pathfinder unarmed damage help me understand these feats

[samduke]

Level 12 Small Monk, I take all of the related feats below.
Ascetic Strike: You can use the unarmed strike damage of a monk 4 levels lower than your character level

Does this make the UAS 1d8? if not please help me understand the benefit of this feat chain

Monk
Table: Small Monk Unarmed Damage
Level Damage (Small monk)
1st–3rd 1d4
4th–7th 1d6
8th–11th 1d8
12th–15th 1d10



Ascetic Style (Unarmed Strike)
Prerequisite(s): Weapon Focus with the chosen melee weapon; base attack bonus +1 or monk level 1st.
Benefit(s): Choose one weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.
Special: A 5th-level monk or character with the weapon training (monk) class feature can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon, in addition to the chosen melee weapon.

Ascetic Form
Prerequisite(s): Ascetic Style; Weapon Focus with the chosen melee weapon; base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.
Benefit(s): You can use the chosen melee weapon with any class ability that can be used with an unarmed strike, such as an unchained monk’s style strike ability. In addition, you are treated as a monk with a level equal to your character level for the purpose of determining the number of times per day that you can use feats with uses per day that depend upon your monk level, such as the Stunning Fist or Perfect Strike feats.

Ascetic Strike
Prerequisite(s): Ascetic Form; Ascetic Style; Weapon Focus with the chosen weapon; base attack bonus +7 or monk level 7th.
Benefit(s): You can use the unarmed strike damage of a monk 4 levels lower than your character level (minimum 1st) instead of the base damage for the chosen weapon. Ascetic Strike functions in all other ways as the brawler’s close weapon mastery class feature.
In addition, you ignore the still mind class feature prerequisite for the Monastic Legacy feat.

Monastic Legacy
Prerequisite: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features.

[Gruftzwerg]

I don't play much PF, so take my opinion with care..^^
Ascetic Strike itself seems to be best used on a character with only a dip into monk.

E.g. a "monk 1 / xxx 11" would have the unarmed damage of a 8th lvl monk.

[samduke]

I don't play much PF, so take my opinion with care..^^
Ascetic Strike itself seems to be best used on a character with only a dip into monk.

E.g. a "monk 1 / xxx 11" would have the unarmed damage of a 8th lvl monk.

right still trying to get that bolded underlined portion figured out how it relates to future levels that are not monk

[ciopo]

In short

Ascetic style : you can use stunning fist with your (insert weapon here)

Ascetic form : feats that are MONKLEVEL/day uses are now CHARLEVEL/day uses.

Ascetic strike : with (insert weapon here) you can do IUS damage instead of weapon damage (at CHARLEVEL-4 values)

Monastic blabla has no direct relation with ascetic style/form/strike. It does jo interaction at all with ascetic strike, it only changes stuff around for unarmed strike

These are all "mostly" useless for a single class monk, the only use is if you want to do monk stuff of all sort with this or that weapon instead of with your punches, example flurry of blows with a dagger for the 19-20 crit range


For you specifically, as a pure class monk:
Monastic legacy does nothing, your unarmed strike is already at 1d10
If you wield any of the monk weapons, they do 1d8 damage for you, and you can do everything that you can do with unarmed strike with them, such as flurry, stunning strike, etc

[Kurald Galain]

Does this make the UAS 1d8? if not please help me understand the benefit of this feat chain
The benefit is (1) for multiclassed monks to count as a full monk, or (2) to use a low-damage monk weapon (other than IUS) and use your IUS damage for that. It is of zero benefit to a full-classed monk who uses unarmed strikes.

[KillianHawkeye]

This lets you benefit from using a monk weapon like a kama or nunchaku, that has certain weapon bonuses (to trip and disarm for example), and still do better damage (1d8 instead of a d4 or whatever small kama and nunchaku gets). Or to just use a magical version of the weapon, and have a better base damage die.

