OOTS #1272 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Resileaf]

The 'Roy is heading out alone to get a call from his sister' crowd wins. :smallbiggrin:

[Robots]

Man, I love Roy. This strip was good, I laughed a little.

[Duncun]

Is it just me or does it seem like Bloodfeast can see his sister.

[ThisIsNotDan]

Whoa, what? Is this meant to be totally out of left field? I can't even remember the last time Roy received contact from his sister. I wonder how many times this was foreshadowed?

EDIT: I forgot all about her conversation with Roy that morning. It begins at the end of Strip 1191 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1191.html) if anyone wants to catch up themselves.

[Tzardok]

She did so before at the beginning of the book.

Edit: Her contacting him begun on strip #1191.

[Mic_128]

Is it me, or does Julia seem a lot more mellow?

[Coppercloud]

Does Julia's first line mean that she can see and hear Roy when making a call, even before announcing herself? If so, could she theoretically use the blood oath's connection to spy on Roy with him being none the wiser?

[drazen]

I counted. 80 something strips into the last book, they were battling the frost giants as the 'new' obstacle of Evil Durkon arose.

In the prior book, they were at the parade, having discovered Elan's dad, but not yet heading to the pyramid.

And in the book before that, Haley, Celia, and Belkar were at the Oracle, having discovered the Cloister effect.

Roy's not wrong :)

[Barstro]

Is it just me or does it seem like Bloodfeast can see his sister.

That was my thought. Came here to see if anyone had an explanation.

[Tzardok]

Does Julia's first line mean that she can see and hear Roy when making a call, even before announcing herself? If so, could she theoretically use the blood oath's connection to spy on Roy with him being none the wiser?

I think it's more a feeling of when he's alone and through that a viable target for the spell. Eugene after all also was only able to appear to Roy when he was alone.

[chy03001]

I look forward to Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator's return to form :-D

[Duncun]

I think it's more a feeling of when he's alone and through that a viable target for the spell. Eugene after all also was only able to appear to Roy when he was alone.

Eugene, I think, could actually see him and knew when he as alone. I think he even mentioned it one time that he was waiting on him to be alone.

[Cygnia]

I want a plush Lil' Bloodfeast :smallredface:

[bunsen_h]

It's a good thing that Bloodfeast didn't happen to be in the antimagic area of effect.


Does Julia's first line mean that she can see and hear Roy when making a call, even before announcing herself? If so, could she theoretically use the blood oath's connection to spy on Roy with him being none the wiser?

Maybe? There could be a "he was talking about me" factor. Or being able to hear a few words before becoming visible, while the spell effect is building. We didn't get to see the order of events in 1191.


Is it just me or does it seem like Bloodfeast can see his sister.

I do get that impression. It could be another feature of Julia's improved Sending spell. And apparently having Bloodfeast around doesn't count against the "I'm alone" element.


Eugene, I think, could actually see him and knew when he as alone. I think he even mentioned it one time that he was waiting on him to be alone.

Eugene was able to scry from the outskirts of Mt. Celestia, though, and Julia doesn't have that vantage point.

[Doug Lampert]

The 'Roy is heading out alone to get a call from his sister' crowd wins. :smallbiggrin:

Yep, obviously SOMETHING was going to happen, but I'd have put "Call from Julia" rather low on the list.

He's not lying about their usual progress at this point.

[Coppercloud]

I want a plush Lil' Bloodfeast :smallredface:
Now I want one too. In any case, I hope we get to see more of the little guy.

[Crusher]

Roy with the sincerely raised eyebrows was surprisingly endearing.

Also, I feel like he really fundamentally understands my life. lol.

Edit - Also worth noting, I don't think its *entirely* a lie that Eugene was tapping into something to contact Roy. But wasn't it some kind of family connection to the sword, rather than the blood oath? Plus, obviously, Eugene was in Celestia so the mechanics and hurdles were, I assume, totally different.

[hamishspence]

Good to see Julia again.

[Hardcore]

Twitter notice, again (FTW)

[Resileaf]

He's not lying about their usual progress at this point.

They've defeated Serini and got her as a reluctant ally. That's more progress than they usually have.

[Tarthalion]

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html still points to https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1271.html

I could have sworn it pointed (correctly) to 1272 a few minutes ago.

[Reboot]

Is it just me or does it seem like Bloodfeast can see his sister.

Definitely reacts to Julia in panels 5 & 6. Why else would he turn his head in p5?

[Edward15]

For the record, Julia, Roy attempted to make some progress, but a misguided half-troll halfling fouled that up.

[HUMVEE Driver]

First off I agree with Roy 100%. I've been wondering when he'd say that. Roy knows what's up. So now what? To wait, or not?

Personally, I'd go for it. Agree Y/N? Go for it, Roy! Elan, too!

[mjasghar]

Thanks Rich

[Doug Lampert]

They've defeated Serini and got her as a reluctant ally. That's more progress than they usually have.

Yes, and he SAYS that they're doing better than usual. Which I agree is true.

[CountDVB]

They've defeated Serini and got her as a reluctant ally. That's more progress than they usually have.

Yeah, but Roy is being gnawed that by the various concerns such as dealing with Xykon, handling Redcloak and everything else.

I imagine he may vent to his sister.

[bunsen_h]

Definitely reacts to Julia in panels 5 & 6. Why else would he turn his head in p5?

Hypothetically, he sees that Roy's attention and speech are directed to a location to Roy's right, and is trying to figure out what Roy is looking at. It's a kind of cognitive leap that my old mostly-Border-Collie dog would have made easily, and our current cat would utterly fail at.


Edit - Also worth noting, I don't think its *entirely* a lie that Eugene was tapping into something to contact Roy. But wasn't it some kind of family connection to the sword, rather than the blood oath? Plus, obviously, Eugene was in Celestia so the mechanics and hurdles were, I assume, totally different.

In 1192 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1192.html), Julia says that her improved spell is "using the Blood Oath. You know, the one Dad swore that binds the two of us to finish his vengeance thing? Turns out you can piggyback a signal off that connection, if you know where to look." But for Eugene, per 291 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html), the sword is the link that allowed him to manifest.

[Tzardok]

It's propably both. The Blood Oath allows the contacting in general, but without the sword no "manifestating" is possible.

[Kantaki]

It's kinda cute how highly Julia thinks of her big brother.:smallamused:
What? Being surprised that no progress is a improvement totally counts.:smallbiggrin:

[Tzardok]

It's kinda cute how highly Julia thinks of her big brother.:smallamused:
What? Being surprised that no progress is a improvement totally counts.:smallbiggrin:

I just noticed your signature. You're also a Zamonien fan? :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

I just noticed your signature. You're also a Zamonien fan? :smallbiggrin:

They're pretty fun, yeah.:smallbiggrin:
I mean, Käptn Blaubär was part of my childhood, so I'm probably biased, but that world is just great.

Mind you, the sequel to City of Dreaming Books ends on a incredibly, frustratingly trollish note*, but even that kinda works.

*Cuts off might be the better word, really.:smallamused:

[Psychronia]

He's not wrong. A big fat zero is in the black.

But also, we're in the final arc of this story, so we gotta start wrapping up plotlines at least as fast as we introduce them.

[Zhorn]

Would love to see more of lil'Bloodfeast's interactions with the party. Even if just as background detail.
Set's up ahead of time that they'd at least have a minimal level of imprinting on them as to explain not attacking others in the party if/when the polymorph is ended and big'Bloodfeast is let loose in the heat of battle :smallbiggrin:

Plus loving the subtle body language of the little dude as they skitter about Roy.

Not Belkar? Sad
Too close! Run!
Not threat? Investigate
Changing positing? Skitter!

[Gnome Alone]

Aw, pulled a Redgren Grumboldt on her. Mean. Dang, when's the last time we've seen Julia meatwise, 2016? I mean I could look it up, but, weird to think about how it's only been a few weeks in-world.

