Silvery Barbs and Voice of Authority

[Frogreaver]

How does this spell and ability interact?

[Unoriginal]

How does this spell and ability interact?

Which parts do you find unclear?


Assuming one character has both, SB is reaction-cast, then VoA applies normally on the ally affected by SB.

[Frogreaver]

Which parts do you find unclear?


Assuming one character has both, SB is reaction-cast, then VoA applies normally on the ally affected by SB.

I don’t think I would say unclear. Just confirming.

That’s how I read that as well. That leaves one more question. If the enemies reroll caused by SB still hits does the ally get his reaction attack off before taking the damage?

[stoutstien]

I don’t think I would say unclear. Just confirming.

That’s how I read that as well. That leaves one more question. If the enemies reroll caused by SB still hits does the ally get his reaction attack off before taking the damage?

Id say before by the rules. VoA says the reaction happens immediately.

IF I was going to allow SB as written I'd rule it happens after the results of the reroll have been resolved completely up to the outcome of the original roll's effects.

[Rav]

Reactions happen after their trigger is resolved unless their timing is specified otherwise.

[kazaryu]

Reactions happen after their trigger is resolved unless their timing is specified otherwise.

there actually is no default. most instances of reactions have text either explicitly, or implicitly specifying their timing. sometimes its in the reactions description, other times its included as part of the trigger (see: Berserker's 'Retaliation' or 'absorb elements (spell). If no timing is given, its just a poorly written feature, and the game has no default way of adjudicating it, purely DM fiat.

in this particular case: the timing implied in silvery barbs has you take your reaction to force a reroll. it them implies that the creature resolves its attack (or ability check/saving throw). and then after the rolls are resolved you choose who to give advantage to. Thats my take. but its not due to a default rule that doesn't exist.

Regardless of how you choose to interpret it however, i think we can all agree that the voice of authority feature, and silvery barbs spell weren't written with the other in mind.


relevant rules:


Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.

When you take a reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature’s turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.


You magically distract the triggering creature and turn its momentary uncertainty into encouragement for another creature. The triggering creature must reroll the d20 and use the lower roll.

You can then choose a different creature you can see within range (you can choose yourself). The chosen creature has advantage on the next attack roll, ability check, or saving throw it makes within 1 minute. A creature can be empowered by only one use of this spell at a time.


You can invoke the power of law to embolden an ally to attack. If you cast a spell with a spell slot of 1st level or higher and target an ally with the spell, that ally can use their reaction immediately after the spell to make one weapon attack against a creature of your choice that you can see.

If the spell targets more than one ally, you choose the ally who can make the attack.

edit: changed 'all' to 'most' for precisions sake

[Rav]

The default reaction anyone can use any time is found in the Ready Action. It says:

"When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger."

This is how reactions work unless their timing is otherwise specified. They often are specified though.

[diplomancer]

I don't think there's any question about it. Advantage is only given after the first roll is resolved, so the opportunity attack by the caster ally can only come after he's actually affected by the spell (i.e, once he gets the Advantage, after the attack.)

[Frogreaver]

I don't think there's any question about it. Advantage is only given after the first roll is resolved, so the opportunity attack by the caster ally can only come after he's actually affected by the spell (i.e, once he gets the Advantage, after the attack.)

Nothing says advantage is only given after the first roll is resolved.

[diplomancer]

Nothing says advantage is only given after the first roll is resolved.

As a matter of fact, it does:


You magically distract the triggering creature and turn its momentary uncertainty into encouragement for another creature. The triggering creature must reroll the d20 and use the lower roll.

You can then choose a different creature you can see within range (you can choose yourself).

The advantage is given after the first creature has rerolled its die.

"Eat your vegetables. You can then eat some ice-cream"
Now try to convince your parents that this means you can eat some ice-cream before eating your vegetables.

Not to mention that if you reverse the order, you might break the space-time continuum, and Biff will own everything!

[fishyfishyfishy]

there actually is no default.

That is false. The DMG has the relevant rules text on adjudication of reactions on page 252.


If a reaction has no timing specified, or the timing is unclear, the reaction occurs after its trigger finishes, as in the Ready action.

[Frogreaver]

As a matter of fact, it does:



The advantage is given after the first creature has rerolled its die.

"Eat your vegetables. You can then eat some ice-cream"
Now try to convince your parents that this means you can eat some ice-cream before eating your vegetables.

Not to mention that if you reverse the order, you might break the space-time continuum, and Biff will own everything!

So you used the phrase 'after the roll is resolved' implying that resolving the roll includes the damage component. The text you quote says nothing about that. Yes, you roll after the roll - but the roll is not the damage. That text doesn't say that the roll is 'resolved' in the way you mean it (including the damage) and then you grant the advantage.


That is false. The DMG has the relevant rules text on adjudication of reactions on page 252.

Thank you. That does settle it for me.

[diplomancer]

So you used the phrase 'after the roll is resolved' implying that resolving the roll includes the damage component. The text you quote says nothing about that. Yes, you roll after the roll - but the roll is not the damage. That text doesn't say that the roll is 'resolved' in the way you mean it (including the damage) and then you grant the advantage.

Because both the rules and the narrative don't support separating, with a time interval, the to-hit roll and the damage roll. Heck, monsters' stat blocks suggest as the first choice just not rolling for damage at all, just taking the average, and the DMG suggests players to roll attack and damage simultaneously.

Furthermore, the "making an attack" section on the PHB clearly states that "resolving an attack" includes not only damage, but also any other special effects involved in the attack.

[kazaryu]

That is false. The DMG has the relevant rules text on adjudication of reactions on page 252.

ah, that is interesting. And annoying that they'd put the rules for reactions in 2 places.

fair enough. doesn't change my answer for this interaction, but is good to know

[Hytheter]

That is false. The DMG has the relevant rules text on adjudication of reactions on page 252.

Because putting it in the PHB where players can see would make too much sense. :smallamused: