On incorporeal nova, list of incorporeal creatures

[ciopo]

Greetings fellow forumites.

The campaign I'm in on tuesdays, incorporeal enemies have been somewhat common.

we've recently leveled to 17, I'm doing an arcane hierophant and with this last hierophant level my sha'ir casting went from 12th level to 13th level, unlocking a third 6th level spell known.

I've been thinking about incorporeal nova, which seemed very juicy, until that last paragraph saying that creatures with 9 or more HD are unaffected.

This excludes greater shadows and greater wraiths, but is fine for shadows, wraiths, spectres.

I wonder if anyone can list me what other incorporeal might be included or not included? The other foes we've seen are called tragedies ( war of the burning sky is the campaign) which I don't know how many HD have but it felt around 60or so HP, so probably below that 9HD divider.

For reference, my two other "known" 6th level arcane spell are contingency (for contingent death ward) and disintegrate (for wall of forces mainly, because they were foreshadowed just prior to our leveling up to 16th, and so I picked the hard counter)


The other question I have is : do I need line of sight/effect for incorporeal nova, or does it affect possible incorporeal that are hiding inside the walls?

Thankee sai

[Inevitability]

In the SRD, you missed out on allips and unbodied.

Obviously a lot of incorporeals are going to be templated (ghost, vivacious, umbral), so some of those as well.

[Beni-Kujaku]

May I recommend this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?402179-The-Monster-Compendium) listing all creatures printed in 3.x, including their subtypes. You can pretty effectively look for all incorporeal creatures.

[Fero]

Incorporeal Nova is odd in that it is a targeted spell that includes an AoE descriptor "burst." I believe RAW targeted spells need LoS. However, the inclusion of the burst descriptor indicates an intent to have the spell function similar to AoE burst spells (i.e. you can hit foes outside your LoS so long as you have LoS to the center of the burst and the center of the burst has LoE to the foe). In other words, I would say RAW you need LoS to each target but RaI you do not (I personally find the RaI more compelling but others may disagree).

The HD restriction for Incorporeal Nova because incorporeal is interesting undead tend to have low HD relative to CR. As such, most, but not all, undead are affected. However, you mention that the primary undead your currently fight have around 60 hp. This puts them right at, or even over, the 9 HD restriction. As such, the incorporeal undead you face going forward will probably be over 9 HD. In addition, the spell allows a will save and undead have good will saves. Therefore, the spell will probably have less long term effect than you hope.

If you can spare a feat, Transdimensional Spell is probably your best tool against incorporeal undead due to their low HP per CR.

[Anthrowhale]

Haunt Shift is lower level and perhaps typically as effective as Incorporeal Nova?

For your 7th level slot, you might consider Ghost Trap which is pretty devastating to incorporeal types as it sucks to be corporeal with strength a nonability.

[Biggus]

This is the official monster list for 3E: https://web.archive.org/web/20161031212207/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters

Ctrl+F search for "Incorporeal" comes up with 74 matches.

Not sure if this is better or worse for your purposes than the list Beni-Kujaku posted, but you may find it useful.

[ciopo]

Yay for the monster compendium link! Thank you Beni


Haunt shift is new to me, it looks promising. Sadly there are commonish campaign specific enemy that are incorporeal aberrations tho, the three themes of "the villains" are summoned devils, undeads (wraiths, most commonly wraiths and lolskeletons so far) and those "maybe enemy/maybe not" aberrations

I'm most likely taking banish as my second 7th level arcane pick, due to continuity of theme (entering sacred exorcist, those annoying devils). But that's if I advance sha'ir rather than druid with that level (haven't decided yet if I care about 7th level arcane more than 8th level divine). Other one "known" if I go more arcane will be open lesser chakra

It's funny you mention making them corporeal, there is a campaign specific bardic performance that enforces corporeality, but it gives a STR score based on size, it's more useful to prevent pesky bosses from running away by crossing walls/ceilings/floors than for killing purposes


Anyone got anything on "is incorporeal nova stopped by walls?" I'm fairly sure that , by the rules, it is stopped

[Fero]

Haunt Shift is lower level and perhaps typically as effective as Incorporeal Nova?