[Lkctgo]

I'm good if she helps out in some way but this better not lead to a deus ex machina moment (where the archmagi swoop in to try and beat Xykon). :tongue:

[gatemansgc]

I'm good if she helps out in some way but this better not lead to a deus ex machina moment (where the archmagi swoop in to try and beat Xykon). :tongue:

i doubt she's leveled up anywhere near that much!

[Thermophille]

Wait, I'm confused. Aside from Julia briefly believing Roy, is there a reason we should think the spell can only contact Roy when he's alone?

[Mike Havran]

The good news is that Roy is correct they avoided getting distracted from following the main quest.

The bad news is that the main quest kinda changed from "destroy this lich" to "make the world better for monstrous humanoids".

[WanderingMist]

Is it me, or does Julia seem a lot more mellow?
Julia didn't know the world would be destroyed if they failed until their conversation in 1191. Being a teenager whose father repeatedly died, she probably didn't think anything of Roy possibly dying on his quest because she could always resurrect him later if she wanted. But she doesn't have that option any longer and unlike their dad, actually cares about Roy.

They're pretty fun, yeah.:smallbiggrin:
I mean, Käptn Blaubär was part of my childhood, so I'm probably biased, but that world is just great.

Mind you, the sequel to City of Dreaming Books ends on a incredibly, frustratingly trollish note*, but even that kinda works.

*Cuts off might be the better word, really.:smallamused:
If you want troll endings, you'd be best served by A Series Of Unfortunate Events

Wait, I'm confused. Aside from Julia briefly believing Roy, is there a reason we should think the spell can only contact Roy when he's alone?

Isn't that how the Blood Oath with Eugene worked? And since Julia's piggy-backing on that, she'd have the same issue.

[Thermophille]

Isn't that how the Blood Oath with Eugene worked? And since Julia's piggy-backing on that, she'd have the same issue.

I thought that was a ghost thing? I mean, Bloodfeast is there, so Roy isn't alone, so I'm not sure why the conclusion is "Bloodfeast doesn't count" instead of "that restriction doesn't apply here"

[Tzardok]

I thought that was a ghost thing? I mean, Bloodfeast is there, so Roy isn't alone, so I'm not sure why the conclusion is "Bloodfeast doesn't count" instead of "that restriction doesn't apply here"

Because "Roy needs to be alone" always had exceptions. Sleeping people don't count, people trapped in an illusionary world don't count. Why shouldn't animals be an exception too?

[St Fan]

That's a nice little detail that Bloodfeast is stuck outside, because the only way past the magically summoned wall is through Sunny's antimagic cone, which would automatically revert him to his true form (and thus becoming too big for the hole). Well, someone could teleport him in and out, I guess, but they have limited ressources.

As for why he seems to react to Julia, your guess is as good as mine. Though you have to remember it isn't a standard sending spell, with the alteration brought to it, who knows how it works exactly (even Julia probably doesn't).

Maybe the sender can still be seen by animals, children and the mentally compromised in addition to the target. Which would be a nice reference to Code Quantum, in fact.

[KorvinStarmast]

The good news is that Roy is correct they avoided getting distracted from following the main quest.

The bad news is that the main quest kinda changed from "destroy this lich" to "make the world better for monstrous humanoids". Destroy this lich is a necessary first step. :smallwink: Xykon is an obstacle to Redcloak's long term goals. He is a means to an end, to be disposed of when necessary. (ETA: Obviously, for Redcloak, easier said than done).

As to the strip, glad to see Bloodfeast.
Otherwise we are in a holding pattern waiting to be cleared for the approach to Runway 07 Left ...

[hewhosaysfish]

Julia is being super short-sighted when she says that Roy fixed something that "wasn't a problem this morning".

The paladin's were still captured, even if no-one knew it. They were still being held prisoner.
This was still a problem.

Finding out about the problem and then fixing it are two steps forward from that position, not backwards and then forwards.

But that's a realisitic enough problem. A lot of people IRL want to "shoot the messager", as if it telling them about the problem that caused the problem.
It's just a shame Roy doesn't call her out on it.

[hroþila]

I think you're kinda missing her point, which is that there has been no progress in the overall quest compared to the last time they talked. She isn't saying that the problem didn't exist or that it didn't need fixing.

(which isn't true because they've teamed up with Serini and Sunny, but she doesn't know that)

[drazen]

As for why he seems to react to Julia, your guess is as good as mine.

Given that this is the last book, Julia may be the "suitable vessel" that Sabine procured for the fiends back in strip 1183 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html). Her having much of any contact with Roy feels wildly out of character and the "school project" thing seems like too convenient of an excuse.

There's still a lot of outstanding stuff to wrap up:

- Whatever Roy told Roy's Archon to do
- What the fiends' new vessel is, and who their remaining followers are
- Varsuuvius' two remaining "time outs"
- What is MitD and what role will he play in the final battle
- True nature of Snarl/reality and how to resolve it

[bunsen_h]

Wait, I'm confused. Aside from Julia briefly believing Roy, is there a reason we should think the spell can only contact Roy when he's alone?

It's what Eugene said regarding his own contacts with Roy, and it's consistent with our observations. It would have been to Eugene's benefit to contact Roy under other circumstances if he'd been able to. But we don't have any independent verification of the assertion.

If I remember correctly, the Weapon of Legacy can manifest more special abilities than we've seen yet. That would come at some cost to Roy.

[Fyraltari]

Thinking about it, it's kind of odd that the sword plays a role at all since Eugene never cared for it. Do you think oathspirits would don't have a convenient family heirloom can't go talk to their heirs?

[Peelee]

Thinking about it, it's kind of odd that the sword plays a role at all since Eugene never cared for it. Do you think oathspirits would don't have a convenient family heirloom can't go talk to their heirs?

I once ran a game with one of my best friends as a new player. Another player had a backstory where here sword was an heirloom (fluff only gave no stay bonuses). He asked if heirlooms were things. Long story short, he ended up having heirloom pants for his character.

[Fyraltari]

I once ran a game with one of my best friends as a new player. Another player had a backstory where here sword was an heirloom (fluff only gave no stay bonuses). He asked if heirlooms were things. Long story short, he ended up having heirloom pants for his character.

How many "family jewels" jokes?

[bunsen_h]

Thinking about it, it's kind of odd that the sword plays a role at all since Eugene never cared for it. Do you think oathspirits would don't have a convenient family heirloom can't go talk to their heirs?

Eugene arguably has a strong emotional connection with the sword, even if it's a highly negative one. It symbolizes his conflicts with his father.

[Peelee]

How many "family jewels" jokes?

Zero. Which is why he's such a good friend. :smallwink:

[Fyraltari]

Zero. Which is why he's such a good friend. :smallwink:

For shame.

[Sir_Norbert]

Aw, pulled a Redgren Grumboldt on her. Mean. Dang, when's the last time we've seen Julia meatwise, 2016? I mean I could look it up, but, weird to think about how it's only been a few weeks in-world.

#1196 was published in March 2020.

[Ruck]

Aw, pulled a Redgren Grumboldt on her. Mean. Dang, when's the last time we've seen Julia meatwise, 2016? I mean I could look it up, but, weird to think about how it's only been a few weeks in-world.


#1196 was published in March 2020.

Assuming "meatwise" means "in the flesh and not through the Sending-like spell," it's been much longer than 2016. I don't think we have since the Cliffport arc, which was... #364 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0364.html), in 2006.

[2.5 cats]

Not a huge surprise here, but this is the first seen when anyone in the OotS interacted with Bloodfeast without Belkar present. This comic shows that Bloodfeast sees Roy as one of his people. Might prove to be very helpful later (and either way, nice to see :smallsmile: )!

