Fire Emblem Engage: Twelve Rings to Rule Them All

[Zevox]

Four Rings for the Blue-Hair Lords, with swords held high,
Three for the Green Maidens and the Teacher enthroned,
Two for the Red-heads, whose enemies fry,
One for the White Mage, with her light tome,
And two for the misfits whose hair isn't dyed.
Twelve Rings to rule them all, Twelve Rings to find them,
Twelve Rings to unite them all; against the Fell Dragon, bind him.
In the land of Elyos where sleeping dragons lie.

Ahem. So, I know there's at least a few of us playing this - what's everyone think so far?

Personally, it's been about what I was expecting. Basically a return to the usual for the series. Characters feel a lot flatter and more one-note than in Three Houses, and the plot is another variant of the same sort that the series started with way back in game 1. The only plot twists that I feel like have been set up at the point I'm at (Chapter 9)...
I think that Alear will turn out not to be related to Queen Lumera directly, but adopted in some way. Her dying remarks that "becoming" Alear's mother was the happiest thing to ever happen to her, and the way she corrected herself from saying "being" to "becoming," seems quite suspect; and when you see the villains talk amongst themselves, they express that they didn't know Alear existed (despite this seemingly being common knowledge to the rest of the world...) and not being sure when Lumera had a child. So yeah, seems to me to point to a "she's not your real mother" reveal coming at some point.

I also think there's some shenanigans afoot with what really put Alear in their coma, likely involving time travel in some fashion. Because that opening scene that the game seems to set up as being the end of the war a thousand years ago very conspicuously includes four characters that will join you throughout this game - Princes Alfred of Firene and Diamant of Brodia, Princess Ivy of Elusia, and the other girl who I assume is the Princess of the fourth nation I haven't run into yet. All using the Emblems their nation hold during the events of the game (again, assuming the fourth one matches, but that seems a forgone conclusion since the other three do). I also thought that Alfred saying he thinks of you as a "very old friend" specifically, and then seeming more concerned about your amnesia than the others pointed to him having known you before, but after meeting Diamant and Ivy there's been no similar hints of them knowing Alear already, so that's more up in the air for me at the moment. Regardless though, unless they were just super lazy and decided that those characters' ancestors look exactly like them because it saves on making new character models, something's up with that opening scene, and it feels like it probably points to time travel in one direction or another being involved at some point.

Although maybe it was just a flash-forward to something that happens later in the game just to confuse us I guess - IIRC they did a similar thing in Awakening, now that I'm thinking about it...
Gameplay-wise, it's fun. I like that weapon durability is nixed again, like in Fates - repairs were so easy in Three Houses that it had negligible impact on things besides limiting how much you used the Heroes Relics, but still, it's not a mechanic I've ever felt was really a positive for any game. I also like the Emblem mechanic in concept, although in practice sometimes they feel rather overpowered. Marth especially with how much evade he adds and how easily his Loadstar Rush attack just slaughters anything that isn't high-defense, but also Sigurd's ridiculous mobility and getting extra damage for how many spaces you move before attacking, and Celica's Warp Ragnarok move, just for the first three you pick up. For the other three I have already, I'll toss it in a spoiler just to be safe.
Roy's ridiculous thing is giving the character that engages with him a temporary +5 to their level and corresponding stat increase, so yeah, obviously nuts. And Leif has an ability that causes your character to automatically equip the most advantageous weapon versus an attacker when attacked, and he gives you proficiency in just about everything as you level him up, and has a move that lets you attack four times if you have specifically a sword, axe, lance, and bow to use - and his special weapon is an axe, so he provides one of the three automatically. Yeah, also nuts.

The only one that isn't crazy is Micaiah. Her main thing is just letting anyone use staffs and turning any heal staff into esentially a physic when engaged, which is good, but not crazy like the others. Her big move is an instant full heal to all allies, but reduces the unit she's engaged with to 1 health to use it. It's theoretically reall strong, but I've yet to have need of it, and I'm playing on hard difficulty.

There's other interesting things, like the "chain guard" ability that healer/monks get being a neat addition to their repetoire - although I'm not a big fan of fist combat now being a thing for the healers, since it's, ah, ridiculously weak on them. Poison from thieves' knives now causing characters to take extra damage from any hits they take thereafter instead of being the usual damage-over-time thing is neat as well, though in practice I don't find myself using it much - might just be because my thief is still lagging behind the team in levels, so I'm usually trying to give her kills, though. The new mechanics from the "great" weapons are interesting too, I'm only just getting to play around with that.

I like that they kept the home base you visit in between missions thing going with the Somniel as well, and included cooking/sharing a meal with teammates from Three Houses there - also fishing, although they made that a touch more elaborate in how it works, which I'm not sure I'm fond of. Strangely, I kind of like the new working out mini-games too - at least, pushups and situps, I haven't done squats yet, since it's hard to pick a dex boost over strength or health - even though I couldn't tell you why. It is sad that talking to the characters around the Somniel feels a lot less engaging than doing the same in the Monastery in Three Houses though.

I am very disappointed to see that the "bond" conversations between characters and Emblems are literally just one line apiece at each rank (technically I haven't seen an A rank yet, but I'm not holding out hope). I know it'd be a lot to have unique conversations for every character with all twelve emblems, but if even Marth and Alear don't have more than that, they clearly went minimalist on all of them, so we don't even get select characters getting more to their "supports." Which is sad, because other than maybe Marth, it's not looking like the Emblems get much in the way of a presence as actual characters in the game's story, and them mostly being a gameplay thing and mcguffin for the story feels like a big missed opportunity. The Emblems are the game's big gimmick and draw compared to other games in the series, they should've been taking as much advantage of it as possible.

Okay, that's enough wall of text from me at this point. What's everyone else think?

[LaZodiac]

I'm really enjoying it. Not too far in (currently just got Hiya Papaya'd) but I more or less second everything you've said... minus a few things.

For one, the Emblem stuff. I don't think the ghosts of old characters should get that much development. I do kiiinda wish they got more, in the sense of "it'd be neat to see them be a bit more characterful" but they're ghost power ups, I don't need them to do this. Sigurd noting he also left a child behind when he died is all I need (also it's really funny that Lumera asked Sigurd of all people what to do with regards to long term thinking. Girl his answer's gonna be "uh... invade a country?".)

For two, I don't think the characters are that flat. They've all got the standard level of Fire Emblem nuance, with differing levels of how deep and wide they go. Nothing about them feels out of place or off for the series- maybe they're a BIT light, but I'm going to blame that on the old faithful flaw of "permadeath as an option means we can't make any of these characters too important". I also... don't think the talking with characters around the sleep-house is any different at all from Three Houses? It is lacking the missing item thing, I guess!

One thing I'll add to this: I'm not that far in but already I can tell this game is gonna go sicko mode when it comes to just how much you can break it over your knee. Tomes with melee only range, long bows that go 2-3, putting riders bane on your axe haver due to Sigurd- hell, the fact that Sigurd's Override can hit and kill as many people as are in a sequential straight line, there is a lot of wild **** going on here and I am excited to see where it goes.

[Rising Phoenix]

Hiya Papaya to you pumpkin seeds!

I think I am at chapter 13 and because I hate myself I am playing on lunatic on my first go. It's fun.

I'll agree with Zodiac on the emblems. They say plenty for one liners. If you know their backstories they make plenty of implied references to their games.

The characters are overall fine to good. Many appear one dimensional at first but that quickly gets dispelled when you delve into a couple of supports. The twins in particular start of as very one dimensional and cringe worthy but I find them ok now (not great). Notable highlights are Yunaka who in addition to being a powerhouse is all around fun with a severe edge. Celine and Louis are also good. In fact I would describe most of the characters as fun. This is not 3H levels of writing and its a good thing that many characters don't take themselves seriously. Its definitely better then fates and awakening.

As for the emblems. Boy is it entertaining. You can make whatever unit you want! Want a fast armor knight? Give Sigurd to Louis- so long as there are no mages nothing will be able to kill him or run away from him (you can even give him Celica so that he pops on top of people. Its funny but a gimmick- not viable). Want Ike 2.0? Give Ike to Diamant and make him tank 10+ units on enemy phase- not creative, but effective. Want a good berserker? Give Lyn to one of your axes and watch them stack speed taker that eventually they will become untouchable.

The story started of very weak at first, I now find it to be quite good.

Edit: Grammar, typos.

[LaZodiac]

Honestly aside from the Dead Mom Speedrun at the start I've quite liked the plot. Sometimes you want a super complicated game of 4D hyper chess like Three Houses, and sometimes you want a very basic but solid "the evil dragon woke up go kill him".

And then despite that vibe there is this underlying tension of "it seems entirely likely that the evil dragon what woke up is You, Actually" and I'm really liking it. There's this very thin line of "oh I'm evil and I just forgot didn't I?". Genuinely intrigued by this, especially all the evil cultist folk who oh boy they sure do have a lot of red and blue ornamentation on them just like us huh. It is a wild secret twist to this otherwise pretty normal Fremblem plot!

[Wayac]

So what's everyone's record for targets in a single Sigurd's Line o' Death? I've managed 4 so far.


And then despite that vibe there is this underlying tension of "it seems entirely likely that the evil dragon what woke up is You, Actually" and I'm really liking it. There's this very thin line of "oh I'm evil and I just forgot didn't I?".

Hmm, Lumera did mention she was pumping Divine Dragon power into Alear over the 1000 year slumber and there was that one early flashback/dream that showed Alear with just red hair (Lumera seemed to sound younger too but I could be wrong). So maybe they were evil, were put to sleep, then Lumera worked on "uncorrupting" them and got about halfway done if the hair color ratio is any indicator.

