Misty step from the feytouched feat, does that count as a spell cast in a round?

[dehro]

a debate from an instance in a campaign I play in...

Player has the fey touched feat that gives him Misty step as a daily. The feat reads as follows:

"You learn the misty step spell and one 1st-level divination/enchantment spell of your choice and can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot, recharging on a long rest."

so.. the question was asked "since I don't expend the magical resource (the spell slot), does this mean that I can cast misty step as a bonus spell and also cast another spell as an action, or does it still count as casting a spell, limiting my possibilities to casting a cantrip?

The DM ruled that he would allow this fringe case to not count against the multiple spells per round, limitation rule, and allowed the player to both misty step and cast a levelled spell.

I personally think that's not the rules legal call to make, because the misty step, in it's nature, is and remains a levelled spell, even when you cast it for free because of a feat... but I do respect the DM call..

That said, has this case (namely a spell obtained by feat vs the normal action economy) been made and ruled upon in a sages advice? I couldn't find anything

[Unoriginal]

a debate from an instance in a campaign I play in...

Player has the fey touched feat that gives him Misty step as a daily. The feat reads as follows:

"You learn the misty step spell and one 1st-level divination/enchantment spell of your choice and can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot, recharging on a long rest."

so.. the question was asked "since I don't expend the magical resource (the spell slot), does this mean that I can cast misty step as a bonus spell and also cast another spell as an action, or does it still count as casting a spell, limiting my possibilities to casting a cantrip?

The DM ruled that he would allow this fringe case to not count against the multiple spells per round, limitation rule, and allowed the player to both misty step and cast a levelled spell.

I personally think that's not the rules legal call to make, because the misty step, in it's nature, is and remains a levelled spell, even when you cast it for free because of a feat... but I do respect the DM call..

That said, has this case (namely a spell obtained by feat vs the normal action economy) been made and ruled upon in a sages advice? I couldn't find anything

If it costs a spell slot or not has no impact on the "casting more than one spell per turn" rules. Saying otherwise is houserule territory, whivh of course a DM is allowed to do but probably should explain ASAP to their players, as it can change plenty.

[diplomancer]

It's not about spending the spell slot, and the actual rule doesn't talk about spell slots at all.

There are plenty of magical items that allow you to cast spells without spending a spell slot; they're still subject to this rule. On the other hand, some magical items allow you to reproduce the effects of a spell without needing to cast it; they're NOT subject to this rule. Compare the Necklace of Fireballs with a Wand of Fireballs.

[RogueJK]

Yep. As stated, it isn't the use/non-use of a spell slot that makes it casting a spell... The feat specifically says you cast the spell.

[kazaryu]

a debate from an instance in a campaign I play in...

Player has the fey touched feat that gives him Misty step as a daily. The feat reads as follows:

"You learn the misty step spell and one 1st-level divination/enchantment spell of your choice and can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot, recharging on a long rest."

so.. the question was asked "since I don't expend the magical resource (the spell slot), does this mean that I can cast misty step as a bonus spell and also cast another spell as an action, or does it still count as casting a spell, limiting my possibilities to casting a cantrip?

The DM ruled that he would allow this fringe case to not count against the multiple spells per round, limitation rule, and allowed the player to both misty step and cast a levelled spell.

I personally think that's not the rules legal call to make, because the misty step, in it's nature, is and remains a levelled spell, even when you cast it for free because of a feat... but I do respect the DM call..

That said, has this case (namely a spell obtained by feat vs the normal action economy) been made and ruled upon in a sages advice? I couldn't find anything

i won't reiterate what others have said, although they're right.

what i will say is there is no 'one leveled spell per round' rule. it doesn't exist.

what most people confuse for the 'one leveled spell per round' (or just 'one spell per round' rule) is specifically the rules regards bonus action spells. which reads as follows.


Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

What we get from this is that you can cast as many spells as you want, limited by action economy, during your turn. you could cast meteor swarm. use your reaction to counterspell someone trying to counterspell you. Then action surge to cast Maze. all perfectly legal.

However, if you want to cast any spell (even a cantrip) as a bonus action then the only other spell you can cast that turn is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action...regardless of things like action surge.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yep. As stated, it isn't the use/non-use of a spell slot that makes it casting a spell... The feat specifically says you cast the spell. This is where reading the feat, all of it is so helpful. :smallsmile:


there is no 'one leveled spell per round' rule. it doesn't exist.

What we get from this is that you can cast as many spells as you want, limited by action economy, during your turn. you could cast meteor swarm. use your reaction to counterspell someone trying to counterspell you. Then action surge to cast Maze. all perfectly legal. Edge case but true. :smallsmile:

However, if you want to cast any spell (even a cantrip) as a bonus action then the only other spell you can cast that turn is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action...regardless of things like action surge. *golf clap*

[Damon_Tor]

This is where non-spell teleportation features like the Eladrin's fey step have an edge.

