Making a combat bard

[Cuddly]

Any suggestions on making a bard that's capable of dealing and taking hits? No sublime chord or ToB, please.

[MrNexx]

Any suggestions on making a bard that's capable of dealing and taking hits? No sublime chord or ToB, please.

Depends on what you're looking for. There are PrCs like the War Chanter (I know its in Races of Faerun) who are "combat bards". You might also look into the Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) variant, which will give you Bull's Strength.

My suggestion would be to start with a good Str and Con; Charisma is needed, but you don't need it very high (no more than 14, I would say). Your performance should be something purely vocal... chanting is great. That way, you can fight and sing at the same time.

When you get into a fight, you should be singing or chanting. I've always liked throwing Improved Unarmed Strike on such a character... throwing a punch or kick into an otherwise normal combat... though that's my Palladium showing through (since unarmed combat is often effective).

That's what's coming to my very fragmented mind right now.

[Armads]

Dragonfire Inspiration lets you add +xd6 to your melee attacks in energy damage, where x is your inspire courage bonus. Wield a crystal echoblade (add half bard level as bonus sonic damage, MIC). Try to buff your inspire courage bonus (or rather, dragonfire inspiration) with stuff like Words of Creation, Song of the Heart, and other stuff. The set in MIC which has the badge of valor and other stuff are also worth looking into.

To be able to survive hits, you should cast Mirror Image to get good miss chance. Also, one of the items in the abovementioned set costs 8k and gives +50 temporary hp that don't stack 1/day when you inspire greatness.

[Tyrmatt]

There were kits in BG2 designed for battle bardery
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/kits.php#1 Has some stuff you can build on.

[Crow]

Arcane Strike lets you burn a spell slot for 1d4 extra points of damage per level of slot burned for all attacks that round.

[Ganurath]

Arcane Strike lets you burn a spell slot for 1d4 extra points of damage per level of slot burned for all attacks that round.It also adds the spell's level as a bonus on attacks. A must for the combat oriented bard, as is the War Chanter PrC. Luckily, both are in Complete Warrior, whereas the early levels allow one to enjoy the flavorful songblade.

[nerulean]

Take a peek here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64077), here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64211) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64040). They've got some ToB stuff and Sublime Chord gets a fair few mentions, but the threads are fairly good.

[assassin8]

what book is dragonfire inspiration in?

[icthius]

Arcane Strike lets you burn a spell slot for 1d4 extra points of damage per level of slot burned for all attacks that round.

I don't have the book in front of me, but doesn't it last a number of rounds equal to the slot level?

[Townopolis]

the PHB2 has a feat called Battle Dancer that gives a +2 to attack and damage while inspiring courage and taking at least a 5' step every turn.

Frostburn has Snowflake Wardance. Spend 1 use of bardic music, add your CHA mod to damage with a 1 handed slashing weapon for rounds equal to your CHA mod. Must have offhand empty (I think, I don't have the book handy).

Get a crystal Echoblade from the MIC, hawkfeather armor might be a good buy as well.

For feats, I'd recommend (assuming human).

1) Extra Music (Carcane?)
1) Melodic Casting (Cmage)
3) Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn)
6) Arcane Strike (Carcane)
9) Sound of Silence (Cscoundrel)
12) Medium armor proficiency
15) Battle Caster (Carcane)
18) ??? (Improved Crit:Longsword? Words of Creation? Kiai shout?)

This is a 'burn hard and fast' build. It allows you to easily burn through bardic music and spell slots during a battle, high power but low endurance. Taking Medium armor proficiency at 12th and having to wait until 15th to really get good use of it can be hard, but taking them earlier bumps around other, arguably more important, feats.

For Spells, I like both ghostly visage and mirror image. Haste is also and obvious choice, as is Eagle's Splendor if you have Snowflake Wardance. With Melodic Casting, blasting with sound burst and the like can make a good supplement to your melee.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Any suggestions on making a bard that's capable of dealing and taking hits? No sublime chord or ToB, please.

Bardadin. Bard/Paladin with the FR multiclass feat, then rack up the Cha to X bonuses.

[Cuddly]

Bardadin. Bard/Paladin with the FR multiclass feat, then rack up the Cha to X bonuses.

FR? Forgotten Realms?

[OneWinged4ngel]

FR? Forgotten Realms?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512

Stickies are there for a reason! :smallannoyed:

[Signmaker]

DR Magazine's got an issue including Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows for 12k, which adds fire damage on melee and touch attacks equal to your CHA bonus. More fun for a fluff-monk, but bards works well with it to. Something along the lines of "MY HEART FLAMES WITH DETERMINATION!!!" animu.

[Triaxx]

Combat Bard, eh? Nothing quite like the first one. Remember you have a spell list as well as bard song.

