits on average before it goes down. Not that great defensively speaking, but it makes up for that by not requiring Concentration, and dealing 5 points of Cold damage to whatever hit you.

Bark Skin, on the other hand, is a 2nd level spell that gives less Temp HP, requires Concentration, and lacks any riders that would make it worthwhile. It is worse than Armor of Agathys in every single possible way. Now, maybe they'll change Armor of Agathys too, I haven't kept up with One DnD's spell changes. but as it stands, if they want Bark Skin to be used, it needs a serious buff.

I think you may be giving too much credit for the designers in regards to aiming for cohesion towards the mechanics of the game. In my honest opinion, they have time and again proven that most of the time their design priorities are fantasy first, function following after.

In other words, they might not see the reason or need to make spells that are effectively within some abstract balance.

5th edition is, and has always been, much more relaxed in regards to mechanics than, for example, 3rd or 4th editions were.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Bark Skin, on the other hand, is a 2nd level spell that gives less Temp HP, requires Concentration, and lacks any riders that would make it worthwhile. It is worse than Armor of Agathys in every single possible way. Now, maybe they'll change Armor of Agathys too, I haven't kept up with One DnD's spell changes. but as it stands, if they want Bark Skin to be used, it needs a serious buff.
Can Armor of Agathy target multiple creatures let alone another target
No
Do the temporary hit points from Agathy regenerate every round?
No
The spell to compare it to would be heroism, which makes you immune to fear but gives less temp hp.