Optimizing the Quarterstaff (need help)

[Gree D. Clown]

Yo!
So, some time ago I decided I want to optimize the Quarterstaff as a weapon for 5e, this weapon always strikes me as the most tactical weapon so let's start by analyze it's various traits:

1. It does have the versatile property, while this is definitely not the best trait I felt like it's worth mentioning for completion

2. Alongside the spear it's the only 5ft reach, one handed weapon that can be used with the PAM feat

3. Staves that are arcane foci can be used as a quarterstaff

4. They deal bludgeoning damage thus can apply Crusher

5. It makes for good SAD builds thanks to shillelagh

So how do we start? Well it's easy, we have an arcane foci with a 5ft range that can apply Crusher so booming blade is a no-brainer (this will not proc the 2ndary damage as it's FORCED movement but will likely put your enemy in an uncomfortable position) and to make this even better we can add a nice spirit guardians on top of it

So right now our enemy is looking at his options:

1. Stay still and get ready for another wack (our enemy is likely reading an action but as a caster we are likely to have ranged options so it's our best case scenario)

2. Try to escape and take BB damage (here we already achieved a lot yet the outcome doesn't satisfy me... ya ain't let a coward git away do ya?!)

3. Confront us trading BB damage for a chance at breaking our concentration from SG (here we need to remember as a caster we probably don't want big angry dudes near us unless they are on our side)

So we are fine with outcome 1 but we want to address 2 and 3 and at first sight this isn't super hard, grab PAM+Sentinel, a whip and go to town (this kinda forces us into Hexblade 3 since using Str for both weapons would detract from our spell DC, there are ways to do that with Wis and Dex but it's suboptimal and slower)

My issue with that is that grabbing sentinel over Warcaster in a PAMstaff build just feels...wrong... yet Warcaster doesn't offer the kind of answers I'd want (if I missed some options PLEASE let me know)

BB would be cool but errata changed to range of self thus not eligible

Command sounds great until you realize the poor wording (actually this is good or the combo would be shamefully OP)

Hideous Laughter and Hold Person both drop concentration on your SG and offer 2 saves to the enemy (as an honorable mention Cause Fear would have value against approaching enemies yet shares the same drawbacks)

Dissonant Whispers, won't stop an escaping enemy, it does however answer approaching enemies but only if they have a base speed below 40ft (after that you're basically enforcing scenario 2 without having a proper answer to that and as I said I AM NOT OK WITH IT)

Another idea is to go hex5 for eldritch smite, as knocking the enemy prone will help us reduce their speed even further, the ruling here is...weird...but it is what it is and it still gives us an upgrade from dissonant whisper (retreating enemies needs 40ft+ while approaching ones needs 60ft+ if we account for the "free" 5ft we gift them with Crusher or a whooping 100ft if we decide to smite on our OA even if it becomes resource intense so do that only when needed)

So right now I'm looking either at

whip+staff+sentinel (c.lineage/v.human hex 3+dss X) but getting online at lvl 11 (I want to actually play the build)

Or

Staff only (whip loses meaning without sentinel or Warcaster) hex 5/dss X but still getting online at 10 (and letting fast or dashing cowards get away)

None of the above fully satisfy me so I'm asking all the wise nerds from the net:

Is there any Warcaster eligible spell I didn't consider?

Do I have faster/better options to knock an enemy prone? (Shield Master could be cool but it conflicts in action economy with quickened SG for your first turn and requires a Str check)

Are there other tactics that I didn't consider?

Earth Tremor, telekinetic, repelling blast and grasp of Hadar are all cool options but they go against the gish flavor I'm after

[animorte]

Yo!
So, some time ago I decided I want to optimize the Quarterstaff as a weapon for 5e, this weapon always strikes me as the most tactical weapon so let's start by analyze it's various traits:
I have training with a quarterstaff and agree; also, it’s the best weapon!

Eldritch Mind invocation gives you the same benefit of War Caster (except the OA spell, of course): You have advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell.

If you’re going feat-heavy, Vhuman is the obvious choice. And don’t be afraid to skip ASIs to accomplish that build sooner. If rolling stats, you’re bound to get one really high stat anyway. If standard array or point-buy, 16 is still respectable for some time. The benefits of your feats will likely outweigh the extra +1.

