Unbreakable thrown ammunition by RAW?

[Condé]

Heya,

Is there anything to make or get a thrown ammunition unbreakable? I'm talking about weapons like Shurikens, Skiprock etc... Who are thrown weapons AND considered ammunitions for many purposes.

Not working


Raptor Arrow I know there is the Raptor Arrow. But it's not really what I'm looking for, since it is an arrow. So an improvised weapon at best and its effect won't work with a throwing build.
Riverine Some are talking about Riverine, or other special materials like that. But nothing in the rules state anything about Reverine override the ammunition ruling.
Aurorum Aurorum is also a special material that allow a sundered item to be put back together but it specifies "Sundered".
Thrown ammunition aren't sundered, they are destroyed when they hit something.


Anything else else?

So... Is there an obscure material, or a thrown weapon, considered an ammunition, that is not destroyed when thrown/hit something?

The special material index makes no mention of that. And it's pretty hard to scan weapons, looking for special rules like that. But as far as I saw, I never saw unbreakable ammunition.

What I'm trying to achieve

I like the idea of being able to use shurikens... But not the idea of "enchanting" consumable. I know the "trick" of enchanting only one shuriken for 1/50 of the gold and never throw it and basically have multiple enchantments for a fraction of the price... It is fun, but I would not want to do that to my DM, honestly. It is pretty cheesy.
Having unbreakable shuriken is cheesy... But less, since I am going to use them as they are: ammunitions and not keeping them in my hand, for +5AC/Initi or even put Morphing and having a two handed sword for the price of a singular shuriken.

Related "solution" if there is nothing like this

I like the spell Fire Shuriken. Sadly, only two classes have it in their spell list. Wu Jen and Assassin. The later is a big no-no since it requires you to be Evil. Avenger is not a solution either because it is a different class and doesn't have the same list as the Assassin and tho, no Fire Shuriken.
Still could buy a wand of Fire Shuriken but at the lower level you could only enchant like 50 shuriken for 4500gp. Not the worst deal but not ideal.
Fiendbenderblooded (:smallbiggrin:) can get spells with the fire description but the chassis is not ideal for throwing shuriken. Same for wyrm wizard.

Thanks.

[Gruftzwerg]

Maybe you can talk your DM into a custom item?
Turning a Quiver of Anariel into a magical Shuriken pouch that refills itself shouldn't be to far stretched.
This would give you unlimited magical shuriken (+1 till +5).
For specific enchantments you still need regular shuriken, but this solution should still reduce the costs and the load of thousands shurikens needed for a long adventure.
_____________

Regarding Riverin Shuriken:
Imho it doesn't work at all...

Being enclosed in magical force, it is immune
to all damage and is unaffected by most spells.

Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

The ammunition doesn't take any damage, it is just directly destroyed/rendered useless. Riverine doesn't help here at all..

edit: If you are interested, have a look at my ShurikeNado (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?526875) build.

[Condé]

Maybe you can talk your DM into a custom item?
Turning a Quiver of Anariel into a magical Shuriken pouch that refills itself shouldn't be to far stretched.
This would give you unlimited magical shuriken (+1 till +5).
For specific enchantments you still need regular shuriken, but this solution should still reduce the costs and the load of thousands shurikens needed for a long adventure.
_____________

Regarding Riverin Shuriken:
Imho it doesn't work at all...



The ammunition doesn't take any damage, it is just directly destroyed/rendered useless. Riverine doesn't help here at all..

edit: If you are interested, have a look at my ShurikeNado (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?526875) build.

Sadly, don't think it would be possible. Not the best with crafting rules tho so I don't now if it could be possible. (Without being a total homebrew I mean)
And mostly, I was looking for something undeniable.

Ah yeah, I know about Riverine. I put it there because I saw people talking about it could potentially prevent the ammunition to be destroyed but I don't think it would, for the reason you wrote.

Same for Aurorum. It needs to be sundered for the effect to work.

[Inevitability]

There's already a 'generally' in the line that talks about ammunition being destroyed: can't you just have a chat with your DM and establish when the general rule doesn't apply?

