What feat should I take, high level edition

[nickl_2000]

Hitting level 17 early next session, after the party plays with a Custom Deck of Many things. Assuming the party and adventure survives of deck, I need advise on the ASI that will be coming.

Will be Arcane Trickster Rogue 12/War Wizard 5, VHuman
Currently have 20 Dex/18 Int/14 Con and all scores even numbers.

combat role: buff/control in round one then striking with BB or GFB then back to hiding.
Out of combat role: Thief... stealth, scouting, stealing, trap finding and disarming and general skill monkey. Generally a Zorro like figure, in fact he has taken on the role of a Zorro like figure known in the city.

Previous Feats/ASIs:
MI: Wizard level 1
+2 Dex
+2 Dex
Resilient Con
+2 Int

Magic Items: +2 rapier, +2 Light Crossbow, Staff of Swarming Insects, Mantle of Spell Resistance, Custom magic item (Combination Hat of Disguise and Cloak of Elvenkind), Gloves of Thievery, Lantern of Revealing, and a few small consumables.

We are near the end of the campaign, with a trek through a Swamp to get to the BBEG (Big Bad Evil Gal, since it's the Queen who is the baddie.
She was a human, but is demon touched and is trying to become immortal in a ritual) and wiping her off the face of the realm.


Others in the group: Divination Wizard, Glory Paladin/ Draconic Sorcerer, Celestial Warlock/Divine Soul Sorcerer with Pact of the Tome.



So, you know the PC somewhat, you know the party somewhat. What would you think for a good feat at this level? I'm debating the skilled feat to go along with the Rogue reliable talent skill. History and Arcana come up often and would got well with my high Int score. Meta gaming wise we likely don't have much dungeon left for Dungeon Delver to be all that helpful. Tough never hurts at this level and would have a large and immediate impact. +2 int would be good with debuffs and control, +2 con would raise the con save and give 17 more HP. Warcaster would be good for keeping concentration, but I'm not often standing combat where I would get the AoO use out of it.

I don't know, there are just to many options and I'm suffering from the normal decision paralysis. What do you think?

[animorte]

Is this the very same analysis paralysis character from months ago? :smallbiggrin:


I'm debating the skilled feat to go along with the Rogue reliable talent skill. History and Arcana come up often and would got well with my high Int score. Meta gaming wise we likely don't have much dungeon left for Dungeon Delver to be all that helpful. Tough never hurts at this level and would have a large and immediate impact. +2 int would be good with debuffs and control, +2 con would raise the con save and give 17 more HP. Warcaster would be good for keeping concentration, but I'm not often standing combat where I would get the AoO use out of it.
INT > Skilled > Tough > War Caster

If you’re not able to use War Caster’s AoO, you’re also probably not taking a lot of damage, so I don’t think Tough is necessary, though still valuable. However, the proficiency from Res:Con paired with War Caster’s advantage makes maintaining control much more reliable. +2 INT just makes it land more often, which can be more important.

Nothing wrong with making you more skill-focused if combat hasn’t particularly been a struggle though. I, personally, would probably go with Skilled, just because you cover more ground that way in general. Not sure how valuable even more versatility is to you. A glance at your entire party looks as though everyone highly values versatility, to be honest. So you might not need it, haha.

I see your dilemma, and I’m probably not helping. hopefully, my slightly different phrasing and perspective makes a difference. :smalltongue:

[nickl_2000]

Is this the very same analysis paralysis character from months ago? :smallbiggrin:


Yes, and I thought I was done that time and we wouldn't get another ASI.... Now its an even tougher decision, especially since we are so close to the end and what would make the most impact in the final 2 sessions of the game.

We have some very versatile PCs in the party, but we lack skills in general. My PC is the only one with expertise in anything and the only one who has magic items boosting skills. We don't have a single PC with good wisdom for perception, although I've made up for that somewhat with expertise in it. Getting 3 more skills could definitely be a significant boon, especially when combined with reliable talent like I mentioned.

[Nidgit]

Skilled is fine but you've got another Wizard in the party already. Between the two of you you should be able to hit most INT checks. Warcaster is also a matter of how much you'll use it- most people tend to either go Res(Con) or Warcaster depending on their needs, but not both.

A couple other PHB options include Observant and Lucky. Lucky is always good, of course, but Observant's ability to read lips makes for excellent spy work. Also an option, if you prefer to keep your distance, is Crossbow Expert. The main benefit of that would be giving you a bonus action attack to ensure you hit a sneak attack, though you'd need to find a hand crossbow to use it with. Without multiple attacks I'd stay away from Sharpshooter.