[a_flemish_guy]

roy mate, I think the little lizzard wants pets, with him crawling all over your boots and all

also I continue in my insistance that this version of the spell is already really handy and doesn't need to be hidden out of shame

I think julia mellowed down to roy due to him coming to her rescue which is not something she expected while roy didn't change because doing so was always within his character, I do hope he eventually drops the attitude to her even if for him nothing has changed except for some reason she has less attitude towards him

[KorvinStarmast]

Long story short, he ended up having heirloom pants for his character. Tomato plants, I am guessing. :smallbiggrin:

This comic shows that Bloodfeast sees Roy as one of his people. People? Among dogs that would be "Roy is part of the pack" but I am not sure if Lizards have the same kind of social structure as dog packs. Apparently, most lizards tend to go solo; (https://www.livescience.com/56017-lizard-facts.html)
, desert night lizards (Xantusia vigilis) live in family groups, according to research by the University of California, Santa Cruz(opens in new tab). With that said, Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, so maybe he's got some 'pack' instincts kind of like the small dinosaurs who ate the little girl in Jurassic Park.

... I do hope he eventually drops the attitude to her even if for him nothing has changed except for some reason she has less attitude towards him When we go back to the Cliffport closing scenes, and the end of their conversation while on board the Mechane, these two share the sibling habit of giving each other stick but they end up expressing their filial love for each (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0364.html) other by the end of the conversation (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1196.html).

[Peelee]

Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, so maybe he's got some 'pack' instincts kind of like the small dinosaurs who ate the little girl in Jurassic Park.

That's quite the leap to make from a very large class to a species-slecific behavior. Using this same train of thought one might try to guess human behavior based on koalas because we are both mammals.

[Coppercloud]

That's quite the leap to make from a very large class to a species-slecific behavior. Using this same train of thought one might try to guess human behavior based on koalas because we are both mammals.
And that wouldn't help to understand the behavior of this forum's posters, who as we established in the previous thread are about equally likely to be humans, dragons, flowers, unicorns or AIs.

[Peelee]

And that wouldn't help to understand the behavior of this forum's posters, who as we established in the previous thread are about equally likely to be humans, dragons, flowers, unicorns or AIs.

Well, when making an account on the site, there is an "are you human" question. Which, I note with great displeasure, spambots frequently lie about. :smalltongue:

[Reboot]

Well, when making an account on the site, there is an "are you human" question. Which, I note with great displeasure, spambots frequently lie about. :smalltongue:

Well, see, you can't ban them for not being human. But you can ban them for lying about not being human ;p

[Puschkin]

And this is why I am not worried about OOTS ending anytime soon. We probably still have years.

[danielxcutter]

I know it's probably been said to death by now, or at least something on those lines, but Roy and Julia have way healthier familial relationships than about 90% of the non-dwarven cast who's family's showed up in the comic.

[KorvinStarmast]

That's quite the leap to make from a very large class to a species-slecific behavior. Using this same train of thought one might try to guess human behavior based on koalas because we are both mammals. Did you take a look at the link? The explicit point made there is that most lizards are not communal; it was a rare exception that the university researchers found that was unusual.

[Peelee]

Did you take a look at the link? The explicit point made there is that most lizards are not communal; it was a rare exception that the university researchers found that was unusual.

A.) lizards are not dinosaurs, so that's not terribly relevant
2.) even disregarding that, then it's even stranger that you would make an assertion that perhaps since one dinosaur does it then maybe a completely different dinosaur might also do it.

[hamishspence]

Allosaurus's social behaviour is the subject of a certain amount of debate - did it hunt in groups, or did it only congregate after a kill?

"Big Al" (from the Walking With Dinosaurs programme The Ballad Of Big Al) had lots of healed wounds - which might possibly indicate living in groups, so, despite being unable to kill for long periods, it was able to eat prey killed by the rest of the group.

However, it's also possible that, after its injuries, it only scavenged abandoned kills - and that it got a lot of its injuries in the first place, from fights at a kill.

It's difficult to be certain one way or another.

[Vikenlugaid]

I know it's probably been said to death by now, or at least something on those lines, but Roy and Julia have way healthier familial relationships than about 90% of the non-dwarven cast who's family's showed up in the comic.

The little we know about Elan and his mother tell us that relationship should be nice. But for the rest...

[KorvinStarmast]

A.) lizards are not dinosaurs, so that's not terribly relevant Dinosaurs are lizards. Dinosaur means "terrible lizard"
di·no·saur /ˈdīnəˌsôr/ mid 19th century: from modern Latin dinosaurus, from Greek deinos ‘terrible’ + sauros ‘lizard’. With that said, Bloodfeast may be an outlier, given that D&D Ranger magic (Belkar's animal friendship / companion class skill) is in play in his particular case.

[hamishspence]

"lizard" is very much an approximation when it comes to the Greek word "sauros". "Reptile" may be more accurate.


As Blackwing points out, dinosaurs are his "clade brothers" - closely related to birds like him.

[hroþila]

Etymology is not taxonomy, dinosaurs are not lizards and sea urchins will not steal your wallet
Or if you prefer, since the original sense of 'urchin' is 'hedgehog', sea urchins are not hedgehogs

[Peelee]

Dinosaurs are lizards. Dinosaur means "terrible lizard"

Do you likewise think Greenland is a lush and fertile meadowland? I am aware of the etymology of "dinosaur". However, it may surprise you to discover that 19th century British scientists did not have an immediately accurate understanding of their discoveries. The scientific community largely believes dinosaurs to be more closely related to birds than reptiles, but there is still debate. And regardless, the operative word is "related".

Dinosaurs are not lizards.

[hamishspence]

With that said, Bloodfeast may be an outlier, given that D&D Ranger magic (Belkar's animal friendship / companion class skill) is in play in his particular case.

We know Bloodfeast was being ridden by Tarquin's soldiers before he ever fell into Belkar's hands.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0922.html

So, regardless of however real allosaur social systems were, OOTS allosaurs are trainable.

[mashlagoo1982]

I choose to believe that Bloodfeast wants Roy to snuggle with him so Boodfeast can get warmer. I find this is often the case with cute small animals that are probably cold due to environmental circumstances.

[bunsen_h]

The little we know about Elan and his mother tell us that relationship should be nice. But for the rest...

Do we know anything about Julia's relationships with her mother and with grandfather Horace?

[Peelee]

Do we know anything about Julia's relationships with her mother and with grandfather Horace?

We didn't know anything about Roy's relationship with them until he died and actively interacted with them, and he's the main character.

[hamishspence]

Horace died long before Roy was born, never mind Julia. So she won't have ever met him.

Roy described Julia as "spoiled rotten" to little Eric in the afterlife - this may have been by both parents - with both being overindulgent.

[Peelee]

Horace died long before Roy was born, never mind Julia. So she won't have ever met him.

Roy described Julia as "spoiled rotten" to little Eric in the afterlife - this may have been by both parents - with both being overindulgent.

Well, after a dead toddler, I can hardly say I blame them.

[KorvinStarmast]

I choose to believe that Bloodfeast wants Roy to snuggle with him so Boodfeast can get warmer. I find this is often the case with cute small animals that are probably cold due to environmental circumstances. That makes as much sense as anything else.


Roy described Julia as "spoiled rotten" to little Eric in the afterlife - this may have been by both parents - with both being overindulgent. And she is portrayed that way.

[InvisibleBison]

Given that this is the last book, Julia may be the "suitable vessel" that Sabine procured for the fiends back in strip 1183 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html). Her having much of any contact with Roy feels wildly out of character and the "school project" thing seems like too convenient of an excuse.

I feel obliged to point out that there's no reason to think the vessel is a person.

[Reboot]

I feel obliged to point out that there's no reason to think the vessel is a person.

"I wish to argue that none of you possibly have enough evidence to jump to this conclusion, but experience has taught me that only guarantees it to be the case. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1106.html)"

[Fyraltari]

"I wish to argue that none of you possibly have enough evidence to jump to this conclusion, but experience has taught me that only guarantees it to be the case. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1106.html)"

I swear if the Directors' plan end up involving a ship of some kind, I'm going to laugh so hard.

[Yendor]

I feel obliged to point out that there's no reason to think the vessel is a person.

Obviously, it's Serini's cauldron.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Long story short, he ended up having heirloom pants for his character.Was the character named Mr. Fancy pants/ Signore Magnifico Panatalone?

I feel obliged to point out that there's no reason to think the vessel is a person.I guess it would be funny it the evil demons were conspiring about Tupperware.