[ShurikVch]

This would be a ridiculous overkill, but by making the shuriken in question a focus for Kissed by the Ages you would make it literally indestructible:

Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F, XP
Casting Time: 1 Hour
Range: Touch
Target: Any living creature other than yourself
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You create a magical connection between a living creature and a small magic item like a ring, pendant, or similar trinket with a market price of at least 4,000gp. This forever eliminates the item's existing magical properties and causes it to radiate a strong aura of necromancy. The recipient of the spell may draw upon the strange, inanimate resilience of this object, gaining the endless special quality so long as she wears it (which occupies an item slot on the body). If she loses or otherwise removes this object, however, she begins to age again at the rate normal for her race and in addition suffers a -1 penalty upon all saving throws. Against death effects she suffers a -2 penalty. These penalties remain in effect until she once again carries the object on her person. The connection she enjoys with this object makes it all but impossible to destroy while she lives, require the intervention of a deity, contact with an artifact, or similarly unusual circumstances to smash it. Due to her special connection with it, the recipient of the spell always knows the approximate location of her object so long as both are on the same plane.
Focus: Magic item with a market price of at least 4,000gp.
XP Cost: 5,000 xp.
Nothing short of an artifact, or direct divine intervention would be able to destroy your shuriken, and you - by your connection - could even detect its location (thus, it can't even be truly lost)

About the Flame Shuriken - you said Fiend-blooded (? Fiendbender sounds like the "Avatar" spinoff) and Wyrm Wizard aren't good, but how about Chameleon or Recaster?

[Condé]

This would be a ridiculous overkill, but by making the shuriken in question a focus for Kissed by the Ages you would make it literally indestructible:

Nothing short of an artifact, or direct divine intervention would be able to destroy your shuriken, and you - by your connection - could even detect its location (thus, it can't even be truly lost)

About the Flame Shuriken - you said Fiend-blooded (? Fiendbender sounds like the "Avatar" spinoff) and Wyrm Wizard aren't good, but how about Chameleon or Recaster?

Hm... Yeah. Overkill might be the word.. Ah ah. I didn't know that spell, it is quite interesting. (But from Dragon Magazine and by default, we don't play with Dragon Mag content. Think I should have said that earlier... Whoops!)

Ah ah. Yes. Fiend-blooded of course. And I knew about Chameleon and Recaster. Chameleon's chassis is a bit better (way better actually). Still wonder if there's something else I'm missing. This might be the most frustrating thing with 3.5, ou have so much material spread into so many books and online articles that it is difficult to keep track of everything...

[ciopo]

Isn't it as simple as giving the (singular) shuriken the returning property?

[Condé]

Isn't it as simple as giving the (singular) shuriken the returning property?

Shuriken are ammunitions, they are destroyed if they hit something or have 50% to be if they miss.

[ShurikVch]

How about to use (Tiny-sized?) Chakram instead of Shuriken? I mean - they aren't ammunition, but still circular throwing weapon...

Also, how about to take Spell Thematics feat with "Thematics" of "Shuriken", and use it on such ranged spells as Ice Dagger or Orb of ...?

[Condé]

How about to use (Tiny-sized?) Chakram instead of Shuriken? I mean - they aren't ammunition, but still circular throwing weapon...

Also, how about to take Spell Thematics feat with "Thematics" of "Shuriken", and use it on such ranged spells as Ice Dagger or Orb of ...?

The thing is, Shuriken being an ammunition, it is a free action to draw and you can throw a bunch of them. Plus, Shuriken being an ammunition, it cost way less to put enhancement/enchantments on it.
The "trick" is to enchant only one with a bunch of defensive bonus and keep it in your hands. There is even a handbook about it. (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=10419.0)
I want to use them as they are: Shurikens. But they are destroyed when they hit something... And that bother me to "throw" money away.

Being a shuriken is not the point. It could be any other thrown/ammunition (There isn't much of them) like a Skiprock or anything... The point is to have a ammunition that doesn't break when you throw it.
I want to do that to make up for the cost of enhancement on a lot of weapons. For example, your Tiny-Sized Chakram is fine and all. But it would still cost a lot to get enchanted. And you need a lot of it, like 3 or maybe 4 with at least +1/Returning to be interesting. And it cost a loooooot.

So, Spell Thematics is a cool idea, in fact. But it does not solve my issue.

And as I said, there might not be a solution to this problem, actually.

[Gruftzwerg]

The point is to have a ammunition that doesn't break when you throw it.

If we can narrow your request down to this, then the solution is imho "Telekinesis - Violent Thrust" + Arrows as ammunition.

