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View Full Version : How to build a good dwarf fighter/cleric



metalbear
2007-12-03, 01:58 AM
I want to play a tank cleric in my next campaign. Right now I'm thinking a dwarf with a few levels in fighter, then change over to cleric. I was wondering what feats, skills, equipment, ect. I should get. Same with tactics that would be helpful. Any suggestions would be great.

RoboticSheeple
2007-12-03, 02:12 AM
I'm actually playing a Dwarf Cleric in a campaign now (sub-optimal build).

The first question is why have levels of fighter? You'll get Divine Power as a lvl 4 cleric spell which negates the difference in BAB. the difference between a d10 and d8 is slim, and you don't actually need many feats that are on the fighter bonus feat list.
I'd recommend taking the 4th lvl cleric sub from Races of Stone and using a warhammer for a small boost to damage with it. Then taking one level of BattleSmith (same book) to add your Wisdom mod to damage with your warhammer.
(or at least that's my sub-optimal build plan, take what you want from it)

Consider getting the Strength domain, Enlarge Person is a great first lvl spell. At early levels Divine Favor, Enlarge Person, Magic Weapon, and Shield of Faith all stack to turn you into a melee monster at levels 2 and 3.

And really that is your tactic, look for small bonuses that you can stack rather than one uber bonus because you won't find anything like that.

metalbear
2007-12-03, 02:16 AM
I was thinking some levels of fighter so i can get the extra feat.

Ganurath
2007-12-03, 02:19 AM
I want to play a tank cleric in my next campaign. Right now I'm thinking a dwarf with a few levels in fighter, then change over to cleric. I was wondering what feats, skills, equipment, ect. I should get. Same with tactics that would be helpful. Any suggestions would be great.I actually have a Cleric build in the works that is combat oriented and won't require any levels in Fighter... I will demand devotion to Hextor though.

1-5 Cleric of Hextor
6-10 Ordained Champion (Complete Champion)
11+ Warpriest (Complete Divine)

Tactics early on: Armor up, grab a flail, and get to smashing. Unless the DM is naive enough to throw undead at you with low enough HD that you can command, not much to say beyond work on PrC requirements. If the DM does, though, feel free to use your minions as meatshields while spontaneously inflicting to keep them afloat.

So you're an Ordained Champion: Get in there and mix it up, now more than ever. If you haven't taken Extra Turning by now, it wouldn't hurt: Even if it was a wasted effort before, you can covert them into smites at level 7, followed by Wisdom on attack and damage rolls at 10. You'll want good Wis too, since you'll be cracking tougher nuts with swift flame strikes.

11+: By now your musclehead has gotten a little distracted by nonviolent solutions in the form of Diplomacy and enchantments. Let it flow: The more fights you avoid without using resources, the tougher you'll be to crack when the gauntlet is inevitably thrown. The warpriest's abilities should deal with your difficulties in the area of crowd control nicely, making it easier to save the flame strikes for the big fights.

Items and Feats... This build is a work in progress. The OC lets you swap Domain Powers for Fighter Feats, though.

Reel On, Love
2007-12-03, 02:20 AM
What books can you use?

daggaz
2007-12-03, 02:23 AM
First, dont bother with fighter. A dwarf cleric makes a solid frontline man, and you dont want to lose the CL, that hurts.

If you are going for the fighter-esque look, good domains that are easily available to dwarves are war and strength. You can worship Clangeddin Silverbeard and get war and strength, for example, and if your DM is nice he will let you use a dwarven waraxe as silverbeards favored weapon, instead of a battleaxe, as for some reason silverbeard didnt catch the 3.5 weapons upgrade.. This is good because then you are two handing. So now with war you pick up free martial weapon prof in his weapon, and weapon focus in the same. With str you get to add your class level to str once a day, and get access to enlarge person, for melee-mashing goodness.

Other more valuable domains are Travel, Luck, Magic, and Trickery. Pick these for the awesome spells they provide which you dont normally have access too, and their cool domain powers. Travel is especially helpful to dwarves, as you get longstrider to help with that dismally low 20 ft speed, as well as dim door, fly and teleport etc.. plus you get freedom of movement as a domain power. that is just a win domain.

My personal fav is taking War and Travel, but depending on the campaign, you cant always cherry pick your domains =(.

As for feats, you dont get a whole lot of them, so it depends a bit on your build too. Power Attack is a must, but you definitely need to get ahold of a 2handed weapon to optimise it fully. I like taking combat expertise/improved trip, but it requires a trip weapon and can be hard to get as a cleric at low levels, because of all the feats needed. Having a high int tho is nice benefit for your otherwise crappy skills, as well. The dwarven stability really syngergizes well with improved trip, for when you fail your attempt.

Extend spell is nice for all your many buffs, and quicken is a must, either at ninth or 12th.

Divine Favor, divine power, and righteous might, along with other longer lasting buffs such as bears str, bulls endurance, enlarge person (if you got it), bless, magic circle vs X, etc, etc,....wade into battle and you can easily outperform a fighter.

tyckspoon
2007-12-03, 02:28 AM
I would start with Cleric and move into Fighter later, unless you're planning to do something that takes a lot of feats. The armor proficiencies are the same, spells are something you want to get access to as soon as you can, and the difference between a maxed first level d8 and d10 can easily be made up for with a good Con, like the one you get for being a dwarf.

Your stats should prioritize Strength, Con, and Wis in roughly equal amounts; if you can get all three to around 16, you should be be good. Dex/Cha/Int should ideally not have a penalty, which might be hard to avoid on Charisma (yes, you will suck at turning undead. This is why you are a tanking cleric; you smash them apart with your mace/greatsword/dwarf waraxe instead.) Those stats shouldn't be hard to achieve if rolled; they might be undoable on low pointbuys.