[Peelee]

Was the character named Mr. Fancy pants/ Signore Magnifico Panatalone?

No, it was normal character. The heirloom pants were come up with as we were starting as everything was set and the characters were meeting each other.

[Crimsonmantle]

I swear if the Directors' plan end up involving a ship of some kind, I'm going to laugh so hard.
Julia and Sabine? Not saying I ship it, but it does appear... shippable.

[pearl jam]

It's difficult to be certain one way or another.

Humans are quite adept at being extremely certain based on very little evidence at all. :smalltongue:

[mjasghar]

Tomato plants, I am guessing. :smallbiggrin:
People? Among dogs that would be "Roy is part of the pack" but I am not sure if Lizards have the same kind of social structure as dog packs. Apparently, most lizards tend to go solo; (https://www.livescience.com/56017-lizard-facts.html) With that said, Bloodfeast is a dinosaur, so maybe he's got some 'pack' instincts kind of like the small dinosaurs who ate the little girl in Jurassic Park.

Later, we learn InGen founder John Hammond's nephew, Peter Ludlow, has used the incident to yank control of the company away from his uncle, prompting Hammond to reach out to his old acquaintance, mathematician Ian Malcolm, for help. While explaining what happened, Hammond assures Malcolm that Cathy survived the attack and implies she didn't suffer any permanent physical injuries (though she's undoubtedly traumatized by the event).

[Peelee]

Later, we learn InGen founder John Hammond's nephew, Peter Ludlow, has used the incident to yank control of the company away from his uncle, prompting Hammond to reach out to his old acquaintance, mathematician Ian Malcolm, for help. While explaining what happened, Hammond assures Malcolm that Cathy survived the attack and implies she didn't suffer any permanent physical injuries (though she's undoubtedly traumatized by the event).

Which is patently ridiculous since Hammond and Malcolm died well after the little girl on the beach was attacked by the compys. :smalltongue:

[Vikenlugaid]

Later, we learn InGen founder John Hammond's nephew, Peter Ludlow, has used the incident to yank control of the company away from his uncle, prompting Hammond to reach out to his old acquaintance, mathematician Ian Malcolm, for help. While explaining what happened, Hammond assures Malcolm that Cathy survived the attack and implies she didn't suffer any permanent physical injuries (though she's undoubtedly traumatized by the event).
Well, that only happened in the movies.

[Kish]

Well, when making an account on the site, there is an "are you human" question. Which, I note with great displeasure, spambots frequently lie about. :smalltongue:
If you are a dragon, presumably you also lied about it when registering, so it seems unreasonable to complain.

[WanderingMist]

Which is patently ridiculous since Hammond and Malcolm died well after the little girl on the beach was attacked by the compys. :smalltongue:

I've never seen Jurassic Park outside one scene that traumatized me as a child (the part where the guy gets acid spit on him, I think, and the frilled lizard-looking things eat him? it's been a long time) which is why I've never bothered watching the rest, but aren't Compsognathus chicken-sized? Even a relatively small child should be able to fight them off.

[Ezekiel]

I've never seen Jurassic Park outside one scene that traumatized me as a child (the part where the guy gets acid spit on him, I think, and the frilled lizard-looking things eat him? it's been a long time) which is why I've never bothered watching the rest, but aren't Compsognathus chicken-sized? Even a relatively small child should be able to fight them off.

If I remember correctly from when I read the book, the Compys had a soporific bite.

[Ruck]

I've never seen Jurassic Park outside one scene that traumatized me as a child (the part where the guy gets acid spit on him, I think, and the frilled lizard-looking things eat him? it's been a long time) which is why I've never bothered watching the rest, but aren't Compsognathus chicken-sized? Even a relatively small child should be able to fight them off.


If I remember correctly from when I read the book, the Compys had a soporific bite.

And if I also remember correctly from when I read the book long ago, they tend to attack in packs.

[mjasghar]

Well, that only happened in the movies.

Yeah well ask George Lucas about that sort of stuff
In the end what’s on the screen is what’s cannon.

[Peelee]

If you are a dragon, presumably you also lied about it when registering, so it seems unreasonable to complain.
Assuming I said I was human, I see. :smalltongue:

I've never seen Jurassic Park outside one scene that traumatized me as a child (the part where the guy gets acid spit on him, I think, and the frilled lizard-looking things eat him? it's been a long time) which is why I've never bothered watching the rest, but aren't Compsognathus chicken-sized? Even a relatively small child should be able to fight them off.
Yes, they are roughly that size, but you're ignoring their strength and bites. Also in both the book and movie scenes they attack the girl as a pack.

If I remember correctly from when I read the book, the Compys had a soporific bite.
Yes. This is ignored in the second movie.

And if I also remember correctly from when I read the book long ago, they tend to attack in packs.
Yes. This is not addressed directly in the second movie but is still adhered to.

Yeah well ask George Lucas about that sort of stuff
In the end what’s on the screen is what’s cannon.
Lucas did not write Star Wars based on a book. Spielberg wrote Jurassic Park based on a book. It's not the same thing. There is novel canon and film canon for JP.

[hamishspence]

Also in both the book and movie scenes they attack the girl as a pack.

The baby slightly later in the book has several compys feeding on it, but the book description of the attack on the girl, only has one compy.


Tina held her breath. A new animal for her list! The lizard stood up on its hind legs, balancing on its thick tail, and stared at her. Standing like that, it was almost a foot tall, dark green with brown stripes along its back. Its tiny front legs ended in little lizard fingers that wiggled in the air. The lizard cocked its head as it looked at her.
Tina thought it was cute. Sort of like a big salamander. She raised her hand and wiggled her fingers back.
The lizard wasn’t frightened. It came toward her, walking upright on its hind legs. It was hardly bigger than a chicken, and like a chicken it bobbed its head as it walked. Tina thought it would make a wonderful pet.
She noticed that the lizard left three-toed tracks that looked exactly like bird tracks. The lizard came closer to Tina. She kept her body still, not wanting to frighten the little animal. She was amazed that it would come so close, but she remembered that this was a national park. All the animals in the park would know that they were protected. This lizard was probably tame. Maybe it even expected her to give it some food. Unfortunately she didn’t have any. Slowly, Tina extended her hand, palm open, to show she didn’t have any food.
The lizard paused, cocked his head, and chirped.
“Sorry,” Tina said. “I just don’t have anything.”
And then, without warning, the lizard jumped up onto her outstretched hand. Tina could feel its little toes pinching the skin of her palm, and she felt the surprising weight of the animal’s body pressing her arm down.
And then the lizard scrambled up her arm, toward her face.

...

“About those bites …”
“We have no identification yet,” the doctor said. “I myself haven’t seen bites like that before. But you’ll notice they are disappearing. It’s already quite difficult to make them out. Fortunately I have taken photographs for reference. And I have washed her arm to collect some samples of the sticky saliva—one for analysis here, a second to send to the labs in San José, and the third we will keep frozen in case it is needed. Do you have the picture she made?”
“Yes,” Mike Bowman said. He handed the doctor the sketch that Tina had drawn, in response to questions from the admitting officials.
“This is the animal that bit her?” Dr. Cruz said, looking at the picture.
“Yes,” Mike Bowman said. “She said it was a green lizard, the size of a chicken or a crow.”
“I don’t know of such a lizard,” the doctor said. “She has drawn it standing on its hind legs.…”
“That’s right,” Mike Bowman said. “She said it walked on its hind legs.”
Dr. Cruz frowned. He stared at the picture a while longer. “I am not an expert. I’ve asked for Dr. Guitierrez to visit us here. He is a senior researcher at the Reserva Biológica de Carara, which is across the bay. Perhaps he can identify the animal for us.”

[Fyraltari]

Lucas did not write Star Wars based on a book.

*Joseph Campbell shaking his fist from the grave* See, see!

[Peelee]

The baby slightly later in the book has several compys feeding on it, but the book description of the attack on the girl, only has one compy.Right, I conflate the girl and the baby. Oops.

