AL free starting feats

[da newt]

AL now allows players to start PCs with 1 of 3 free feats (tough, skilled, magic initiate). While I'm not a big fan of the continued power creep (especially when the modules were written / 'balanced' for PHB only), I'm curious what sorts of build shenanigans y'all could come up with to take advantage of this new option - So what would you do with this and WHY?

[RogueJK]

Magic Initiate Druid lets you lean into WIS-SAD characters. You can do stuff like:

WIS-SAD Astral Self Monk with Magic Initiate Druid for Shillelagh (WIS-based attacks even when Astral Arms aren't active) + WIS-based ranged damage cantrip to supplement your WIS-based melee attacks.

WIS-SAD Arcana Cleric with Magic Initiate Druid for Shillelagh to combo with your beefed-up Booming Blade, plus also Thorn Whip to pull enemies back into your Spirit Guardians aura (See LudicSavant's "Arcana Cleric Frontliner" build)

WIS-SAD Swarmkeeper or Fey Wanderer Ranger with Magic Initiate Druid for Shillelagh + Dueling Fighting Style, alongside a ranged damage cantrip. (Shillelagh + Dueling makes your 1H staff/club attacks do the same average damage as a Greataxe, while still allowing you to use a shield.)

WIS-SAD Samurai Fighter with Magic Initiate Druid for Shillelagh + Dueling + ranged damage cantrip like Magic Stone + Goodberry. (This one's a fun nontraditional Fighter build. Picture an unassuming wandering ronin who travels the countryside with his staff and a pocketful of stones and berries, mediating disputes, righting wrongs, meting out justice, and dispensing needed bits of wisdom.)

Etc.


It's also a big bump to (non-Arcane-Trickster) Rogues, allowing them to take Magic Initiate Wizard to easily pick up Booming Blade to combine with Cunning Action Disengage, plus have Find Familiar for an Owl familiar to do flyby Help Actions for auto-Advantage to trigger Sneak Attack.

It's a nice bump to frontliner Clerics, who can take Magic Initiate Wizard for Booming Blade, and then go with the boring but reliable combo of Booming Blade + Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon, plus have an emergency Absorb Elements on tap once a day.

And it's an easy route for Bards to get a better resourceless damage option than Vicious Mockery by taking Magic Initiate Warlock (Eldritch Blast) or Magic Initiate Sorcerer (Fire Bolt/Chill Touch/Ray of Frost/Toll the Dead/etc.)


Skilled is particularly nice for Rogues, and Soulknife Rogues in particular. All Rogues eventually get Reliable Talent, which means they can't roll below a 10 on a proficient skill. Soulknife Rogues in particular have the Psi-Bolstered Knack ability, which lets them use a Psionic dice to get another shot at a failed skill check using a skill with which they're proficient. Combine Skilled with the Rogue's already high number of class proficiencies, plus one of the various races that allows you to gain two racial skill proficiencies, plus your background skills, and you can be starting out from Level 1 with proficiency in 11 of the 18 skills. And a Ranger 1/Knowledge Cleric 1/Rogue X with Skilled at Level 1 and Skill Expert at Level 4 would have proficiency in 15 of the 18 skills, and Expertise in 5-8 of them (depending on your level).

[MrStabby]

I think tough could be nice for bladesingers - great defense sometimes, but very low on HP for a character that likes to get into melee from time to time. Those extra coue of HP per level could really go a long way.

An extra pool of HP might also be nice for redemption paladins and ancestral barbarians that like to take damage. Likewise with things like life clerics and warding bond.

[diplomancer]

I think tough could be nice for bladesingers - great defense sometimes, but very low on HP for a character that likes to get into melee from time to time. Those extra coue of HP per level could really go a long way.

An extra pool of HP might also be nice for redemption paladins and ancestral barbarians that like to take damage. Likewise with things like life clerics and warding bond.

Alternatively, you can rely on tough for your hit Points and not invest that much on Con. You can be a Fighter with good Cha, Int or Wis, leaving your Con at a comfortable 12.

[MrStabby]

Alternatively, you can rely on tough for your hit Points and not invest that much on Con. You can be a Fighter with good Cha, Int or Wis, leaving your Con at a comfortable 12.

A good point, with a slight reservation. Your hit dice HP recovery will be pretty terrible. Depending on party composition/healing, this may or may not be an issue.