For your 7th level slot, you might consider Ghost Trap which is pretty devastating to incorporeal types as it sucks to be corporeal with strength a nonability.

Make Manifest (6), Make Manifest Mass (8), Zone of Respite (5), and Resilient Sphere may also be worth considering.

[Anthrowhale]

...summoned devils, undeads (wraiths, most commonly wraiths and lolskeletons so far) and those "maybe enemy/maybe not" aberrations

Who is doing the summoning?

You may want to check out Celestial Brilliance. Precast it on a harpoon for extra "no you can't run away from me" fun. Add in precast Sacred Item for some extra oomph if you have a cleric.



I'm most likely taking banish as my second 7th level arcane pick, due to continuity of theme (entering sacred exorcist, those annoying devils). But that's if I advance sha'ir rather than druid with that level (haven't decided yet if I care about 7th level arcane more than 8th level divine). Other one "known" if I go more arcane will be open lesser chakra

The time for picking up an unknown arcane spell (minutes) is not to large for a Sha'ir. All you need is see the spell once---maybe just buy a scroll and cast it from the scroll once.


Anyone got anything on "is incorporeal nova stopped by walls?" I'm fairly sure that , by the rules, it is stopped
No, they have total cover.

[ciopo]

Who is doing the summoning?

You may want to check out Celestial Brilliance. Precast it on a harpoon for extra "no you can't run away from me" fun. Add in precast Sacred Item for some extra oomph if you have a cleric.

The time for picking up an unknown arcane spell (minutes) is not to large for a Sha'ir. All you need is see the spell once---maybe just buy a scroll and cast it from the scroll once.

No, they have total cover.

Mostly inquisitors of the mostly orcish empire

I know of celestial brilliance, it's been resolved to "lol look at this, days of duration, no save, no SR?" being softbanned ala gentlebeing agreement something like 8 levels ago

I am already using banish as arcane unknown, it's less of a matter of ease of use here, and more a matter of concept continuity, kinda? not concept really, but it's a natural progression of stuff really, which compounds a "meh" feel when I have to send the familiar companion away to fetch those "witnessed" spells, because then all those juicy buffs it has thanks to enspell familiar falls off (and they are multiple 17+hours/duration spells, all four hearth of X, greater luminous armour, superior resistance, flavor of the day energy immunity, multiple greater magic fang to cover claw/claw/bite all at +4, most of the "primal X") there is a bit of homebrew in how the sha'ir gen familiar technically wouldn't qualify for familiar companion to be merged into.

That's what I thought about the walls, and I can't think of anything to affect them behind obstacles. It's been fine when they come out, it's when they raise more wraiths with prisoners-just-out-of-sight that's getting my goat here!

@Fero Resilient sphere is one I picked already. Those other you mention are about planar effects, am I missing something in how it interacts with incorporeal creatures?


Thanks again for feedback, it's always appreciated

[Anthrowhale]

...I can't think of anything to affect them behind obstacles...
If you know they are there, then maybe cast Ghost Trap followed by disintegrate applied to the wall. They'll be SR:No Save:No trapped in a corporeal state and can be dealt with conventionally.

[Thurbane]

Here's a quick search/filter.

8HD or less:


Allip
Bane Wraith
Beastwraith
Bhut
Cache Dweller
Crypt Chanter
Cursed Spirit
Deadwood Revenant
Demon, Caligostro
Demon, Guecubu
Dungeon Phantom
Earth Whisper
Elemental, Shadow, Large
Elemental, Shadow, Medium
Elemental, Shadow, Small
Energon, Xac-Yel
Energon, Xac-Yij
Energon, Xag-Az
Energon, Xag-Ya
Energon, Xap-Yaup
Energon, Xeg-Yi
Energon, Xong-Yong
Energon, Xor-Yost
Film of Night
Fire Spectre
Ghosteater (incorporeal)
Ghosteater (manifested fully)
Ghostly Visage
Haunt, Taunting
Incarnum Wraith
Joystealer
Mist Wolf
Murk
Quell
Rainbow Dweller
Shadow
Shadowen
Spectral Lyrist
Spectral Panther
Spectral Steed (incorporeal)
Spectral Steed (manifested fully)
Spectre
Spiritus Anime
Symbiont, Shadow Sibling
Thanoi (Walrus-folk)
Trilloch
Umbral Spy
Unbodied
Unraveler
Urdark
Voidwraith
Wraith
Wraith, Sea