Pick your domains carefully. You want ones that either have good granted spells you wouldn't be able to acquire otherwise or that have nifty domain powers (or, ideally, both. Travel is a good example of this- Freedom of Movement granted power plus fun arcane transport spells like fly and teleport. Longstrider is a nice 1st level domain spell to help counter your lower base speed.) War is probably not a good choice; since you're planning to take Fighter levels, you'll be getting martial proficiency anyway.

Your gear is going to look a lot like a normal fighter's. Get into a suit of full plate as soon as you can afford it, grab a two-handed weapon, and smash things into the dirt. You're already reasonably good at it, and if you get a chance to buff first with things like Divine Power, Enlarge Person, and Divine Favor, you're really good at it. If you prefer being hard to hit then use a shield instead; this will significantly reduce your damage output. Eventually you can combine the two by using an animated shield or grabbing a buckler and the Improved Buckler Defense feat.

Feats: Pick your favorite effective fighter build and copy it. Leap Attack + Power Attack+ Shock Trooper + charging with a two-handed weapon is the gold standard for melee-er damage dealing. Your Cha is likely to suck; if it doesn't or you acquire some magic items that provide extra Turnings, look into the range of Divine feats that let you use a Turn attempt to power a variety of effects.

Don't worry much about your skills. You're combining two classes with bad skill points per level and your Int probably won't be one of your high stats. The best use for them is probably to look for a prestige class you like and devote your skill points to qualifying for it.

Edit: Hah. MMON'd.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-03, 02:29 AM
I agree with the Nix the fighter sentiment. A cleric is better w/o fighter levels, due to better buff access, and quicker buff access. If you think about it, gishing a cleric is silly, because a cleric is a gish by itself.

Full BAB is overrated anyway.

Of course, you might want to take a few fighter levels, just so you don't make everyone else look bad. Just remember that a cleric that takes fighter levels is actively nerfing himself.

bbugg
2007-12-03, 10:38 AM
I'm currently playing a dwarven tank cleric. I had the same debate as you - is it worth it to take a fighter level or two. I even started this thread (http:////www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62595) to debate it, and the result was a resounding 'NO'. Don't bother with the fighter.

I have war and travel as domains and it works really well. Hanseath (dwarven CN god of beer and brawling) (RoS) grants them and makes for a fun character to play! I took power attack and Travel Devotion (CD) as my feats and that seems to have worked out. Travel Devotion hasn't been terribly useful yet, but I imagine it will be and it fits the character concept.

Lekkarion
2009-08-21, 06:34 PM
for the campaign I'm getting ready to play, our DM has it laid out to start at lvl 1 all the way to lvl 20+

So some of what I'm doing will be because he's already told us magic items are going to be a little scarce, so the feats I've taken/plan to take are

Spell Casting Prodigy, Extra Turning, Brutal Throw, Craft Magic Weapons/armor, Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Divine Metamagic (persistant spell).

One idea is to use Divine Metamagic/persistant spell and most of my turnings to give my character an all day Divine Power.

For Domains he took War and Dwarf, Silverbeard as his deity and my DM is rulling that the dwarven waraxe counts for the spirtual weapon.

Anyways, it'll be a pretty good build, makes my cleric a pretty solid tank and lets him use his other buffs and spell slots by paying for one really awesome buff with turnings.

Just a thought.

Haven
2009-08-21, 06:44 PM
Do you have ToB access? Try dipping a martial adept class--I'd suggest Swordsage for the AC bonus, although Warblade's BAB and d12 HP might also be good for your concept. But they're easily better than being a fighter, and you still advance in them while leveling as a cleric.

Eldariel
2009-08-21, 06:54 PM
I'd go:
Cleric 20 (or appropriate PrCs with full casting): Archetypal Cleric Warrior.
Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5/Fist of Raziel 10: More martial Cleric Warrior.
Crusader 1/Cleric 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/X 5: ToB Cleric Warrior.


Ordained Champion and Ruby Knight Vindicator need to be adapted to appropriate deity (probably Moradin here) but that's hardly a problem. Any of those will do just fine.

erikun
2009-08-21, 07:45 PM
3.5e, I take it?

Maybe Cleric 3/Fighter 1/Cleric 2/Fighter 1/Cleric 13. The end result is Cleric 18/Fighter 2, but delaying the fighter levels so it doesn't (grossly) interrupt your spellcasting.

Or, you could just take a Cleric with a War domain, and smash people's faces in with your weapon of choice.

AslanCross
2009-08-21, 08:29 PM
If you really want the bonus feats, you could take levels of Ordained Champion, as mentioned above. You really don't need Fighter levels.

Doc Roc
2009-08-21, 08:33 PM
Let me weigh in in favor of RkV and Ordained Champion. Those are two of the only PrCs I'll lose caster levels for. If you MUST do something beaty, ask your GM if sacred fist follows the text or the table.

What level are you starting at? Optimization is hugely different depending on if you're 1-5 or 15-20.

HCL
2009-08-21, 08:39 PM
At a glance I would recommend either Fangalarn (luck and travel domains) or Hanseath from Races of Stone (travel, war, or strength domains: favored weapon greataxe)

If you pick hanseath and take the war domain I think you get both the weapon proficiency and weapon focus for greataxe making fighter pretty much redundant. I would generally rather be power attacking with a greataxe than using hammer/shield.

Doc Roc
2009-08-21, 08:45 PM
I would recommend Hanseath for different but not incompatible reasons.

Travel Devotion, from complete champion.
Ordained Champion, from complete champion.

Apart, good.
Together, delectable.