Thread explaining every joke/reference

[Mizuki]

Hello all,

I fairly vividly recall a thread which contained an explanation of every OOTS strip’s pop culture references / jokes, starting with the exact rules changes which are being poked fun of in strip 1, the show the hobgoblins in 469 are talking about, and so on for literally every gag and reference in the series. I did some (albeit probably sloppy) searching but couldn’t seem to find the thread. It would be much appreciated if anyone could point me in the right direction.

[Metastachydium]

I believe what you are looking for is The Annotated Order of the Stick ed. by TheWombatOfDoom et al. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?306917-The-Annotated-Order-of-the-Stick-A-Companion-Guide&highlight=annotated)

[Mizuki]

Thank you!

[ti'esar]

I believe what you are looking for is The Annotated Order of the Stick ed. by TheWombatOfDoom et al. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?306917-The-Annotated-Order-of-the-Stick-A-Companion-Guide&highlight=annotated)

Ironically, this doesn't explain what the hobgoblins in 469 panel 1 were talking about - which I was actually curious about myself now.

[Tzardok]

In that case, maybe check out the Order of the Stick wiki (https://oots.fandom.com/wiki/Crossbones?so=search).

[Fyraltari]

Ironically, this doesn't explain what the hobgoblins in 469 panel 1 were talking about - which I was actually curious about myself now.

I always assumed Lost, but looking into it, it only ended three years after this strip and only had six seasons.
Now, I'm confused too. Maybe it's not meant to be a show in particular?

[woweedd]

Ironically, this doesn't explain what the hobgoblins in 469 panel 1 were talking about - which I was actually curious about myself now.


I always assumed Lost, but looking into it, it only ended three years after this strip and only had six seasons.
Now, I'm confused too. Maybe it's not meant to be a show in particular?

They're talking about The Sopranos, where...Spoilers for a 15-year-old show with one of the most well known endings of all time. After finally disposing of his arch-nemesis Phil Leotardo, mobster Tony Soprano, our main character, is seen taking his wife Carmela and son AJ to a diner, later to be joined by their daughter Meadow. It's seemingly an upbeat scene, with the exception of Tony discussing potential legal troubles on the horizon. Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" starts playing in the background, and you begin to see shots of seemingly random people in the diner mixed in with shots of Tony and his family happily chomping down on onion rings. The music swells,becoming more and more loud until it's almost overpowering, someone enters the restaurant, Tony looks up, and suddenly—cut to black, series over. This mystery has baffled people for years. It's a common fan theory that the cut symbolizes Tony's death as he gets taken out by one of his old enemies. But that's not proven. The showrunners would claim that we don't know, and that's the point. As long as Tony keeps living a life of crime, he'll have a sword of damocles over his head, every day bringing a risk of being his last. We don't know whether he just had a regular dinner and went home or got whacked...And that's how he'll live the rest of his life.

[littlebum2002]

They're talking about The Sopranos, where...Spoilers for a 15-year-old show with one of the most well known endings of all time. After finally disposing of his arch-nemesis Phil Leotardo, mobster Tony Soprano, our main character, is seen taking his wife Carmela and son AJ to a diner, later to be joined by their daughter Meadow. It's seemingly an upbeat scene, with the exception of Tony discussing potential legal troubles on the horizon. Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" starts playing in the background, and you begin to see shots of seemingly random people in the diner mixed in with shots of Tony and his family happily chomping down on onion rings. The music swells,becoming more and more loud until it's almost overpowering, someone enters the restaurant, Tony looks up, and suddenly—cut to black, series over. This mystery has baffled people for years. It's a common fan theory that the cut symbolizes Tony's death as he gets taken out by one of his old enemies. But that's not proven. The showrunners would claim that we don't know, and that's the point. As long as Tony keeps living a life of crime, he'll have a sword of damocles over his head, every day bringing a risk of being his last. We don't know whether he just had a regular dinner and went home or got whacked...And that's how he'll live the rest of his life.

Everything you just said is true, except for one part, and this DOES deserve a spoiler I think.

Last yea the show creator came out and said Tony died

https://www.eonline.com/news/1308324/sopranos-creator-david-chase-finally-confirms-tonys-fate#:~:text=Bada%20bing%2C%20bada%20boom%E2%80%94 Tony,the%20series'%20finale%20in%202007.

[woweedd]

Everything you just said is true, except for one part, and this DOES deserve a spoiler I think.

