The Ghosts of Cats

[Palanan]

So, I had the idea of an urban character who communes with the ghosts of city cats, and who always has a few ghostly cats around to help her out. They’re not the tortured, driven, shrieky sort of ghosts, just…local cats who happen to be ghosts.

Is there a way for a character to have multiple small-animal ghosts as animal companions? All I can think of is how 3.0 allowed for multiple animal companions, but not sure how to adapt that to Pathfinder. The cats don’t need to have the ghost template per se, but I would like them to be incorporeal in some fashion. Is there a way to do this?

[Crake]

I don't think it's possible from level 1. Talk to your DM, you may be able to get them as just NPCs that hang around, rather than like, animal companions that you control and direct, though expect lots of meowing for treats when you're trying to be stealthy.

[Rynjin]

This seems like more something you could fluff your spells as being for a Shaman with the Slums (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/slums-shaman-spirit/) Spirit, for example. The Bonesp (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/bones/) Spirit also makes your Familiar visually ghost-like and have constant Blur.

(Or Streets (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo-oracle-mysteries/streets-oracle-mystery/) Oracle, but they don't get the free cat Familiar; the Revelations are, however, more thematically appropriate, with ones like Eyes of the Streets explicitly using spiritual animals for its scrying effects, and The City Provides being easily fluffed as your ghost cats bringing you something handy.).

A Totem Spiritualist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult-classes/spiritualist/archetypes/paizo-llc-spiritualist-archetypes/totem-spiritualist-spiritualist-archetype/) can also get a (big) cat, though I don't think there's a multi-pet archetype for Spiritualist like there is for other pet classes.

[Beni-Kujaku]

If you don't mean to use the cats in combat (and it doesn't seem like you do), you could argue that Disembodied Spirits (https://web.archive.org/web/20161101074252/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030924a) cats are considered level 1 followers for Undead Leadership (pretty easily convertible to Pathfinder using the same conversion method as regular Leadership). They can still spy, but will never help in combat or to carry stuff. They are just cute little cats that follow you around. Your cohort could be an actual ghost cat or other feline incorporeal creature, like a Spectral Panther, a Ghost Jaguar....

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Rynjin
Or Streets Oracle, but they don't get the free cat Familiar; the Revelations are, however, more thematically appropriate, with ones like Eyes of the Streets explicitly using spiritual animals for its scrying effects, and The City Provides being easily fluffed as your ghost cats bringing you something handy.

Very interesting, thanks. But ideally I would like the ghost cats to be around on a permanent basis, rather than summons or a refluffing of a short-duration ability.


Originally Posted by Rynjin
…though I don't think there's a multi-pet archetype for Spiritualist like there is for other pet classes.

What are the other multi-pet archetypes? I think there’s one for the hunter, but can’t be sure otherwise.


Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku
Your cohort could be an actual ghost cat….

How would this work in practice? Would you just apply the ghost template to a cat? How would you line up the resulting creature with a Leadership score or an equivalent animal companion?

[Beni-Kujaku]

How would this work in practice? Would you just apply the ghost template to a cat? How would you line up the resulting creature with a Leadership score or an equivalent animal companion?

Yeah, adding the ghost template to a regular housecat would do the trick. It's legal and doesn't seem to clash with anything. Leadership has tables to give equivalent cohort levels for monsters. Basically, it's between 1.5 and 2 times the monster's CR. Considering a common cat as a ghost is only CR 1/2, it should not be a problem (would probably be a cohort of equivalent level 1 to 2. Maybe 3 if you consider the cat is particularly synergistic with the ghost template). A ghost lynx would be CR 4 and act as a cohort of level 6 to 8. As always, see with your DM.

[Telonius]

Non-mechanical answer: If a regular cat decides that somebody's front porch is their home, then the person either gains a cat or drives them off. These things are cats who are freed from the needs of food and shelter. If they decide that the Necromancy expert who can see them is now their person, that's that. Necromancer either lives with it or rebukes them.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku
Yeah, adding the ghost template to a regular housecat would do the trick.

Interesting, thanks.

Looking at the ghost template, not much of that is necessary to my concept, and especially not the special attacks. These aren’t vengeful ghost cats who are targeting people with frightful meows of doom; they’re more the silent-meow type. They also don’t need a fly speed, channel resistance, etc.

All I really need is the incorporeal subtype. Is there an easy way to apply that to an animal, and if so how does that affect its CR?

[Rynjin]

What are the other multi-pet archetypes? I think there’s one for the hunter, but can’t be sure otherwise.