[samduke]

okay so the feats would allow a multiclass low level monk with something like a Cestus Damage 1d3 (small), 1d4 (medium)
actual do the unarms strike damage of X 1d8 or 2d6 where ever its monk level ends up at.


would Feral Combat Training (Unarmed Strike) be better than Ascetic Style (Unarmed Strike) ? they seem to do more or less the same thing

[KillianHawkeye]

So Ascetic Style works for one weapon from the monk weapon group, from Fighter's weapon training weapon groups (unless you're a 5th level Monk). It also leads to other feats. And it's a fighting style, which you can usually only use one of at a time.

Feral Combat Training does the same thing for one of your natural weapons, and also lets you use your natural weapon when you flurry, if you're also a Monk.

Choose whichever one you need? You're probably either using a monk-style weapon as a Fighter, or using a natural weapon, but not both.


EDIT: Taking Feral Combat Training for your unarmed strike does nothing. It's meant for a real natural weapon (claw, bite, etc.). You unarmed strike already counts as an unarmed strike for the purpose of using feats.

Feral Combat Training lets you, for example, use Stunning Fist with your claw attack rather than your unarmed strike.

[Maat Mons]

Ascetic Strike says, “Ascetic Strike functions in all other ways as the brawler’s close weapon mastery class feature.” Close Weapon Mastery says, “If the weapon normally deals more damage than this, its damage is unchanged.” Unarmed Strike is a silly weapon to pick for Ascetic Strike, but I don’t believe your damage would decrease for doing so.

Tangentially, Ascetic Strike doesn’t seem very good to me. It’s a four-feat investment to, at best, bump a 1d4 up to 2d8. That’s +6.5 damage on average. If feel that four feats should get you more than that.

[ciopo]

.. I got a stupid question about ascetic style...

... does it let you apply the bonuses from an amulet of mighty fist / amulet of natural attacks / other items that enhance improved unarmed strike, to your monk weapon of choice?

the bit about " as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike" makes me think the answer is yes?

so... hypothetically, with ascetic style

your monk weapon of choice, at +1 and (1 to 4 weapon properties) at the relative cost of +2/+5
amulet of mighty fist with +1 to +5 weapon properties , at the relative cost of +1-+5, it specificalyl says it doesn't need to be +1
+1 handwraps and (1 to 4) weapon properties at the relative cost of +2/+5
end result of your weapon being +1 and having up to 13 weapon properties equivalent at the cheap cost of +5*3 rather than +15??

I think I know what I'm doing next if I die again! this sounds cool beans


.. if it works, mayhaps I'm making an assumption that don't hold up

[Drelua]

Tangentially, Ascetic Strike doesn’t seem very good to me. It’s a four-feat investment to, at best, bump a 1d4 up to 2d8. That’s +6.5 damage on average. If feel that four feats should get you more than that.

Not that it changes your point in any meaningful way, but out of curiosity, if you were a level 19 Monk (edit: level 19 character I guess, though I'm not sure the monk's robe would interact the same way if you weren't an actual monk) with a monk's robe, you'd have an effective monk level of 24, so your monk level would be 20 for the purpose of this feat, so you could maybe do 2d10? Except the feat says:

unarmed strike damage of a monk 4 levels lower than your character level
Character level, not monk level, so I'm not sure there's any interaction with a monk's robe. Then again, it is kind of an effect that augments an unarmed strike, so I'm leaning towards saying it would work. Still, not great whether it's 6.5 or 8.5 damage for 4 feats, or maybe as much as 9 if you're using a monk weapon that does a d3, like the chain from a kusarigama. Although if it does stack, and you get a collision weapon and enlarge person cast on you, you could do what, 6d8 damage? Compared to an earth breaker, which would get bumped from 2d6 to 4d6, which is average 14 vs 27, so 13 damage is... something. Not bad for a weapon with reach, trip, and grapple. Might be worthwhile, if ciopo's idea works. Of course, that's a lot of work to save this feat chain.