Other possible feats include Fey-Touched, which is basically universally useful, and any of the Draconic Gift feats. Telepathic/Telekinetic aren't bad options for a scout either.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'd be looking for a way to try to get a 2nd Sneak Attack in somewhat regularly. If you don't have a Scimitar of Speed lying around, then Sentinel + Mirror Image would be my first thought.

[CTurbo]

Despite the even Wis and Int, Observant is still a good pick IMO if you're party is lacking a Wis based character.

Lucky, Alert, or even Mobile are always strong picks too. I like Mobile on Rogues as they seem to get a little more money's worth from it than most classes. If nobody else in the party has Alert, that may be my pick.

Anything that gives more spells will always a be a good pick like Fey Touched or Shadow Touched.

[J-H]

We don't have a single PC with good wisdom for perception

What are the odds of the BBEG and minions targeting Wisdom saves for the party? You have a Paladin aura to help, but aside from the Paladin, what are the chances of a bunch of you failing saves against Hold Person, Domination, etc.?
I would consider Resilient: Wis

[MrStabby]

Lucky.

Always lucky. For any character in doubt, the answer is almost always Lucky.

It's so universally useful that unless you have a compelling reason to go for something else, this is the answer.

[animorte]

Lucky.

Always lucky. For any character in doubt, the answer is almost always Lucky.

It's so universally useful that unless you have a compelling reason to go for something else, this is the answer.
Just one of the reasons I often go back to halflings.

[KorvinStarmast]

+2 INT or Alert feat.
That's my advice.
(Lucky feat is fine in a 15 minute work day, for longer days it is still useful but getting the boost to your save DC helps your debuffs / control work a little better)

[Chaos Jackal]

Lucky or Alert. They're great for rounding out any character. Alert might feel like too much, but it's still worth it even when your initiative is already high and its other two bullets are also very useful. And Lucky is just always good, even if it's rather bland flavor-wise.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe Fighting Initiate?

If you don't feel like maxing your INT, getting a Fighting Style could be pretty fun to go with the Zorro angle.

Blind Fighting maybe?

Or you could get one or two Battle Master's maneuvres.

[RogueJK]

Lucky.

Always lucky. For any character in doubt, the answer is almost always Lucky.

It's so universally useful that unless you have a compelling reason to go for something else, this is the answer.

Preach.

OP mentioned both Warcaster and Skilled + Reliable Talent. Lucky can be used for both scenarios, and more

Lucky lets you reroll low save rolls, which includes Concentration checks, but isn't just limited to those like Warcaster. It often comes in extremely handy to save you butt against high level enemies with really nasty save-or-suck effects.

Lucky also lets you reroll a low ability check, but isn't limited in its effect by whether you're proficient in that skill or not like Reliable Talent.

And as for Alert, did you know that Initiative is an ability check? So what do you do when you absolutely, positively need to go first in that combat to grab the Ritual MacGuffin and then Move+Dash+Cunning Action Dash away before the enemy lady can react, or get your clutch Control spell off before the enemy gets a chance to go, but you only rolled a 2 and therefore are going to be at the bottom of the initiative order? Oh, wait... I'm Lucky. Just kidding. I actually rolled an 18, and with my 20 DEX, that means I go first.


Yes, it's only three times per long rest. But how often are you running into more than three truly crucial/make or break saving throws or ability checks per long rest?

[Kane0]

*Slaps Warcaster*
This baby can hold so many reaction Booming Blades in it!

But more seriously, Mobile or Lucky.

[Arkhios]

Custom Deck of Many Things, BBEG is a demon touched Queen... You're playing Curse of the Crimson Throne, aren't you? :smallcool:

(if so, did anyone become a werebear irreversibly like my wizard/psion did (https://pathfinderchronicles-1.obsidianportal.com/characters/aistarkhios))

With spell slots up to 5th, I'd say make them all count, and just take Int up to 20.

[nickl_2000]

Custom Deck of Many Things, BBEG is a demon touched Queen... You're playing Curse of the Crimson Throne, aren't you? :smallcool:

(if so, did anyone become a werebear irreversibly like my wizard/psion did (https://pathfinderchronicles-1.obsidianportal.com/characters/aistarkhios))

With spell slots up to 5th, I'd say make them all count, and just take Int up to 20.

Ding, ding, ding, get this person a cupie doll! Crimson throne converted to 5e, but yes definitely!

No one got cursed as a were creature at all, we got lucky.

My PC definitely is the new Blackjack though. There have been so many jokes about carving the initials into people with his rapier with that name!