*Joseph Campbell shaking his fist from the grave* See, see!
The hero's journey archetype is just a bit older than Campbell's analysis of it.

[Vikenlugaid]

Yeah well ask George Lucas about that sort of stuff
In the end what’s on the screen is what’s cannon.
Well, I mean in Michael Crichton book, the original Jurassic Park, the compis litterally ate a baby, the movies were family friendly.

[Peelee]

Well, I mean in Michael Crichton book, the original Jurassic Park, the compis litterally ate a baby, the movies were family friendly.


OK, try to imagine yourself in the Cretaceous Period. You get your first look at this "six foot turkey" as you enter a clearing. He moves like a bird, lightly, bobbing his head. And you keep still because you think that maybe his visual acuity is based on movement like T-Rex - he'll lose you if you don't move. But no, not Velociraptor. You stare at him, and he just stares right back. And that's when the attack comes. Not from the front, but from the side, *whoosh*, from the other two raptors you didn't even know were there. Because Velociraptor's a pack hunter, you see, he uses coordinated attack patterns and he is out in force today. And he slashes at you with this: a six-inch retractable claw, like a razor, on the the middle toe. He doesn't bother to bite your jugular like a lion, say... no no. He slashes at you here, or here, or maybe across the belly, spilling your intestines. The point is, you are alive when they start to eat you. So you know, try to show a little RESPECT.

I think we hang drastically different ideas of "family friendly".

[Quizatzhaderac]

I think we hang drastically different ideas of "family friendly".Adams family friendly.

[Vikenlugaid]

I think we hang drastically different ideas of "family friendly".

Well, "old school family friendly" 😇

[Peelee]

Well, "old school family friendly" 😇

The book is old school family friendly, then, since the baby's death is less gruesome than, say, Movie Gennaro's.

[KorvinStarmast]

Even a relatively small child should be able to fight them off. A ten year old girl is larger than a single pit bull. Do you expect her to survive the attack of two or three pit bulls at once?

And if I also remember correctly from when I read the book long ago, they tend to attack in packs. Yes.

Well, I mean in Michael Crichton book, the original Jurassic Park, the compis literally ate a baby And it may be that my brain was cross channeling both the original book and the movie ...

[JonahFalcon]

You'll stop laughing when Bloodfeast saves the universe. As a lizard.

[F.Harr]

Oh, no! Not the mean! It's just so . . . average!


You'll stop laughing when Bloodfeast saves the universe. As a lizard.

That would be cool.

[Vikenlugaid]

The book is old school family friendly, then, since the baby's death is less gruesome than, say, Movie Gennaro's.

First: I don't think the book was friendly at all, family or whatever, is a bit dense with all of that "science" talk.

Second: a baby being devoured by compis... There aren't many things more gruesome, and traumatizing, than that. Gennaro, poor old Gennaro, in the movie is basically a clown they want us to hate and even applaud his death (funny thing, in the book is maybe de most heroic character 😂 if I remember correctly he even fought a raptor)

[gbaji]

That's a nice little detail that Bloodfeast is stuck outside, because the only way past the magically summoned wall is through Sunny's antimagic cone, which would automatically revert him to his true form (and thus becoming too big for the hole). Well, someone could teleport him in and out, I guess, but they have limited ressources.

Or, just stick him in a bag of holding and walk into the room. No consumption of resources required for this. I'm assuming he's still outside purely because Belkar was already inside the room when the rest of the team arrived (and perhaps he's only willing to let Belkar pick him up and put him in a bag, or they didn't bother to try). Since then, Belkar has been busy talking down Serini, then in the staff meeting (and Sunny wasn't available to open the door then anyway), and now preppping food for the whole group.

But yeah, it's little details like this that make the strip much more realistic. He's outside because it would take extra effort to get him inside. I'm sure there's no significant story point to be made here at all (or is there....).

I also do think Roy is being quite a bit down on himself and the team here. While it makes for a funny joke, the reality is that they have accomplished quite a bit. Setting aside the "lost and then found" paladins, they met up with and recruited (kinda) Serini to their cause. They have much more knowledge about the tomb and its makeup than they did before (more than Team Evil has gained in quite a bit more time, in fact). And have picked up significant resources to aid them (Sunny's abilities are not minor things given who they are fighting against).

I'd say that they have made a huge amount of progress here. Not all progress is measured in "foes defeated".

[Jacky720]

(funny thing, in the book is maybe de most heroic character 😂 if I remember correctly he even fought a raptor)

He's definitely better in the book, but as I remember, Grant was basically forcing him to help enter the raptor nest by the end. Something about taking responsibility.

Besides, Muldoon was way cooler. Oversized tranq darts to go T-Rex hunting, because Hammond wouldn't give him rocket launchers. Getting stuck in a pipe surrounded by raptors and escaping.

[Peelee]

First: I don't think the book was friendly at all, family or whatever, is a bit dense with all of that "science" talk.

Second: a baby being devoured by compis... There aren't many things more gruesome, and traumatizing, than that. Gennaro, poor old Gennaro, in the movie is basically a clown they want us to hate and even applaud his death (funny thing, in the book is maybe de most heroic character 😂 if I remember correctly he even fought a raptor)

Except the book doesn't describe the baby being devoured. It doesn't detail much of anything except that there were compiles in its crib/bed and that it was dead. As far as "dead baby" goes, it's about as tame as can be.

Movie Gennaro is shown being eaten alive.

Also, yeah, boom Gennaro was pretty damned heroic. Regis was the coward. Im sad they combined the two in the movie into a single character and robbed Gennaro of his badassery.

He's definitely better in the book, but as I remember, Grant was basically forcing him to help enter the raptor nest by the end. Something about taking responsibility.

Besides, Muldoon was way cooler. Oversized tranq darts to go T-Rex hunting, because Hammond wouldn't give him rocket launchers. Getting stuck in a pipe surrounded by raptors and escaping.
A.) imagine someone telling you its totally cool to go into the Well of Souls without the torches clearing out a lath for you, it's fine, you'll be alright. You're gonna be pretty damned hesitant.
2.) Muldoon was a game warden and IIRC former military. Gennaro was a lawyer. No knock against Muldoon, he was the most competent person on the island, but Gennaro went above and beyond what could have been expected of him.

[bunsen_h]

You'll stop laughing when Bloodfeast saves the universe. As a lizard.

If he and Mr. Scruffy are in some kind of competition as animal companions, he's got a big lead to overcome (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1130.html).

[WanderingMist]

A ten year old girl is larger than a single pit bull. Do you expect her to survive the attack of two or three pit bulls at once?


No, because pitbulls are much larger, and more importantly heavier, than chickens (Chicken: 6 lbs, Pit bull: 35-60 pounds). A 10-year-old child could definitely take on an entire flock of chickens or chicken-sized lizards.

[KorvinStarmast]

No, because pitbulls are much l It's not the size, it's the savagery.

You'll stop laughing when Bloodfeast saves the universe. As a lizard. Works for me.

[dmc91356]

No, because pitbulls are much larger, and more importantly heavier, than chickens (Chicken: 6 lbs, Pit bull: 35-60 pounds). A 10-year-old child could definitely take on an entire flock of chickens or chicken-sized lizards.

Yeah, I'm a gonna have to disagree with you there unless the flock of chickens involves exactly zero roosters. A few roosters are going to seriously mess up a 10 year old kid unless that kid is wearing full plate mail from head to toe.

[danielxcutter]

Also, even adults attacked by rabid chickens are not necessarily going to react rationally. Kids... yeah, no.

[WanderingMist]

Yeah, I'm a gonna have to disagree with you there unless the flock of chickens involves exactly zero roosters. A few roosters are going to seriously mess up a 10 year old kid unless that kid is wearing full plate mail from head to toe.

I grew up around chickens, including roosters, so I'm speaking from personal experience when I say a 10-year-old child could easily take them.

[No good @ names]

A 10-year-old child could definitely take on an entire flock of chickens

Nah mate those cuccos are the devil incarnate.

[Peelee]

Nah mate those cuccos are the devil incarnate.

Well then stop hitting them with your sword!