I do remember playing alongside a character that had so many HP bonuses added. I think dwarf, draconic sorcerer with the tough feat (back with PHB as the only content out there). They always needed a bit of topping up.

[Dualight]

Free Magic Initiate(wizard) is also awesome for Arcane Trickster rogues and Eldritch Knight fighters, giving them two additional cantrips and 1 additional spell of any school(only first level, but there are enough first-level wizard spells outside abjuration/evocation or enchantment/illusion that they could want to have that that restriction isn't much of one). Moreover, it effectively gives them an additional first-level spell slot. This also goes for bards and warlocks, since all of them are spells-known casters, who use a class list that is accessible through Magic Initiate, and Magic Initiate uses the same text of 'learning' the new spell as those classes' Spellcasting feature does.

[Rukelnikov]

I wonder how this works for the campaigns that already come with a free background feat? Are they using the 5.5 rule, if you already get a feat from background you don't get to choose another one?

[sambojin]

It's be handy on a bugbear moon druid for MI/wiz for gift of Alacrity and two cantrips. Grab Alert at 4th and you have first round +2d6 attacks, all day, every day.

[Quietus]

I wonder how this works for the campaigns that already come with a free background feat? Are they using the 5.5 rule, if you already get a feat from background you don't get to choose another one?

Won't matter in AL, because (unless they've done something I'm not aware of), they aren't running Strixhaven or Dragonlance side-games. More importantly, that "free starting feat" is almost certainly the result of using something like the Astral Adventurer's Guide backgrounds, so even if they did open a Strixhaven or Dragonlance side path, they may not allow AAG material, and if they did, the first-level feat options all conflict with each other, being background features, so you only get to choose one.

[da newt]

If you grab MI, then the first level spell that you get can also be cast with your class spell slots, right? So for example a cleric could grab MI Wiz to gain access to the SHIELD spell to double down on SG & dodge ...

[RogueJK]

If you grab MI, then the first level spell that you get can also be cast with your class spell slots, right? So for example a cleric could grab MI Wiz to gain access to the SHIELD spell to double down on SG & dodge ...

Unfortunately, no.

From the Sage Advice Compendium at https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf


If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?

Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.

In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.


Basically, if you take the Magic Initiate feat for your own class (or a class whose spell list you otherwise have access to, like AT/EK with Wizard) then it becomes a spell known that you can also cast using your spell slots.

But if you take a different class in which you don't have levels, you can only cast that 1st level spell once per day. So a Cleric that takes Magic Initiate Wizard couldn't cast Shield using spell slots, it'd be once per long rest only.


Some of the newer spellcasting feats work differently, like Fey Touched/Shadow Touched. These explicitly say that you can cast the spells from that feat using your spell slots, in addition to the once per day free casting. The upcoming OneD&D version of Magic Initiate also reads that way in the new playtest documents. But the wording of the current official 5E Magic Initiate feat dates from the very beginning of 5E, before the developers decided that they wanted spellcasting feats to work like that, so you're out of luck for now.

(Similar to how racial spells was originally just 1x per day only, but then some of the updated versions of these spellcasting races in MotM now allow you to also cast those racial spells use spell slots you have available.)



So as it currently stands, if you want a Cleric who can cast Shield using spell slots, you'd need to multiclass at least one level into another spellcasting class that gets access to Shield, or else go with the MotM Githzerai race for racial Shield that can be cast using slots too.

[KorvinStarmast]

MI's level 1 spell, I think, pays off best when it is a ritual spell.
Alarm, find familiar, TFD, Unseen Servant. (to name just a few).

[Psyren]

If you grab MI, then the first level spell that you get can also be cast with your class spell slots, right? So for example a cleric could grab MI Wiz to gain access to the SHIELD spell to double down on SG & dodge ...

As noted in the FAQ quote, only if the MI class choice matches your own class. (This is changing in 1DnD however.)

That's still a fantastic choice for a class like Sorcerer however, since they have so few spells known starting out. Even Warlock could benefit, as you'll get a 1/day use of a 1st-level spell that doesn't need your pact slot.

[P. G. Macer]

It's be handy on a bugbear moon druid for MI/wiz for gift of Alacrity and two cantrips. Grab Alert at 4th and you have first round +2d6 attacks, all day, every day.

Unfortunately, gift of alacrity is technically not on the Wizard spell list; it’s one of the spells limited to the Chronurgy subclass, and therefore ineligible for Magic Initiate.