I'm not surprised I miss battalions, that was something I was prepping myself for going into it. However I was surprised that I missed combat arts. I didn't use them too much in Three Houses (the actual combat ones anyway), but getting to a unit who doesn't have an emblem ring and realizing their options are restricted solely to what's in their inventory is a bit jarring.

[Rising Phoenix]

Honestly aside from the Dead Mom Speedrun at the start I've quite liked the plot. Sometimes you want a super complicated game of 4D hyper chess like Three Houses, and sometimes you want a very basic but solid "the evil dragon woke up go kill him".

And then despite that vibe there is this underlying tension of "it seems entirely likely that the evil dragon what woke up is You, Actually" and I'm really liking it. There's this very thin line of "oh I'm evil and I just forgot didn't I?". Genuinely intrigued by this, especially all the evil cultist folk who oh boy they sure do have a lot of red and blue ornamentation on them just like us huh. It is a wild secret twist to this otherwise pretty normal Fremblem plot!

I am thinking that it might be more Lumera and Sombron have/had a dysfunctional relationship and you're the product.

You then went on a rampage to destroy the world because "It's just a faze MUM! I will grow out of it (in 1000 years)"

[LaZodiac]

I am thinking that it might be more Lumera and Sombron have/had a dysfunctional relationship and you're the product.

You then went on a rampage to destroy the world because "It's just a faze MUM! I will grow out of it (in 1000 years)"

I've been rotating a few theories in my head. The red and blue together implies Fell and Divine blood so we're definitely half satan, but also the people who worship Sombron all seem to wear blue-and-red iconography. We may be evil by birth, we may have become evil, we may have become good- hell, as far as I can tell it may just be that we're pulling a Disgaea 2 and we ARE Sombron, and the current Sombron is some loser who took our name for clout in our absence.

I am curious to see how it goes.

[Zevox]

For one, the Emblem stuff. I don't think the ghosts of old characters should get that much development. I do kiiinda wish they got more, in the sense of "it'd be neat to see them be a bit more characterful" but they're ghost power ups, I don't need them to do this. Sigurd noting he also left a child behind when he died is all I need (also it's really funny that Lumera asked Sigurd of all people what to do with regards to long term thinking. Girl his answer's gonna be "uh... invade a country?".)
I don't think they need development per se - I'm not expecting a whole new character arc for Marth and the rest in a game they're basically guest-starring in - but I would like to see them interact more with characters of this game, and even each other. Their presence is a selling point of the game, and I don't think most people who are interested in that like them just for stats.


For two, I don't think the characters are that flat. They've all got the standard level of Fire Emblem nuance, with differing levels of how deep and wide they go. Nothing about them feels out of place or off for the series- maybe they're a BIT light, but I'm going to blame that on the old faithful flaw of "permadeath as an option means we can't make any of these characters too important". I also... don't think the talking with characters around the sleep-house is any different at all from Three Houses? It is lacking the missing item thing, I guess!
That's the thing, standard Fire Emblem level of nuance isn't much. For instance, Chloé. I like that she has this love of fairy tales that inspires her, it's an endearing character trait; but a lot of the time it feels like its her only character trait. I think of the supports I've seen, there's maybe one or two where she doesn't mention it. Kind of feels like that's the case for a lot of characters - for Etie it's muscles/training, for Celine it's tea, for Louis it's people-watching. It's like everyone comes back to the same one thing in their conversations as much as Rafael did in Three Houses - except Rafael was the exception in that game, being the loveable oaf who took simple pleasure in a few things (training and food) and made the other characters' lives brighter by his generally uplifting presence because of it. Whereas here I struggle to find characters that don't feel like they're just that simple.

As for talking to characters around the base, it's a matter of what they have to say. In Three Houses you got very different remarks after every chapter, usually commenting on what happened in the last month, or what was going to happen in the coming month, giving you a good gauge of each character's feelings at that point in the story, and making the whole place feel more alive. With the Somniel it's often the same few basic lines being repeated regardless of what just happened in the story, aside from maybe one or two characters who were closely connected to what just happened. In Three Houses I made sure to go talk to every character in the Monastery every month, because it felt not only worth my time to do so, but like I'd be missing out if I didn't; in Engage, I'm not feeling that at all, after having done it thus far out of habit.


One thing I'll add to this: I'm not that far in but already I can tell this game is gonna go sicko mode when it comes to just how much you can break it over your knee. Tomes with melee only range, long bows that go 2-3, putting riders bane on your axe haver due to Sigurd- hell, the fact that Sigurd's Override can hit and kill as many people as are in a sequential straight line, there is a lot of wild **** going on here and I am excited to see where it goes.
:smallconfused: Longbows going 2-3 is entirely normal for the series though? And the melee-only tome (at least, the one early one I've seen) seems like it's supposed to be a negative - yes, it gets slightly more damage than Fire in exchange for that, but not enough to justify actually using it most of the time.

Emblem abilities though, yeah, that's another story entirely, as I already commented.


Honestly aside from the Dead Mom Speedrun at the start I've quite liked the plot. Sometimes you want a super complicated game of 4D hyper chess like Three Houses, and sometimes you want a very basic but solid "the evil dragon woke up go kill him".
I don't think it's a matter of complicated versus simple, personally. You could have a simple story but with nuanced, fleshed-out characters; or you could have a simple story that isn't just reusing the same basic plot concept that the series has already used several times over.


And then despite that vibe there is this underlying tension of "it seems entirely likely that the evil dragon what woke up is You, Actually" and I'm really liking it. There's this very thin line of "oh I'm evil and I just forgot didn't I?". Genuinely intrigued by this, especially all the evil cultist folk who oh boy they sure do have a lot of red and blue ornamentation on them just like us huh. It is a wild secret twist to this otherwise pretty normal Fremblem plot!
I almost wish you hadn't said that, because I hadn't thought of that, but it would explain some things. Though perhaps not everything,
since the royals from the north-eastern Kingdom are using Emblems that they've used Sombra's power to corrupt. Not sure how they did that if you're Sombra.


So what's everyone's record for targets in a single Sigurd's Line o' Death? I've managed 4 so far.
Zero, actually - I've yet to use that ability, because I don't think I've ever had more than two targets for it at a time, and always felt there was a better use of that character's action for one reason or another. Sigurd's still pretty good though, between the stupidly massive mobility boost, Momentum, and the free Horseslayer.

And Canter, though it's really strange to not have that be a normal, default thing for mounted units in this game. I'm actually blanking on whether that was a thing before Three Houses - feels like it was, but I could just be misremembering because I've probably played more of Three Houses than any other one game in the series. Either way though, I definitely got so used to it that it was a "wait, what?" moment for me when I first moved Alfred and he didn't get to do that.


I'm not surprised I miss battalions, that was something I was prepping myself for going into it. However I was surprised that I missed combat arts. I didn't use them too much in Three Houses (the actual combat ones anyway), but getting to a unit who doesn't have an emblem ring and realizing their options are restricted solely to what's in their inventory is a bit jarring.
Yeah, I would definitely like to have those back myself, both very good additions to the series.

[LaZodiac]

I don't think they need development per se - I'm not expecting a whole new character arc for Marth and the rest in a game they're basically guest-starring in - but I would like to see them interact more with characters of this game, and even each other. Their presence is a selling point of the game, and I don't think most people who are interested in that like them just for stats.

That's the thing, standard Fire Emblem level of nuance isn't much. For instance, Chloé. I like that she has this love of fairy tales that inspires her, it's an endearing character trait; but a lot of the time it feels like its her only character trait. I think of the supports I've seen, there's maybe one or two where she doesn't mention it. Kind of feels like that's the case for a lot of characters - for Etie it's muscles/training, for Celine it's tea, for Louis it's people-watching. It's like everyone comes back to the same one thing in their conversations as much as Rafael did in Three Houses - except Rafael was the exception in that game, being the loveable oaf who took simple pleasure in a few things (training and food) and made the other characters' lives brighter by his generally uplifting presence because of it. Whereas here I struggle to find characters that don't feel like they're just that simple.

As for talking to characters around the base, it's a matter of what they have to say. In Three Houses you got very different remarks after every chapter, usually commenting on what happened in the last month, or what was going to happen in the coming month, giving you a good gauge of each character's feelings at that point in the story, and making the whole place feel more alive. With the Somniel it's often the same few basic lines being repeated regardless of what just happened in the story, aside from maybe one or two characters who were closely connected to what just happened. In Three Houses I made sure to go talk to every character in the Monastery every month, because it felt not only worth my time to do so, but like I'd be missing out if I didn't; in Engage, I'm not feeling that at all, after having done it thus far out of habit.

:smallconfused: Longbows going 2-3 is entirely normal for the series though? And the melee-only tome (at least, the one early one I've seen) seems like it's supposed to be a negative - yes, it gets slightly more damage than Fire in exchange for that, but not enough to justify actually using it most of the time.

I almost wish you hadn't said that, because I hadn't thought of that, but it would explain some things. Though perhaps not everything,
since the royals from the north-eastern Kingdom are using Emblems that they've used Sombra's power to corrupt. Not sure how they did that if you're Sombra.

Zero, actually - I've yet to use that ability, because I don't think I've ever had more than two targets for it at a time, and always felt there was a better use of that character's action for one reason or another. Sigurd's still pretty good though, between the stupidly massive mobility boost, Momentum, and the free Horseslayer.

And Canter, though it's really strange to not have that be a normal, default thing for mounted units in this game. I'm actually blanking on whether that was a thing before Three Houses - feels like it was, but I could just be misremembering because I've probably played more of Three Houses than any other one game in the series. Either way though, I definitely got so used to it that it was a "wait, what?" moment for me when I first moved Alfred and he didn't get to do that.

Yeah, I would definitely like to have those back myself, both very good additions to the series.