This bit right here…

2. Try to escape and take BB damage (here we already achieved a lot yet the outcome doesn't satisfy me... ya ain't let a coward git away do ya?!)

(after that you're basically enforcing scenario 2 without having a proper answer to that and as I said I AM NOT OK WITH IT)
…directly contradicts this bit right here:

3. Confront us trading BB damage for a chance at breaking our concentration from SG (here we need to remember as a caster we probably don't want big angry dudes near us unless they are on our side)
Do you want them near enough to benefit from all your feats and entire build purpose, or not?

Perhaps, maybe that’s just referring specifically to the rare occasion you don’t want the bad guy in your face where otherwise anything smaller and less threatening… sure, bring it on.

Grasp of Hadar invocation might be useful for a bit of this (though it does use up action economy): Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with your eldritch blast, you can move that creature in a straight line 10 feet closer to yourself.

[Waazraath]

I have the feeling you want to do too much, and therefor put things in your build which are contradictionary. Some thoughts:

- the bonus action from PAM does not work with Booming Blade (the first requiers the attack action, the second you cast a spell of which a melee attack is part). The first round bonus action of Shillelag also conflicts with PAM.
- while the combo crusher/bb is nice, by itself it is not interesting enough to justify putting a lot of resources in it. After all, you only get one attack, and even if you trigger the secondary damage from BB it still is not that impressive damage wise. A simple fighter with a quarterstaff & PAM & crusher will do (much) more damage with its extra attacks.
- quote "here we need to remember as a caster we probably don't want big angry dudes near us unless they are on our side" contradicts already with a BB and even spirit guardians build. The 2 weapon option, with a whip, only makes this worse cause your AC will suffer from not using a shield.
- spirit guardians + shillelag implies cleric (probably nature unless you want to spend resources to get shillelag), and you also mention 3 levels of hexblade - that's an awfully large investment of class levels for a single trick that does not that much damage.
- the whip builds requiers the dual wielder feat (both whip and staff are not light), you also want PAM, and Sentinel, and crusher. With Hexblade 3 / Cleric X, you'll need 12 levels of Cleric to get 3 feats (in addition to the bonus feat at level 1), making the build complete only at level 15.
- purely personal: a 1 handed quarterstaff build is a thing that should not be. It's 5e's Spiked Chain, and (thus) an abomination.

My advice would be to narrow the concept down a bit.

[MrStabby]

I think I would go with swarmkeeper ranger if Tasha's is on the table.

Take the Orzhov background from GGtR, if you can.

Firstly you get the proficiency you need and you may want to pick up a feat from your race (if so, move every feat mentioned one step earlier)
At level 2 Pick up druidic fighting style. This gets you shillelagh and thorn whip.
At level 3 you can push people around with your swarm and you actually have the wisdom to make the DC hard. Its worth noting that the subclass has some great spells like faerie fire and web that might otherwise be less good due to low wisdom.
At level 4 you can grab pole arm master.

So at level 4 when someone closes with you you can shove them away 15ft with an attack (on your turn). The ability to keep enemies away from your party is pretty useful here. You are aso doing decent damage and have a high DC for your spells.

At level 5 you get an extra attack so an extra chance to land the shove and your attack actions start to pull away from casters using the staff. The character will be doing a lot of pushing around so spike growth is likey to see some play as well (and your ability to fly above it will be awesome). Also thorn whip.

At level 8 you get another feat. Crusher or Sentinel are the obvious ones. I would actually lean towards crusher here - as a front line the extra Con can be good and that 5ft movement is going to stack quite nicely in a few levels.

At level 9 you can get spirit guardians from the Orzhov background to slow down enemies even more and is a generaly awesome spell (and command was probably pretty good also). Again... thorn whip can be handy.

At level 11 your mighty swarm will knock down enemies as well. Now advantage is abviously nice, but with crusher you are now moving them 20ft and they need half their movement to stand up. 30ft movement will need a dash to get back where they were. If you have spirit guardians up then you make their life even harder. Remember you should land this a lot due to your higher spell DC.

At level 12... you probably just want to boost stats.