[BloodSquirrel]

I'm going to point out here that:

A) Yes, a 10-year old could easily defeat a rooster if he goes in with the intention to just kick the thing

B) You can find videos on the internet of house cats scaring full-grown bears away from their houses. Animals (including humans) tend to panic when confronted with an aggressive animal- even if it's much smaller than they are- in unfamiliar situations/environments.

C) There's a big difference between a pack hunter and a herbivore/insect-eating animal, regardless of weight. Pack hunters (like dogs) are really, really good at hunting animals that are otherwise out of their weight class. A dog versus a similarly sized cat is usually an easy win for the cat, but five house cats aren't going to take down a prey animal larger than they are, while the dogs can.

[brian 333]

I'm going to point out here that:

A) Yes, a 10-year old could easily defeat a rooster if he goes in with the intention to just kick the thing

B) You can find videos on the internet of house cats scaring full-grown bears away from their houses. Animals (including humans) tend to panic when confronted with an aggressive animal- even if it's much smaller than they are- in unfamiliar situations/environments.

C) There's a big difference between a pack hunter and a herbivore/insect-eating animal, regardless of weight. Pack hunters (like dogs) are really, really good at hunting animals that are otherwise out of their weight class. A dog versus a similarly sized cat is usually an easy win for the cat, but five house cats aren't going to take down a prey animal larger than they are, while the dogs can.

This can be connected back to the comic when we realize that The OotS is a pack animal hunting Xykon. If they could just separate him from his herd...

[Fyraltari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcohTnnPlDM

[Vikenlugaid]

I grew up around chickens, including roosters, so I'm speaking from personal experience when I say a 10-year-old child could easily take them.
I doubt those chickens wanted to eat you.

[Peelee]

I doubt those chickens wanted to eat you.

Yeah. The question isn't "could a child fend off multiple chickens?" The question is "could a child fend off multiple dinosaurs roughly the size of chickens?" Actual experience with chickens is irrelevant.

[Vikenlugaid]

Yeah. The question isn't "could a child fend off multiple chickens?" The question is "could a child fend off multiple dinosaurs roughly the size of chickens?" Actual experience with chickens is irrelevant.

Or even more simple "could a child keep calm enough to defense themself while multiple chicken size dinosaurs are trying to eat them?"

[arimareiji]

Somehow I'm reminded of the manga where the protagonist is being mentored by someone who is comparing his fighting power (500) to the antagonist (3000) and various other standards like a tank (200) or a cat (0.5). Which led to the fan joke that if he picked a fight with them, he might suffer "death by a thousand cats".

[Jacky720]

Beware of the action economy.

[brian 333]

A chicken is a very weak animal, bred more for tasty than survival.

Pit bulls were bred to deal with hogs and cattle one on one.

There is a huge difference in muscle and bone density between the two. While we can speculate on muscle density in compeys, it is only speculation. Bone density, though, is much higher than in chickens. Speculatively assume a similar increase in muscle density, and you now have a chicken as powerful as a beagle, with sharp gripping teeth and a pack-predator mentality.

Humans, on the other hand, have crappy muscle density. A human is less than a third the strength of a similarly sized chimpanzee. Compey vs. kid? A solitary but determined compey is a fair fight that could go either way. Two or more, and it's a bad day for the human.

Now give the kid a stick and some rocks, and a survivor mentality? It's a good day for compey soup!

Except the acid spit. I hope the kid's wearing glasses.

[Peelee]

A chicken is a very weak animal, bred more for tasty than survival.

Pit bulls were bred to deal with hogs and cattle one on one.

There is a huge difference in muscle and bone density between the two. While we can speculate on muscle density in compeys, it is only speculation. Bone density, though, is much higher than in chickens. Speculatively assume a similar increase in muscle density, and you now have a chicken as powerful as a beagle, with sharp gripping teeth and a pack-predator mentality.

Humans, on the other hand, have crappy muscle density. A human is less than a third the strength of a similarly sized chimpanzee. Compey vs. kid? A solitary but determined compey is a fair fight that could go either way. Two or more, and it's a bad day for the human.

Now give the kid a stick and some rocks, and a survivor mentality? It's a good day for compey soup!

Except the acid spit. I hope the kid's wearing glasses.
A.) Wild chickens exist.
2.) Adults tried the throwing rocks at compies in both Jurassic Park novel and Lost World film. Neither time did it work. And that assumed the child would even be able to hit the creatures - they are small and agile.
iii.) Compies don't have acid spit. That was dilophosaur.

[brian 333]

Rock is not for throwing, is for using in hand when a compey gets past the stick.

Correction: last rock is for hand, may as well throw and hope for luck as many times as you can.

[pearl jam]

Description[edit]

Life restoration
Procompsognathus may have been about 1 metre (3.3 ft) long,[7] though Fraas in 1913 estimated a length of 75 cm (2.5 ft). In 2010 Gregory S. Paul gave an estimate of 1 kilogram (2.2 lb) for the weight with a length of 1.1 metres (3.6 ft).[8] In 2016, the holotype gained estimates of 1.3 kg and 28 cm in height at the hips.[9] A biped, Procompsognathus had long hind legs, short arms, large clawed hands, a long slender snout with many small teeth, and a stiff tail. The femur discovered for the type specimen of this genus measures 93mm and the tibia, 112mm. The tibia is approximately 20% longer than the femur in Procompsognathus, an adaptation which has been strongly correlated with the development of cursorial habits in dinosaurs, suggesting that they were good runners.[10]


Compys are estimated to weigh 2 to 3 lbs, though there is only one known fossil specimen so we don't really know all that much about them. The soporific venom in the bite is likely fictitious. The answer to whether or not a 10 year-old could fend them off is obviously, "Yes," but the how likely that outcome is would depend on a variety of factors that would vary from encounter to encounter. I'm not sure there's evidence one way or the other about whether or not they hunted in packs, either, given the very minimal fossil record.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Velociraptor_size.png/2880px-Velociraptor_size.png

Setting aside that the caption (which was apparently not included in the image) states 1.8 meters is 5'9" when it's about 3 millimeters shy of 5'11", a child's chances to fend off a velociraptor (estimated 30~40 pounds for an adult) would be a lot lower, though still conceivable under the right circumstances. Still, even most adults would be in trouble depending on how many there are and how aware they were of the threat.


Rock is not for throwing, is for using in hand when a compey gets past the stick.

Correction: last rock is for hand, may as well throw and hope for luck as many times as you can.

Unless you are assuming they have the opportunity to prepare for the encounter, this level of tactical consideration seems unlikely for a child and probably most adults, too, without some kind of training to make it more reflexive.

[Peelee]

velociraptor

The animal Jurassic Park calls "velociraptor" is pretty much the Utahraptor deinonychus, I'm guessing "utahraptor deinonychus" wasn't as impressive a name for Crichton.

[hamishspence]

The palaeontologist (Gregory S. Paul) whose writings Crichton was using as a starting point for how to portray the animals, was a "lumper" who thought the two genera (Deinonychus and Velociraptor) ought to be merged.

As it is, it was commented by another palaeontologist (Robert Bakker) that the JP animals were somewhat oversized even when compared to Deinonychus - with Utahraptor's discovery validating the decision to portray them that big - "Some dromeosaurids really do get that large".

[a_flemish_guy]

Compys are estimated to weigh 2 to 3 lbs, though there is only one known fossil specimen so we don't really know all that much about them. The soporific venom in the bite is likely fictitious. The answer to whether or not a 10 year-old could fend them off is obviously, "Yes," but the how likely that outcome is would depend on a variety of factors that would vary from encounter to encounter. I'm not sure there's evidence one way or the other about whether or not they hunted in packs, either, given the very minimal fossil record.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Velociraptor_size.png/2880px-Velociraptor_size.png

Setting aside that the caption (which was apparently not included in the image) states 1.8 meters is 5'9" when it's about 3 millimeters shy of 5'11", a child's chances to fend off a velociraptor (estimated 30~40 pounds for an adult) would be a lot lower, though still conceivable under the right circumstances. Still, even most adults would be in trouble depending on how many there are and how aware they were of the threat.