All fair points. I've gotten Chloe's C rank with Louis and while it dips into her love of fairy tales a bit, it's more focused on how they both have a shared love of watching other people be in love, and focuses more on the serene (which, on that note, boy Celine it sure is neat how your retainers abilities synergize with all three of you together huh. Maybe that means something) a friend joked about them being a throuple and honestly I can dig it.

I've talked to them after every chapter and there HAVE been new dialogue every time? Or maybe I'm just not noticing when it is similar!

Okay I did forget Longbow do that normally, but them doing their thing on top of a bunch of other stuff having weird ranges? I can see it doing some wild stuff like Echoes letting you get to like range 5 or so. Also Surge also has INFINITE accuracy. No one is dodging this if you get up and plant a magic boot in their face, which that PLUS having enhanced power to Fire seems like a good trade.

My apologies!

Mine is also four. I prioritized killing that first thief in the map where you get Sigurd and he lined up real nice with three other guys and I just, assassinated him and wounded the others in a precision strike ballista bolt. It's incredibly satisfying and you get EXP for as if you fought all four which is wild.

Yeah some games have Canto/Canter as a native in-built feature of Horse, Peg, and Wyv, but not all of'em! Luckily the way skill points work you can... fairly easy just make all your mounties have it?

The lack of battalions is kinda sad, as well as combat arts, but I kinda get it to some degree. Wanna put emphasis on the stands, combat arts would take a bit away from having unique super moves if everyone could do a slightly less unique super move. Of course I say this, and all clerics can just also negate all damage in a cross around them for 20% of their max life so who knows, maybe they could have done more! Which is wild by the way, no other class seems to have... anything like this going on?

[Wayac]

And Canter, though it's really strange to not have that be a normal, default thing for mounted units in this game. I'm actually blanking on whether that was a thing before Three Houses - feels like it was, but I could just be misremembering because I've probably played more of Three Houses than any other one game in the series. Either way though, I definitely got so used to it that it was a "wait, what?" moment for me when I first moved Alfred and he didn't get to do that.

I've only played Three Houses and the GBA games but I think Canto was just a default feature for mounted units in those. It feels like Canter is more like Canto from Heroes, which I guess makes sense since there are a lot of other similarities between Engage and FEH.


The lack of battalions is kinda sad, as well as combat arts, but I kinda get it to some degree. Wanna put emphasis on the stands, combat arts would take a bit away from having unique super moves if everyone could do a slightly less unique super move. Of course I say this, and all clerics can just also negate all damage in a cross around them for 20% of their max life so who knows, maybe they could have done more! Which is wild by the way, no other class seems to have... anything like this going on?

I think chain guard is part of the Qi Adept ... specification (not sure of the word the game uses). Learned this the hard way when I changed one into a class that could still heal but couldn't chain guard anymore. There are a lot of other specifications but from what I've seen the only other one with a new mechanic is Backup that can do chain attacks when another unit attacks a target within their range.

[Zevox]

I've talked to them after every chapter and there HAVE been new dialogue every time? Or maybe I'm just not noticing when it is similar!
As just one example, Framme's been giving me the same line about how being able to talk to me every day is "the best!" for like five chapters or so now.

There's a little variation to it, in that characters will have a different line if they're doing an activity, like working out, swimming, or fishing, but they only seem to have the one line per activity. Again, unless they're closely connected to whatever just happened in the story, in which case they might get something referencing that.


Okay I did forget Longbow do that normally, but them doing their thing on top of a bunch of other stuff having weird ranges? I can see it doing some wild stuff like Echoes letting you get to like range 5 or so. Also Surge also has INFINITE accuracy. No one is dodging this if you get up and plant a magic boot in their face, which that PLUS having enhanced power to Fire seems like a good trade.
I mean, Longbows could already become range 2-4 or 2-5 in Three Houses via the archer line's range +1/+2 (for Bow Knight) innate skills, so that wouldn't even be particularly new at this point.

And while that's true about the Surge tomes, the only things that are so dodgy you might want that are swordmasters, thieves, and pegasus knights - none of which are really things mages are generally happy to go toe-to-toe with when they can counter attack them, unless they're finishing them off after something else weakened them. Or just have such massive damage that they can one-shot them, I guess, but that's probably not happening often, especially with the pegasus knights.


My apologies!
No big. You were just speculating, so even if you'd thrown it in a spoiler block, I'd probably have read it anyway. I just think you're likely onto something and wonder if it might make things have more of an impact on me if I actually never caught it myself.


Yeah some games have Canto/Canter as a native in-built feature of Horse, Peg, and Wyv, but not all of'em! Luckily the way skill points work you can... fairly easy just make all your mounties have it?
Can you? SP seems to build pretty slowly. Heck, I don't think I was getting any at all until I put bond rings on everybody who wasn't using an Emblem Ring. So far I've only been able to afford to pick up some cheap (100-500 SP) skills - even characters who have been saving for a 1k skill like Canter are still a bit short.


I think chain guard is part of the Qi Adept ... specification (not sure of the word the game uses). Learned this the hard way when I changed one into a class that could still heal but couldn't chain guard anymore. There are a lot of other specifications but from what I've seen the only other one with a new mechanic is Backup that can do chain attacks when another unit attacks a target within their range.
The new class typing thing, yeah. So far, I believe I've seen:
- Dragon: gets bonuses to various effects when using Emblems (probably Alear only).
- Armored: does not get broken when attacked with the weapon their weapon loses to in the triangle. (Armored Knights, obviously.)
- Backup: adds a chain attack when in range of an enemy that an ally is attacking. (Unmounted melee classes that aren't Armored Knights.)
- Cavalry: extra movement. (Mounted non-fliers.)
- Covert: gain double the avoid bonus from terrain. (Archers and Thieves.)
- Flying: extra movement, ignores difficult terrain, can enter tiles other types can't, takes huge damage from bows. (Fliers, obviously.)
- Mystical: ignores dodge bonuses from terrain when attacking. (Mages, obviously.)
- Qi Adept: gets Chain Guard. (Monk/healers.)

Kind of feels like cavalry get the short end of the stick, since they're now down to just +1 movement compared to other classes (IIRC they used to be +2 compared to most, +1 compared to faster classes like Thief/Assassin), and don't get Canto/Canter naturally anymore.

[LaZodiac]

Can you? SP seems to build pretty slowly. Heck, I don't think I was getting any at all until I put bond rings on everybody who wasn't using an Emblem Ring. So far I've only been able to afford to pick up some cheap (100-500 SP) skills - even characters who have been saving for a 1k skill like Canter are still a bit short.


The new class typing thing, yeah. So far, I believe I've seen:
- Dragon: gets bonuses to various effects when using Emblems (probably Alear only).
- Armored: does not get broken when attacked with the weapon their weapon loses to in the triangle. (Armored Knights, obviously.)
- Backup: adds a chain attack when in range of an enemy that an ally is attacking. (Unmounted melee classes that aren't Armored Knights.)
- Cavalry: extra movement. (Mounted non-fliers.)
- Covert: gain double the avoid bonus from terrain. (Archers and Thieves.)
- Flying: extra movement, ignores difficult terrain, can enter tiles other types can't, takes huge damage from bows. (Fliers, obviously.)
- Mystical: ignores dodge bonuses from terrain when attacking. (Mages, obviously.)
- Qi Adept: gets Chain Guard. (Monk/healers.)

Kind of feels like cavalry get the short end of the stick, since they're now down to just +1 movement compared to other classes (IIRC they used to be +2 compared to most, +1 compared to faster classes like Thief/Assassin), and don't get Canto/Canter naturally anymore.

Correct! They actually mention that you gain no SP unless you've got some sort of ring on. Bond rings are slower than proper Emblems, though. A good way of getting SP is using Great Sacrifice while everyone is beat up- each person healed gives a bunch of SP... and usually gets you 100 exp straight up.

I completely forgot about those passives, except for Backup and Flying, obviously.

[Rising Phoenix]

I think I love and hate the game for making armors and axe users be good. Armor knights in particular are flipping amazing and a genuine threat. Mages are the only real way to deal with them, even with effective weapons you sometimes feel like you're only dealing chip damage. Of course this is on maddening not sure if that is the case on lower difficulties.

As for the Sigurd line I think 4 is the highest I've managed as well- in the Tiki paralogue. Speaking of Tiki holy sparks! Whoever thought that having an enemy that ignores res and def and also has 1-3 range needs to go think about his life decisions. My party was level 6-8 while the enemies where level 11. The ice dragons would do 20 damage per hit and root you...My highest HP unit I think had 37 health at the time... Not fun.

[Wayac]

Whoever thought that having an enemy that ignores res and def and also has 1-3 range needs to go think about his life decisions. My party was level 6-8 while the enemies where level 11. The ice dragons would do 20 damage per hit and root you...My highest HP unit I think had 37 health at the time... Not fun.

My guess is that you're "supposed" to put your hardest hitting (and preferably fast enough to double) unit in range and then chain guard them. I say guess because the one battle I've had against that enemy type was the same battle where I discovered my healer no longer had access to chain guard.

Also how is the DLC? I was going to pick it up for the Three Houses lords but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[LaZodiac]

My guess is that you're "supposed" to put your hardest hitting (and preferably fast enough to double) unit in range and then chain guard them. I say guess because the one battle I've had against that enemy type was the same battle where I discovered my healer no longer had access to chain guard.

Also how is the DLC? I was going to pick it up for the Three Houses lords but haven't gotten around to it yet.

The DLC is pretty good. If it's a taste of what the future maps are going to be like... there is going to be some difficult times ahead. Only one Divine Paralogue is available, and it's a tricky but profitable little challenge. Both Tiki and the Rivals emblems are great.

[Fiery Diamond]

Especially Tiki, and not for her skills. Engage turning you into a dragon and boosting your stats along with giving you a superb weapon (her claws) can turn a weaker unit into a powerhouse for three turns, which is great for leveling up units that aren't up to par yet.

I'm enjoying the game a lot, but there are a few things that irk me.