Beastmaster Ranger, Packmaster Hunter, Pack Lord Druid, Huntmaster Cavalier, and Broodmaster Summoner. So there's one for every pet class except for Spiritualist, sadly.

Given your very specific needs, can you use 3rd party material? A Spheres character can, I believe, execute this concept quite easily.

[Gnaeus]

Yeah, I guess you could homebrew a broodmaster archetype to spiritualist. Copy/paste/adapt from summoner. Broodmaster wasn't great on summoner, spiritualist has a worse list, and making them cats rather than humanoids will likely only make them weaker. But you could probably get there. (I am now imagining a character like Binder from Dresden Files with that kind of archetype, which might actually not suck completely in the right play environment. Like in Iron Gods if you can give them guns.)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Rynjin
Beastmaster Ranger, Packmaster Hunter, Pack Lord Druid, Huntmaster Cavalier, and Broodmaster Summoner.

I didn’t know about half of these, thanks. It looks like the Packmaster and Urban Hunter archetypes could mesh nicely, and together they’d be ideal for my needs.

So the question is, how much of a first-level animal companion would an incorporeal cat be? Just the incorporeal subtype, with nothing else from the ghost template. How many incorporeal cats would it take to equal a first-level animal companion?

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[Eldonauran]

Any interesting thing about the Totem Spiritualist... Druid levels stacks with their Phantom Animal ability, but not the reverse. So, if you dipped even one level into Spiritualist and then went the rest Druid, you've have a fairly powerful phantom animal without much deviation from your main class.

[Rynjin]

Any interesting thing about the Totem Spiritualist... Druid levels stacks with their Phantom Animal ability, but not the reverse. So, if you dipped even one level into Spiritualist and then went the rest Druid, you've have a fairly powerful phantom animal without much deviation from your main class.

What was it with the last year or two of PF1 material and making interesting scaling options for multiclassing like this? There were a few released and they're all VERY neat. It makes me wonder if the team was experimenting with making multiclassing a more palatable option in Pathfinder before they decided to scrap it and go with "Variant Multiclassing is the only multiclassing" in PF2.

[Palanan]

So, I’ve got it narrowed down to two questions:

1. Is there any way to apply the incorporeal subtype without including the rest of the ghost template?

2. How would this affect an animal’s CR, and specifically, how would an incorporeal cat compare to a first-level animal companion?

[Tzardok]

I mean, if you have your GM's permission, you could just put the incorporeal subtype on the cat (and change the type to undead, presumably). You don't need to find some rule or template that makes it "legal". You would need to spend some time thinking about how to translate the cat's natural weapon into an Incorporeal Touch Attack, but that's easy. CR propably just rises by 1 or 2.

[Promethean]

Would cats have 9 ghosts?

One for each Life! :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tzardok
CR propably just rises by 1 or 2.

So, the baseline common cat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/felines/cat/) has a CR of 1/4. Would adding incorporeality alone bring it up to CR 1? Maybe ¾ or 1¼? I have very little sense for eyeballing CR, so any help would be appreciated.

[Gnaeus]

So, the baseline common cat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/felines/cat/) has a CR of 1/4. Would adding incorporeality alone bring it up to CR 1? Maybe ¾ or 1¼? I have very little sense for eyeballing CR, so any help would be appreciated.

I would certainly say at least one in this case, due to very high potential for abuse. Against anything with magic weapons it's nothing. But against a big chunk of the monster manual it's an unstoppable DoT. Not as bad as a shadow, but functionally not far off.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gnaeus
I would certainly say at least one in this case….

So, how does a 1 CR creature compare with a first-level animal companion? This is where I’m a little confused, since I’m not sure whether a 1 CR incorporeal cat equals a single first-level animal companion, or if they don’t line up that neatly.


Originally Posted by Gnaeus
...it's an unstoppable DoT.

Also, what's a DoT?

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[JNAProductions]

Also, what's a DoT?

Damage over Time.

Basically, if a monster can't hurt the cat, it can chip away HP slowly but surely.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JNAProductions
Basically, if a monster can't hurt the cat, it can chip away HP slowly but surely.

Fair enough, thanks. I’m not seeing a combat role for these particular ghost-cats; the character will rely mainy on summons instead.


Originally Posted by Palanan
So, how does a 1 CR creature compare with a first-level animal companion? This is where I’m a little confused, since I’m not sure whether a 1 CR incorporeal cat equals a single first-level animal companion, or if they don’t line up that neatly.

Any thoughts on this? I’m a little hung up on this point, since I’m not sure how to estimate the CR of an animal companion.