Bard inspire - do I miss something?

[Zombimode]

First disclaimer: my current contact with D&D 5e comes from playing Solasta.
But as far as I know Solasta implements the 5e rules pretty much as-is.

So, to my question: the Inspire ability of bards:
- targest one creature
- gives the target a floating dX to be added to any d20 roll within a certain timeframe (single use)
- has a sharply limited per day count of something like Proficiency + Cha

...uh, do I miss something here?
This seems extraordinarily limited.

But maybe I have to recalibrate my expectation regarding the Bard class. In 3e and PF Inspire Courage is (for me) the main draw of the Bard. Sure, the spellcasting is great, and other class features are also nice. But Inspire Courage is where the money is.
But ok, maybe the 5e Bard has another focus.

So, I guess the real question would be: "What is selling the Bard class in 5e?" :smallsmile:

[Amnestic]

Bards in 3.5/PF capped out at 6th level spells.
Bards in 5e get up to 9ths, same as other full casters. Their power budget for inspiring stuff is adjusted accordingly. (Personally I don't like this as a design choice, but it is what it is)

At 5th level in 5e they also get Font of Inspiration, which gives them their bardic inspiration back on a short or long rest, instead of just long rest, so it's not quite as limited as at first glance.

[MoiMagnus]

First disclaimer: my current contact with D&D 5e comes from playing Solasta.
But as far as I know Solasta implements the 5e rules pretty much as-is.

So, to my question: the Inspire ability of bards:
- targest one creature
- gives the target a floating dX to be added to any d20 roll within a certain timeframe (single use)
- has a sharply limited per day count of something like Proficiency + Cha

...uh, do I miss something here?
This seems extraordinarily limited.

But maybe I have to recalibrate my expectation regarding the Bard class. In 3e and PF Inspire Courage is (for me) the main draw of the Bard. Sure, the spellcasting is great, and other class features are also nice. But Inspire Courage is where the money is.
But ok, maybe the 5e Bard has another focus.

So, I guess the real question would be: "What is selling the Bard class in 5e?" :smallsmile:

The Bard in 5e is a full spellcaster. They're essentially as good as a Sorcerer spell-wise (though their spell list is more oriented toward control and support... outside of magical secret which allows you to take all the class-exclusive spells).

Additionally, 5e follows the "Bounded Accuracy" principle, which mean that bonuses are very rare and most of them are replaced by "advantage", which doesn't stack with itself. The Bard is one of the few class that can give bonuses to checks that stacks with advantages. Similarly, they're one of the few class that get access to Expertise. Depending on your GM style with skill checks, this is extremely relevant or completely useless.

[Zombimode]

Bards in 3.5/PF capped out at 6th level spells.
Bards in 5e get up to 9ths, same as other full casters. Their power budget for inspiring stuff is adjusted accordingly. (Personally I don't like this as a design choice, but it is what it is)

Ah, good to know :smallsmile:
Doesn't affect Solasta (capping at level 12), but I recognize this as a significant change.


At 5th level in 5e they also get Font of Inspiration, which gives them their bardic inspiration back on a short or long rest, instead of just long rest, so it's not quite as limited as at first glance.

Ok, that does help. Still not nearly on the level of 3e/PF Inspire Courage, but with that I can see using it every combat.

[Burley]

It's also a bonus action, meaning the Bard can still cast a spell to further buff their allies. Plus, some of the subclasses modify the Inspiration dice. College of Creation especially can add some helpful effects depending on the type of roll the inspiration was used on.

Its funny how many times I've buffed the party with Haste or Bless or that spell that gives regenerating Temp HP, and it's the Bard's 1d6 to a skill check that gets people clappin' and back-pattin'.

[Mastikator]

First disclaimer: my current contact with D&D 5e comes from playing Solasta.
But as far as I know Solasta implements the 5e rules pretty much as-is.

So, to my question: the Inspire ability of bards:
- targest one creature
- gives the target a floating dX to be added to any d20 roll within a certain timeframe (single use)
- has a sharply limited per day count of something like Proficiency + Cha

...uh, do I miss something here?
This seems extraordinarily limited.

But maybe I have to recalibrate my expectation regarding the Bard class. In 3e and PF Inspire Courage is (for me) the main draw of the Bard. Sure, the spellcasting is great, and other class features are also nice. But Inspire Courage is where the money is.
But ok, maybe the 5e Bard has another focus.

So, I guess the real question would be: "What is selling the Bard class in 5e?" :smallsmile:
It's cha mod per day actually. By level 5 it becomes cha mod / short rest, so 2x or 3x cha mod. However, yes it is limited.

Bards are also full casters and have access to a good spell list, they also gain magical secrets which lets them crib spells from other spell caster's lists. The subclasses have a big effect on the bard, swords and valor add martial ability, lore adds skills and extra magic and offensive uses of bardic inspiration, and so on.

Bards also have expertise, they're really good at 2 skills.

All in all they are extremely versatile and can wear many hats.

[Segev]

Bardic Inspiration dice also are amazingly good in bounded accuracy.

[Psyren]

Ah, good to know :smallsmile:
Doesn't affect Solasta (capping at level 12), but I recognize this as a significant change.

It affects Bards at every level. If Bards were half-casters, a 12th-level one would cap out at 3rd-level spells, but being full casters they go up to 6ths. This is especially potent in 5e due to things like upcasting, magical secrets, and lack of bonus spell slots. Even in 3.5/PF, a 12th-level bard would max out at 4ths.


Bardic Inspiration dice also are amazingly good in bounded accuracy.

This is important too. A +2.5 bonus in 5e is significant, and it eventually goes up to +5.5 at 12th level which is massive.

[Chronos]

Bards certainly aren't weak in 5e (no full-caster is), but the changes made them feel much less like bards. I'd have preferred something more like 3rd, with less spellcasting, but leaning much more heavily into the inspiration, and also keeping them associated in at least some way with performing.

[Segev]

Bards certainly aren't weak in 5e (no full-caster is), but the changes made them feel much less like bards. I'd have preferred something more like 3rd, with less spellcasting, but leaning much more heavily into the inspiration, and also keeping them associated in at least some way with performing.

While I sympathize, there IS the Eloquence Bard, which I think may at least give you more of what you want with "inspiring."

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'm currently playing a Bard, and I tend to agree Inspiration can be somewhat hit and miss. It gets a lot better if you find a way to know there's a big battle coming and get them out ahead of time. Then you party gets full use usually and you have any other BAs available. Otherwise, you're rolling initiative, only able to give out 1/ round maybe not to the character who will need it most, and monopolizing your BA. In subsequent rounds is it even worth giving one out if the fight is drawing to a close and the player may not end up needing it. Sometimes I've guessed, given a few out and crisis is averted without them being used.

However, here are 2 solid positives.
a) It's a BA; most classes are taking feats to get useful BAs. You don't have to.
b) Any time characters are rolling dice after (initial) results have been determined that's a powerful and efficient ability. It's like applying Shield after you've been hit or Divine Smite after you've hit; that's an efficient use of an ability.

Overall they're good in terms of action economy and great when they work. Sometimes getting them out at the right time can be frustrating, and I think that part can be very table, adventure, and party dependent.

[Psyren]

Bards certainly aren't weak in 5e (no full-caster is), but the changes made them feel much less like bards. I'd have preferred something more like 3rd, with less spellcasting, but leaning much more heavily into the inspiration, and also keeping them associated in at least some way with performing.

Not sure if you're looking for a solution here, but you can probably get the feel of the 3e bard by multiclassing 5e bard with Expert to dilute its casting.