1) Skirmishes scale based on your level (not sure if it's based on average level or highest level or some combination - I think it's a combination) and there's a massive difficulty spike once all the enemies are advanced classes. Due to the way all the enemies rush you and there aren't a lot of maps with good choke points, it's really hard to level up weaker units once you reach that point (which I did at chapter twelve because I didn't realize they scaled based on your level rather than story progress).

1B) Silver and Gold skirmishes usually have only one or two special units, making grinding for gold pretty hard to do, and I tried to level ALL my units AND outfit them with upgraded gear, so I ran out of gold.

2) The Tower of Trials. I don't do online gaming, so it's just the regular one that's of interest to me. I was expecting (and hoping) for it to be like the tower in Sacred Stones. Instead, the maps are insanely difficult, require you to make them scaled to your party level just to get a halfway decent reward, and don't even let you keep experience from the fights themselves. So much for replacing the too-difficult skirmishes for grinding gold and experience!

3) SPOILER

After you lose your emblems to the fell dragon, you lose out on all the boosts that would have made the aforementioned stuff easier, AND you can't inherit skills from Emblems you formerly had even if you have the right bond level.

4) I've read that there's no NG+, which means all that hard work accumulating SP (and if you bothered with trying for specific upgraded bond rings) can't be used on future playthroughs. I really hope they change that in an update somewhere down the line.

I'm currently on chapter 13, probably going to do several chapters today.

[Rising Phoenix]

My guess is that you're "supposed" to put your hardest hitting (and preferably fast enough to double) unit in range and then chain guard them. I say guess because the one battle I've had against that enemy type was the same battle where I discovered my healer no longer had access to chain guard.

Also how is the DLC? I was going to pick it up for the Three Houses lords but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Doubling?! On Maddening?! You sweet sweet summer child.

As for chain guarding...yeah it works... Problem is the map constantly spams reinforcements every three turns which include (on top of mages and thieves) 2-3 ice dragons every wave in additions to the ones on the map...Yeah its a special kind of hell.

Tiki and 3H emblems are worth it though. In addition to making anyone near unkillable, Tiki also gives the holder an aptitude boost to their stat goods which is very nice. 3H emblem comes with an exp boost and a pseudo galeforce which are nice. Neither are game breaking on maddening unfortunately.

Edit: Also fun fact later chapters have soft enrage turn counts: AKA the longer you wait the more re-reinforcements spawn in. You might be able to deal with these on normal, but on higher difficulties you must blitzkrieg to the boss asap.

Edit 2: There is no new game plus atm. Though looking at how long it takes to grind inheritable skills I wouldn't be surprised at all if they add (and hopefully add it quite soon).

[Zevox]

Correct! They actually mention that you gain no SP unless you've got some sort of ring on. Bond rings are slower than proper Emblems, though. A good way of getting SP is using Great Sacrifice while everyone is beat up- each person healed gives a bunch of SP... and usually gets you 100 exp straight up.
Yeah, I randomly decided to use that move before finishing off a chapter's boss last night, just to see what it looked like, and was rather surprised to see Celine suddenly jump up a whole level doing it. Pretty crazy.


I think I love and hate the game for making armors and axe users be good. Armor knights in particular are flipping amazing and a genuine threat. Mages are the only real way to deal with them, even with effective weapons you sometimes feel like you're only dealing chip damage. Of course this is on maddening not sure if that is the case on lower difficulties.
Aside from effective weapons, that just sounds like what Armor Knights are usually like to me? Try to throw normal weapon-users at them and you'll have a rough time of getting their health down, so you use the effective weapons or mages. On hard at least I'm not having any trouble cutting through them with armorslayers and hammers.


Also how is the DLC? I was going to pick it up for the Three Houses lords but haven't gotten around to it yet.

The DLC is pretty good. If it's a taste of what the future maps are going to be like... there is going to be some difficult times ahead. Only one Divine Paralogue is available, and it's a tricky but profitable little challenge. Both Tiki and the Rivals emblems are great.
I'm not touching the DLC myself. If I could just buy the Edelgard/Dimitri/Claude Emblem for a reasonable price I would, maybe even Tiki, but a $30 pass for a bunch of stuff I'm otherwise not interested in, and future additions to the game that'll be coming after I've already finished playing it is a hard no. They eventually got me to do that with Three Houses, but that was primarily for Cindered Shadows, combined with the fact that Three Houses specifically impressed me so much.

On another note, I'm up through chapter 11 now, and oooh boy!
Finally got Lyn's Emblem! I've been waiting for ones from games I've played (besides Marth, since Shadow Dragon was eh, and Micaiah, who I like but her Emblem is only okay), but especially Lyn's. And with one exception, I'm super happy with it. The illusory doubles ability is amazing - extra chain attacks or attack-soaking distractions? And it's a send-up to her old critical hit animations, which I love. And you seem to be able to do it repeatedly as long as you're engaged, it's not once per engage like most such abilities. Plus of course it's pumping your speed, because what else would it be doing stat-wise?

My one gripe is that they made her an archer. I mean, I get it, they want the Emblems to provide a variety of styles, she technically gets bow proficiency when she promotes, and if they made every emblem use their main weapon then the only one who wouldn't be a swordsman is Micaiah. But dang it, when I think of Lyn, I think the Mani Katti and Sol Katti, not archery. At least she still gets the former, though it takes until bond level 10 to get to use it instead of her killer bow.

Oh, and story-wise, you're definitely not Sombron, that's clear now. Given Veyle turned out to be his daughter and was looking for someone though, I have an idea who you might actually be. Almost a shame, honestly, I feel like that might've been a better twist.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, I randomly decided to use that move before finishing off a chapter's boss last night, just to see what it looked like, and was rather surprised to see Celine suddenly jump up a whole level doing it. Pretty crazy.


Aside from effective weapons, that just sounds like what Armor Knights are usually like to me? Try to throw normal weapon-users at them and you'll have a rough time of getting their health down, so you use the effective weapons or mages. On hard at least I'm not having any trouble cutting through them with armorslayers and hammers.



I'm not touching the DLC myself. If I could just buy the Edelgard/Dimitri/Claude Emblem for a reasonable price I would, maybe even Tiki, but a $30 pass for a bunch of stuff I'm otherwise not interested in, and future additions to the game that'll be coming after I've already finished playing it is a hard no. They eventually got me to do that with Three Houses, but that was primarily for Cindered Shadows, combined with the fact that Three Houses specifically impressed me so much.

On another note, I'm up through chapter 11 now, and oooh boy!
Finally got Lyn's Emblem! I've been waiting for ones from games I've played (besides Marth, since Shadow Dragon was eh, and Micaiah, who I like but her Emblem is only okay), but especially Lyn's. And with one exception, I'm super happy with it. The illusory doubles ability is amazing - extra chain attacks or attack-soaking distractions? And it's a send-up to her old critical hit animations, which I love. And you seem to be able to do it repeatedly as long as you're engaged, it's not once per engage like most such abilities. Plus of course it's pumping your speed, because what else would it be doing stat-wise?

My one gripe is that they made her an archer. I mean, I get it, they want the Emblems to provide a variety of styles, she technically gets bow proficiency when she promotes, and if they made every emblem use their main weapon then the only one who wouldn't be a swordsman is Micaiah. But dang it, when I think of Lyn, I think the Mani Katti and Sol Katti, not archery. At least she still gets the former, though it takes until bond level 10 to get to use it instead of her killer bow.

Oh, and story-wise, you're definitely not Sombron, that's clear now. Given Veyle turned out to be his daughter and was looking for someone though, I have an idea who you might actually be. Almost a shame, honestly, I feel like that might've been a better twist.

The thing with Armour Knights is that they often have Bad movement, and focus on defense over any stat. The older Kaga-era emblems treated armour knights pretty poorly... and modern fremblems likewise did not really give them much. Gatrie is like, the first truly Solid knight, and I'm pretty sure he's still not that used overall, if I recall.

The explicit "they do not care about breaking" bonus, plus the seemingly enhanced "no" to non effective weapons they've gotten, seems like a buff. That, and having Emblems allows one to fix some of their issues: I stapled Sigurd to Louis and he just about tore through everything in his path.

[Rising Phoenix]

The thing with Armour Knights is that they often have Bad movement, and focus on defense over any stat. The older Kaga-era emblems treated armour knights pretty poorly... and modern fremblems likewise did not really give them much. Gatrie is like, the first truly Solid knight, and I'm pretty sure he's still not that used overall, if I recall.

The explicit "they do not care about breaking" bonus, plus the seemingly enhanced "no" to non effective weapons they've gotten, seems like a buff. That, and having Emblems allows one to fix some of their issues: I stapled Sigurd to Louis and he just about tore through everything in his path.
That’s my experience with Louis. He is pretty great.

Also I finally finished Ike’s paralogue by the skin of my teeth after five tries…that was something… sheesh…

[Zevox]

The thing with Armour Knights is that they often have Bad movement, and focus on defense over any stat. The older Kaga-era emblems treated armour knights pretty poorly... and modern fremblems likewise did not really give them much. Gatrie is like, the first truly Solid knight, and I'm pretty sure he's still not that used overall, if I recall.

The explicit "they do not care about breaking" bonus, plus the seemingly enhanced "no" to non effective weapons they've gotten, seems like a buff. That, and having Emblems allows one to fix some of their issues: I stapled Sigurd to Louis and he just about tore through everything in his path.
I thought we were discussing them as enemies? That seemed to be the context for the remark I was responding to.

But as for as our characters, I've never found their lack of mobility much of an issue. It's not like most characters move their maximum possible distance every turn, nor like you're often chasing enemies that are moving away from you. And they're always a solid wall against most non-mage enemies. I've always got one in my army.