Last yea the show creator came out and said Tony died

https://www.eonline.com/news/1308324/sopranos-creator-david-chase-finally-confirms-tonys-fate#:~:text=Bada%20bing%2C%20bada%20boom%E2%80%94 Tony,the%20series'%20finale%20in%202007.
A. Not entirely what he said.
B. SCREW THAT GUY. He wasn't even there! If that was what he meant, he shoulda put it in the show. Death of the author, my friend.

[Kish]

The Sopranos, like Lost, only had six seasons, though.

[woweedd]

The Sopranos, like Lost, only had six seasons, though.

Indeed, but the 6th season was nearly twice as long as previous seasons. It's entirely likely Rich sinply misremebered.

[Peelee]

At least the goblin didn't say six seasons and a movie.

[littlebum2002]

B. SCREW THAT GUY. He wasn't even there! If that was what he meant, he shoulda put it in the show. Death of the author, my friend.

What do you mean he wasnt there? Didn't he create the show?

Also, what is YOUR headcanon for what happened at the end of the episode? Just curious.


Indeed, but the 6th season was nearly twice as long as previous seasons. It's entirely likely Rich sinply misremebered.

I mean the hobgoblin was clearly guessing the number of seasons, but it's important to note that the last season was really just 2 different seasons. Each half was about the length of a normal season and aired in different years and in the timeframe of the earlier seasons. They must have had some agreement that the show would end after 6 seasons and used that as a loophole to make a 7th season.

Also the Sopranos did that terrible thing that TV shows do much more commonly now which is to skip years between the final seasons. The last 3 (really 4) seasons aired over 6 years. So it would have been entirely reasonable for the hobgoblin to misremember how long it had been on their air.

Also I am going to ask Rich in the Q&A thread what the point of the final episode was.

[woweedd]

What do you mean he wasnt there? Didn't he create the show?

Also, what is YOUR headcanon for what happened at the end of the episode? Just curious.



I mean the hobgoblin was clearly guessing the number of seasons, but it's important to note that the last season was really just 2 different seasons. Each half was about the length of a normal season and aired in different years and in the timeframe of the earlier seasons. They must have had some agreement that the show would end after 6 seasons and used that as a loophole to make a 7th season.

Also the Sopranos did that terrible thing that TV shows do much more commonly now which is to skip years between the final seasons. The last 3 (really 4) seasons aired over 6 years. So it would have been entirely reasonable for the hobgoblin to misremember how long it had been on their air.

Also I am going to ask Rich in the Q&A thread what the point of the final episode was.

Little, i'm alluding to the literary analysis concept known as Death of the Author IE that all that matters to interpretation is the work itself. So David Chase's opinion on what happens to Tony is no more definitive then anyone's would be. After all, David Chase is a failable mortal who could change his mind at any moment. The episode exists and, if it wasn't important to put IN the episide, it's just some guy's headcanon, even if that guy made the show.

[Darth Paul]

Little, i'm alluding to the literary analysis concept known as Death of the Author IE that all that matters to interpretation is the work itself. So David Chase's opinion on what happens to Tony is no more definitive then anyone's would be. After all, David Chase is a failable mortal who could change his mind at any moment. The episode exists and, if it wasn't important to put IN the episide, it's just some guy's headcanon, even if that guy made the show.

One of the things I really disliked about Solo (which otherwise has grown on me somewhat, it's not a bad movie at all) is that it finally codified, on film, the thing about doing the Kessel run in 12 parsecs. For decades I was of the opinion (confirmed by Alec Guinness' little knowing look) that Han was just blowing smoke at a couple of rubes who didn't know what a parsec was. That made a LOT more sense to me than saying, essentially, "It's the ship that flew a mile in only 100 yards!"

As for all the novels and whatever that said otherwise, I don't count anything that hasn't made it up on the big screen as "canon". I'm a heretic like that. I don't care if Disney or Lucasfilm says it's official, I just don't buy it. Especially not Darth Maul surviving. I don't care how much dark side hate you're fueled by, NOBODY survives being laterally bisected with a laser sword.

I still regard Solo as sort of apocryphal; like, it's the tall tales of Han Solo and his rambunctious youth, but it didn't necessarily happen that way. Call it death of the author if you like.

[whitehelm]

One of the things I really disliked about Solo (which otherwise has grown on me somewhat, it's not a bad movie at all) is that it finally codified, on film, the thing about doing the Kessel run in 12 parsecs. For decades I was of the opinion (confirmed by Alec Guinness' little knowing look) that Han was just blowing smoke at a couple of rubes who didn't know what a parsec was. That made a LOT more sense to me than saying, essentially, "It's the ship that flew a mile in only 100 yards!"