[Arkhios]

5th edition makes no difference between spells being cast without spell slots, with spell slots, or with pact magic slots.

A spell being cast is a spell being cast. That's all you need to know.

In other words, on contrary to earlier editions, in 5th edition, there are no such things as "Spell-Like Abilities" or "Supernatural Abilities" or "Extraordinary Abilities". If a rules element functions like a named spell, then it is that spell. It doesn't matter how you are able to cast it.

[JackPhoenix]

5th edition makes no difference between spells being cast without spell slots, with spell slots, or with pact magic slots.

It doesn't, until it does (plenty of abilities work on spells cast using slots). But bonus action casting rules is not one of those cases.

[Chronos]

And a lot of the recent books include monsters that use things that work like spells, but aren't (though there's not any new category called out for what those things are).

[Arkhios]

Whatever. I would still rule (as it seems it's the only thing I'm capable) that as long as an ability functions exactly like a named spell (as in, the spell is mentioned in the ability's description), it's that spell, and therefore, subject to same rules that bind everyone, players and DM alike. I see no reason to split any hairs to further complicate things any more than absolutely necessary.

[Theodoxus]

What we get from this is that you can cast as many spells as you want, limited by action economy, during your turn. you could cast meteor swarm. use your reaction to counterspell someone trying to counterspell you. Then action surge to cast Maze. all perfectly legal.

I don't see how. If you're in the process of casting meteor swarm, you're concentrating on casting meteor swarm the same as if you were holding it for a readied action. If you then cast another spell as part of your reaction, you lose the concentration, just the same. How are you casting two spells simultaneously?

[PhoenixPhyre]

I don't see how. If you're in the process of casting meteor swarm, you're concentrating on casting meteor swarm the same as if you were holding it for a readied action. If you then cast another spell as part of your reaction, you lose the concentration, just the same. How are you casting two spells simultaneously?

You only need concentration on a non concentration spell if you're readying it or it has a cast time bigger than an action. And casting another spell while concentrating doesn't break concentration by default.

[RogueJK]

Yep. Even if it required Concentration for the initial spell (it doesn't), Counterspell isn't a Concentration spell, so casting it while Concentrating on another spell wouldn't break Concentration anyway.

[stoutstien]

5th edition makes no difference between spells being cast without spell slots, with spell slots, or with pact magic slots.

A spell being cast is a spell being cast. That's all you need to know.

In other words, on contrary to earlier editions, in 5th edition, there are no such things as "Spell-Like Abilities" or "Supernatural Abilities" or "Extraordinary Abilities". If a rules element functions like a named spell, then it is that spell. It doesn't matter how you are able to cast it.

Well there is the spells storing item and like magic items that don't fall under the casting action but produces a spell effect for all other purposes.

[Arkhios]

Well there is the spells storing item and like magic items that don't fall under the casting action but produces a spell effect for all other purposes.

If we're talking about casting spells, it doesn't matter how you cast it. If the rules element states that you are casting a spell, you have to follow the (other) rules of spellcasting, regardless of whether that spell came from your race, class, background, feat, or even equipment.

If the effect is produced by some other means, clearly omitting the wording of casting a spell, the situation may be different, though I remain unconvinced.

Do note that I'm answering directly to the question in the OP, not some other response after that. In the case of Fey Touched feat, you are casting a spell (regardless of whether you used a spell slot or not), so the same rules that apply to normal spellcasting still apply to you. You are restricted to casting a Cantrip if you cast Misty Step through the feat, either with or without a slot.

It doesn't say you only produce an effect similar to what Misty Step does. It says you are casting Misty Step. The rules are clear on what it means.

[stoutstien]

If we're talking about casting spells, it doesn't matter how you cast it. If the rules element states that you are casting a spell, you have to follow the (other) rules of spellcasting, regardless of whether that spell came from your race, class, background, feat, or even equipment.

If the effect is produced by some other means, clearly omitting the wording of casting a spell, the situation may be different, though I remain unconvinced.

Do note that I'm answering directly to the question in the OP, not some other response after that. In the case of Fey Touched feat, you are casting a spell (regardless of whether you used a spell slot or not), so the same rules that apply to normal spellcasting still apply to you. You are restricted to casting a Cantrip if you cast Misty Step through the feat, either with or without a slot.

It doesn't say you only produce an effect similar to what Misty Step does. It says you are casting Misty Step. The rules are clear on what it means.

True but it does leave open the possibly that there could be a spell casting action that costs a spell slot but doesn't break the bonus action/normal action spells interact rules.if I recall the archivist UA came darn close to this and the current playtest material is hinting at it as well.
This one one reason I hate features that are basically "cast X but differently". Even if you understand the rules it just feels janky.