Speaking of characters, who's everybody using? And who are you finding lacking? I'm getting curious, because I'm getting to the point (chapter 15 now) where I've got so many I really need to start making some choices, and sadly some I've wanted to use are falling off.
I'm at the point where I'm pretty much dumping Alfred and Celine. Alfred just been mediocre at everything for a long time, and he's not appearing to get better. Celine has the problem of being a mage who isn't gaining magic, which is an issue I already had with Clanne that caused me to ditch him early. There's enough good mages to go around (Citrine, Ivy, and I turned Jean into one as well) that I can't justify continuing to use her when her magic score is almost double-digits behind theirs. Granted, Citrine could use some speed, but she's less hopeless there than Celine is with magic, I feel.

Boucheron is also edging towards getting dumped due to his stats tending towards mediocrity... except that I don't really have a replacement axe user if I do that. I'm using Jade a little bit, but an armored knight with an axe isn't quite the same as a traditional axe user. I actually thought about class-changing Lapis into an axe fighter as a replacement, since that should shore up her slight strength issues, but then I noticed that her build stat is totally incapable of supporting the weight of axes even with her high speed. There is Bunet as well, but I'm not inclined to start using pre-promotes until I'm starting to promote my units, and he's another armored unit like Jade (albeit a mounted one). I don't know, maybe once I start promoting units I'll just have some that get axes as a secondary weapon, and that'll be good enough.

I'm also trying to salvage Etie, whose lack of speed has forced me to change to Alcryst as my archer of choice, by making her a sword fighter. I'll need to do some grinding for that though sadly, as I only just got the money to afford another second seal - that was a long string of missions that gave me no gold at all - and I left her on the sidelines for like five chapters now after deciding I wanted to do that, so she's behind.

Meanwhile, MVPs have been Alear (naturally), Chloé, and Diamant, with an honorable mention to Louis, Jean (changed to a Mage), and surprisingly Framme. I don't like Framme as a character at all, she's super annoying; but she is getting good stats for me, so I actually gave her Celica for a while so she could use magic when engaged, and that was working out very well. Once she promotes and can use magic naturally, she'll likely become one of my best or my outright best mage. In the meantime though, Alear of course is doing main character/swordmastery things very well, especially since I gave her Lyn's ring; Chloé is just a solid Pegasus Knight, occasionally lacking in strength as usual for the class, but never too badly; and Diamant is just all-around strong. Louis has been a dependable wall and better non-Pegasus lance user than Alfred (and this despite me never giving him Sigurd's ring; I had that on Boucheron, then Etie), and Jean has been my best Mage since I class changed him, but feels like he's starting to hit some bad luck with speed himself. Hopefully that'll just work itself out though, he is an Aptitude character after all. Or Expertise is what they're calling it now, I guess.

Timerra I've only had for a couple of missions, but looks like she could be another really good one, and that despite the fact that I handed Ike off to Diamant since it feels like she shouldn't have an Emblem ring that actively makes her worse at dodging attacks. Thinking once I get the other rings back I'll give her one of those (besides Micaiah). Or maybe Corrin will end up looking like a good one for her, I should be getting him (her? I can't tell for sure from the card if it's male or female Corrin) soon from the sounds of things.
The mid-game here is actually kind of frustrating in a way related to all of that: maybe it's just because I'm on hard, but it seems to presume I've been grinding a fair bit, and is having missions levels raise faster than my own are. I'm now averaging most of my characters being 2 levels behind story missions recommended, and 3-4 behind the skirmishes - and it's now deciding to starting throwing promoted enemies in, too, which annoyingly I often don't find visually distinct enough to notice as promoted at a glance, so they can be a nasty surprise. I've actually even had all of my new recruits showing up above the rest of my squad's level for a little while, the recent ones are just coming in even higher than the ones from earlier - my most recent acquisition started at level 19, while most of my army is at 16-17, and my highest others (aside from pre-promotes) are 18. And the only one of those 18s who wasn't recruited in just the last couple of missions and basically started that high is Alear.

Basically, feels like the game is trying to force me to grind, and I do not appreciate that. It's not like I've not been doing any skirmishes either, just not more of them than I have story missions. I try to watch for Gold Corrupted ones, since I have money issues, though I've done a couple of others as well, plus the first paralogue.

[Wayac]

I try to watch for Gold Corrupted ones, since I have money issues, though I've done a couple of others as well, plus the first paralogue.

I did one Gold Corrupted skrimish, but I think I only got 1000g out of it (off an enemy drop). Whereas if I do a Training skirmish it rewards 3000g upon completion. Is that what everyone else is seeing?

Finally got Byleth and dumped a lot of the bond shards I'd been hoarding into Three Houses rings. Managed to get the three house leaders to A and noticed something interesting for their S rank in the upgrade menu: apparently in addition to extra stats they also get a passive skill. I've gotten random S rank rings for other characters but none of them had an additional skill so I'm guessing it's only for Lord characters for their respective title?

[Rising Phoenix]

So I've hit my first big major disappointment with the game and that's

the paralogues. They are utterly soulless and the premise between each other is exactly the same- fight fabrications. Apart from a bit of a chat at the start and end there's nothing else. No character development nada.

At least give us some banter between retainers.

They are all quite hard particularly Ike's which has an enrage turn count. Micaiah's one which I am on atm appears to as well and I am not entirely sure how to take the fight to her atm given that you are so grossly outnumbered at every point of the fight.

As to who I am using.

Diamant with Ike, Yunaka with Corrin along with Alear with Tiki are nigh unkillable. They can easily 1 vs 10 at the moment. Diamant and Alear due to being ridonkulously tanky with their set ups and Yunaka because Corrin lets her set up fog in a 3 by 3 square around her giving cover units 60 avoid and everyone else 30. This is extremely broken and I have used it to cheese some harder fights- stick everyone in a corner with two choke points and wait for the enemies to come to you.

Berserker!Boucheront with Lyn is also good along with Louis with Sigurd but they have durability and severe mage aversion problems respectively at this point of the game.\

Framme and Lanne are ok as mages. Etie may have no speed but she one shots any flyer at this point. Fogato is fantastic as magic bow user (he's basically another mobile mage). Seadal is a dance and does what dancer's do.

Bringing up the rear is Alfred. I have tried so hard, but he gets doubled by everything including armors! ATM he has been delegated to carrying Byleth around for Godde's Dance and instruct spam. Jean I've made into a martial monk, shielding other's is a cute tactic. But I think I would like the raw fire power of another mage at this stage.

The story is entertaining if predictable at this point as well.

[Zevox]

Apparently, dataminers have figured out who the other DLC Emblems will be, if anyone wants to know:
Hector (Blazing Sword)
Veronica (Heroes)
Soren (Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn)
Camilla (Fates)
Chrom [possibly paired with Robin, details of that unclear] (Awakening)

Soren's a fun surprise in there. Otherwise, I suppose they're fairly predictable picks, aside from the Heroes character I've never heard of since I wouldn't touch that game with a thirty nine and a half foot pole. Still not selling me a $30 dlc pack personally, though, that price tag is just way too high.


I did one Gold Corrupted skrimish, but I think I only got 1000g out of it (off an enemy drop). Whereas if I do a Training skirmish it rewards 3000g upon completion. Is that what everyone else is seeing?
You know, I did not remember getting gold from a Training Skirmish, but I just did one to check, and you're absolutely right. Wish I'd know that a while ago, I could've second sealed Etie way back when I decided I wanted to, instead of grinding her now...

I have had Gold Corrupted skirmishes include two enemies with gold drops of up to 1500 gold on them, but that only brings it up to par with Training skirmishes sometimes, if that 3k is what they always give you. That's just stupid, why does the skirmish type that tells you "do this one for gold" give less than another random type of skirmish? Hopefully they'll notice how dumb that is and change it in a patch sometime.


Finally got Byleth and dumped a lot of the bond shards I'd been hoarding into Three Houses rings. Managed to get the three house leaders to A and noticed something interesting for their S rank in the upgrade menu: apparently in addition to extra stats they also get a passive skill. I've gotten random S rank rings for other characters but none of them had an additional skill so I'm guessing it's only for Lord characters for their respective title?
Ah, I see I'm not the only one who's focusing on bond rings from particular Emblems that I favor, then. Most of my early-game ones were from Micaiah, and now that I've got them I'm mostly focused on Lyn and Byleth's.

And I don't think it's Lords per se that get a special skill on their top-rank bond ring - the one I know I've seen is Elinicia, for instance. Though hers is questionable, it's a merciful effect that causes you to leave an enemy with 1 hp when you would otherwise kill them. Which I can only see you wanting when you're trying to baby-train a unit that's fallen way behind in levels, so it actually makes her ring worse for general use to take it to that top rank.


As to who I am using.

Diamant with Ike, Yunaka with Corrin along with Alear with Tiki are nigh unkillable. They can easily 1 vs 10 at the moment. Diamant and Alear due to being ridonkulously tanky with their set ups and Yunaka because Corrin lets her set up fog in a 3 by 3 square around her giving cover units 60 avoid and everyone else 30. This is extremely broken and I have used it to cheese some harder fights- stick everyone in a corner with two choke points and wait for the enemies to come to you.

Berserker!Boucheront with Lyn is also good along with Louis with Sigurd but they have durability and severe mage aversion problems respectively at this point of the game.\

Framme and Lanne are ok as mages. Etie may have no speed but she one shots any flyer at this point. Fogato is fantastic as magic bow user (he's basically another mobile mage). Seadal is a dance and does what dancer's do.

Bringing up the rear is Alfred. I have tried so hard, but he gets doubled by everything including armors! ATM he has been delegated to carrying Byleth around for Godde's Dance and instruct spam. Jean I've made into a martial monk, shielding other's is a cute tactic. But I think I would like the raw fire power of another mage at this stage.
I haven't gotten Corrin yet, but cool there. I'm still using Yunaka for now, but she's having serious strength issues. As in, she's gained 1 point of strength since I recruited her, and is now level 18. I slapped Micaiah's emblem on her iron dagger to make her an excellent doge-tank, but even with a silver dagger that she can consistently double with, damage is a struggle for her.

