Rules Question

[FabulousFizban]

Say I multiclass, can my Holy Symbol and my Arcane Focus be the same object?

[PhoenixPhyre]

Say I multiclass, can my Holy Symbol and my Arcane Focus be the same object?

Generally not--there are lists of what counts as each one and I don't think they have any overlap.

[RogueJK]

RAW, no. There's really no overlap between the items allowed for a holy symbol (amulet, emblem, or reliquary) and those allowed for an arcane focus (staff, wand, orb, rod, or crystal).

But a holy symbol can be emblazoned on a shield. So you could wield your holy symbol (shield) in one hand and an arcane focus in the other.


And your DM might be willing to make an exception. Especially if, for example, you're a cleric of the God of Arcane Magic.

[sithlordnergal]

You need separate foci for Arcane and Divine spells. The only exception is if the spell you're casting appears on both spell lists, and you're of the level to cast it from both spell lists. For example, Protection from Evil and Good is on the Cleric and Wizard spell list. You could use your Divine Focus to cast it, and just claim you were using the Cleric version of the spell.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Well an arcane focus has to be specially made and held in the hand, the holy symbol just needs to be presented. So the holy symbol could be painted onto the arcane focus in theory, it could also dangle next to it like a keychain. It could be sewn into your robes, on a shield. Hell you could wear it on your hat.
Even if it can't be the same object, its not hard to present both at the same time.

[Mastikator]

Holy symbols can appear on specific types of items, none of them normal arcane focuses. Artificer can use their infused items as arcane focus and some of those could be candidates for holy symbols too. But nothing for any other kind of arcane casters.

[RogueJK]

You need separate foci for Arcane and Divine spells. The only exception is if the spell you're casting appears on both spell lists, and you're of the level to cast it from both spell lists. For example, Protection from Evil and Good is on the Cleric and Wizard spell list. You could use your Divine Focus to cast it, and just claim you were using the Cleric version of the spell.

Not quite. You'd also need to have it known/prepared for that specific spellcasting class.

So yes, Protection from Good/Evil is on both lists, but you can only cast it as a Cleric spell if you have it prepared that day in your Cleric Spells Prepared, and you can only cast it as a Wizard spell if you have it prepared that day as a Wizard Spell Prepared.

You can't just pick which version you're going to cast on the fly simply because you're a multiclass Cleric/Wizard and it's on both spell lists.


Similarly, Faerie Fire is on both the Druid and Bard spell lists. But you have to prepare it as a Druid Spell Prepared to cast it as a Druid, and you'd have to have taken it as a Bard Spell Known to cast it as a Bard. You can't simply pick between the two versions purely because you're a multiclass Druid/Bard.

[sithlordnergal]

Not quite. You'd also need to have it known/prepared for that specific spellcasting class.

So yes, Protection from Good/Evil is on both lists, but you can only cast it as a Cleric spell if you have it prepared that day in your Cleric Spells Prepared, and you can only cast it as a Wizard spell if you have it prepared that day as a Wizard Spell Prepared.

You can't just pick which version you're going to cast on the fly simply because you're a multiclass Cleric/Wizard and it's on both spell lists.

Yeah, that's true too. You need to prepare the spell with the proper class in order to cast it from that class. Though lets be honest, I'm willing to bet most players would just say "I prepped it as a Cleric" to bypass this

[Bobthewizard]

I think you could make an amulet with a crystal and have it serve as both. Or you could attach an amulet to the top of a staff or rod.

[Reach Weapon]

While there are plenty of appeals to "common sense" that you could physically construct something that meets the descriptions of both arcane and divine foci, there are also fair rationales for such an object not actually working.

[tiornys]

You can't use the same item as a focus for both classes, but you sure can use the same spell component pouch instead.

[Chronos]

A "reliquary" is just anything that has a bit of a holy figure's remains embedded in it. No reason you couldn't incorporate that into a wand or staff or whatever. And an "emblem" is even broader: I've seen plenty of staves with a holy emblem on them.

[diplomancer]

There are a few magic items that help with that, like Dragon-Touched focus. It's also quite powerful apart from that, so if you can quest for one (or are not starting at level1 and DM gives a choice of magic items), get it

[Monster Manuel]

Even if it can't be the same object, its not hard to present both at the same time.

I think that's the key point, here. The holy symbol can be held, emblazoned on a shield, or the caster can "wear it visibly", according to the item description. There's a LOT of reasonable interpretations of "wear it visibly" that make the question kind of a moot point. The cleric doesn't have to hold the item, just wear it, so their hand is free to do other things (like swing a mace while wearing a shield). The intention is that the holy symbol is meant to be hands-free.

If a cleric/wizard etches their holy symbol into their orb, or attaches a reliquary to the end of their staff, is that mechanically any different than wearing a necklace with the holy symbol around their neck while carrying the orb or staff in their hand? No, not really. A strict interpretation of the rules says these are different things, but effectively it doesn't matter. And there's already precedent, as tiornys pointed out, with the spell component pouch being class-agnostic.

Technically speaking, no, these are different objects. In practice, I say go for it.

[FabulousFizban]

A "reliquary" is just anything that has a bit of a holy figure's remains embedded in it. No reason you couldn't incorporate that into a wand or staff or whatever. And an "emblem" is even broader: I've seen plenty of staves with a holy emblem on them.

My wand was carved from the true cross!

[da newt]

"My wand was carved from the true cross!"
- aka I defiled the revered great holy symbol by hacking a bit of it off to use for my own arcane practices ...

This seems like something that would quickly get you placed on that god's naughty list (not to mention make an enemy of all of their followers).

[Chronos]

Heck, in most D&D worlds, there are gods of magic. There probably are some deities for whom a wand is their holy symbol.

[Psyren]

1) Short answer no (see the rule on PHB 164.)

2) Longer answer: There is an official feat in the new Dragonlance book (Divinely Favored) that lets you pick an ability score, and your holy symbol becomes usable as a spell focus for any spell you cast that uses that ability score. So a wizard with this feat for example could use a holy symbol to cast any wizard spell that uses Intelligence for its spell attack roll or whose saving throw is based on your Intelligence modifier.

[Chronos]

That's awfully weak, for a feat. I mean, you can already use a spell component pouch for spells from any class; using a holy symbol or focus instead is mostly just flavor. I suppose that it lets non-clerics use things like shield holy symbols, to free up a hand, but that's pretty niche, especially since most non-holy-symbol casters aren't even proficient with shields.

[stoutstien]

Artificer is the only ones that technically get the same object to count as both of if recall correctly though it's mostly redundant because you can wear the holy symbol.

Is there a list of actions that require you to psychically interact with the symbol?

[Psyren]

That's awfully weak, for a feat. I mean, you can already use a spell component pouch for spells from any class; using a holy symbol or focus instead is mostly just flavor. I suppose that it lets non-clerics use things like shield holy symbols, to free up a hand, but that's pretty niche, especially since most non-holy-symbol casters aren't even proficient with shields.

That's not all the feat does. It's sort of Magic Initiate + that, with some minor restrictions, and the ability to use whatever ability score you want + your own spell slots on the spells it gives you. The focus thing is just a unique bonus.


Artificer is the only ones that technically get the same object to count as both of if recall correctly though it's mostly redundant because you can wear the holy symbol.

Is there a list of actions that require you to psychically interact with the symbol?

You can wear a holy symbol, but then you'll need a hand free for somatic components. The benefit to mounting the holy symbol on your shield instead is that that hand doesn't need to be free anymore. So for a sword and board paladin for example, they'll usually want the holy symbol on the shield instead of around their neck.