I have abused this in my Quiver of Anariel build (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?651183-Nest-of-Bees-TO-Quiver(s)-of-Anariel).

Violent Thrust lets you launch up to 15 arrows that deal damage as dagger. In this case you aren't using the arrows as "ammunition for a projectile weapon", thus bypassing that annoying rule. The Violent Thrust rules are more specific here.
Use a quiver of anariel as regular ammunition source and another quiver for your special ammunition (e.g. spellstoring).

If you don't wanna be a caster, you also have the option to just get a Ring of Telekinesis. It has a caster lvl of 9 and thus allows you to launch up to 9 arrows (imho still impressive enough for most tables).

[Metastachydium]

And as I said, there might not be a solution to this problem, actually.

Hm. Do you mind treading into murky water? If you don't, well, technically darts are both thrown weapons and ammunition, given that the dart thrusterUnd uses regular darts. However, when not fired from a dart thruster, its ammunition (aka the plain old dart) is not destroyed on impact by default. Consequently, the stupid-dubiously-RAW-legal solution is to wield a dart thruster, free action draw darts (Three at a time!) as ammunition for it, and then change your mind and instead of move action loading them into the thruster, standard or full-round action throw them.

[ShurikVch]

The thing is, Shuriken being an ammunition, it is a free action to draw and you can throw a bunch of them.
What's you mean by "a bunch"? :smallconfused:
TWF/Rapid Shot? But you can do it with any throwing weapon!..
Is it just to not take the Quick Draw feat?


Plus, Shuriken being an ammunition, it cost way less to put enhancement/enchantments on it.
Which is "mitigated" by the destruction-on-hit. (Because - hey, nobody would buy or craft it, if they were as expensive as "usual" weapon)
They even weren't ammunition in 3.0...

Honestly, I was sure there were some magic items or class features which put some special stuff on any weapon you use - but, alas, all I could find almost don't worth mentioning: Storm Disciple capstone, Bluerot from Drowned One template, or Worm of Kyuss from Scion of Kyuss/Favored Spawn of Kyuss...

How about a Bloodstorm Blade?

Or - Ballisteer (https://web.archive.org/web/20151102164407/https://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b)?

[daremetoidareyo]

According to Oriental adventures sorcerers can choose to make their spell list to get drawn from the Wujen list. So there’s another class with fire shuriken

[Condé]

If we can narrow your request down to this, then the solution is imho "Telekinesis - Violent Thrust" + Arrows as ammunition.

I have abused this in my Quiver of Anariel build (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?651183-Nest-of-Bees-TO-Quiver(s)-of-Anariel).

Violent Thrust lets you launch up to 15 arrows that deal damage as dagger. In this case you aren't using the arrows as "ammunition for a projectile weapon", thus bypassing that annoying rule. The Violent Thrust rules are more specific here.
Use a quiver of anariel as regular ammunition source and another quiver for your special ammunition (e.g. spellstoring).

If you don't wanna be a caster, you also have the option to just get a Ring of Telekinesis. It has a caster lvl of 9 and thus allows you to launch up to 9 arrows (imho still impressive enough for most tables).

Interesting. Quite late, but interesting. I looked at Master of the Unseen Hand for that purpose a couple days ago. You can take the ghost savage progression or be a caster, so it isn't really ideal.

Still, I belive arrows are still amunition, even used that way. Since you can use arrows as improved weapons in melee and they still are considered ammunition. (Saw some threads talking about this subject)



Hm. Do you mind treading into murky water? If you don't, well, technically darts are both thrown weapons and ammunition, given that the dart thrusterUnd uses regular darts. However, when not fired from a dart thruster, its ammunition (aka the plain old dart) is not destroyed on impact by default. Consequently, the stupid-dubiously-RAW-legal solution is to wield a dart thruster, free action draw darts (Three at a time!) as ammunition for it, and then change your mind and instead of move action loading them into the thruster, standard or full-round action throw them.

And... I believe they do not "become" ammunition. They are used as one, yes. And even then, do they become "Ammunition" juste when you are going to load them but finally no?
It dos not solve the problem since they still aren't ammunition the enhancement of a dart, even with this Dart Thruster (Nice weapon btw) is not cheaper. Aaaaand... Yes, this is dubbious. I guess not many DM would let this pass.


What's you mean by "a bunch"? :smallconfused:
TWF/Rapid Shot? But you can do it with any throwing weapon!..
Is it just to not take the Quick Draw feat?


