Greywander
2022-12-06, 07:29 PM
This is an idea that just came to me, and I don't have it properly fleshed out. I'm not sure if I'd want to use this in an original system or try to hack it into D&D 5e, but I suppose let's consider the idea in terms of 5e. Thinking about it, it does handily solve an earlier problem (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?649585-Alternatives-to-Extra-Attack-as-a-form-of-character-advancement) I had with a big overhaul of 5e I was working on.
Here's the basic idea: Combat arts are bonuses you can add on top of an attack. You start off being able to apply one combat art to each attack, and as you level up in martial classes you not only learn additional combat arts, but you can also apply more combat arts to a single attack.
Examples of combat arts could be things like the rogue's Sneak Attack, the paladin's Divine Smite, or the monk's Stunning Strike, and most Battle Master maneuvers could probably be adapted as well. You might get specific combat arts from your class while others are free picks (e.g. all rogues get Sneak Attack), or maybe all combat arts are free picks (e.g. as a rogue you can choose not to get Sneak Attack), or maybe each class has a list of combat arts they have access to (e.g. Sneak Attack is only on the rogue list).
Now, as stated above, if combat arts are "per attack", then obviously Extra Attack should figure into the progression. So something like 1 art per attack at 1st level, Extra Attack at 5th level, 2 arts per attack at 11th level, and 3 arts per attack at 17th level. But there's a bit of a wrinkle there in that rogues don't get Extra Attack. This makes me think that Extra Attack should itself be a combat art. This then requires a revised description of how combat arts work:
You can apply a certain number of combat arts per Attack action. If one of those combat arts is Extra Attack, then you can split your other combat arts for that Attack action between the two attacks, but you can't apply the same combat art to both attacks. The number of combat arts known, as well as the number of combat arts you can use per Attack action, scales with your martial level. Half caster classes are also half martial classes. Combat arts per Attack action is one at 1st martial level, two at 5th martial level, three at 11th martial level, and four at 17th martial level.
This sort of a system would have several interesting benefits:
1. It allows martials to spam the Attack action and do something more interesting than just spamming the Attack action. One could say that casters "just spam the Cast a Spell action", but they have to actually choose which spell to cast, which is a significant decision. The choice of which combat arts to use would be a similarly impactful change to the Attack action.
2. It creates a martial analogue to caster levels. It helps martials scale into higher levels, and creates an incentive to stick with martial classes instead of splitting with a caster class. It also allows for progression saving between martial classes, similar to how caster multiclasses can save their spell slot progression.
3. It creates more points of customization for martials. Casters have a lot of freedom to personalize through their spell picks, but a lot of martials are rather limited when it comes to customization. Now they have some more options.
Edit: 4. (Can't believe I forgot this one) By limiting the number of combat arts per Attack action, we can prevent players from stacking too many bonuses together. This isn't as big of a deal in vanilla, but would be a pretty drastic change for something like a gestalt character, who could stack the bonuses from both classes. It helps moderate the power boost of a character with "extra" class levels, making it more about increasing versatility than a raw power boost.
This system does have some weaknesses, though. Some people specifically want a simple class to play that doesn't have an abundance of options and choices; they want to just spam the Attack action and not have to think too hard about what they're doing. Though given how complex any TTRPG is, I wonder if that ship hadn't already sailed the moment they picked up the PHB; is there any part of these rules that are simple and don't require much thought? Another weakness is that combat arts are, naturally, restricted to combat, whereas spells often offer a ton of out-of-combat utility. People don't usually complain about how weak martials are in combat compared to casters, but rather that martials don't have much to do outside of combat while the casters can do all kinds of cool stuff. As such, perhaps it would make sense to also include some utility features as part of the martial level progression, separate from combat arts.
Alternatively, maybe we could have some kind of three-way progression system, with caster level and warrior level being just two thirds, and expert levels would make up the remaining portion. Every class might get, say, five parts, with three parts to one set being considered a "full" X. So for example a bard might be three parts caster two parts expert. A rogue might be three parts expert and two parts warrior, while a fighter is three parts warrior and two parts expert, a paladin is three parts warrior and two parts caster, and a cleric is three parts caster and two parts warrior. This still begs the question of what the expert progression track would give, but that can be a separate discussion. I think we're also well past the point of simple homebrew and more into overhaul territory.
Anyway, this is just a basic skeleton of an idea. What do you think? Worth fleshing out? What tweaks would you consider making?
Here's the basic idea: Combat arts are bonuses you can add on top of an attack. You start off being able to apply one combat art to each attack, and as you level up in martial classes you not only learn additional combat arts, but you can also apply more combat arts to a single attack.
Examples of combat arts could be things like the rogue's Sneak Attack, the paladin's Divine Smite, or the monk's Stunning Strike, and most Battle Master maneuvers could probably be adapted as well. You might get specific combat arts from your class while others are free picks (e.g. all rogues get Sneak Attack), or maybe all combat arts are free picks (e.g. as a rogue you can choose not to get Sneak Attack), or maybe each class has a list of combat arts they have access to (e.g. Sneak Attack is only on the rogue list).
Now, as stated above, if combat arts are "per attack", then obviously Extra Attack should figure into the progression. So something like 1 art per attack at 1st level, Extra Attack at 5th level, 2 arts per attack at 11th level, and 3 arts per attack at 17th level. But there's a bit of a wrinkle there in that rogues don't get Extra Attack. This makes me think that Extra Attack should itself be a combat art. This then requires a revised description of how combat arts work:
You can apply a certain number of combat arts per Attack action. If one of those combat arts is Extra Attack, then you can split your other combat arts for that Attack action between the two attacks, but you can't apply the same combat art to both attacks. The number of combat arts known, as well as the number of combat arts you can use per Attack action, scales with your martial level. Half caster classes are also half martial classes. Combat arts per Attack action is one at 1st martial level, two at 5th martial level, three at 11th martial level, and four at 17th martial level.
This sort of a system would have several interesting benefits:
1. It allows martials to spam the Attack action and do something more interesting than just spamming the Attack action. One could say that casters "just spam the Cast a Spell action", but they have to actually choose which spell to cast, which is a significant decision. The choice of which combat arts to use would be a similarly impactful change to the Attack action.
2. It creates a martial analogue to caster levels. It helps martials scale into higher levels, and creates an incentive to stick with martial classes instead of splitting with a caster class. It also allows for progression saving between martial classes, similar to how caster multiclasses can save their spell slot progression.
3. It creates more points of customization for martials. Casters have a lot of freedom to personalize through their spell picks, but a lot of martials are rather limited when it comes to customization. Now they have some more options.
Edit: 4. (Can't believe I forgot this one) By limiting the number of combat arts per Attack action, we can prevent players from stacking too many bonuses together. This isn't as big of a deal in vanilla, but would be a pretty drastic change for something like a gestalt character, who could stack the bonuses from both classes. It helps moderate the power boost of a character with "extra" class levels, making it more about increasing versatility than a raw power boost.
This system does have some weaknesses, though. Some people specifically want a simple class to play that doesn't have an abundance of options and choices; they want to just spam the Attack action and not have to think too hard about what they're doing. Though given how complex any TTRPG is, I wonder if that ship hadn't already sailed the moment they picked up the PHB; is there any part of these rules that are simple and don't require much thought? Another weakness is that combat arts are, naturally, restricted to combat, whereas spells often offer a ton of out-of-combat utility. People don't usually complain about how weak martials are in combat compared to casters, but rather that martials don't have much to do outside of combat while the casters can do all kinds of cool stuff. As such, perhaps it would make sense to also include some utility features as part of the martial level progression, separate from combat arts.
Alternatively, maybe we could have some kind of three-way progression system, with caster level and warrior level being just two thirds, and expert levels would make up the remaining portion. Every class might get, say, five parts, with three parts to one set being considered a "full" X. So for example a bard might be three parts caster two parts expert. A rogue might be three parts expert and two parts warrior, while a fighter is three parts warrior and two parts expert, a paladin is three parts warrior and two parts caster, and a cleric is three parts caster and two parts warrior. This still begs the question of what the expert progression track would give, but that can be a separate discussion. I think we're also well past the point of simple homebrew and more into overhaul territory.
Anyway, this is just a basic skeleton of an idea. What do you think? Worth fleshing out? What tweaks would you consider making?