Alternatively you could forgo PAM and take shield Master instead (probably swapping order with crusher). Yeah, you will proably have pretty bad strength but with expertise in athletics from deft explorer you should be able to shove as well as most. Knocking enemies down and shoving them 15ft at will is no joke.

[Slipjig]

- purely personal: a 1 handed quarterstaff build is a thing that should not be.

That's always annoyed me, too. You can HOLD a quarterstaff one-handed (or gesture dramatically with it as a spellcasting focus), but actually FIGHTING one-handed with one should not be possible.

[Psyren]

Spore Druid could be an interesting vehicle here - not only does this get you Shillelagh, but you would also get bonus damage on every attack from Symbiotic Entity, and neither ability needs your concentration. Personally though I would be more inclined to combine this with monk for an unarmed build rather than a staff build.

[paladinn]

Just my $.02.. I know Shillelagh and PAM make a quarterstaff a decent melee option. But if you're in a class where you find yourself using a quarterstaff, you're not likely to be rushing into melee. And if you can use other weapons with any sort of efficacy, you're going to use the other weapons.

Is it really worth it for a mage-type character to spend the necessary feats to optimize a quarterstaff? It would be something done in a pinch, at most.

[Psyren]

Just my $.02.. I know Shillelagh and PAM make a quarterstaff a decent melee option. But if you're in a class where you find yourself using a quarterstaff, you're not likely to be rushing into melee. And if you can use other weapons with any sort of efficacy, you're going to use the other weapons.

Is it really worth it for a mage-type character to spend the necessary feats to optimize a quarterstaff? It would be something done in a pinch, at most.

It's a gimmick to be sure, but not every build has to be the most optimal top 10th percentile. Some people like the idea of optimizing within a set of constraints, knowing and accepting that there are better options overall.

[paladinn]

It's a gimmick to be sure, but not every build has to be the most optimal top 10th percentile. Some people like the idea of optimizing within a set of constraints, knowing and accepting that there are better options overall.

It's a little funny reading this, because I'd guess 90% of people who post here are after that top 10%

[Psyren]

It's a little funny reading this, because I'd guess 90% of people who post here are after that top 10%

And 75% of statistics are made up :smallbiggrin:

My point though is that quarterstaff + shillelagh is possible to optimize, but don't be too surprised if you get a lot of "don't bother, do this weapon instead" responses.

[Waazraath]

And 75% of statistics are made up :smallbiggrin:

My point though is that quarterstaff + shillelagh is possible to optimize, but don't be too surprised if you get a lot of "don't bother, do this weapon instead" responses.

Oh, if that's what the OP wants to play and do he/she definitely should - but until I'm pretty sure that this is really the aim, I don't think it's weird if people warn that the path chosen is a lot of work for a relative meagre (powerwise) outcome. Especially if the build really gets online at a level where a lot of campaigns already have ended.

[MrStabby]

Oh, if that's what the OP wants to play and do he/she definitely should - but until I'm pretty sure that this is really the aim, I don't think it's weird if people warn that the path chosen is a lot of work for a relative meagre (powerwise) outcome. Especially if the build really gets online at a level where a lot of campaigns already have ended.

I find a more common problem is that people have optimised for poking things with a stick in a way that comes online at a time when it competes with world altering magic.

I do find a degree of generalism good though - not investing too heavily in one niche - be it fire damage, grappling or hitting tings with a stick. I think this is one of the reasons warlock dips are still popular - you can be generally good in almost any fight with eldritch blast with so little investment and the rest of your levels can be for niche things.

[animorte]

It's a gimmick to be sure, but not every build has to be the most optimal top 10th percentile. Some people like the idea of optimizing within a set of constraints, knowing and accepting that there are better options overall.
This pretty much describes me. Most of time I like to devise a theme or set certain goals and work to the best of my ability within those boundaries.

In part, this is why I dislike Wizards. Where’s the fun if I already have the answers in front of me? I mean, there’s plenty more to the game, but still.

And what’s the point in this concept? I want to play a melee damage dealer = PAM, GWM, or trash. No thanks.

[Kane0]

Hmmmm. Hexblade/Paladin, WIS-Ranger or Bladesinger/Battlesmith would be my choices. Bonus points if you can work in a Battlemaster dip for Action Surge and Maneuvers.

