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JNAProductions
2022-11-16, 12:25 AM
Basics
There are two categories of ability scores: Physical (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution) and Mental (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). For each category, a player's highest score is Primary, middle is Secondary, and lowest is Tertiary. If two scores are equal, the player may choose which score is which. What effects they have are based on class. Additionally, each ability score gives a perk at 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19.
Attacks with weapons you are proficient in use your Primary Physical Score.
Initiative is either determined by your Primary Physical Score or Secondary Mental Score.

Barbarian
HP: 1d12+Primary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Unarmored Defense: 10+Primary Physical Score+Secondary Physical Score
Reckless Attack: Usable with any attack made with your Primary Physical Score
Primal Champion: Unchanged-to encourage brawny Barbarians. However, still useful even if Strength or Constitution are tertiary.
Intimidating Presence (Berserker): Primary Mental Score

Bard
HP: 1d8+Tertiary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Bardic Inspiration: Primary Mental Score
College Of Valor/Swords: HP now uses Secondary Physical Score. This does apply retroactively.

Cleric
HP: 1d8+Tertiary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Any Domain That Grants Martial Weapons: Increase HP to Secondary Physical Score
Any Domain That Grants Heavy Armor: Increase HP to Secondary Physical Score
Any Domain That Grants Both: Increase HP to Primary Physical Score

Druid
HP: 1d8+Tertiary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score

Fighter
HP: 1d10+Secondary Physical Score
AC: Primary Physical Score
Runes (Rune Knight): Secondary Physical Score
Psi Warrior: Primary Mental Score
Spellcasting (Eldritch Knight): Primary Mental Score
Maneuvers (Battlemaster): Primary Physical Score

Monk
HP: 1d8+Secondary Physical Score
AC: Primary Physical Score
Unarmored Defense: 10+Primary Physical Score+Primary Mental Score
Martial Arts: Primary Physical Score
Deflect Missiles: Primary Physical Score
Ki: 8+Proficiency+Primary Mental Score
Mercy: Add Primary Mental Score instead of Wisdom to Hands abilities
Astral Self: Use Primary Mental Score for Unarmed Strikes

Paladin
HP: 1d10+Secondary Physical Score
AC: Tertiary Physical Score
Divine Sense: Primary Mental Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Aura: Primary Mental Score

Ranger
HP: 1d10+Seconday Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score

Rogue
HP: 1d8+Secondary Physical Score
AC: Primary Physical Score
Sneak Attack: Can be made with any weapon you have proficiency in
Spellcasting (Arcane Trickster): Primary Mental Score

Sorcerer
HP: 1d6+Primary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Draconic Resilience (Dragon Sorcerer): AC can equal 13+Secondary Physical Score or 11+Primary Mental Score. Otherwise unchanged.

Warlock
HP: 1d8+Tertiary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Hexblade: Remove the "Charisma to weapons" from Hex Warrior
Pact Of The Blade: You may use your Primary Mental Score for attacks made with your Pact Weapon

Wizard
HP: 1d6+Tertiary Physical Score
AC: Secondary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Bladesong (Bladesinger): Add Primary Mental Score to AC

Artificer
HP: 1d8+Secondary Physical Score
AC: Primary Physical Score
Spellcasting: Primary Mental Score
Subclasses That Use Intelligence For Weapons: Use Primary Mental Score
Flash Of Genius: Primary Mental Score
Strength
11: You may increase the distance a creature is pushed with a Shove to 10'.
13: You may Shove and Grapple as if you were one size larger.
15: You deal double damage against inanimate objects.
17: You may increase the distance a creature is pushed with a Shove to 20'.
19: You may count as one size larger. (This does stack with the 13 Perk, letting a MEdium creature grapple/shove a Gargantuan creature.)

Dexterity*
11: You gain +5' to move speeds.
13: You may take an additional item interaction on each of your turns.
15: You may use Dexterity in place of Strength for jumping.
17: You may use a reaction and 5' of movement to ignore a single Attack of Opportunity.
19: You may balance on objects as narrow as one inch without having to make a check. When determining if an object can support your weight, you are counted as only one-tenth as heavy as you actually are.
Stolen almost verbatim from this post (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25636196&postcount=7) from Grod The Giant. He's awesome.

Constitution
11: You gain advantage on saves against diseases, and can finish a Long Rest with only six hours of rest.
13: You gain +1 HP per level.
15: You may use your reaction to reduce a single instance of damage by an amount equal to your Constitution modifier.
17: You gain +1 HP per level.
19*: You may, when using your 15 Perk, regain your reaction after using it.
Basically, I want this to be usable without eating your reaction... But only usable IF YOUR REACTION IS AVAILABLE. So you can be tanky personally, but it makes you a little less sticky since an AoO makes you give itup. For example.

Intelligence
11: You gain three extra language or tool proficiencies.
13: You gain one additional skill proficiency.
15: You gain Expertise in one skill or tool you already have proficiency in.
17: You can Help as a reaction to someone making a check or attack.
19: When you Help someone, they can replace their Ability Score Modifier with your Intelligence Modifier.

Wisdom
11: You gain +1 to any one save of your choice.
13: You add one point of HP to all healing you receive.
15: You no longer suffer disadvantage on Perception checks from dim light.
17: You gain advantage on Initiative rolls.
19: You gain Truesight 10'.

Charisma
11:
13: You gain advantage on saves against becoming Charmed or Frightened.
15: You can use your reaction to try and Charm someone who targets you for an attack. On a failed Wisdom save (DC of 8+your proficiency+your Charisma modifier) they are Charmed by you until the end of their turn.
17:
19:

Semi WIP. Biggest thing I want checked is the Perks, especially ideas on the missing ones.

animorte
2022-11-16, 01:39 AM
I absolutely love the freedom to choose which ability score you want to focus on. In doing so, you can see the potential features to gain based on choices. Do I still prioritize this stat knowing that i may prefer the benefits of another? Let the stat choice determine goals.

