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Armads
2007-12-01, 06:41 AM
I have a few questions regarding this spell.

1. Does it affect yourself?
For example, if you're a Ur-Priest, and with ur-priest trickery, you get a caster level way above your hit dice, do you die from using Holy Word?

2. Can you negate the effect if you are deafened (or can you willingly avoid hearing it)?

Also, if you're wearing a pair of keyed spellguard rings, can you activate them to prevent yourself from dying to the Holy Word (assuming you do suffer from it)?

deadseashoals
2007-12-01, 06:51 AM
1. Yes
2. No, being deafened won't block it anymore than it would block the damage from sound lance, but being in an area of silence will block it

Awetugiw
2007-12-01, 07:47 AM
Killing yourself and everyone around you with a holy word is quite a way to go though.

Chronos
2007-12-01, 01:46 PM
2. No, being deafened won't block it anymore than it would block the damage from sound lance, but being in an area of silence will block itHoly Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm):
Any nongood creature within the area that hears the holy word suffers the following ill effects.So yes, being deaf would protect you. Of course, being the appropriate alignment for the Word you're using would protect you, too, and is probably a lot easier.

Draz74
2007-12-01, 01:55 PM
What happens if you cast Holy Word using the Silent Spell feat?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-12-01, 02:04 PM
What happens if you cast Holy Word using the Silent Spell feat?

A reasonable compromise might be that the casting is silent until the very instance before the spell takes effects.

Kaelaroth
2007-12-01, 02:59 PM
Love this spell. My DM at the time never bothered to check what spells we were preparing, and I killed an entire platoon of gargoyles with it. :smallamused:

slexlollar89
2007-12-01, 05:13 PM
Now I know hy my dad always carries ear plugs :smallsmile:

deadseashoals
2007-12-01, 08:12 PM
Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm):So yes, being deaf would protect you. Of course, being the appropriate alignment for the Word you're using would protect you, too, and is probably a lot easier.

Oh, weird, I'd assumed holy word worked the same as blasphemy, but apparently, blasphemy does not have a hearing clause.

Chronos
2007-12-01, 10:24 PM
Huh, and I'd assumed the reverse. On checking, Word of Chaos also requires hearing, but Dictum does not. A puzzling asymmetry...

Craig1f
2007-12-03, 11:36 AM
A reasonable compromise might be that the casting is silent until the very instance before the spell takes effects.

I'm not sure where I read it, but I'm pretty sure you can't use Silent Spell for a spell in which sound is integral to the spell. For example, a Bard can never make use of Silent Spell. You can't use Silent Spell to cast any Power Words, or Holy Word, or Charm Invocation in which language is necessary for the invocation (unless you have telepathy).

If you read the description of Shadowcraft Mage in Races of Stone, there is an automatic Silent Spell ability at level 2, that specifically points out that you don't get to use it if you are a caster that depends on sound for your spells, such as bards.

I'm not sure where I read it though, so it just might be my interpretation. But I don't think you can use Holy Word with Silent Spell. Now, a looser interpretation might be that you CAN use it, if you have telepathy, and you simply telepathically speak the word to everyone within the spell's range. However, I doubt this would work, since telepathy transcends language. This would be DM interpretation.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-12-03, 12:14 PM
I'm not sure where I read it, but I'm pretty sure you can't use Silent Spell for a spell in which sound is integral to the spell. For example, a Bard can never make use of Silent Spell. You can't use Silent Spell to cast any Power Words, or Holy Word, or Charm Invocation in which language is necessary for the invocation (unless you have telepathy).

No and that is why my suggested compromise involves sound.
But there is no reason why any incantation preceding the buzz-word could not still be silenced.

Draz74
2007-12-03, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure where I read it, but I'm pretty sure you can't use Silent Spell for a spell in which sound is integral to the spell. For example, a Bard can never make use of Silent Spell. You can't use Silent Spell to cast any Power Words, or Holy Word, or Charm Invocation in which language is necessary for the invocation (unless you have telepathy).

The rules say this about Bard spells specifically in a number of places. And if you look up the [Language-Dependent] tag in the rules, it says that the spell won't work if you can't be heard or otherwise understood. Thus, you are correct about Charm Person (although that one would indeed be bypassed by telepathy). The language-dependent tag is really a separate issue from the Silent Spell issue.