[Jervis]

Ok hear me out.
Minotaur
Bladesinger
High strength instead of dexterity
Crusher
Booming Blade
BA shove

[RogueJK]

Just my $.02.. I know Shillelagh and PAM make a quarterstaff a decent melee option. But if you're in a class where you find yourself using a quarterstaff, you're not likely to be rushing into melee.

A High Half Elf or MotM Kobold Nature Cleric can hang in melee thanks to their heavy armor and plethora of Cleric buff spells, and can put up respectable melee damage numbers via Shillelagh and racial Booming Blade, despite not having access to martial weapons. (This is further bolstered when combined with Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians, and is WIS-SAD to boot.)

Similarly, a Moderately Armored Tome Pact Warlock (like Ludic's very popular Celestial Generalist build) with CHA-based Shillelagh and Green Flame Blade can do solid work in melee despite not having access to martial weapons.




And if you can use other weapons with any sort of efficacy, you're going to use the other weapons.

Keep in mind that a Shillelagh Quarterstaff with the Dueling fighting style does the same base damage as a Greataxe (1d12 and 1d8+2 both average 6.5) and just a half point behind a Greatsword, while also allowing you to use a shield for +2 AC and take PAM for a BA attack. That can be pretty good incentive to use a Shillelagh staff over other weapons. Especially when going for a WIS-SAD Shillelagh build.

For example, a WIS-based Ranger with the Druidic Warrior fighting style (or a Druid dip or Magic Initiate Druid feat) will want to use a staff over other martial melee weapons. This gives you the ability to focus your ASIs on raising just one primary stat, which boosts your melee capability as well as your subclass abilities and spell DCs. This frees up ASIs for interesting feats, as opposed to trying to boost both your STR/DEX and WIS.

And there are other WIS-SAD martial builds available that utilize a Shillelagh Staff effectively despite getting access to "better" martial weapons, like a WIS-based Samurai Fighter with the Magic Initiate Druid feat. The Samurai specifically has several subclass abilities that benefit from a high WIS (like WIS save proficiency and +WIS to Persuasion checks), so it synergizes nicely with a WIS-SAD Shillelagh build.

[LostBenefit]

As others have suggested, you should narrow down your build and try not to do too much. Crusher + PAM + Sentinel (and optional Dueling Fighting Style) is a fun combination that locks down enemies while maximizing action economy. Be aware that it is feat heavy and there are better options than a quarterstaff build for min/maxing damage should that be what you're wanting.

[Gree D. Clown]

Ok hear me out.
Minotaur
Bladesinger
High strength instead of dexterity
Crusher
Booming Blade
BA shove

You Sir are an intellectual...

Also thanks to RogueJK for actually understanding the post and the question (also prompted like 3 new PC I'll eventually work on)

I'll work on the minotaur stuff for now

[paladinn]

As others have suggested, you should narrow down your build and try not to do too much. Crusher + PAM + Sentinel (and optional Dueling Fighting Style) is a fun combination that locks down enemies while maximizing action economy. Be aware that it is feat heavy and there are better options than a quarterstaff build for min/maxing damage should that be what you're wanting.

This is kind of my point. Sure you can make it work, if you devoted enough feats and really plan your entire build around it. I just haven't known many players who want to fine-tune everything to make a quarterstaff awesome. You have to devote a lot of resources to make a staff competitive; resources you could use elsewhere. It's a good weapon for a mage, but a mage isn't going to be actively seeking melee.

The only character I can think of from "fiction" that really majored with a staff to this extent was Little John from Robin Hood. I guess he could have have been considered a ranger, but game-wise, rangers and fighters have better options.

Still, I'll be interested to see what build is finally used here:) I had a sorlocaden that started with PAM and used a spear until something better became an option.