It wasn't just "confirmed by Alec Guinness' little knowing look", it was in the actual script..."Ben reacts to Solo's stupid attempt to impress them with obvious misinformation."

[Darth Paul]

It wasn't just "confirmed by Alec Guinness' little knowing look", it was in the actual script..."Ben reacts to Solo's stupid attempt to impress them with obvious misinformation."

Thanks for that, I never read the script itself.

I guess I have to put it down as another unneccesary George Lucas revision, like Han shooting second, or the big Darth Vader speech and shuttle sequence in Empire (replacing the wonderfully angry, "Bring my shuttle"). For all his undoubted genius in creating the story and the setting, George is beset with a chronic inability to leave his finished product alone.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

One of the things I really disliked about Solo (which otherwise has grown on me somewhat, it's not a bad movie at all) is that it finally codified, on film, the thing about doing the Kessel run in 12 parsecs. For decades I was of the opinion (confirmed by Alec Guinness' little knowing look) that Han was just blowing smoke at a couple of rubes who didn't know what a parsec was. That made a LOT more sense to me than saying, essentially, "It's the ship that flew a mile in only 100 yards!"

Out of morbid curiosity, what did they end up going for as an explanation? In the pre-Internet days, me and my friends just figured it was some kind of obstacle course that like so many other sport ended up measuring skill by a secondary measure (think "batting average" for baseball). For example, the Kessel system is chock full of asteroids, and the race is to cross it. You can go around the thing, making the race be N parsecs long (where N >> 12), or you can demonstrate speed and manoeuvrability by going through, and the results are compared year-on-year by how short a distance you did end up travelling. This would then be a set up to explain why he can get through the later scene with the asteroids where all the smaller, nimbler tie fighters can't.

Then the post-Internet days came and I heard through the grapevine something about getting close to a black hole, which I found far more convoluted than my own headcanon for the thing.

ETA: and FWLIW, we always figured that Obi-Wan's look was because he knew that the guy who did do the 12-parsec run was black, and thus couldn't possibly be Solo; i.e. we assumed that Lando was the one that actually had done the run.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

That's the basic gist, yeah, the shorter the route the more dangerous it is.

[Fyraltari]

That's the basic gist, yeah, the shorter the route the more dangerous it is.

Edit: Also, Solo never claims to have done the 12-parsec run, just that the Falcon is the ship that did.

[littlebum2002]

That's the basic gist, yeah, the shorter the route the more dangerous it is.

I think the exact situation was that the Kessel Run involved going around a black hole but he got closer to the black hole than one is supposed to. Normally it would mean getting sucked in but he got away because he had some reserve power that helped him escape the gravity well.

[Peelee]

I think the exact situation was that the Kessel Run involved going around a black hole but he got closer to the black hole than one is supposed to. Normally it would mean getting sucked in but he got away because he had some reserve power that helped him escape the gravity well.

A giant cluster of Black Holes. The Maw was actually a pretty neat concept in Legends, and if be OK with keeping it or scrubbing it entirely. Solo decided to make it significantly dumber, where it's only one black hole in a space cloud. Great job there, guys, way to make it as bland as possible.

[Fyraltari]

A giant cluster of Black Holes. The Maw was actually a pretty neat concept in Legends, and if be OK with keeping it or scrubbing it entirely. Solo decided to make it significantly dumber, where it's only one black hole in a space cloud. Great job there, guys, way to make it as bland as possible.

Hey, now, there's also a tentacle monster in there too. For some reason.

One issue I have with Solo is that, except for the opening, it takes place in the course of one week but crams in Han leaving the Empire, meeting Chewbacca, setting foot on and acquiring the Millenium Falcon, meeting and having a fallout with Lando Calrissian, acquiring his scoped pistol and doing the Kessel Run.
Then at the end he's off to meet Jabba.

Did nothing interesting happen to him in the years between this movie and meeting Obi-Wan and Luke?

[Peelee]

Hey, now, there's also a tentacle monster in there too. For some reason.

One issue I have with Solo is that, except for the opening, it takes place in the course of one week but crams in Han leaving the Empire, meeting Chewbacca, setting foot on and acquiring the Millenium Falcon, meeting and having a fallout with Lando Calrissian, acquiring his scoped pistol and doing the Kessel Run.
Then at the end he's off to meet Jabba.

Did nothing interesting happen to him in the years between this movie and meeting Obi-Wan and Luke?