Grease is great, you can get them prone then make with the stabbity. Remove Fear and Expeditious Retreat bring you in close. Blur and Cat's Grace make you more efficient at killing opponent's while making you harder to hit, especially with Weapon Finesse. Hold Person stops them in their tracks for greater ease of attacking. Mirror Image and Rage are great for close encounters. Combat Bards are as defensive as they are offensive, because they are quite frankly, very squishy.

And if you don't mind homebrew, for your weapons:

Singing Blade
Cost: 5,000gp, +1 blade or better, Bard Song.
Effect: A Singing Blade may be crafted in one of three ways. It may be crafted with beneficial bard song, defensive bard song, or offensive bard song.

Beneficial Bard song causes the blade to perform as it is swung, increasing the luck and attack rolls of it's wielder by +1, and increasing their will save vs. charm type spells by two.

Defensive Bard song causes the blade to perform as long as it is drawn, usually softly and in the background, but increasing in volume and tempo as enemies approach. However, the wielder must succeed on a listen check to detect the change in the song.

Offensive Bard song is often described as nails on a chalk board. It serves to distract opponents, and anyone with in 10' of the wielder must make a concentration check when attempting to attack or cast spells. Movement actions are unaffected. The wielder is also immune to the swords effects.

Singing blades can be dual wielded, but only the Main hand weapon gives it's bonuses. Offensive Blades may force an additional concentration check to counteract countersong, at the DM's discretion. Otherwise countersong applies as normal.

[Armads]

Dragonfire Inspiration's from Dragon Magic.

[Feralgeist]

if it's allowed, fell caller from iron kingdoms.

gets enemy debuffs, sonic attacks and whatnot. pretty good class

[Talic]

Seeker of the song?

LOL, seriously, though, focus on debuff and harassment. You won't go toe-to-toe with a raging barb, but so play to your strengths. Hit other people in their weak spot. You've got a variety of spells that do different things, you've got light armor, and you've got dirty tricks. Full run away for a round or two, when they give chase, an abrupt stop and a grease under them and whoosh.

Even so, if you're going for that kinda character, perhaps Dervish or Swashbuckler might fit a light graceful theme more whilst keeping better mechanics?

[Cuddly]

Seeker of the song?

LOL, seriously, though, focus on debuff and harassment. You won't go toe-to-toe with a raging barb, but so play to your strengths. Hit other people in their weak spot. You've got a variety of spells that do different things, you've got light armor, and you've got dirty tricks. Full run away for a round or two, when they give chase, an abrupt stop and a grease under them and whoosh.

Even so, if you're going for that kinda character, perhaps Dervish or Swashbuckler might fit a light graceful theme more whilst keeping better mechanics?

It's a 3 man party without an effective meatshield, as the fighter died last session. The player's game style would be better suited to playing a bard, and the party really needs the skill points. So I was wondering if you guys knew of a way to get a bard about on par with a fighter. The party no longer has a reliable way of dishing out damage sans fighter.

I'll have to check out the bard/pal multiclass. I take it you go paladin 2/bard 3/PrC10? Or something similar....

What would you guys say to taking (feat) rogue for first level to get trap finding, and two more skills to pump for synergy bonuses?

Also, suggestions on how the bard should best use his spells in combination with the party cleric and wizard? The cleric was spec'd to buff the fighter, and the wizard uses mostly necro&enchantment spells to shut down the enemy, though will toss out a haste instead of a sleep spell. Should the bard focus on buffing spells, the wizard on offense, and the cleric switch to buffs that complement the bard's?

[nerulean]

Hmm. Is there any way the cleric can step into the role of meatshield while the bard buffs and provides a flank/backup damage?

[Cuddly]

Hmm. Is there any way the cleric can step into the role of meatshield while the bard buffs and provides a flank/backup damage?

Good question. With 8 strength, the cleric won't want to, but I could try to convince him otherwise. He's actually pretty terrible at battle. His character was expressly designed to buff the party and draw aggro, yet instead he flies around in fullplate, often too far away or too slowly to buff the fighter. Which is partly why the fighter's dead.

I can see the bard playing support to a divine power cleric. The only problem will be BOTH of their relative inability to do damage (no power attack with 8 str).

[nerulean]

We're currently playing a three person party with a fighter, a non-combat bard and an enchantment specialist wizard, and it works pretty well. The fighter soaks damage while the two casters spam save or lose spells. Damage output is often only a matter of how many rounds it takes to coup de grace the opponents rendered helpless by team enchanter. It does kind of depend on not having too many encounters per day because it isn't a tactic with endless durability, but generally, if your wizard isn't dead, he's winning.

[goat]

Well, if you're not at a high level, a few hired heavies could act as your meat-shields.

[Triaxx]

Try a Bardbarian. Alternate between bard and barbarian levels. Barbarian net's attacks and HP, Bard nets powerful spells, and the ability to cut the opponent apart. High STR, and High DEX, plus weapon focus and weapon finesse. High Dex counters the penalty you take from Power Attack.

Any house rules that might influence which comes first?