Unless you are assuming they have the opportunity to prepare for the encounter, this level of tactical consideration seems unlikely for a child and probably most adults, too, without some kind of training to make it more reflexive.

don't forget the claw, fighting roosters (which are equiped with a long metal spore) have killed their handlers before due to them hitting an artery and they where just trying to defend themselves, not purposfully attacking like a velicoraptor would

[Quizatzhaderac]

Questions to ask before fighting a chicken like creature:


Domestic or wild?
Rooster or Hen?
Incetivore or pack hunter?
Is it armed?
Are you ten years old?
Do you have a stick?
Do you have access to rocks?
Does it know Kung Fu, if so which kind? Penny-arcade (https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/06/15/hes-the-dude-whos-chinese-food)universe, Dreamworks, or Fantavision (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12103836/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0)?
Does it have a revenge flock (https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Cucco)?

[Coppercloud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcohTnnPlDM
That's no ordinary chicken! That's the foulest, cruel, and bad-tempered poultry you ever set eyes on ; look at the bones!
Or you could just throw it behind enemy lines to create confusion.

[bunsen_h]

Questions to ask before fighting a chicken like creature:


Domestic or wild?
Rooster or Hen?
Incetivore or pack hunter?
Is it armed?
Are you ten years old?
Do you have a stick?
Do you have access to rocks?
Does it know Kung Fu, if so which kind? Penny-arcade (https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/06/15/hes-the-dude-whos-chinese-food)universe, Dreamworks, or Fantavision (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12103836/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0)?
Does it have a revenge flock (https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Cucco)?


J. How is it (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chicken_run) armed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Invaders)?

[Peelee]

J. How is it (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chicken_run) armed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Invaders)?

How else (https://www.reddit.com/r/birdswitharms/)?

Also that RT audience score in Chicken Run is a crime.

[bunsen_h]

How else (https://www.reddit.com/r/birdswitharms/)?

Not to forget the climax of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5s5qGg01nE).


Also that RT audience score in Chicken Run is a crime.

I find it bizarre. I wonder if it might be due, in part, to Mel Gibson's controversies.

[WanderingMist]

I doubt those chickens wanted to eat you.
They certainly tried when I had to get their eggs from under them, or when they thought I had food.

Somehow I'm reminded of the manga where the protagonist is being mentored by someone who is comparing his fighting power (500) to the antagonist (3000) and various other standards like a tank (200) or a cat (0.5). Which led to the fan joke that if he picked a fight with them, he might suffer "death by a thousand cats".

That's Negima, and not a fan joke. It's what Negi immediately thinks of upon seeing the chart.

[Kornaki]

That's Negima, and not a fan joke. It's what Negi immediately thinks of upon seeing the chart.

I'm fairly confident 400 cats vs a tank is resolved in the tank's favor, so he's probably fine against a thousand cats.

[Beni-Kujaku]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcohTnnPlDM

You know almost nobody here will understand a word, right ? ^^ But I can appreciate a good reference.

[Fyraltari]

You know almost nobody here will understand a word, right ? ^^ But I can appreciate a good reference.

Sometimes, it's about quality rather than quantity.

[littlebum2002]

Yeah. The question isn't "could a child fend off multiple chickens?" The question is "could a child fend off multiple dinosaurs roughly the size of chickens?" Actual experience with chickens is irrelevant.

But a chicken IS a dinosaur the size of a chicken.


Birds are feathered theropod dinosaurs and constitute the only known living dinosaurs. Likewise, birds are considered reptiles in the modern cladistic sense of the term, and their closest living relatives are the crocodilians. Birds are descendants of the primitive avialans (whose members include Archaeopteryx) which first appeared about 160 million years ago (mya) in China. According to DNA evidence, modern birds (Neornithes) evolved in the Middle to Late Cretaceous, and diversified dramatically around the time of the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event 66 mya, which killed off the pterosaurs and all non-avian dinosaurs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird

[WanderingMist]

Questions to ask before fighting a chicken-like creature:


Domestic or wild?
Rooster or Hen?
Insectivore or pack hunter?
Is it armed?
Are you ten years old?
Do you have a stick?
Do you have access to rocks?
Does it know Kung Fu, if so which kind? Penny-arcade (https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/06/15/hes-the-dude-whos-chinese-food)universe, Dreamworks, or Fantavision (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12103836/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0)?
Does it have a revenge flock (https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Cucco)?


If that chicken-like creature's name is Poyo, here are the answers:


Domestic
Rooster
Solitary obligate carnivore
He doesn't need to be
No
That won't help
Neither will those
Yes, and many other martial arts
He doesn't need one, he once took over Hell

[KorvinStarmast]

J. How is it (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chicken_run) armed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Invaders)? Chickens don't have arms, they have wings. :smallsmile:

[brian 333]

Chickens don't have arms, they have wings. :smallsmile:

Buffalo have wings. Everyone knows chickens can't fly.

[Peelee]

Buffalo have wings. Everyone knows chickens can't fly.

Sure they can, you just need to give them a proper aircraft/house combination. Haven't you heard of chickens that flew the coop?

[brian 333]

Sure they can, you just need to give them a proper aircraft/house combination. Haven't you heard of chickens that flew the coop?

If that analogy holds, then humans can fly.

Oh, it makes sense now! Chickens have thumbs, I have thumbs! If you have thumbs you can fly without wings!

[Doug Lampert]

Buffalo have wings. Everyone knows chickens can't fly.

Obligatory OotS reference (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html). (I know it's pretty late in the discussion thread to actually bring up the comic, my applogies, I just couldn't resist).

[Quizatzhaderac]

Chickens don't have arms, they have wings. :smallsmile:You could have spent two seconds researching (https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+with+arms&hl=en&tbm=isch) that claim...

[Vikenlugaid]

First of all, something really important
Well then stop hitting them with your sword!
None is hitting them with their sword, but with a sword they found in the middle of a forest.


And second... Nah, i don't really have anything more to say.

[Peelee]

First of all, something really important
None is hitting them with their sword, but with a sword they found in the middle of a forest.


And second... Nah, i don't really have anything more to say.

There's something to be said about possession and the law....

[bunsen_h]

There's something to be said about possession and the law....

I don't think that dealing with possessed entities (or possessing entities) is affected by that alignment axis..?

[Quizatzhaderac]

There's something to be said about possession and the law....You can't see nine tenths of it, because it's possessed by a iceberg-ghost?

[arimareiji]

Somehow I'm reminded of the manga where the protagonist is being mentored by someone who is comparing his fighting power (500) to the antagonist (3000) and various other standards like a tank (200) or a cat (0.5). Which led to the fan joke that if he picked a fight with them, he might suffer "death by a thousand cats".


That's Negima, and not a fan joke. It's what Negi immediately thinks of upon seeing the chart.

Thank you for getting me to chase this down - that was the same thing I thought I remembered, but I wanted to verify. When I didn't immediately find it right after that scene, I mistakenly assumed I was only mis-remembering a fan joke.

But when I kept looking just now, I found where Negi does think this two chapters later (204) while he's getting depressed thanks to Rakan's misguided "darkness" training. But not with the same wording, at least not in the version I'm looking at... so it seems like the pun I invoked is probably a fan joke after all. (He imagines being swarmed by cats, then imagines himself knocked out in a ring by a cat-person labeled "Embodiment of 1001 Cats".)

[Kancsar]

Fewer posts than usual??

Reckon we’re 1/3 done with the the final book. Feels like Giant is getting in all the “quiet moment” conversations he needs so he can get on with the build to the series climax. Will be interesting to see how the blood oath plays into the story resolution (“dial a friend” for magical advice at a critical moment, perhaps when V is off the board?)

[TheNecrocomicon]

I mean, when it's been a solid whole month since the last strip came out (pretty much precisely; see The Giant's Twitter), of course a thread and the subforum as a whole are going to die down and have fewer posts/comments than usual. There was also Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and the western New Year in there too which probably took people's attention away from here and it just hasn't built back up yet.