Dont forget betting am expensive ship he doesn't have, losing the bet, owing Lando a ship, never paying on said bet, then betting Lando again and having Lando pay up. Despite that Han owed him a ship already.

I noticed that while watching it in the theater and its been bugging me ever since.

[Fyraltari]

Dont forget betting am expensive ship he doesn't have, losing the bet, owing Lando a ship, never paying on said bet, then betting Lando again and having Lando pay up. Despite that Han owed him a ship already.

I noticed that while watching it in the theater and its been bugging me ever since.

Would it make sense for Han's debt to have been put in the stakes too? I don't quite remember the scene.

It's not like winning back what you lost is an impossibilty when gambling.

[Dasick]

Especially not Darth Maul surviving. I don't care how much dark side hate you're fueled by, NOBODY survives being laterally bisected with a laser sword.

I used to hate that, but Clone Wars and to some extent Rebels are an absolute work of art, so I'm ok with that character's arc, it's really good.

It was always disappointing how cool he looked, and how little we learned about him and the animated series really cashed in on that promise of coolness. Stories don't have to be "airtight everything makes perfect sense" to be good, just look at fairytales and legends and how nonsensical and dreamlike they can be. But they're powerful stories that say something and stick with us regardless.

[Peelee]

Would it make sense for Han's debt to have been put in the stakes too? I don't quite remember the scene.

It's not like winning back what you lost is an impossibilty when gambling.

Ignoring that the ship Han bet was probably worth more than the Falcon and almost certainly wasn't worth half of it, why would you even let someone with an outstanding balance that big sit down at the table? Especially since Lando clearly didn't believe he had that ship to start with, and never getting delivery on it should only have reinforced that.

If I bet you a million bucks and lose and then hang out for a whole and then bet you two million bucks and win, should you give me the million? Becuase I clearly didn't give you the million when I owed it. I didn't even have it. I can just keep betting millions until I eventually win if I just don't ever pay when I lose.

[Fyraltari]

Ignoring that the ship Han bet was probably worth more than the Falcon and almost certainly wasn't worth half of it, why would you even let someone with an outstanding balance that big sit down at the table? Especially since Lando clearly didn't believe he had that ship to start with, and never getting delivery on it should only have reinforced that.

If I bet you a million bucks and lose and then hang out for a whole and then bet you two million bucks and win, should you give me the million? Becuase I clearly didn't give you the million when I owed it. I didn't even have it. I can just keep betting millions until I eventually win if I just don't ever pay when I lose.

But the second time Han showed up with that can of supervaluable thing they spent the whole movie trying to steal, right? And wasn't there an implied threat of telling everyone Lando was cheating to make sure he paid up?

[Peelee]

But the second time Han showed up with that can of supervaluable thing they spent the whole movie trying to steal, right? And wasn't there an implied threat of telling everyone Lando was cheating to make sure he paid up?

Cool, he can give that to Lando for the debt he already owes and then buy in with what he has left. Oops, he doesn't have anything left, sucks for him.

At the end of the day he made a bet he didn't pay on and then got in on a game with that person and demanded the other person pay up immediately. Sure, Lando was cheating. So he should have spoken up before Han sat down. He didn't. This is silly because he has no reason to stay silent and every reason to object.

[Fyraltari]

Cool, he can give that to Lando for the debt he already owes and then buy in with what he has left. Oops, he doesn't have anything left, sucks for him.
Assuming that thing isn't worth both ships and more.


At the end of the day he made a bet he didn't pay on and then got in on a game with that person and demanded the other person pay up immediately. Sure, Lando was cheating. So he should have spoken up before Han sat down. He didn't. This is silly because he has no reason to stay silent and every reason to object.

He got greedy? Thought he could get the refined fuel from Solo on top of what Solo already owes him. Maybe he planned on making Han pay him in installments later or something.

Does it matter?

[Peelee]

Assuming that thing isn't worth both ships and more.



He got greedy? Thought he could get the refined fuel from Solo on top of what Solo already owes him. Maybe he planned on making Han pay him in installments later or something.

Does it matter?

He got greedy thinking he could collect from the guy who doesn't pay his debts?

It matters inasmuch as it makes zero sense. It's a plot point that's immediately discarded and forgotten, never to be spoken of again. Why even have it be a plot point? Why not have Han win but the Falcon wasn't bet and in lieu of payment they get his services with the Falcon? Or literally anything other than "Han bets a ship he doesn't have and doesn't pay up and this never becomes relevant and has zero repurcussions"?