I kind of feel like almost anyone whose strength/magic didn't suck would be insane with Lyn's Emblem. Her and Ike are perhaps the two most powerful Emblems I've seen so far (which is all of them besides Corrin, Eirika, and the DLC ones). Though at this point I don't think I'm ever taking Lyn's Emblem off Alear, it feels too perfect to me. And I'm probably sticking with the Ike/Diamant duo as well myself, the synergy there is obvious and quite strong.

With Byleth, I find it kind of funny that he's one of only a handful of playable characters in his game who cannot ever become a dancer, but in this game he gets to be a super-dancer. I get what they're going for, but still amusing. Not sure who I'm going to have him land on long term, I'm using him to help train Etie to get her caught back up for the moment.

[Rising Phoenix]

Cute little exploit about bond rings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Te5MmTrVE

Also I did not realize how good some of these are...

[LaZodiac]

Cute little exploit about bond rings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Te5MmTrVE

Also I did not realize how good some of these are...

I love how, in the most simplest ways possible... this is just regular Fire Emblem RNG seed manipulation, the way Fire Emblem RNG seed manipulation has always worked since like forever? It always rolls every roll right away, as people who've emulated and used save states have no doubt experienced.

[Rising Phoenix]

Also Yunaka may be the best unit in the game...

I was struggling so hard in Micaiah's paralogue. Had to restart five times...Then I thought screw it I will just dodge tank my way through it...and I cleared it in three turns. Didn't get any gold rewards, but its better then not being able to clear it at all...

Yeah Yunaka + Corrin is that good its ridiculous.

On a different note whoever designed the Micaiah and Ike paralogues must seriously love these games...These chapters are haaaaaaard.

Edit: Some Ike bond convos spoilers obviously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voBIVhxwgg4

[Rodin]

I love how, in the most simplest ways possible... this is just regular Fire Emblem RNG seed manipulation, the way Fire Emblem RNG seed manipulation has always worked since like forever? It always rolls every roll right away, as people who've emulated and used save states have no doubt experienced.

Figuring out how to get around Fire Emblem RNG is fun.

Example scenario - you have a 85% chance to hit an enemy. You miss that attack. If you roll back time and and try again, you miss again. Simple enough. But what if you try and hit with a different unit with a similar hit chance (say 90% this time)?

It'll miss again. Because the roll isn't stored on your unit, it's stored on your next dice roll. So you have to "break" the bad roll with a really high percentage hit, or deliberately waste an attack with a weak unit.

I spent about 5 dragon pulses earlier today trying to burn through a pair of Wolf Riders which lucked into incredible dodge RNG (90% chance plus required on three total hits, and I needed every hit to take them down).

-------

More generally, does anyone else feel like the game is harder than other recent Fire Emblems? I'm in Chapter 12 and one of the bosses has a Brave weapon already. Enemy bosses come with multiple health bars and bodyguards, and they do not sit around waiting for you to mass your troops and attack. Enemies are tankier, requiring much more coordination than the rocket tag that was Three Houses.

I never used to worry about the Smithy in the previous games - now it feels mandatory to keep up with enemy health numbers. I used to "equip and forget" such that the fancy Armorslayer would go on a character and be owned by them until it ran out of durability. Now I'm juggling equipment at the start of every battle to ensure the very best equipment is getting used. New recruits find their fancy swords confiscated.

It feels like a halfway step between Hard and Maddening from Three Houses. On Hard you could send units out in pairs or even solo. Maddening means three or four units teaming up to take down one enemy. Engage isn't quite that bad, but it still leaves me feeling I should have formed an A team and abandoned the rest of my useless units. And then abandoned some of my A team as higher level new recruits show up.

[Fiery Diamond]

I am terrible at videogames despite how much I like them, so I pretty much never play on harder difficulties. I've only beat two FE games on the hardest difficulty: FE7 and Path of Radiance, both of which were very difficult for me. Anyway, the point is that I've been playing the game on Normal_Casual (best decision they made, IMO, was adding Casual Mode to the series, as I'm the type to refuse to keep playing if I permalose a character and have to restart the chapter; Casual allows me to keep trucking). And I've still had a couple chapters where a character retreated, even on Normal, and for the skirmishes losing characters has been commonplace, especially when trying to level up characters with poor level-ups that are levels behind my leads. It really seems like the game is designed around you playing smart with the Emblems... which I'm extremely bad about, and the time frame right after the battle in the cathedral puts you at a disadvantage in the skirmishes in that regard.

I ended up leveling everyone up to level 5 advanced class before focusing on a core team. You all have had different luck than me when it comes to your level ups: I'm still deciding whether to keep Chloe or Ivy (I'm in the home stretch, on chapter 23) because both have been underwhelming, while Clanne is the best mage as a Sage. Framme and Jean were useful base class units, but I've pretty much offloaded healing duties to other units at this point. Louis is awesome, obviously, but Diamant (another of my core team) is sadly underwhelming. Kagetsu has terrible Str and is becoming worse as time goes on, though he was an amazing crit-master for a long while. I put Tiki on Anna for most of her first tier, so even though her Str is less than I'd like as a Warrior, she's still one of my main damage dealers. Seadal is a surprisingly good attacker against mage types in addition to his dancing. Etie basically got dropped because Alcryst is just better. Celine is an awful mage, and while Citrine has great Mag, she has awful Spd, so even as a Mage Knight she's not as good as Clanne, who can also heal on top of being better even with his lower Mag.

[Rising Phoenix]

More generally, does anyone else feel like the game is harder than other recent Fire Emblems? I'm in Chapter 12 and one of the bosses has a Brave weapon already. Enemy bosses come with multiple health bars and bodyguards, and they do not sit around waiting for you to mass your troops and attack. Enemies are tankier, requiring much more coordination than the rocket tag that was Three Houses.

I never used to worry about the Smithy in the previous games - now it feels mandatory to keep up with enemy health numbers. I used to "equip and forget" such that the fancy Armorslayer would go on a character and be owned by them until it ran out of durability. Now I'm juggling equipment at the start of every battle to ensure the very best equipment is getting used. New recruits find their fancy swords confiscated.

It feels like a halfway step between Hard and Maddening from Three Houses. On Hard you could send units out in pairs or even solo. Maddening means three or four units teaming up to take down one enemy. Engage isn't quite that bad, but it still leaves me feeling I should have formed an A team and abandoned the rest of my useless units. And then abandoned some of my A team as higher level new recruits show up.

I am playing on maddening and going into the game blind isn't helping but imo this game is harder then lunatic birthright... at the very least on some paralogues. Lack of funds means that you should definitely focus on your A team and dump everyone else. Every single stat point matters on maddening. Some maps I just cut my losses and run, being gold poor be damned.

[Zevox]

Random aside: I just recruited Seadall. Have to say, nice to finally see a male Dancer in the series. Actual Dancer, rather than just a male character with that ability like the Herons in Radiant Dawn, I mean.


Cute little exploit about bond rings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Te5MmTrVE

Also I did not realize how good some of these are...
Bleh, that looks way more annoying and time-consuming than anything. And honestly, the only reason I haven't complained about Bond Rings being this stupid loot-box style RNG system for creation and ridiculously expensive to merge past the silver rank is because they've just seemed to be a handful of bonus stats and nothing more, but knowing that there's a few out there with abilities that potent at the top rank? Gods, does that suck. That's just awful game design, of the sort that f2p mobile games use to pressure you to pay into their micro-transactions. That should not be in a game like this, ever.


More generally, does anyone else feel like the game is harder than other recent Fire Emblems? I'm in Chapter 12 and one of the bosses has a Brave weapon already. Enemy bosses come with multiple health bars and bodyguards, and they do not sit around waiting for you to mass your troops and attack. Enemies are tankier, requiring much more coordination than the rocket tag that was Three Houses.

I never used to worry about the Smithy in the previous games - now it feels mandatory to keep up with enemy health numbers. I used to "equip and forget" such that the fancy Armorslayer would go on a character and be owned by them until it ran out of durability. Now I'm juggling equipment at the start of every battle to ensure the very best equipment is getting used. New recruits find their fancy swords confiscated.

It feels like a halfway step between Hard and Maddening from Three Houses. On Hard you could send units out in pairs or even solo. Maddening means three or four units teaming up to take down one enemy. Engage isn't quite that bad, but it still leaves me feeling I should have formed an A team and abandoned the rest of my useless units. And then abandoned some of my A team as higher level new recruits show up.
Engage on hard certainly feels more difficult than Three Houses on hard, which is the only one I've replayed recently enough to compare. Which is a good and bad thing. On my very short list of criticisms of Three Houses is that it's a touch easier than I'd like even on hard difficulty (I've only played the first few chapters of Maddening, which... seemed appropriately named, is all I can say), so being a bit harder than that is good by me. But when it does it by bumping the level of your enemies up faster than you are leveling in the mid-game and throwing promoted enemies at you while you're still in the low-mid teens, that I'm not so fond of. It's like Three Houses was designed with the balance assumption being that you were never doing missions outside of the main story, while this one is designed with the balance assumption that you will be doing a pretty significant amount of grinding. I would like something in between those, please, which assume you're doing a reasonable amount of side-content, but not a ton. Definitely any Paralogues, maybe an extra skirmish here and there, but certainly less than Engage seems to expect you to do.