Which is "mitigated" by the destruction-on-hit. (Because - hey, nobody would buy or craft it, if they were as expensive as "usual" weapon)
They even weren't ammunition in 3.0...

Honestly, I was sure there were some magic items or class features which put some special stuff on any weapon you use - but, alas, all I could find almost don't worth mentioning: Bracers of Archery, Storm Disciple capstone, Bluerot from Drowned One template, or Worm of Kyuss from Scion of Kyuss/Favored Spawn of Kyuss...

How about a Bloodstorm Blade?

Or - Ballisteer (https://web.archive.org/web/20151102164407/https://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b)?

No it is not just for that.
Sorry, I am often thinking about Palm Throw that let you throw two Shuriken (Or darts or dagger) at once. So you basically double the amount of shuriken you can throw every turn. (By just not applying your strength modifier)


Bloodstorm Blade is great for throwing and make it probably way better than most options. But still, it does not solve the issue.

The only purpose of using Shuriken (Or other Thrown/ammunition weapons like Skiprock) is that it is cheaper to enchance/enchant. But because they are ammunitions, they are destroyed when used. And I want to prevent that from happening.


According to Oriental adventures sorcerers can choose to make their spell list to get drawn from the Wujen list. So there’s another class with fire shuriken

EDIT1: OH MY. I HAVE TO CHECK THAT. (Probably gonna edit this post after)

[Darg]

Why not just repair them? It's not like they are disintegrated. Unlike arrows and bolts, shuriken are considered weapons and therefore qualify to be repaired. You just have to collect them. The section on repairing magic items doesn't say that you can't repair destroyed magical items, nor that the magical abilities aren't repaired with the item.

[ShurikVch]

Reverse-engineer the -2 curse (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#swordCursed), apply it to a couple of shurikens?
They would come back all the time (even multiple times in a same round)
Downsides: -2 "enhancement" (and you paying money for it!..)

[Gruftzwerg]

Still, I belive arrows are still amunition, even used that way. Since you can use arrows as improved weapons in melee and they still are considered ammunition. (Saw some threads talking about this subject)


Let us have a close look at the ammunition rule again:



Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), or sling bullets (for slings). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading. Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons), and what happens to them after they are thrown.

Imho the rule sole applies for the general purpose of ammunition used by projectile weapons (and shuriken), but not for specific purposes like using arrows/bolts as improvised weapon where they ain't used as ammunition.

[daremetoidareyo]

EDIT1: OH MY. I HAVE TO CHECK THAT. (Probably gonna edit this post after)

Page 30 of OA
Game Rule Information: As described in the Player’s Handbook. Sorcerers can use either the wizard/sorcerer spell list from the Player’s Handbook or the wu jen spell list in Chapter 7.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Add morphing and sizing to a raptor arrow. You can turn it into a throwing weapon that returns to you and doesn't break on a throw, since it still has the raptor arrow properties.

[ShurikVch]

Add morphing and sizing to a raptor arrow. You can turn it into a throwing weapon that returns to you and doesn't break on a throw, since it still has the raptor arrow properties.
Morphing weapon:

You can reshape a morphing weapon into any other melee or thrown weapon of the same size and type (light, one-handed, or two-handed). For instance, a morphing greatsword could become a spear, greataxe, or dire flail.
Raptor Arrows are neither melee, nor thrown weapon...

[Inevitability]

Make Whole should work, but it's a 2nd-level spell that can give you only a single shuriken per casting.

If we're dealing with magic items, a truenamer's Rebuild Item used within a round should work as well. Try seeing if an ironwood shuriken covered in Unguent of Timelessness gives you more time!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Morphing weapon:

Raptor Arrows are neither melee, nor thrown weapon...So you can't turn it into an arrow. I don't see the issue if you're wanting to throw it, since you don't typically throw arrows.

[ShurikVch]

So you can't turn it into an arrow. I don't see the issue if you're wanting to throw it, since you don't typically throw arrows.
This is the issue:

Price: +1 bonus
Property: Melee or thrown weapon
Caster Level: 9th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 19) transmutation
Activation: Standard

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is the issue:You can explicitly use arrows as melee weapons. And even if that doesn't work because the DM rules against it, there are myriad ways to change one object into another, such as buying a (quite cheap, all things considered) scroll of polymorph any object to turn the arrow into a magical masterwork sword, or a scroll of dispel magic followed by fabricate, likewise to turn it into a (temporarily) nonmagical masterwork sword, after which you can enhance it as a morphing/sizing weapon with all the benefits granted by being a raptor arrow. Either add throwing or use a weapon crystal, from the Magic Item Compendium.