[AttilatheYeon]

I believe it's only tough and skilled. There is a spelljammer background that gives mi:cleric that can also be used.

[cyberfunkr]

MI's level 1 spell, I think, pays off best when it is a ritual spell.
Alarm, find familiar, TFD, Unseen Servant. (to name just a few).

Why would it be better with Ritual spells? MI doesn't use spell slots, so you're not gaining anything there, and you can only cast Ritual spells as a Ritual if your class allows you to. And even then, it doesn't make sense.

Wizards can only cast Ritual spells that are in their spell book; this isn't in your spell book, you just know it.

Clerics and Druids would work, but most of their ritual spells are better as one offs rather than always "memorized".

So rituals would be more likely on the low end of the totem pole for spells to get.

[diplomancer]

So as it currently stands, if you want a Cleric who can cast Shield using spell slots, you'd need to multiclass at least one level into another spellcasting class that gets access to Shield, or else go with the MotM Githzerai race for racial Shield that can be cast using slots too.

Or the Strickhaven background feats, as they use the same wording.

[Cheesegear]

AL now allows players to start PCs with 1 of 3 free feats (tough, skilled, magic initiate).

As I said when 1DD did its dumb stuff. Your individual build doesn't really matter. What matters is the party being greater than the sum of its parts and blowing the DM's encounters out of the water, because that's what power creep is for - beating the DM:

Up to half the party should have Healing Word by default. The players can decide between themselves.
The rest take Skilled in Perception, Insight or Investigation - in that order.
Tough is meaningless.

If the party can pop-up heal, combat encounters are significantly less deadly.
If the party has the three main passive skills covered, they should be able to solve most non-roleplaying challenges, too.

[Keravath]

I believe it's only tough and skilled. There is a spelljammer background that gives mi:cleric that can also be used.

Tough and Skilled are common to all AL campaigns. The campaign specific documentation at the end of the ALPG v13.0 adds the Magic Initiate feat for all AL campaigns except Dragonlance where the MI feat is not an option for AL characters.

BACKGROUNDS that already have a feat do not get to choose another one (as far as I know). You can't double up by taking a Spelljammer or other background with a feat and then adding another feat. On the other hand, it does not affect RACES that have a feat. A custom lineage or variant human character with a feat from the race choice does get to choose one of these background feats.

[AttilatheYeon]

Tough and Skilled are common to all AL campaigns. The campaign specific documentation at the end of the ALPG v13.0 adds the Magic Initiate feat for all AL campaigns except Dragonlance where the MI feat is not an option for AL characters.

BACKGROUNDS that already have a feat do not get to choose another one (as far as I know). You can't double up by taking a Spelljammer or other background with a feat and then adding another feat. On the other hand, it does not affect RACES that have a feat. A custom lineage or variant human character with a feat from the race choice does get to choose one of these background feats.

So it does. Thank you. Glad to be wrong!

[Zuras]

As I said when 1DD did its dumb stuff. Your individual build doesn't really matter. What matters is the party being greater than the sum of its parts and blowing the DM's encounters out of the water, because that's what power creep is for - beating the DM:

Up to half the party should have Healing Word by default. The players can decide between themselves.
The rest take Skilled in Perception, Insight or Investigation - in that order.
Tough is meaningless.

If the party can pop-up heal, combat encounters are significantly less deadly.
If the party has the three main passive skills covered, they should be able to solve most non-roleplaying challenges, too.

The ALPG lets you get Skilled (three extra skills) not Skill Mastery (one extra skill and expertise in one skill). it will let more players be skill monkeys, not allow diversified specialization.

Tough isn’t amazing, but it’s great for a new player who just wants to hang with their friends and hit stuff with their sword.

[Dualight]

Considering the rebuild rules, Tough is also great for early Tier 1 play, as even +2 HP can make a PC go from being downed in 1 hit to being downed in 2 hits, which makes getting an Al character to survive long enough to rebuild much easier.

[Psyren]

Tough and Skilled are common to all AL campaigns. The campaign specific documentation at the end of the ALPG v13.0 adds the Magic Initiate feat for all AL campaigns except Dragonlance where the MI feat is not an option for AL characters.

BACKGROUNDS that already have a feat do not get to choose another one (as far as I know). You can't double up by taking a Spelljammer or other background with a feat and then adding another feat. On the other hand, it does not affect RACES that have a feat. A custom lineage or variant human character with a feat from the race choice does get to choose one of these background feats.