If the strips were being published more frequently, it would beget more buzz and more activity on the forums. That's not to criticize the author and however many priorities he must be juggling right now; it just is what it is.

Major arcs I'm aware of since the start of this book include Durkon and Minrah's attempted-diplomacy-turned-confrontation with Redcloak, then the flight into the dungeon and the reveal of and battle with Serini and her allies. Still absolutely nothing about whatever new villainy is planned by the IFCC which will probably turn everything on its head into an absolute mess.

Somewhere, I remember The Giant commenting that this book could be significantly larger than any of the others, if that's what it takes for the story to reach a satisfactory and narratively cohesive conclusion. Maybe it'll be the approximate length of the last two; who knows. All I know is that there's still more than enough still up in the air and waiting to hit the fan that it could very plausibly be multiple hundred strips yet to go.

[danielxcutter]

Also yeah, the holidays take up a lot of attention.

[Kish]

What Rich said was that there would be seven (main plot) books, no more, whatever length the final book turned out to be.

We are probably approximately 1/3 of the way through the final book, yes.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Narratively this just doesn't feel like "one-third" of the way through the book to me.

We still need to deal with whatever attempted confrontation between the Order and Team Evil is going to ensue, plus the IFCC need to make themselves and their plan known, which is going to completely blindside and upend everyone else, and there's whatever other factions still to show up and factor into all this, then resolve that whole trainwreck, then probably some real final showdown of the Order vs. Xykon, then there's going to be whatever other denouement strips showing how things evolve towards a hopefully better future, and whatever other curveballs and side-quest-y things get thrown into the mix along the way.

It took more than eighty strips of this book already to arrive in the north, try negotiating with Redcloak, run like hell when that went south, fight Serini alone (well, plus her allies, but she was the only character with levels), reunite with the paladins and now be partway through a conversation. Yes, I know narrative structure indicates things will get exponentially denser and wackier until it's climax time, but there's no way in my estimation that that constitutes "one-third" of the plot of the whole book. We're going to be at this for a long time yet.

[WookieBush]

We're going to be at this for a long time yet.

This is what worries me. We've been in this book for almost 3 years and we're not even 1/3 done yet. I've been a fan for a very long time but the prospect of having to wait 6+ more years just to get the end of the story makes me want to just take this site off my bookmarks and forget about it until I happen to remember a decade later

[KorvinStarmast]

The IFCC reveal (whatever their artifact is) and the "V is gone for chapter 2 of time out" are looming.

The deal Xykon cut with the modron boss will probably manifest its impact in the near term.

[Quizatzhaderac]

What Rich said was that there would be seven (main plot) books, no more, whatever length the final book turned out to be.

We are probably approximately 1/3 of the way through the final book, yes.He said it might turn out to be as big as a phone book.

That is obviously an exaggeration, but I've seen many webcomic artists realize years in the "the last part" is actually most of their story. For an extreme example, Homestuck was planned in a five act structure; acts 1-4 are 25% of the story; so far.

Yes, I know narrative structure indicates things will get exponentially denser and wackier until it's climax time, but there's no way in my estimation that that constitutes "one-third" of the plot of the whole book. We're going to be at this for a long time yet.While it should feel like a lot is unresolved for the emotional climax, a calm counting of plot points should have most plot points done be the emotional climax, but with a few very important plot points to resolve there.

Consider the emotional climax of Star wars: how many unresolved plot point were there? We really just need to know if Luke can blow up the death star.

The complexity climax happened during BRitF, but we still need to have fewer pieces on the board before the emotional climax.

[littlebum2002]

He said it might turn out to be as big as a phone book.

That is obviously an exaggeration, but I've seen many webcomic artists realize years in the "the last part" is actually most of their story. For an extreme example, Homestuck was planned in a five act structure; acts 1-4 are 25% of the story; so far.
While it should feel like a lot is unresolved for the emotional climax, a calm counting of plot points should have most plot points done be the emotional climax, but with a few very important plot points to resolve there.


Yeah I don't think it will be that long but I also don't see any way in which this isn't the biggest book, by far. The biggest as of now is BRitF which was 274 online strips. If this last book were only that long we would be be pretty much exactly 1/3rd of the way through it; so I think it's safe to say we're probably more like 1/4 of the way through this book, at best.

[brian 333]

I have the feeling that when the sticks begin to fall, they will fall fast and hard.

And I have a lot of confidence of The Author to produce exactly the climax he has been working toward for twenty years.

Am I alone in hoping the denouement takes another 20 years to tell?

[KorvinStarmast]

Am I alone in hoping the denouement takes another 20 years to tell? Yes. (I think). Part of a story is that it has an end.

[brian 333]

Yes. (I think). Part of a story is that it has an end.

I wish E.R. Burroughs had known that when he was writing about John Carter. Or Tarzan.

[Kish]

That is obviously an exaggeration, but I've seen many webcomic artists realize years in the "the last part" is actually most of their story.
Rich is unusual for a webcomic artist, in that he had a plot outline for a seven-book epic by strip #100 which he has stuck to ever since then.

That being the case, I do not think other webcomics are a good comparison, especially not Homestuck. I would also point out that the last book, Utterly Dwarfed, is shorter than the one before it; the general trend is upward but there is no constant ballooning as with certain other serieses by certain other authors who desperately needed more editing.

But we'll see. In approximately two thousand strips, one way or another.

[KorvinStarmast]

But we'll see. In approximately two thousand strips, one way or another.
I think you meant two hundred strips there, if you were estimating how soon Book VII closes out.

[Peelee]

I think you meant two hundred strips there, if you were estimating how soon Book VII closes out.

I'm assuming Kish pegged 2/3rds as a fair baseline for "most of the story", which means 2000 strips is roughly accurate.

[Kish]

Indeed. Also, huh? Why would you think I meant 200 when I said 2000? If the story ends THAT fast it'll be shorter than any book since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, and if you want to bet on it being the shortest book of all you can do it without me. :smallyuk:

[KorvinStarmast]

Indeed. Also, huh? Why would you think I meant 200
200 remaining, is how I took your post.
There are 1270+ now out of six and a fraction volumes. We are part way through volume 7. Vol 6 ended up with 1189... so 250 more or so ends the seven volume at less than 1500 ish and if Rich goes all phone book 1600 ish.
Not 2000.
2000 is a bit of an oversell.
I do not count any of the non-on-line strips in that number.

@Peelee
Your numerancy is suspect. If the series is 6/7ths completed with published books at 1189, and we are into a portion of the last seventh at 1272, I don't see how you get a fraction of that seventh getting you from 1189 to 1272 to 2000.

1272 is the current progress to date (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1272.html)

[Peelee]

200 remaining, is how I took your post.
There are 1270+ now out of six and a fraction volumes. We are part way through volume 7. Vol 6 ended up with 1189... so 250 more or so ends the seven volume at less than 1500 ish and if Rich goes all phone book 1600 ish.
Not 2000.
2000 is a bit of an oversell.
I do not count any of the non-on-line strips in that number.

@Peelee
Your numerancy is suspect. If the series is 6/7ths completed with published books at 1189, and we are into a portion of the last seventh at 1272, I don't see how you get a fraction of that seventh getting you from 1189 to 1272 to 2000.

1272 is the current progress to date (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1272.html)

The numbers were in response to the last part of a story ending up as most of the story (which was also admittedly embellished but still, there's the contrxt). Prior six books are about a thousand strips. For the last part of the story (ie the final book) to be "most of the story" (eg two thirds of the story), that would make the final book about two thousand strips.

The math seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Kish]

The answer is actually that I was looking at panels in the strips count thread.

200 pages (which may be a smaller number of strips), yes.

[KorvinStarmast]

The answer is actually that I was looking at panels in the strips count thread.

200 pages (which may be a smaller number of strips), yes. OK, I better understand where you were coming from, thanks.

[Blueshirt616]

"The jokes write themselves"
"Apparently, they do not"
I can think of a few jokes about someone choosing a Longsword rather than a Broadsword.