[Gree D. Clown]

Build Update #1

sooo....
the whole minotaur thing didn't pay off in the end, mainly cause it requires the attack action while we want to booming blade instead to put the enemy between a rock and a hard place with our spirit guardians, this would still work with bladesingers but they don't get spirit guardians putting us online as early as lvl 11 (since someone pointed it out PAM was never meant for the BA attack but for the Reaction OA, Spirit Weapon works better for us since we don't use GWM or Duelling)

this build broke me but i think i got the fastest way possible, also because of the original title i want to clarify that after RogueJK post i'm quite sure there are better build numberwise and eventually i'll work on those too but for now i just wanted to make the concept i started with come to life (spoiler there are 2 ways)

Why not Nature Domain 5?:

it offers a big part of the package i'm after yet it doesn't addresses the original issue of approaching or retreating enemies to double dip on the SG+BB punishment

The Nice Way:

buy your DM a pizza and ask him if you're allowed to take the strixhaven BG Lorehold Initiate, his first reaction will likely be a straight nope but you try explain you're interested in the expanded spell list and willing to ditch the Strixhaven Initiate feat, if that works the answer is as simple as Sorc 1 / Hexblade 5, start V.Human/C.Lineage with PAM, get Crusher at lvl 5 and start smiting people prone in your SG at 6 (we start Sorc for the Con proficiency, and DSS is still a valid option protecting our Con even further and giving us Spiritual Weapon yet i think Clockwork takes the win here with it's great expanded list we can make for an effective spellcaster and use quickened metamagic to fill our BA usage anyway)

if this didn't work remember your DM you tried to be cool about it and then take

The Pedantic Way:

soooo we still start with Sorc 1 (i'm a sucker for Con save and since we plan to SG in the middle of our enemies i think it's the way to go) and we will have to make peace with our gods cause at level 1 we have 8 HP and our AC is 9 but if we get to level 2 we are good to go

Race: C.Lineage - Crusher (Con)
PB: 15, 9, 13(+1), 8, 13, 14(+2) (yes the 9 Dex hurts me too but it is what it is)

1- Sorcerer - DSS is a must here and not only for Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon
2- Cleric - as many may expect we pick Nature Domain grabbing Shillelagh as our cantrip, this will be our pedantry feature (more on that later)
3/6- Sorcerer - at this point we just rushing Spirit Guardians (grab CHA for your ASI as we won't be needing PAM anymore)
7- Warlock - Undead Patreon here comes to the rescue with the crazy good Form of Dread

Tattics:

it will take us a bit to call ouselves a gish but we won't be useless in the meantime, we are great supports via Bless+Guiding Bolt while also having acces to a fight winning spell (Sleep) and 2 good damaging cantrip (Fire Bolt & Toll the Dead), this core by itself paired with Heavy Armor Proficiency at lvl 2 and Spiritual Weapon + Web at lvl 4 is enough to carry us all the way through T1, out of combat high Cha (with the right skill proficiencies) and Guidance paired with the possibility of subtle command/suggestion makes for a great PC too

The Shillelagh Pedantry:

so at lvl 5, entering T2 we are now at Sorc 4 and we learn a new cantrip, this will be Shillelagh, this is possible because of the wording from both Nature Domain Cleric and Divine Soul Sorcerer:


At 1st level, you learn one cantrip of your choice from the druid spell list. This cantrip counts as a cleric cantrip for you.

and


When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list.

so now we have a Cha based Shillelagh, we could have got that with pact of the tome warlock but it would have put us behind is Sorcerer levels and we want Spirit Guardians ASAP, we also want to remember our DM we are either always casting Shillelagh or we'll have to put an alarm going off every 60s to interrupt the session with "i cast Shillelagh" (make the alarm ringtone "never gonna give you up" for bonus points), after we get our SG we take Warlock for the concentration free fear that will be used to address approaching enemies (turn 1 Form of Dread + Spirit Guardians, turn 2 onwards Crusher Booming Blade + Spiritual Weapon, i didn't run the math but i'm pretty sure we're sporting a respectable DPR specially since the high % of proccing BB 2ndary damage)

after levlel 7

after level 7 we have many options depending on when the campaign is ending and what we want to focus moving onwards,


If we're ending by level 10: our best option is to take 2 more level in sorcerer and 1 in warlock to get us 4th level spells and slots plus the "eversoreliable" eldritch blast for our ranged option or max out Cha with DSS 8

If we end by lvl 11: we want to consider Warlock 5 (Pact of the Blade) for Eldritch Smite helping us both escaping and/or particularly wise enemies