I just find it strange that the rules aren't similarly explicit about Power Words or Holy Word as they are about Bard spells. I mean, is it actually the word itself that has magical power, or is the word just a technique that a spellcaster uses to unleash power anyway? Fluff text supports the former, but hey ... it's only fluff text, right? :smallconfused:

Craig1f
2007-12-03, 02:02 PM
The rules say this about Bard spells specifically in a number of places. And if you look up the [Language-Dependent] tag in the rules, it says that the spell won't work if you can't be heard or otherwise understood. Thus, you are correct about Charm Person (although that one would indeed be bypassed by telepathy). The language-dependent tag is really a separate issue from the Silent Spell issue.

I just find it strange that the rules aren't similarly explicit about Power Words or Holy Word as they are about Bard spells. I mean, is it actually the word itself that has magical power, or is the word just a technique that a spellcaster uses to unleash power anyway? Fluff text supports the former, but hey ... it's only fluff text, right? :smallconfused:

Yeah, there really is no explanation about how some of these things work. A power word is a single word of power, yet it still takes up multiple pages of a spellbook (parodied in OotS as a matter of fact). The target doesn't need to hear the word. I'd also think that this would make Power Words difficult to counterspell, since the spell can be cast very quickly.

The other thing that bothers me, as that I figure that if you have Silent Spell and Still Spell, you should not provoke an AoO. As a matter of fact, you do though. Your character stands very still, and concentrates, provoking an AoO. This is what the skill trick in Complete Scoundrel is for I guess (the skill trick lets you cast spells without people knowing you're casting a spell).

I believe Holy Word is the same sort of thing as a Power Word, except it has to be audible to the targets.

Mewtarthio
2007-12-03, 02:45 PM
The other thing that bothers me, as that I figure that if you have Silent Spell and Still Spell, you should not provoke an AoO. As a matter of fact, you do though. Your character stands very still, and concentrates, provoking an AoO. This is what the skill trick in Complete Scoundrel is for I guess (the skill trick lets you cast spells without people knowing you're casting a spell).

You still have to lower your guard to concentrate on the spell (unless you cast defensively). It's basically what happens if you're in a swordfight and your opponent suddenly gets distracted by something.

tainsouvra
2007-12-03, 02:52 PM
Yeah, there really is no explanation about how some of these things work. A power word is a single word of power, yet it still takes up multiple pages of a spellbook (parodied in OotS as a matter of fact). This is a bit of an aside, but it's something that's often forgotten in D&D spellcasting that probably needs to be brought up. The strip was funny, which was the point, but bear in mind how magic in D&D works. Spellcasting is finishing off a spell that was prepared ahead of time--you're speaking the final syllables, making the final gestures, etc but most of the spell was actually begun earlier in the day with a fairly involved memorization process. The several pages in a spellbook for a Power Word spell aren't a single word followed by blank pages, but rather specific preparation instructions that give the word its power in the first place.

Craig1f
2007-12-04, 11:01 AM
You still have to lower your guard to concentrate on the spell (unless you cast defensively). It's basically what happens if you're in a swordfight and your opponent suddenly gets distracted by something.

Oh, that makes sense. I guess I hadn't thought AoO's through enough. You would see him let his guard down, but it wouldn't be like an obvious "kick me" sign.

Well, I intend to pick up the skill trick that lets you cast while pretending not to. That will be good for my upcomming beguiler.

holywhippet
2007-12-04, 08:50 PM
A reasonable compromise might be that the casting is silent until the very instance before the spell takes effects.

My thought was always that your God opens up a small portal and shouts through it or something like that.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-12-05, 02:24 AM
My thought was always that your God opens up a small portal and shouts through it or something like that.

Or perhaps delegates it to an associate to do so...

In any case it reminds me of Planescape: Torment, the CRPG. Spell effects were really nicely done. :smallwink:

Craig1f
2007-12-05, 10:48 AM
My thought was always that your God opens up a small portal and shouts through it or something like that.

I always pictured it as the player starts to glow, and speaks a holy word, which is accompanied by a choir of angels. It would be as dramatic and attention-grabbing as turning undead.