I'll also say that I dislike how widely the extra health bars are given out to bosses in this one. In Three Houses those were very effectively used to make the big monster enemies feel like big monsters, especially with how they'd also unlock new abilities that made them tougher to fight as they lost life bars. It was one of the things that forced you to use multiple characters coordinating to take them down, as you should have to do with giant monsters. I can see why you might want to take that mechanic and use it on certain bosses that should feel extra tough; but Engage just throws it on every single chapter boss indiscriminately, and there's no difference between their first and second life bars, so it doesn't feel like anything special anymore. That random bandit that was the first guy they threw it on got the same treatment as the King of Elusia; that just doesn't seem like the way to go.

[LaZodiac]

The first guy who gets the revival stone is the Waluigi man attacking the flower castle, actually. That aside I... kind of agree? But also it doesn't seem that big a deal.

[Zevox]

The first guy who gets the revival stone is the Waluigi man attacking the flower castle, actually. That aside I... kind of agree? But also it doesn't seem that big a deal.
Right, who I think was a bandit hired by the villains, right? Even if I'm misremembering that detail, that is who I was thinking of.

And yeah, it's not game-ruining or anything dramatic like that, just a criticism that's occurred to me repeatedly when I run into a more mundane boss and get reminded "oh, right, I need to take out his life bar twice."

[Rising Phoenix]

Eh the double- triple health bars I don't mind.

IMO overall the gameplay is perhaps the best the series has ever had. Even though emblems are by definition broken the difficulty of the game is such that it mandates their use.

Story and characters on the other hand are not bad, but they are definitely not the best the series has had.

[Rodin]

Eh the double- triple health bars I don't mind.

IMO overall the gameplay is perhaps the best the series has ever had. Even though emblems are by definition broken the difficulty of the game is such that it mandates their use.

Story and characters on the other hand are not bad, but they are definitely not the best the series has had.

I'll dispute the story bit. The story is very, very bad. Laugh out loud terrible.

Alear is the most ineffective Fire Emblem hero I've ever seen. There's no mention of them being a good leader, or a good teacher, or even a good strategist. They're just assumed to be perfect in every way because they're the Divine Dragon, despite having the apparent intelligence of a concussed lemming. Alear has not done anything to make me believe they're worthy of being the protagonist.

Then there's the lack of attention to military realism, or rather what passes for it in Fire Emblem. In all the other games I've played you're leading an army from place to place, and the villains are doing the same. Engage has multiple battles taking place in throne rooms, because you walk into the throne room and suddenly BAM - surprise army! The villains then walk out the door without a care in the world.

Nothing that happens makes sense. The queen gets taken hostage, then doesn't get used as a hostage during the fight...and then emerges from a back room because they didn't bother to guard her. And this happens TWICE! Alear walks into an obvious trap after Marth says it's an obvious trap and apparently only brought a fraction of their army (since your units are locked for the following chapter) but DID bring all of the Emblem rings. Then the 4 hounds...don't bother to chase after Alear? The huge army in the ravine wasn't just waiting outside the door instead?

I could forgive this stuff if there was something else compelling going on, like Awakening's time travel plot. But there really hasn't been so far. It's a bog standard "Collect the Macguffins" plot complete with the hoary old Macguffin Delivery Service trope.

It's dire. It's worse than Fates. And that's saying something.

All that aside, the gameplay is definitely a step up from Three Houses. My biggest complaint with Three Houses was how they got lazy with the maps. They were all pretty standard and got re-used heavily, even for Paralogues. Engage has had a lot more effort put into it and has features I've wanted for a long time (like un-genderlocking the classes). I also really like the compromise they made with fist weapons. Fist weapons were incredibly OP in Three Houses, because an inherent Brave effect is gamebreaking once you get above a certain strength threshold and Grappler-line characters naturally got tons of strength. Engage puts it on your healers which balances things nicely - they don't typically have a lot of strength, but if you do get those level-ups they can Kenshiro their way through almost anything. I just did Lynn's paralogue and Jean punched 4 Bow Knights to death by himself because he got the stats for it, and even Framme is good for bullying squishy wizards.

I did find one nice thing that helps with grinding levels on your weak units. If you lose entirely (i.e. don't finish the map and don't Divine Pulse) the game will give you an option to restart the map but keep the experience. So you can throw a load of yahoos into a map which they cannot win but CAN knock out the first few waves, then throw them to the wolves and restart with a few levels gained and repeat.

My one gameplay criticism is that the Paralogues are pretty weak. Paralogues are supposed to be providing additional story content for your characters, but in Engage you just get a little bit of information about the Emblem whose Paralogue it is. There's also no unique loot. Completing them feels like a level-grinding chore.

[Rising Phoenix]

I'll dispute the story bit. The story is very, very bad. Laugh out loud terrible.

Alear is the most ineffective Fire Emblem hero I've ever seen. There's no mention of them being a good leader, or a good teacher, or even a good strategist. They're just assumed to be perfect in every way because they're the Divine Dragon, despite having the apparent intelligence of a concussed lemming. Alear has not done anything to make me believe they're worthy of being the protagonist.

Then there's the lack of attention to military realism, or rather what passes for it in Fire Emblem. In all the other games I've played you're leading an army from place to place, and the villains are doing the same. Engage has multiple battles taking place in throne rooms, because you walk into the throne room and suddenly BAM - surprise army! The villains then walk out the door without a care in the world.

Nothing that happens makes sense. The queen gets taken hostage, then doesn't get used as a hostage during the fight...and then emerges from a back room because they didn't bother to guard her. And this happens TWICE! Alear walks into an obvious trap after Marth says it's an obvious trap and apparently only brought a fraction of their army (since your units are locked for the following chapter) but DID bring all of the Emblem rings. Then the 4 hounds...don't bother to chase after Alear? The huge army in the ravine wasn't just waiting outside the door instead?

I could forgive this stuff if there was something else compelling going on, like Awakening's time travel plot. But there really hasn't been so far. It's a bog standard "Collect the Macguffins" plot complete with the hoary old Macguffin Delivery Service trope.

It's dire. It's worse than Fates. And that's saying something.

All that aside, the gameplay is definitely a step up from Three Houses. My biggest complaint with Three Houses was how they got lazy with the maps. They were all pretty standard and got re-used heavily, even for Paralogues. Engage has had a lot more effort put into it and has features I've wanted for a long time (like un-genderlocking the classes). I also really like the compromise they made with fist weapons. Fist weapons were incredibly OP in Three Houses, because an inherent Brave effect is gamebreaking once you get above a certain strength threshold and Grappler-line characters naturally got tons of strength. Engage puts it on your healers which balances things nicely - they don't typically have a lot of strength, but if you do get those level-ups they can Kenshiro their way through almost anything. I just did Lynn's paralogue and Jean punched 4 Bow Knights to death by himself because he got the stats for it, and even Framme is good for bullying squishy wizards.

I did find one nice thing that helps with grinding levels on your weak units. If you lose entirely (i.e. don't finish the map and don't Divine Pulse) the game will give you an option to restart the map but keep the experience. So you can throw a load of yahoos into a map which they cannot win but CAN knock out the first few waves, then throw them to the wolves and restart with a few levels gained and repeat.

My one gameplay criticism is that the Paralogues are pretty weak. Paralogues are supposed to be providing additional story content for your characters, but in Engage you just get a little bit of information about the Emblem whose Paralogue it is. There's also no unique loot. Completing them feels like a level-grinding chore.

I am finding the story entertaining, it does not take itself seriously and there are a few twist and turns that I actually didn't predict even though for all intents and purposes its standard FE story telling (and I use the term story telling very very generously). Fates three stories did not entertain me.

Three Houses still has the best writing in the series.

And yes Paralogue's are soulless which is unfortunate. At least they are not weak gameplay wise (looking at you Ike and Micaiah).

[Zevox]

Before getting into the larger discussion, something I've been meaning to ask: what's everyone doing with Lucina's Emblem? I'm finding it the hardest one to get good use out of. Right now I've got it on Fogado just to maximize potential use of Dual Assist (big move range + archer attack range = big range for that ability), but compared to the other Emblems, that's not that powerful. And even when she gets several characters supporting her with her Engage attack, it also feels kind of underwhelming.


I'll dispute the story bit. The story is very, very bad. Laugh out loud terrible.

Alear is the most ineffective Fire Emblem hero I've ever seen. There's no mention of them being a good leader, or a good teacher, or even a good strategist. They're just assumed to be perfect in every way because they're the Divine Dragon, despite having the apparent intelligence of a concussed lemming. Alear has not done anything to make me believe they're worthy of being the protagonist.

Then there's the lack of attention to military realism, or rather what passes for it in Fire Emblem. In all the other games I've played you're leading an army from place to place, and the villains are doing the same. Engage has multiple battles taking place in throne rooms, because you walk into the throne room and suddenly BAM - surprise army! The villains then walk out the door without a care in the world.

Nothing that happens makes sense. The queen gets taken hostage, then doesn't get used as a hostage during the fight...and then emerges from a back room because they didn't bother to guard her. And this happens TWICE! Alear walks into an obvious trap after Marth says it's an obvious trap and apparently only brought a fraction of their army (since your units are locked for the following chapter) but DID bring all of the Emblem rings. Then the 4 hounds...don't bother to chase after Alear? The huge army in the ravine wasn't just waiting outside the door instead?

I could forgive this stuff if there was something else compelling going on, like Awakening's time travel plot. But there really hasn't been so far. It's a bog standard "Collect the Macguffins" plot complete with the hoary old Macguffin Delivery Service trope.

It's dire. It's worse than Fates. And that's saying something.
Eh, I don't agree with all that. I mean, to the first part, Alear is the main character in this game by virtue of blood, not skill, after all - they're the Divine Dragon, whom everyone in this world pretty much worships like a god. But it's pretty clear that they're not truly a deity in any sense we'd think of it. Their actual qualities that are beneficial as the lead character are kindness and empathy, not tactical skill on the battlefield; that's what other characters are supposed to be for. That said, the game could sure do a better job of giving those other characters moments to give Alear advice on that kind of thing, certainly.