Going back once again to OneD&D - the intent going forward seems to be that racial bonus feats will stack with the bonus feat from background. Humans therefore will start the game with two feats.

[Keravath]

Going back once again to OneD&D - the intent going forward seems to be that racial bonus feats will stack with the bonus feat from background. Humans therefore will start the game with two feats.

The thread is discussing the current rules for creating Adventurers League characters for play in the current Adventurer's League campaigns. In this case, racial feats and background feats are already separated and a variant human or custom lineage can start with any one feat of their choice PLUS either Tough, Skilled or Magic Initiate (for all but the AL DragonLance campaign).

This may also be the plan for One D&D with a possibly enhanced range of feats.

However, when Spelljammer was released, made AL legal and incorporated into the Forgotten Realms campaign, the Spelljammer backgrounds were included and they had a choice of starter feat as part of those backgrounds. In order to balance the situation for all existing AL characters, they decided to allow any background to add one of the three feats to their character for Adventurers League play.

[Cheesegear]

The ALPG lets you get Skilled (three extra skills) not Skill Mastery (one extra skill and expertise in one skill). it will let more players be skill monkeys, not allow diversified specialization.

Strong disagree.

Free Skilled will allow every character, from now on, to be proficient in Perception, Insight and Investigation - in that order.
If you're already proficient in one, two or even all three, then you have free Healing Word, instead.

Adventurer's League just isn't that complicated. It just isn't.

[Psyren]

The thread is discussing the current rules for creating Adventurers League characters for play in the current Adventurer's League campaigns. In this case, racial feats and background feats are already separated and a variant human or custom lineage can start with any one feat of their choice PLUS either Tough, Skilled or Magic Initiate (for all but the AL DragonLance campaign).

This may also be the plan for One D&D with a possibly enhanced range of feats.

However, when Spelljammer was released, made AL legal and incorporated into the Forgotten Realms campaign, the Spelljammer backgrounds were included and they had a choice of starter feat as part of those backgrounds. In order to balance the situation for all existing AL characters, they decided to allow any background to add one of the three feats to their character for Adventurers League play.

I'm aware of what the thread is about, but all I'm saying is that changing the AL chargen rules for all campaigns rather than just DL ones, is most likely a light testing ground for what is expected to come later.

[JNAProductions]

Strong disagree.

Free Skilled will allow every character, from now on, to be proficient in Perception, Insight and Investigation - in that order.
If you're already proficient in one, two or even all three, then you have free Healing Word, instead.

Adventurer's League just isn't that complicated. It just isn't.

You do realize that people can play the game and NOT be obsessed with what's "best", right?

I've made a lot of PCs without Perception proficiency. Because it didn't fit the character. Same with Insight, and Investigation.

[Zuras]

Strong disagree.

Free Skilled will allow every character, from now on, to be proficient in Perception, Insight and Investigation - in that order.
If you're already proficient in one, two or even all three, then you have free Healing Word, instead.

Adventurer's League just isn't that complicated. It just isn't.

All you’re doing if you give everybody insight and investigation is forcing the DM to rule on how many players get to make the relevant checks (and whether they roll openly or hidden).

I agree that Perception is solid enough that you can look at it as a feat tax if you want, but most players will use it to get the appropriate skills they couldn’t fit in for their character concept, like Nature for a Druid or Religion for a Cleric. The players who were optimizing cut the 3rd tier skills but will happily add them for nearly free, while the non-optimizers still aren’t optimizing, they’re just grabbing whatever looks fun or fits their concept.

Generally min-max optimizers will be getting Magic Initiate as you noted, because it gives you vastly more options at lower levels. MI: Wizard lets any Rogue work as an Arcane Trickster-lite starting at first level with Find Familiar, Mage Hand and Minor Illusion. Someone who wants to play support might take Healing Word, but Absorb Elements is likely better on an individual level.

This will definitely encourage more AL DMs to have some session 0 talks about group checks, hidden rolls and what situations are appropriate for constantly casting Guidance.

[Cheesegear]

You do realize that people can play the game and NOT be obsessed with what's "best", right?

1. In Organised Play? In Adventurer's League? Where time comes at a premium and nobody has time for your roleplaying? Where roleplaying takes a backseat to the game, because Adventurer's League doesn't take your personal backstory into account and nothing matters?

2. I'm not talking about what's best. I'm talking about what's useful. I literally don't care if your character has proficiency in History, because it's probably only going to come up exactly once, and even then, there are probably two skills you could use instead to solve the challenge - one of them is almost certainly Perception, Insight or Investigation. Perception, Insight and Investigation aren't just the "best" picks, they're also so much best that any other choice isn't...Smart. And I don't mean 'You chose roleplaying instead hurhur You're having more fun.' ...You chose to have nothing, instead of being useful.

Perception prevents Surprise. Surprise causes you to be literally useless for a round.
Being useless is not only a detriment to yourself, but depending on your role within the party, it could be a detriment to everyone around you, too.

Ergo, Perception prevents uselessness.

You know what happens if you're not proficient in History? ...Usually nothing. You can just roleplay as if you are and nothing changes.


I've made a lot of PCs without Perception proficiency. Because it didn't fit the character. Same with Insight, and Investigation.

Did you have Skilled basically for free when you were making them?
If you didn't take Skilled, were you given the choice for Magic Initiate, instead?


This will definitely encourage more AL DMs to have some session 0 talks about group checks, hidden rolls and what situations are appropriate for constantly casting Guidance.

A big issue that faces many AL DMs is that they don't get to have a Session 0. Because it's AL, and whoever shows up, shows up, with whatever they've got.

[prototype00]

I took Magic Initiate (Druid) as my free starting feat as I wanted Guidance for my go-first bugbear blaster wizard build. It’s also generically useful out of combat. Magic Initiate (Cleric) would have also worked for that but Cleric non-attack cantrips are kind of bleh.

Everything else was free flavour so I just took good berry (basic healing capability and I never go hungry, usable more times than 1xday healing word) and Shape Water (actually came in useful as we needed ice last session!).

Most people default to tough actually, in personal experience, since the party (unless cursed) usually has enough skills to cover the spread. Tough let’s you start with a 14 con and feel like your Hp is rock solid as you level.

[MrStabby]

2. I'm not talking about what's best. I'm talking about what's useful. I literally don't care if your character has proficiency in History, because it's probably only going to come up exactly once, and even then, there are probably two skills you could use instead to solve the challenge - one of them is almost certainly Perception, Insight or Investigation. Perception, Insight and Investigation aren't just the "best" picks, they're also so much best that any other choice isn't...Smart. And I don't mean 'You chose roleplaying instead hurhur You're having more fun.' ...You chose to have nothing, instead of being useful.


Huh. History can be a bit of an all purpose skill at some tables. It seems pretty broad:

"I try and recall a battle against trolls and what weapons were used to defeat them"
"I try and remember old accounts of heroes that travelled in this area and what waylaid them"
"I might have seen a discussion of the secret entrance in an old book. I try and remember if anything was written on the topic"

[Cheesegear]

Huh. History can be a bit of an all purpose skill at some tables.

This isn't about "some tables", it's about Adventurer's League.


"I try and recall a battle against trolls and what weapons were used to defeat them"
"I try and remember old accounts of heroes that travelled in this area and what waylaid them"
"I might have seen a discussion of the secret entrance in an old book. I try and remember if anything was written on the topic"

What happens, if you fail all of those checks. Is the answer 'Nothing happens.' because I'm willing to bet that the difference between succeeding or failing on those kinds of checks is very minimal. You would have to concoct a scenario where the only way you can enter the tomb is if you knew about the secret entrance before you got there. No DM is going to prepare a tomb - let alone one in a published module for the night - and then not have their players get in because none of them could pass a DC 15 History check.

Some of you drove 25 minutes to be here, and I know we've got three hours in the session left...But you didn't pass that History check, so that means we can't run this module tonight. So I'm gonna head to KFC, we can have dinner. Otherwise, see you next week. Make sure to bring a character Proficient in History next time.

Uhh...DM...You sure we can't just...Look for the secret entrance? Using Perception or Investigation? I dunno. Maybe we take a few hours and just succeed eventually?
Nope. History check or nothing.

I'm not saying that History can't be useful. I'm not saying that maybe, possibly, potentially, you might need History to overcome a scenario slightly easier and/or in a quicker timeframe. I bet you can't wait to bust out your History Proficiency and all your skill dot will have finally paid off.

What I am saying, is that Perception, Investigation and Insight are the most valuable Skills, the most often. And failing those kinds of checks have significant consequences; You get Surprised by hostiles, you get hit by traps, and you get given the runaround by NPCs. Three things that you really don't want to happen to you or your party. And, as always, when it comes to group checks (which again, those three are the most common, by far), the more people in the party with Proficiency, the better.

Alright team; Can I get a Group History check?
A...Are you serious?

[prototype00]

“Alright team; Can I get a Group History check?
A...Are you serious?”

Considering how many player builds default to “hot idiots”, I can see table riots over this, lol.

[Rukelnikov]

This isn't about "some tables", it's about Adventurer's League.



What happens, if you fail all of those checks. Is the answer 'Nothing happens.' because I'm willing to bet that the difference between succeeding or failing on those kinds of checks is very minimal. You would have to concoct a scenario where the only way you can enter the tomb is if you knew about the secret entrance before you got there. No DM is going to prepare a tomb - let alone one in a published module for the night - and then not have their players get in because none of them could pass a DC 15 History check.

Some of you drove 25 minutes to be here, and I know we've got three hours in the session left...But you didn't pass that History check, so that means we can't run this module tonight. So I'm gonna head to KFC, we can have dinner. Otherwise, see you next week. Make sure to bring a character Proficient in History next time.

Uhh...DM...You sure we can't just...Look for the secret entrance? Using Perception or Investigation? I dunno. Maybe we take a few hours and just succeed eventually?
Nope. History check or nothing.

I'm not saying that History can't be useful. I'm not saying that maybe, possibly, potentially, you might need History to overcome a scenario slightly easier and/or in a quicker timeframe. I bet you can't wait to bust out your History Proficiency and all your skill dot will have finally paid off.

What I am saying, is that Perception, Investigation and Insight are the most valuable Skills, the most often. And failing those kinds of checks have significant consequences; You get Surprised by hostiles, you get hit by traps, and you get given the runaround by NPCs. Three things that you really don't want to happen to you or your party. And, as always, when it comes to group checks (which again, those three are the most common, by far), the more people in the party with Proficiency, the better.

Alright team; Can I get a Group History check?
A...Are you serious?

Sounds like the kind of game where "ok, you take 2 torches time to find the entrance" might be punishing enough, like in Darkest Dungeon.

[Leon]

1. In Organised Play? In Adventurer's League? Where time comes at a premium and nobody has time for your roleplaying? Where roleplaying takes a backseat to the game, because Adventurer's League doesn't take your personal backstory into account and nothing matters?


So ROLLplaying at its finest eh, sounds frankly a terrible thing to play in.

[prototype00]

So ROLLplaying at its finest eh, sounds frankly a terrible thing to play in.

It’s all right, quite enjoyable even, if the strategic layer of combat and the infinite variation of PC abilities vs monster weirdness is your cup of tea.

It doesn’t have time for your two page backstory, but if you happen to have the fortune of playing in a published Hardcover, you can get quite a lot of interaction with the metaplot (for example Descent into Avernus).

If you are just playing a mod, my best advice is run with it and see where the adventure takes you, it really is about the journey at that point, not you as an individual.

[Cheesegear]

So ROLLplaying at its finest eh

Adventurer's League is where only your Bond, Ideal, Personality and Flaw, matter.
Your backstory, doesn't.

[Melil12]

Int is just a very weak stat minus Wizards and Artificers.

Most campaigns don’t fall apart if the PCs don’t know something.

[stoutstien]

Int is just a very weak stat minus Wizards and Artificers.

Most campaigns don’t fall apart if the PCs don’t know something.

*Laughs in 100% custom setting*

[RogueJK]

Int is just a very weak stat minus Wizards and Artificers.


Until the DM develops a campaign/plot that revolves primarily around Mind Flayers and Intellect Devourers. Then all the folks normally in the habit of dumping INT will be scrambling to make smart PCs once the first batch of characters have their brains consumed. :smallbiggrin:


Plus, there are non-Wizard/Artificer subclasses whose abilities key off INT, including the Psi Warrior and Eldritch Knight Fighter, and the Arcane Trickster Rogue.

And Rogues in general (or characters of other classes who want to be effective at disarming traps) benefit from at least a moderate INT, since Intelligence governs the Investigation and Arcana skills, both of which play a key role in disarming traps.