And the Sorcadin is using Serintel and is an absolute best with it.

My PC nearly got an incurable bloodvale from the deck, but I had harrow point to redraw luckily.


We are right near the end, as you can tell since we are starting from the deck of many things.

[Arkhios]

Ding, ding, ding, get this person a cupie doll! Crimson throne converted to 5e, but yes definitely!

No one got cursed as a were creature at all, we got lucky.

My PC definitely is the new Blackjack though. There have been so many jokes about carving the initials into people with his rapier with that name!

And the Sorcadin is using Serintel and is an absolute best with it.

My PC nearly got an incurable bloodvale from the deck, but I had harrow point to redraw luckily.


We are right near the end, as you can tell since we are starting from the deck of many things.

Actually, I kind of liked my character becoming a werebear, because they're good aligned. And even though in terms of 3.5/pf it meant I would become a character with a total of 21 Hit Dice (too high a level that I'd gain any more levels during the campaign), I was already at my peak performance as a spellcaster/manifeater, I became an absolute beast in combat because of it!

[diplomancer]

I also vote for Lucky, as it does what all the other feats do. With Res (con), you'll only need advantage from Warcaster if you roll really poorly. BAM! Lucky can help with that. With high Dex and Int ONA Wat Wizard, you're probably winning initiative, unless you roll really poorly. BAM! Lucky can help you with that. And so on.

However, I would run past the DM the idea of allowing your character to get the Adept of the Red Robe new Feat in Dragonlance. Technically, your character doesn't qualify for it, but if your DM allows it, it will not only cover your poor rolls 6 times per day instead of 3 (but it won't protect you from crits), but it will get you an extra 2nd level slot.

[Corran]

Tl;dr
Lucky. If the sorcadin focuses on tanking and you have had trouble staying up throughout the campaign, go for mobile instead.


I think the safest choice here is lucky. You are nearing the end of the campaign, so there are bound to he lots of important rolls. Whether it's you saving against a nasty effect coming your way, keeping your concentration on whatever debuff you landed with the help of magical ambush, even to repeat your attack roll and get your SA damage to go through or to reroll a crucial check. With campaign ending high stakes, you cannot go wrong with an extra safety on your d20 rolls.

If you think the party is short on damage, you could go with sharpshooter and change into a hasted ranged attack routine. Though if your sorcadin has a mind to turtle it up when necessary, being a hit short on dpr as a group will be inconsequential, hence the suggestion to go with lucky above (not to mention that haste would compete with ambush debuffing which could even be great with those added wizard levels, as well as competing with your expanded list of reactions from also being a war wizard in particular).

Sentinel wouldn't be great, again due to the overlap from the already paid reactions. Also due to making you more of a liability defensively than you already are (though I didnt check on your magic items, so if I am missing something here my apologies).

Moderately armored wouldnt be bad, paeticularly if you combine it with the war wizard's reaction and with something like protection from evil. But overall I think lucky us better, taking your hit and run approach into account.

Similarly, mobile has value. Allowing you to ignore difficult terrain (you are heading into a marsh?!) and spare yourself an OA when you are using your BA to dash/ hide after BBing will be great for character survivability. Hmm, not worrying too much about your casters who should have options to escape or defend against most melee enemies, is your sorcadin the type of character that needs some pressure taken off of them, or is it the kind that needs enough enemies attacking them to produce enough value? Similarly, how much are you relying on debuffs compared to buffs on yourself? To put it simply, if your group handles fights better by you attracting enough attention, then mobile can still be useful but I'd prefer to go with lucky. Then MA, and after that mobile. But if your group handles fights better when you are not focused, I'd go with mobile (even if having the option to go with ranged attacks), especially knowing that you are heading into a territory that will most likely feature a lot of difficult terrain for the last waltz.

Actor and observant are my two favourite feats for arcane tricksters, though I like both very much generally, so there is clearly some bias. That said, I think they are the kind of feats that one gets early, because they can be very roleplay worth it. Still, actor would not be bad if you know enough of the challenge ahead and found a way to use it (though I am skeptical if there will be enough room for such shenanigans in a campaign ending scenario). Equally, observant can also be quite useful, but with the ending fights closing in it's hard to pass on lucky for observant (the irony is that I am saying that when I have not planned for lucky for my AT, while I have observant already; same though, if I knew that the campaign would be ending, I'd be tempted to make a few changes to suit the final challenge better, and lucky would most likely be inti the mix because it fights against uncertainty, whether that's of what is ahead of you, or more likely of the D20 when you can think of a few rolls that you really dont want or cqnnot afford to fail).