Build ideas

[Fixer]

I am interested in some ideas for a couple characters. Here is the history.

My friends and I had gotten sort of sick of playing D&D because everything sort of became predictable. Player 1 always played something roguish. Player 2 always played a wizardish, etc.

I threw out the idea that each of our characters would be started 'by committee'. The player got veto power but otherwise everyone who was NOT the player chose what they were going to play. It worked out pretty well with players ending up with all sorts of wild characters.

The two I am wondering about it mine and my wife's. I am having to play a dwarven rogue (level 1) and my wife is playing a Krynnish Minotaur Ranger (also level 1).

Now, I have no real idea on how these two character could be built. My wife says she's playing Chaotic Neutral, just for kicks (she is LN herself). I havent decided yet but we won't be using alignment as an excuse for behavior (we all agreed to that beforehand, even the paladin has to WRITE OUT his ethics and morals since his player is about the most chaotic person you can imagine).

I know I would like my dwarf to have a ranged touch attack so I was considering having him multiclass into warlock but I am more looking for ideas than anything, especially if someone has a better idea. My wife has no clue on her character other than she just wants to break stuff and taking valuables (and with a 20 strength, she has a decent chance).

Anyways, committee input?

[Fixer]

Wow. No one has any ideas? I think that's a first around here.

[Talic]

My idea? Make warlock your level 3. Get to +2d6 sneak attack as a rogue, to make the ranged touch worthwhile, then take warlock. Now, as neither of these is a dwarf favored class, you need to keep them close in level to each other... hm. This build would be better as a human, so you could splash lock for 1 level, and get the 30 foot ranged touch sneak attack, without being dependent on levelling close.

As is, keep the levels close together, and focus on sneak attack, and debilitating invocation choices. That'll max your damage output, I suppose.

My build? Dwarf locksmith. Max the lockbreaking skills, and focus on being a stealth/skill rogue. Don't worry about sneak attack so much, and splash a level of fighter for the feats and weapons. Then sneak attack with dwarven waraxes and heavy crossbows, when you need to, and be everything none of the other fools in the group can be...

Well, except for the wizard, of course. But do your stuff so well, he doesn't have to. That way, he can focus on his fun stuff, not yours.

[Fixer]

Yeah, I cannot change his race or his first class level so he has to be a dwarf and a rogue, but since I actually start playing him at level 2 I can tweak him. We are going one level per dungeon (designing the dungeons that way), and whomever is DMing doesn't run their character. It was also agreed to avoid anyone being left behind that whoever is running the dungeon has their character advance one level as well 'in the background' and get new gear for the level based on their DMing skill and the challenge and fun of the dungeon.

I am going first, so this dwarf will be starting at 2nd level when I get to play, probably in January. I was thinking about having him take several Fey Heritage feats but, as I said, I am looking to see if anyone has a wonderful idea that would require his feats going in another direction.

I am the only rogue in the group so, perhaps you are right, sticking with the skill monkey route couldn't hurt either. With two frontline fighters and one backup fighter already in the group I should have multiple flanking opportunities every round.

Player List:
Warforged Paladin (played by a very CN player, we all expect him to fall from grace quickly, somehow)
Elan Druid (played by someone who normally plays paladins)
Gnome Bard (played by a real-life preacher, which should be entertaining)
Halfling Wizard (played by someone who loves playing barbarians and minotaurs)
Minotaur Ranger (played by my wife who normally plays elven sorcereresses, yes she's a new D&Der)
and my Dwarven Rogue.

[Keld Denar]

If you want to go ranged touchy, I'd almost advocate wizard over warlock. You'll be slighty more limited in shots/day, but after the first couple levels, he'll have more than enough. Go either wiz3/rog3, or wiz3/rog2/unseen seer1 for the first 6 levels, and then head into Arcane Trickster. Either of these will keep you out of exp penalty land, if you use that. Unseen Seer also nets you the advantage of picking up Grave Strike or Hunter's Eye as expanded learning. The strategy is to sneak attack with low level ranged touch attacks, such as Acid Splash (0th) or Lesser Orb of XXX (1st).

Another option would be Spellwarped Sniper, which has similar class requirements. Its in Complete Mage (along with Unseen Seer). This will give you the neato ability to convert area spells into rays, which you can sneak attack with. Consider the feat Elven Spell Lore(PHB2) of your damage spell of choice (fireball or lightning bolt work good) and you can change the damage type to sonic. Also, since your new spell is a ray, you can Split Ray it with metamagic feat. So, you'll be doing decent damage with the spell, and adding sneak attack on top of it. Gravy man, just gravy.

The key here is access to arcane magic, which will net you things like greater invis or a host of other spells that will allow you to get ranged sneak attacks on every attack. The problem with most ranged sneakers is that, since they don't flank, they only gain sneak from winning initiative and suprising, or by some other method, usually invisibility or other power.

The nice thing about either of these AT or SWS, is that they don't rely on saving throws, so you don't have to have a crazy int score. You could get by with a 14-16 int score starting, which also synergizes well with skill points. Picking up a +2 to +4 int item at around level 6-7 will net you a few bonus spells and stuff, but isn't really needed.

Anyway, good luck and good gaming!

[Fixer]

As much as I'd like to have him have a natural ranged touch attack attack I am having some problems with a class dip to achieve it because of his race not having rogue as a favored class. I suppose I can have him UMD a Lesser Orb of Force wand for those sorts of attacks.

Are there any feats or something that allow a ranged touch attack other than reserve feats (which, not being an arcane caster, are fairly useless for this character)? I can't think of any.