[GeoffWatson]

The 1/50 discount assumes the item is destroyed as it's used. If not, you shouldn't get a discount.

The item creation and pricing rules are DM guidelines, not player-side character creation part two.

[Darg]

An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as a light improvised weapon (-4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier ×2).

No, it's an improvised melee weapon.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

No, it's an improvised melee weapon.And improvised melee weapons are still melee weapons, just improvised ones. Note that "melee weapon" is part of "improvised melee weapon."

[JNAProductions]

And improvised melee weapons are still melee weapons, just improvised ones. Note that "melee weapon" is part of "improvised melee weapon."

Then what’s NOT a melee weapon?

Is a dead person able to talk? A person can talk, after all.

[Gruftzwerg]

And improvised melee weapons are still melee weapons, just improvised ones. Note that "melee weapon" is part of "improvised melee weapon."

You can't have an improvised masterwork weapon. The two definition are excluding each other.


A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

You can’t add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon (see the Craft skill). The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition). Adding the masterwork quality to a double weapon costs twice the normal increase (+600 gp).

Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used. The enhancement bonus of masterwork ammunition does not stack with any enhancement bonus of the projectile weapon firing it.

All magic weapons are automatically considered to be of masterwork quality. The enhancement bonus granted by the masterwork quality doesn’t stack with the enhancement bonus provided by the weapon’s magic.

Even though some types of armor and shields can be used as weapons, you can’t create a masterwork version of such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Instead, masterwork armor and shields have lessened armor check penalties.


Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses one in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

A masterwork weapon is specifically designed for its purpose and especially good at that (+1), while an improvised weapon is specifically not crafted for that purpose and bad at that (-4 to hit). Finally, the improvised weapon rules did give you the permission to wield em like a weapon, but that doesn't turn the object into that weapons. Nowhere do the rules give you the permission for that.

[Nihilarian]

For fire shuriken, in addition to wu jen and assassin you could get it from the Chameleon PRC. Grab Elven Spell Lore with your bonus feat on your off days to make a variety of elemental shurikens. Use Psychic Rogue as the base and snag Dissolving Weapon to boost it further with sneak attack and acid damage. May be overkill to use divine power, or to grab tashalatora and get flurry. But you could do both.

[Condé]

You know you thread is good when two people are arguing about weapon category, or if precocious apprentice trick works by raw or what is a natural weapon...

But, believe it or not, it doesn't matter at the end, since the magical arrow is a relic, and is basically an indestructible arrow costing 6006gp, but its effect is not going to work when thrown. I guess that is something.
Otherwise, I believe it won't get the "Thrown" or "Melee" property. You can use it as an improved weapon and throw it via the Throw Anything feat but that's pretty much it.

I reviewed a lot of special material and... None of them seem to even mention "ammunition". And Raptor Arrow seems to be the only item in the game that does what I am looking for. Sadly, it is an arrow...
And a freaking Relic. Good luck finding that in your game.

[Anthrowhale]

You could be a cleric who uses the spontaneous domain ACF on the Spell domain to repeatedly cast Anyspell[Fire Shuriken] in off time. You can also use your 5th level slots to cast Triadspell to triple the number of Fire Shurikens. And of course you can persist divine power for full BAB.

You might consider Spelldancer as well to layer on Searing Spell systematically.

[ShurikVch]

Be a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold
Pact Insidious (Fiendish Codex II) for 9th-level spell slot (it, unlike the Pact Certain, wouldn't switch your alignment)
Take Improved Spell Capacity (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) - for 10th-level spell slot
Take Innate Spell (Complete Arcane) - now you can use Fire Shuriken as a SLA 1/round
Alternate route: Sphere Sorcerer (Dragon #330) - Fire sphere would allow to cast Fire Shuriken as a 1st-level spell (thus, removing the need in Dragonwrought Kobold and Improved Spell Capacity)

[Rebel7284]

REBUILD ITEM

Level: 3

Range: Touch

Target: Destroyed item touched

Duration: Instantaneous

You reconstitute a destroyed item, instantly putting it back together into one functional piece.