If we end by lvl 13: DSS is a great Sorcerer sub-class yet the limited number of known spells makes it less viable as a full class in high tiers of play, so we can grab the College of Creation Bard instead giving us an "improved Spiritual Weapon" that also slows enemies helping us again to address escaping and/or particularly wise enemies or, if we have prior knowledge and want to ditch the BB we can do Dragonborn (possibly from Fizban with Dragon Fear feat) Oath of Conquest 7/Hexblade 1/DSS 5 (we delay the whole thing and can grab ouselves a Warhammer but the build is a good alternative if you don't want to prioritize the stuck in SG concept)

if we end lvl 15 or above: if you're playing a high level 1-shot, a long term campaign or simply feel aroused by the strat but not enough to want to rush it i would consider rearrange the build with this prior knowledge to be Hexblade 1/Creation Bard X and unlock Spirit Guardians via Magical Secrets at level 11 (get yourself Resilient: Con and grab a Warhammer instead of our Quarterstaff), you're delaying your progression but eventually your PC will likely perform better as a Full Casting Bard with concentraion free Animate Object


EDIT: i did run the math just for confirmation and my expectations are more than largely met, i will eventually make a post for how i calculate DPR but for now as guideline i do consider AoE spells like spirit guardians at 145% efficacy (35% of hitting 1 target, 45% of hitting 2 targets, 20% of hitting 3 targets with damage to 2ndary and 3rd target valued at 50% and 50% to halve damage on a successful Wis save) while in this particular case, because of the high leverage we can impose, i consider Booming Blade 2ndary damage to proc a 50% of the time (66% might be more accurate but i prefer to lowball for worst case scenario), doing this gives us a DPR of 30.95 at level 6 against 16.50 from the Warlock EB+AB+Hex Baseline (assuming a 9 to hit with ASI increase when appropriate), if calculating ONLY single target damage we are still sporting a respectable 26.39 DPR

EDIT #2: Fathomless Warlock works even better than Undead if we go back to PAM instead o increasing Cha as the tentacle have the same DPR of spiritual weapon while reducing enemies speed like the Creation Bard's Dancing Item (our DPR would suffer from the Cha decrease but we likely gain a reaction attack so the tradeoff should be in our favor, our enemies will need 40+ ft of movement to either approach or retreat)

[Gree D. Clown]

Build Update #2

THIS ONE WAS INSPIRED BY LUDICSAVANT'S ARCANA CLERIC BUILD, NOT MY OWN IDEA, I'M JUST A SUCKER FOR CON SAVE AND HAD TO PUT FIGHTER IN THERE

if the previous options seems to gimmicky and we want to straight up ditch any battlefield control beyond what SG naturally give us there's a 3rd option:

Fighter 2 / Arcana Domain X

we will need Arcana Domain and we'll be taking Shillelagh via Magic Initiate (Druid) cause we want Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade to be considered as Cleric cantrips for Potent Spellcasting feature

we start with V.Human/C.Lineage - Magic Initiate, Fighter 1, grab Heavy Armor, Con Proficiency and Dueling Fighting Style then move immediately to Cleric till lvl 9 (grab Crusher at 5 and Wis at 9), at 10 we get action surge and then back to Cleric all the way for Arcane Mastery (PYF i'd do wish,maze,simulacrum,contingency)

the trick here is that Potent Spellcasting let's us add our Wis modifier to BB and GFB and this will proc both on our initial damage roll and our 2ndary damage, pair this with dueling and Shillelagh increased die size gives us, at lvl 9, a DPR of 34.06 (calculating SG AoE) and 29.50 with pure single target damage against 17.7 from warlock baseline

EDIT: i blundered and calculated spirit guardians at 20 wis instead of 18 so the math here might be slightly off but i did calculate wis 18 for the booming blade+spiritual weapon and the difference for spirit guardian (since it still half on a save) is minimal

[RogueJK]

Also check out Ludic's Celestial Generalist. A Celestial Tomelock is able to do similar without having to spend a feat on Magic Initiate Druid. They get CHA-based Shillelagh as a Warlock cantrip via Pact of the Tome, GFB/BB are Warlock cantrips, and as a Celestial Warlock they can add their CHAMOD (again) to fire/radiant damage starting at Level 6. This Radiant Soul ability even comes online at the same class level (6th) as the Cleric's Potent Spellcasting.

Thus with a Shillelagh Quarterstaff Green Flame Blade, they can be doing 1d8+xd8+CHAMOD+CHAMOD, just like the Arcana Cleric with Potent Spellcasting and Shillelagh doing 1d8+xd8+WISMOD+WISMOD. (Plus potentially rider damage to a second adjacent enemy.)

But while the Arcana Cleric can do that with either Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, the Celestial Warlock can only do that with Green Flame Blade since BB is neither fire nor radiant damage.

And the Celestial Warlock doesn't get Medium Armor proficiency like the Cleric, so while you don't have to take the Magic Initiate Druid feat you generally would need to take the Moderately Armored feat instead. But if you're going to be dipping Fighter 2 anyway, that's moot.

[Gree D. Clown]

i did take a look at that build too and it is pretty cool, yet it doesn't cover what i like from the arcana (BB+SG)

[Gree D. Clown]

IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!

did some more homework, apparently JC tweeted that BB and GFB are still applicable for Warcaster after the errata (GFB only if you give up on 2nd target damage)

This makes Warcaster appealing again and all of the above posts somewhat obsolete, Imma work on this and make a new post to avoid stacking of inaccuracies and spread misinformation

[Talionis]

I think I would look at 6 levels of Bladesinger. You can use the Cantrip attacks and still using your regular attacks. You want high Dexterity anyway, you can dip out into Battlemaster or Rogue without a big problem.

[Sexyshoeless]

What this list of advantages makes me think are what ways can we take advantage of being SAD and the forced movement of Crusher?

I'd go with a Ranger. Perhaps a druid dip to get shillelagh (freeing your fighting style for something more useful like dueling or defense).
Go with Fey Wanderer or Swarmkeeper as they have features that key of wisdom. V human or Custom lineage as you will want several feats - crusher, polearm master, probably war caster in addition to maxing stats.

Slam a spike growth spell and start slapping creatures into it over and over and over again. At level 5 or 6 (depending on if you dip),you can slap 3 creatures back into the spike growth, or one deeper and deeper into it.

Your party can also get in on it.

[RogueJK]

I'd go with a Ranger. Perhaps a druid dip to get shillelagh (freeing your fighting style for something more useful like dueling or defense).

Stars Druid 2 pairs nicely with Ranger, especially Swarmkeeper.

Druid 2 gets you 2 Druid cantrips, 3 1st level Druid spells known, some higher level spell slots for upcasting (nice for stuff like upcasting Summon Beast), and either 2x hour-long CR 1/4 Wild Shapes or 2x hour-long Find Familiar summons per short rest.

Stars Druid 2 specifically gets you a third cantrip (Guidance), a fourth 1st level spell known (Guiding Bolt), and free Guiding Bolts usable Proficiency Bonus times per day, so its uses scale with character level rather than Druid level. You also get an alternate use for your 2x Wild Shapes per short rest, including boosting your Ranger's Cure Wounds/Healing World/Healing Spirit healing with Chalice Form, or Dragon Form for boosting your Concentration on something like Spike Growth or Summon Beast while you're wading into melee, or Archer Form for a BA ranged spell attack to pair with your Guiding Bolts when attacking from range.

Best of all, Guiding Bolt and Archer Form are both WIS-based, and they are both attack rolls so you can still trigger your Swarmkeeper's Gathered Swarm ability for added damage or shove effects even when attacking at range.

All in all, it really bulks out the utility and ranged capabilities of a WIS-based Shillelagh Swarmkeeper, at the cost of delaying your Ranger abilities by 2 levels.


Such a Shillelagh Stars Swarmkeeper might look something like this:
Variant Human
Druid 1 or 2 -> Swarmkeeper Ranger 5 -> Stars Druid 2 (if not taken earlier) -> Swarmkeeper X (or back to taking Druid levels whenever you're done with Ranger)
STR 8
DEX 13+1
CON 15
INT 10
WIS 15+1
CHA 10
ASIs: Crusher (16 CON) at 1, Polearm Master at Ranger 4, 18 WIS at Ranger 8, 20 WIS at Ranger 12
Cantrips: Guidance*, Mage Hand*, Shillelagh, and Thorn Whip (for another forced movement option)
Dueling Fighting Style (or Druidic Warrior if you want additional utility cantrips)