Your concept of Primary/Secondary/Tertiary is really cool, but I think I see a major flaw: If somebody dumps just one physical stat, their +HP mod goes negative, which is fine, but if that’s the case I would likely standardize base HP heavily across classes and actually allow the P/S/T mod more power to determine HP gain.

Worlds Without Number (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/348809) has a standard base by class for HP per level:
Warrior = 1d6+2 (level 2 = 2d6+4, etc.)
Expert = 1d6 (level 2 = 2d6, etc.)
Mage = 1d6-1 (level 2 = 2d6-2, etc.)

Next to AC, I would make sure to include 10 + p/s/t ability score. Just for clarity.

Don’t really have notes on any of the classes specifically, but i really like what you’ve done with it.
This is essentially a backwards Half-feat. Bump the ASI and acquire a small perk to it as opposed to grabbing a feat then getting a complimentary +1. With this, feats strictly as a variant option (or extremely rare) could be a real thing. So i might recommend adjusting it to include some other relevant feats, as you have shown in a couple areas already. Overall, nicely done.

Concerning Dexterity 19, I’ve seen weight calculated for lifting something or somebody, excessive encumbrance, and tenser’s floating disk. Not sure how useful it’s going to be.

A note on Constitution 19, is it intended to reduce multiple instances of damage? Say a tier 3 Fighter attacks you 6 times (action surge) then his tier 3 Fighter buddy also attacks 6 times. Provided they all hit, you have 13 reactions (12 used and another ready).
- Otherwise I would do this: You may, when using your 15 Perk, regain your reaction once after using it.

Not particularly fond of Intelligence giving the Wizards even more versatility, but i wouldn’t know where to begin so if others like it, by all means. Still aligns very well with exactly what the 3.5e Rogue and skills did though.

Wisdom 11 could add the Wis bonus to initiative or just grant proficiency in one Wis skill.

Maybe a Charisma feature could attempt to intimidate (fear) an enemy when you hit them with an attack.
Nice shout out to Grod_The_Giant, and I agree with it.

JNAProductions
2022-11-16, 06:25 PM
It’s only Full Casters that get Tertiary to HP.
Everyone else gets Secondary or Primary.

And that was intentional-not a MASSIVE nerf to Full Casters, but one all the same.

Theodoxus
2022-11-16, 06:41 PM
Not particularly fond of Intelligence giving the Wizards even more versatility, but i wouldn’t know where to begin so if others like it, by all means. Still aligns very well with exactly what the 3.5e Rogue and skills did though.


Wizards aren't necessarily Int casters though. Or anyone could be an Int caster, so I'm not sure what the issue is...

animorte
2022-11-16, 07:28 PM
It’s only Full Casters that get Tertiary to HP.
Everyone else gets Secondary or Primary.

And that was intentional-not a MASSIVE nerf to Full Casters, but one all the same.
Oh yeah, I get that and agree with it. Just that stacking on top of the already small HD seemed a bit excessive. But if they put enough in Constitution, it will make up for any negative mods, and I wouldn’t ever expect there to be (on average) more than one -1. And casters are already stronger anyway, so sure. At this point, I’m just talking myself in circles. Feel free to move along.


Wizards aren't necessarily Int casters though. Or anyone could be an Int caster, so I'm not sure what the issue is...
Technically you’re correct because, with this model, the Wizard can use any mental stat as their primary, just like any other caster. It was one of the first things I noted and yet my anti-Wizard bias caused me to forget that concept toward the end of my analysis. :smalltongue:

Kane0
2022-11-17, 03:07 AM
Massive boost to flexibility across the board, but at the same time a noticeable boost to everyone no matter what your stat spread. I do like that straight ASIs give you stuff though, so perhaps hoist with my own petard there.

Amechra
2022-11-17, 09:20 AM
Legitimate question: under these rules, is the Monk still supposed to be primarily Dexterity based? Because Martial Arts and Deflect Missiles are still Dex-based.

JNAProductions
2022-11-17, 12:10 PM
Legitimate question: under these rules, is the Monk still supposed to be primarily Dexterity based? Because Martial Arts and Deflect Missiles are still Dex-based.

Ah, whoops! That was not intended-merely an oversight on my part.

Amechra
2022-11-17, 07:53 PM
Follow-up question: how does this all work with multiclassing? If I'm playing a Sorcerer and I dip into Fighter, do I use my highest physical ability score for my HP for every level or just my Fighter levels?

JNAProductions
2022-11-17, 07:55 PM
Follow-up question: how does this all work with multiclassing? If I'm playing a Sorcerer and I dip into Fighter, do I use my highest physical ability score for my HP for every level or just my Fighter levels?

Just your Fighter levels. Also, the only class that gets Primary to HP is Barbarian-everyone else is Secondary or Tertiary.

OldTrees1
2022-11-20, 02:02 PM
Wow. That is a neat idea.

The stats now get spread around. The focus on ordering gives choices between flat (14/14/14) vis skewed (16/14/10). By making it generic ordering you helped justify weird things like Str to HP or Cha to Initiative. There will still be some weird interactions when making a character. Some of the interactions might not fit a characterization of a specific character but are forced as a symptom of matching the more character relevant characterizations. (In those cases I suggest the player refluff it as a static bonus that is coincidentally equal to the ability modifer rather than actually the ability modifier).

Also the qualitative improvements at odd values improve the integration of those tertiary stats and fills in the gaps on the primary/secondary.