I am thinking of taking this guy the path of the combat trapsmith. Any opinions on that?

[cupkeyk]

You aren't getting a lot of suggestions because we have nothing to work on. Other than dwarf rogue and CN minotaur ranger. These things could could go anywhere really. Stereotypically, a dwarf rogues are expert locksmiths. Minotaurs track people through dungeon environments. So... what exactly do you want out of these guys? Party roles? Fluff?

[Fixer]

Well, that's sort of the point. They literally can go anywhere. So far I have come up with him taking two levels of fighter at character levels 4 & 5 but otherwise probably sticking with rogue. If I had the prerequisites for Combat Trapsmith and Trapsmith handy I would see if building him to go into those prestige classes would work but I don't have my books handy at work.

My wife's minotaur really has no plan to it yet. She just knows she wants to take that feat for Scent (Kyrnnian minotars have to do that) and wield a spiked chain (which, with her 20 strength, could work quite well with TWF, right?)

[dyslexicfaser]

No idea on the rogue, but for the minotaur - especially a "break stuff" minotaur - make use of the large size and work on getting the knockback line: Power Attack, Imp. Bullrush, Knockback, and Shock Trooper.

As a build it's missing something until lvl 6, but once you get Knockback, every hit you make allows you to send your opponents flying as per a bullrush. Once you get Shock Trooper, send one enemy into another and knock both of them down.

Just as a bonus, I'd suggest taking a few ranger levels and then multiclassing to fighter to get Knockback/Shock Trooper earlier. Maybe the Dungeoncrasher variant fighter from Dungeonscape, so you can knock people into walls for 4d6 extra damage.

[Fixer]

No idea on the rogue, but for the minotaur - especially a "break stuff" minotaur - make use of the large size and work on getting the knockback line: Power Attack, Imp. Bullrush, Knockback, and Shock Trooper.
Krynnish minotaurs are medium sized, not large. Otherwise that'd be a great idea.

[dyslexicfaser]

Really? Not even Powerful Build (which still qualifies)?

Huh. :smallconfused:

[Fixer]

Really? Not even Powerful Build (which still qualifies)?

Huh. :smallconfused:

Yeah, they are from the Dragonlance series of books where Minotaurs are more 'humanoid' than monstrous. They have no ECL whatsoever (so she can play it in our ECL 1 game), a +4 str boost but lots of penalties and no darkvision. No powerful build mentioned (I think only Goliaths have that).

[Fixer]

What are some decent substitutions for Ranger Favored Enemy? My wife dislikes the concept and it is for her character.

[goat]

Going straight rogue wouldn't be a hard build. Dwarven rogues are really just anything-but-face-rogues. You won't be a bluff and diplomacy master, but you can still be any of the other standard rogue types. You make a good dungeoneer, your bonus to spotting unusual stonework and not having to actively search to do so helps that. Your bonuses to poison and spell saves gives you extra survivability in close combat, boosted further by your improved con. And of course you have darkvision, making you a useful (but slow) scout into dark areas.

I think there's a ranger that loses favoured enemy and gets an expanded spell list, but I'm pretty sure it also ties you to the ranged fighting tree.

[Fixer]

Rogue is done and happy with, although any cool substitution levels I'll consider.


I think there's a ranger that loses favoured enemy and gets an expanded spell list, but I'm pretty sure it also ties you to the ranged fighting tree.
Yeah, my wife's character is going the shapechanging route.

Ranger (Trade Combat Styles for Wild Shape as Druid and Fast Movement as Barbarian)
Trade Wild Shape as Druid for Shapechange as Druid
Warshaper at level 5, taking 4 levels.

Since, as a Krynnish minotaur, she wouldn't be using much for weapons (her gore attack deals decent damage) and, using Shapechange, armor will do her no good. She basically has a longbow and arrows for ranged attacks and basic travel gear. She will likely stay as an animal most of the time, since a man-sized minotaur is generally more imposing than a giant cat.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

You could take all five levels of master thrower (in Comp.W) and at the last level take weak spot which allows you to make a ranged touch attack with a thrown weapon.

but thats a ways way, i think you have to be 5th level to get into it, with the right feats and all. just stay with warlock IMO.

[nerulean]

It strikes me as a little odd that, having been given a race/class combination to play to make things different, the ranger is doing everything possible to become a druid. It just seems to defy the point of the exercise, and you might want to check it with the rest of your committee before you get too attached to playing a character that isn't the one it was suggested you play, especially since I remember you building another druid not all that very long ago.

[Fixer]

It strikes me as a little odd that, having been given a race/class combination to play to make things different, the ranger is doing everything possible to become a druid. It just seems to defy the point of the exercise, and you might want to check it with the rest of your committee before you get too attached to playing a character that isn't the one it was suggested you play, especially since I remember you building another druid not all that very long ago.
According to our rules, only the race and class were specified. You should see what happened to the guy who is playing an Elan Druid. He is turning him into a monk/barbarian/ranger/druid thing and plans to take "Up the Walls" as a feat pretty quickly. He is going to be all over the place, I am sure. The point of the exercise was to have everyone try something new they had never played before.

The minotaur ranger's role is striker/meatshield. The shapeshifting enhances those and my wife wasn't big on the combat styles anyway. The only parts of Ranger she likes are the Wild Empathy, BAB, Saving Throws, and the Tracking part.
(And, yes, she is the one who was playing the shapeshifting druid before but only got to play her twice and really wants to try shapechanging out some more.)