With this utterance, you instantly restore an item destroyed within the last round to its normal, undamaged state. Essentially, by reminding the item of its truename, you unmake its destruction. Magic items affected by this power retain all their magical properties, unlike items restored with a make whole spell. The reconstituted item has full hit points.

This utterance has no effect on any item that has been destroyed for more than 1 round. You cannot restore a destroyed artifact with this utterance.


So 11 levels in Truenamer will allow you to restore any non-artifact Shuruken. This is the only reliable method I know of doing this. :)

[Condé]

So 11 levels in Truenamer will allow you to restore any non-artifact Shuruken. This is the only reliable method I know of doing this. :)


This utterance has no effect on any item that has been destroyed for more than 1 round.

Step 1. Throw a single (1) shuriken at a bad guy. End your turn.
Step 2. Next round. Move to where you threw the shuriken.
Step 3. Cast Rebuild Item.
Step 4. Repeat. :smallbiggrin:

[loky1109]

You could be a cleric who uses the spontaneous domain ACF on the Spell domain to repeatedly cast Anyspell[Fire Shuriken] in off time.
It doesn't work.

Anyspell allows you to read and prepare any arcane spell of up to 2nd level.
The prepared spell occupies your 3rd-level domain spell slot.
You have only one 3rd-level domain spell slot.

[Anthrowhale]

It doesn't work.

You have only one 3rd-level domain spell slot.

Spontaneous domain makes it work. The sequence is:


Spontaneously cast Anyspell
Cast Anyspell and memorize Fire Shuriken
Cast Fire Shuriken
Repeat

[loky1109]

Spontaneous domain makes it work. The sequence is:


Spontaneously cast Anyspell
Cast Anyspell and memorize Fire Shuriken
Cast Fire Shuriken
Repeat


Anyspell has 15 minutes casting time. It "works", but who needs it?

[Anthrowhale]

Anyspell has 15 minutes casting time. It "works", but who needs it?

By level 20 you can use with Triadspell and an hour each day to manufacture 72 fire shuriken. That seems plausibly reasonable and adequate? You'll want to layer on Greater Magic Weapon, lesser rods of maximize spell, flame arrow, sacred item, etc... for level 20 opponents. That all seems easily doable.

[Vizzerdrix]

Have you considdered shapesand?

[Nihilarian]

Anyspell has 15 minutes casting time. It "works", but who needs it?why would that matter? You're not casting it in battle.

[Condé]

Have you considdered shapesand?

I think you cannot enchant weapons made from shape sand this they cannot be masterworked. And nothing in the rule say that a magical weapon made of shape sand would keep its magic after they broke.

[Vizzerdrix]

I think you cannot enchant weapons made from shape sand this they cannot be masterworked. And nothing in the rule say that a magical weapon made of shape sand would keep its magic after they broke.

You can do masterwork as it is a mundane quality then apply one of those gems from the mic.

[ericgrau]

As homebrew you could ask the DM to allow enchanted shuriken at the regular thrown weapon price, that doesn't break. I think that's fair even with the advantage of being drawn rapidly. But magical thrown weapons already weren't great.

But you're actually better off with breakable bane shuriken of various common creature types, along with non-magical shuriken of various metals for DR. And perhaps a handful of +1s for DR/magic just in case. If you can buy around 5-10 of each that's better, since each one may only come up once or twice in the entire campaign. And being Green Arrow with any kind of ammo I think is more intended than cheesy. That's the advantage ammo has over regular weapons. And for the gold you spend probably lasts as long as regular weapons before they get sold/replaced or upgraded. The only hard part is finding a city that has them, if you're buying them and not starting with them.

Or talk to your DM and find a middle ground that seems fair to make re-usable magical thrown weapons worth it but not too strong. A price discount perhaps with the caveat that it doesn't apply to melee. The other thing to consider is that you're usually better off with non-magical weapons (even melee magical weapons) at lower levels anyway, thus removing the need for any enchantments at those levels. There are better items to help your damage such as stat boosters, boots of speed or countless MIC options that are even better. The only major reason to have magic weapons at low levels is DR, and for that there is oil of magic weapon or again a handful of +1s for the one time it comes up.

Or hopefully you can find a trick that works and is fair, but homebrew seems better than an unintended/unfair trick with no designer thought put into balance.