9 HD or more:


Abomination, Phane
Aspect of Pale Night
Banshee
Blade Spirit
Caller in Darkness
Casurua
Crimson Death
Crossroads Guardian
Deathshrieker
Deathshrieker, Advanced
Demon, Dybbuk
Demon, Manitou
Demon, Shadow
Demon, Whisper
Dream Vestige
Dreamfane
Effigy
Eladrin, Tulani (globe form)
Elemental, Shadow, Elder
Elemental, Shadow, Greater
Elemental, Shadow, Huge
Energon, Spiritovore, Soulmarauder
Energon, Spiritovore, Soulscaper
Energon, Spiritovore, Soulsipper
Ephemeral Swarm
Faerinaal (The Queen's Consort) (globe form)
Forgewraith
Glamer
Glimmerskin
Golem Remnant
Golem, Prismatic
Gwynharwyf (The Whirling Fury) (whirlwind form)
Haunt, Bridge
Haunt, Forest
Hoarfroster
Jahi
Mind Shard of Pandorym
Morwel (Queen of Stars) (globe form)
Neh-Thalggu (Brain Collector)
Ooze, Ethereal (ethereal)
Ooze, Ethereal (manifested)
Orb Wraith
Pale Night (The Mother of Demons)
Phantasmal Slayer
Rhyxali (Demon Princess of Shadow) (incorporeal)
Shadow of the Void
Shadow, Greater
Shape of Fire
Spectral Lurker
Spirit of the Land (natural form)
Thaumavore
Thunder Worm
Wraith, Dread
Zeitgeist (natural form)

[Quertus]

Anyone got anything on "is incorporeal nova stopped by walls?" I'm fairly sure that , by the rules, it is stopped


No, they have total cover.

Hmmm… incorporeal creatures can pass through Corporal walls -> Corporal walls do not provide cover vs incorporeal creatures. If “incorporeal nova” is not just meant to be “a nova vs the incorporeal”, but “a nova which is itself incorporeal”, then walls should provide no cover against its effects. Which may explain the purportedly odd targeting line?

That said, I’m personally not a fan of effects with HD limits. If I were you, I’d ask the GM if you could invent a new custom spells, that (say) shoots out a burst of incorporeal spikes, dealing unambiguous damage to incorporeal creatures (unambiguously including one hiding in walls) for d6 / level or something, and call it a day.

Or… is there a metamagic you can add to spells to allow them to affect incorporeal targets?

[Fero]

Mostly inquisitors of the mostly orcish empire

@Fero Resilient sphere is one I picked already. Those other you mention are about planar effects, am I missing something in how it interacts with incorporeal creatures?

Thanks again for feedback, it's always appreciated

Not really but for the limited subset of undead that manifest from one plane to another, most notably ghosts. I understood that your DM is using some custom undead say those spells may be useful if said undead manifest. Sorry for the pack of explanation before.

[Eurus]

...I never noticed that incorporeal nova has the [Death] tag. Undeath to death specifically doesn't, for hopefully obvious reasons. Considering that the spell's description specifically describes it working on undead, maybe it's supposed to ignore that immunity.

[Jack_Simth]

Or… is there a metamagic you can add to spells to allow them to affect incorporeal targets?
Transdimensional Spell, found in:
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Unapproachable East.
+1 MM in all three versions, explicitly works on incorporeals too. Also good for zapping folks hiding out in a Rope Trick or Magnificent Mansion.