Monster summoning spells?

[bookkeeping guy]

I don't understand why I don't see a lot of monster summoning spells for wizards, casters on this thread for 3.5 or anything here.

I specifically wanted to ask about long term summons for like defensive play if you guys do stuff like that or have done it. The rules say the summons should be 1 round a level. But it seems like the true fun would be if you had 2 options where the 1 round a level duration would be for offense, but that you could do anything you wanted for defensive purposes such as guarding your base (with pay or meat, etc).

I think there's a lot of fun for potential for like a defensive summoning long term play potential. But wanted to see about feedback from others.

Thanks.

[redking]

What you are looking for is planar binding. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBindingLesser.htm)

[Particle_Man]

There are also reserve feats where for example, if you have a slot of Summon Monster that you *don't* cast, then you can have a minor summoned elemental just hang around for as long as you like.

Animate dead also gives you some longer term allies (as, technically, does charm monster).

[Venger]

In addition to what's been mentioned, the Halaster's fetch line also lets you pull things from the summon monster list at a 3 level surcharge but they don't disappear when the duration is over. They're no longer under your control and are indifferent toward you but you can get them to stick around if you want through diplo, paying them a fair wage, enchantment spells, etc.

[bookkeeping guy]

So I wanted to ask follow ups...

That planar binding skill looks like it was from 3.5. So what did people do in game before they came out with that?

And also on that Halaster's fetch, etc... was it used like... considered to always be successful and not have the creatures rebel? Was the wizard considered to easily manage them permanently if they had a charm spell? Or was it more problematic?

When I was younger, I don't remember either of those 2 spells being around so I'm curious how people worked it then before that. Although I do like these ideas you presented as it covers the gaps.

[Gruftzwerg]

What you are looking for is planar binding. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBindingLesser.htm)

+ Mindbender
while you lose some spellcasting progression, you can permanently dominate a creature.

I would suggest a Warlock/Mindbender with UMD to use Planar Binding scrolls.
Warlock's Dead Walk (animate dead) can produce either temporary (no material cost) or permanent (regular material cost for animate dead) undead.
Devil's Whspers is Suggestion at-will and the target believes it was its own idea (if the save fails). Perfect for planar binding and any kind of other abuse.

[Inevitability]

That planar binding skill looks like it was from 3.5. So what did people do in game before they came out with that?

Book of Vile Darkness offers a few demon- or devil-summoning options, Oriental Adventures had Lesser Spirit Ally / Lesser Spirit Binding and their upgrades. Gate also works.

But also, I'm pretty sure the 3.0 phb still had planar binding and planar ally, are you talking about earlier editions?


And also on that Halaster's fetch, etc... was it used like... considered to always be successful and not have the creatures rebel? Was the wizard considered to easily manage them permanently if they had a charm spell? Or was it more problematic?

Halaster's Fetch seems to be an in-universe explanation of how an insane wizard could easily populate his dungeon with monsters. Given that he ran the place for centuries after that, it seems to have worked pretty well. More information can probably be found in the undermountain/waterdeep books.

If you're using a charm spell, the summoned monsters will see you as a friendly acquaintance for as long as they remain affected. They might still want to look for a way back home, but if you can plausibly convince them that's not possible, it shouldn't be too hard to convince them to stay and help guard the place? Charms still run out, and they're still not perfect control, but it's generally solid enough.

[Rebel7284]

Well, making monster summoning too easy and long term is a balance problem since wizards would be highly incentivised to build large armies to accomplish their goals and D&D would be a very different game. If anything, army building is way too easy in the current system! (Lesser) Planar Bidding/Planar Ally come online fairly early and classes like Thrallherd exist. Most of these methods have some sort of limits (either payment or control caps typically), but as is, it's very easy to convert any sort of downtime into a force multiplier by mid level.

[meschlum]

So I wanted to ask follow ups...

That planar binding skill looks like it was from 3.5. So what did people do in game before they came out with that?

And also on that Halaster's fetch, etc... was it used like... considered to always be successful and not have the creatures rebel? Was the wizard considered to easily manage them permanently if they had a charm spell? Or was it more problematic?

When I was younger, I don't remember either of those 2 spells being around so I'm curious how people worked it then before that. Although I do like these ideas you presented as it covers the gaps.

1e had Cacodemon (Magic-User 7), which was an option some time before 3.5. Most likely what inspired Planar Binding, with a lot fewer options. There were also a few specific spells (Aerial Servant, Invisible Stalker) and in depth reading of various monster manuals could provide more potential summons. There was a definite tendency to have the summons misbehave, in all - possibly because early 1e had only evil (long term) summons as possibilities.

[sreservoir]

There's always wall of horse (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mount.htm) (and its higher-level shapeable counterpart, Regal Procession, on SpC 172). It probably won't do much fighting, but hey, if you can't find defensive utility in popping out a big meatsack to sit around all day, I don't know what to tell you.

If you can finagle yourself a dragonmark, either Making or an aberrant mark (which would let you cast Mask Aberrant Dragonmark), Summon Marked Homunculus is one of two(?) hour/level summoning spells. The other is Summon Devoted Roc, but that's a 9th-level Sky domain spell.

[Thurbane]

There are some spells on my list that are longer than 1 round/level, but not many: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23345947&postcount=4

Summon Devoted Roc and Summon Marked Homunculus are 1 hour/level.

[Anthrowhale]

The necrotic cyst line of spells are more exotic but provide a more durable form of control than Charm Monster. In particular, Necrotic Tumor is a level 7 spell with a permanent duration.

Of course, even that pales in comparison to Ice Assassin.

[sreservoir]

There are some spells on my list that are longer than 1 round/level, but not many: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23345947&postcount=4

Summon Devoted Roc and Summon Marked Homunculus are 1 hour/level.

Summon Regal Procession inherits from Mount and doesn't have its own duration line, so it should probably be marked 2h/level as well, if you're updating that list.

[Crake]

That planar binding skill looks like it was from 3.5. So what did people do in game before they came out with that?

3.5 was a revision to 3.0, not an expansion. It didn't add new content, it just changed how that content worked. Think of it like a balance patch rather than a content patch. As others have stated, planar binding existed in 3.0, so people still used that.

[Mordante]

If I remember correctly the duration of summon monster was nerfed from AD&D to D&D 3.x. I never liked this, I always felt a druid should be able to summon monsters for a longer period. Most of the time we didn't use them for combat. The monsters were used as scouts or to sent messages.