[Melil12]

Until the DM develops a campaign/plot that revolves primarily around Mind Flayers and Intellect Devourers.

Then all the folks normally in the habit of dumping INT will be scrambling to make smart PCs once the first batch of characters have their brains consumed. :smallbiggrin:


In addition, there are non-Wizard/Artificer subclasses whose abilities key off INT, including the Psi Warrior and Eldritch Knight Fighter, and the Arcane Trickster Rogue.

And Rogues in general (or characters of other classes who want to be effective at disarming traps) benefit from at least a moderate INT, since Intelligence governs the Investigation and Arcana skills, both of which play a key role in disarming traps.

Funny story, we are doing an Adventure with my current group of meat head adventurers. And our latest mission is to explore a Mind Flayers downed ship. Yup we are all sweating it lol minus the Paladin and Wizard.

I can’t speak for the Psi warrior, but most EKs for sure plan to dump int or at least not invest in it. They tend to take spells that don’t require saves ect.
Though all my EK builds bump it up to 14/16 :-) cuz what fun is a spell caster fighter without cool spells.

This all just builds off of what I had said previously. It’s a weak stat until a GM makes it a specific point to call it out. You don’t have to put specific situations in for a str dex con wis save … they will almost always come up at some point.

[Psyren]

Int is just a very weak stat minus Wizards and Artificers.

Most campaigns don’t fall apart if the PCs don’t know something.

I mean, they usually don't "fall apart" if you fail Stealth, Perception, social rolls or any other check either. That doesn't mean that having someone good at Int isn't beneficial to the group. If nothing else, Investigation and Arcana tend to come up pretty often at a lot of tables.

[Keravath]

Int is just a very weak stat minus Wizards and Artificers.

Most campaigns don’t fall apart if the PCs don’t know something.

I'd suggest that if a campaign falls apart because the PCs don't know something or because a critical plot point hinges on one specific skill check that the issue is the DM and the campaign design and has little or nothing to do with the players.

If there is something the players need to know, it is up to the DM to get them that information so that the module/campaign remains fun and playable. If something depends on a skill check it is up to the DM to decide if the content gated by that skill check is essential or non-essential. If it is essential then the DM needs to have multiple methods to solve the problem (or be content with the problem remaining unsolved - and thus non-essential) since the expectation is that the party will eventually have to solve the problem whatever it might be.

If the outcome of a campaign relies on a die roll or skill check requiring a specific skill or proficiency - it is just bad design.

P.S. AL has as much or as little role playing as you like to put in. Some folks like it, some folks don't. Your backstory doesn't usually have an impact on the story but sometimes an impact can be added narratively if the AL DM wants to make the effort. Background mechanical effects can certainly have an effect on how modules and hardcovers play out. Anyway, I've played and run AL campaigns as well as homebrew - there is no reason not to role play if that is what the players want to do. Sometimes they are in to it, sometimes not and other times all it takes is a little encouragement.

[Kaviyd]

AL now allows players to start PCs with 1 of 3 free feats (tough, skilled, magic initiate). While I'm not a big fan of the continued power creep (especially when the modules were written / 'balanced' for PHB only), I'm curious what sorts of build shenanigans y'all could come up with to take advantage of this new option - So what would you do with this and WHY?

Exactly where was this free feat announced as being legal for AL? It does not seem to be in either of the Player's Guides located at https://dnd.wizards.com/adventurers-league/player-info. (Sorry I couldn't post this as a link.)

[Zuras]

Exactly where was this free feat announced as being legal for AL? It does not seem to be in either of the Player's Guides located at https://dnd.wizards.com/adventurers-league/player-info. (Sorry I couldn't post this as a link.)


The v13 of the ALPG and ALDMG are on the D&D discord. I don’t think the website has them up yet.

[da newt]

Adventurer's League is where only your Bond, Ideal, Personality and Flaw, matter.
Your backstory, doesn't.

I completely agree but would add the caveat that they only matter 'as much as YOU make them.' It could be 0 or 100%, but yeah the adventure mod as written won't change and the DM probably has no idea.

I'll also throw out that AL mods have all sorts of poorly designed skill check or save or puzzle answers that act as gates to play - if you don't do this one thing, it's a dead end, might as well go to KFC now - that the DM's have to manufacture solutions to so the party can proceed. Some of these things are terribly written and proof read.

Yeah V13 isn't on the website itself ...