As for the incident you bring up,
yeah, that felt kind of stupid to me too, but bear in mind that the hostage-taker there is a preteen girl desperately going through the "bargaining" phase of grief over her father's death, and then being mind-controlled by other villains who are more focused on taking you down and getting your Emblem rings. I can't exactly say I'm surprised she doesn't know how the hostage thing works. Of course, someone as young as Hortensia really shouldn't be involved in fighting in a game like this to begin with, but unfortunately they set that precedent back in Fates with Elise and Sakura, so now we get Hortensia, the twins, Jean, and, for some ungodly reason, Anna de-aged to early childhood.

(Seriously, why are there so many characters in this game that are younger than Lysithea was in part 1 of Three Houses?)
While this game's story and general writing has absolutely nothing on Three Houses, it's not making me go "why are all of you complete idiots?" the way Conquest's story did, nor boring me like Shadow Dragon's. It feels like standard Fire Emblem writing in every regard. There's occasional moments where the characters are interesting - with Ivy and Hortensia in the incident in the spoiler, for instance, I actually like how they were handled - but there's also plenty of characters just having one or two personality traits that they repeat ad nauseam without ever making it interesting or all that fun.

That said, I also don't agree that the gameplay is strictly an improvement on Three Houses', either. There's elements that are good, sure. It's nice at times that it's more challenging (though at other times I'm just annoyed that it presents enemies whose stats are just unreasonably amped-up, or scenarios that are just no-win ones*). The Emblems are fun, if ridiculously OP at times, getting a nice variety of abilities between them, and allowing you to eventually pass many of those abilities off to characters even when they're not using the Emblem itself. But there's definitely things I think Three Houses did better. As previously mentioned, I miss the Combat Artes and Batallions, particularly Batallions - having AoE abilities that could also hold enemies in place was a really fun tool to play around with. I much prefer how Three Houses handled giant monsters to Engage: without the barrier system (and Batallions for it to interact with) and multiple life bars, they just kind of amp the monsters' stats up ridiculously, which isn't nearly as fun or engaging. And let them ignore your defense stats when dealing damage, which just feels like dumb BS, and means you always need to fight them with your most dodge-heavy characters (or whoever has Ike).

I just did this chapter, and was quite glad I'm playing on casual mode, since I do not see how you can avoid losing at least one unit to Zephia. She has Sigurd's Emblem giving her utterly insane move distance, and both physical and magical weaponry which she is quite strong with, plenty of defense/resistance, and you have to chew through two life bars to knock her out. If you don't take her down completely immediately after first engaging her, there is no way to stop her from going after a squishy mage or vulnerable armored knight type and KOing them easily. And since the half of my force with my most powerful units was half a map away fighting Veyle, who is similarly powerful and flexible but at least doesn't have Zephia's mobility, well, like I said, glad I'm playing on casual.

I also think Three Houses' class system was much better, aside from the gender-locking. Going back to a traditional FE class system really makes me appreciate how Three Houses made training characters for specific classes pretty intuitive (as opposed to Engage where you need to figure out which Emblem you need to get them training with in order to access the class you want, and even then you might have to second seal if the advanced class you're aiming for isn't a natural continuation of the base class they're in when you promote them), got rid of the silly 20 level cap thing and just had new classes open up every 10 levels but never reset your level, and had more than just two tiers of classes, so it's not just one big sudden power boost in the mid game when you go into advanced classes, but a more gradual power curve. Plus, why on earth does this game restrict the classes to certain weapons, but then have variants of pretty much every class that use every other weapon type? If you're not having the classes specialize, just let everyone use whatever weapons you have while giving them bonuses to weapons the class is supposed to be good with, like in Three Houses. And why do Emblems providing proficiency in weapons only mean you can now reclass to classes that use those? That was so strange when I realized how that worked.

I also have to strongly disagree about putting the fists weapon on healers being good, personally. That just makes it mostly useless until and unless those characters get lucky growths. I liked having that new weapon style in Three Houses, and the weapons themselves having terrible might, forcing you to rely on the character's raw strength to make their damage good, I felt worked out. There were enemies they were more effective against, mostly squishier ones, and enemies that they weren't (you did not want to use them against Armored Knights/Generals, even with a high-strength character). I want the dedicated class line for those back (and the gender lock on it removed), personally.

Re: Paralogues - I've done a few myself now, and I half agree with the criticism, half don't. Yeah, there's not much story-wise to them; but it is appreciated how they're throwbacks to actual missions from past games, personally. (Though I'm sure it helps there that the first ones you get access to are from games I've played; I'm sure when I get to, say, Sigurd's and Leif's, they'll not be as fun.) If the Emblem Paralogues are the only Paralogues aside from the early ones where you recruit Jean and Anna though, yeah, that is kind of sad. Three Houses definitely had the right idea with those, building them around the game's characters and their more personal stories.

[LaZodiac]

I'm sure you're aware of this but just a note; this is not a de-aged Anna, this is just one of the younger Anna's. The Anna's are an extradimensional collective of near identical women who whenever they have kids, always have an Anna. They traveling the multiverse selling secrets, weapons, and robbing criminals. There are a variety of Anna's, and all the playable Combat Anna's in the series are each different individual Anna's.

[tonberrian]

...Can you marry and have kids with an Anna in Awakening or Fates?

[LaZodiac]

...Can you marry and have kids with an Anna in Awakening or Fates?

Yes to Awakening, there's no playable Anna in Fates and your main character status overwrites the Anna effect which is Annoying, but also it will I'm pretty sure ensure your female Morgan will have Anna coloured hair, so close enough. You are the only person able to do so with the Anna in question as well!

[Zevox]

I'm sure you're aware of this but just a note; this is not a de-aged Anna, this is just one of the younger Anna's. The Anna's are an extradimensional collective of near identical women who whenever they have kids, always have an Anna. They traveling the multiverse selling secrets, weapons, and robbing criminals. There are a variety of Anna's, and all the playable Combat Anna's in the series are each different individual Anna's.
I'm aware that she's not literally de-aged, the developers just chose to make this version of her a child, sure. I just can't fathom why they did that, so I put it that way as a bit of hyperbole to express that frustration.

The rest of that I am not aware of, and if it's anything close to official, I'm just going to choose to ignore it. Because that is some Pokémon anime Nurse Joy/Officer Jenny tier nonsense. You don't need a dumb explanation like that to have a recurring character motif in the series, yeesh.

Edit: Holy ****!
Why the nine hells are there two level 20 Sages with multiple life bars each (3 in one case, 4 in the other) in one corner of this paralogue when it's recommended level is Advanced class 5? And why did 18 reinforcement units spawn when I finally captured the drawbridge, all level 8 advanced class units?

Seriously, I know Genealogy was one of the earlier games in the series, so there was probably some stupid stuff at times, but come on. If you're trying to be faithful to the original, can you maybe do so while toning it down to a more sane degree? This makes me worry what I'm going to see when I eventually get to Leif and Celica's paralogues. Especially Leif, given his game is reputed to be the hardest in the series.

[Rising Phoenix]

Why the nine hells are there two level 20 Sages with multiple life bars each (3 in one case, 4 in the other) in one corner of this paralogue when it's recommended level is Advanced class 5? And why did 18 reinforcement units spawn when I finally captured the drawbridge, all level 8 advanced class units?

Seriously, I know Genealogy was one of the earlier games in the series, so there was probably some stupid stuff at times, but come on. If you're trying to be faithful to the original, can you maybe do so while toning it down to a more sane degree? This makes me worry what I'm going to see when I eventually get to Leif and Celica's paralogues. Especially Leif, given his game is reputed to be the hardest in the series.

as with the Ike and Micaiah paralogue's you're not meant to kill everything. you kill the boss and get out

[Zevox]

as with the Ike and Micaiah paralogue's you're not meant to kill everything. you kill the boss and get out
That's what wound up happening, sure, but mostly because once the drawbridge is down Sigurd and his retinue rush you, but the reinforcements don't, and since he has move 13 and the Sages with him only have move 5, he gets there way before them.

The level 20 Sages though had 2/3 of the gold reward for the stage on them, so it seems like you are expected to go after them. Especially given how tight gold is in this game. I managed to take them down, but it took throwing everything I had at them, and there was no way to drop both in the same turn, so I had to cross my fingers that the one still standing would attack one of Lyn's duplicates over an actual character; he didn't, so that turned into another "glad I'm playing on casual" moment.

[Rodin]

I noticed this on Byleth's paralogue as well. Expected level is Advanced Class 5, which according to how this game calculates difficulty is overall level 25.

Byleth is listed as level 38. Byleth's bodyguards are all level 30. Just...what?

I feel like this game messed up somewhere in the difficulty balancing, because I'm bringing units that are way above the "calculated" level of these stages and still struggling. Not just the Paralogues, the main stages too. I've given up on almost half my units due to bad strength/magic growths - I have very few units with 20+ of either strength or magic and many that never exceeded 12-14 even after getting them to level 20.

Also, I think I've finally sorted out my feelings about the Engage system.

I hate it.

The Engage system means that only half of your army at most is fighting at full power. For much of the game, it's more like 20-25%. They all have a ton of cool stuff loaded onto them, making the rest of your army boring in comparison. They're timed, which encourages an aggressive playstyle that is anathema to my defensive, cautious approach. You can inherit skills off them, but the cool skills take 2-3000 points to learn and not a single unit of mine has crossed that threshold yet. Learning even the basic skills takes a lot of messing about in the Somniel to buy Bond Levels and the two Bond skill shops are in different rooms.

It also means that your army decreases in power over time. By a lot. If you don't use the Engage skills, you struggle to compete with some of the normal enemy groups. But if you do, you find yourself halfway through a mission with no units having skills left. It doesn't help that it's very unclear when the Engage skill of any given unit is going to come back, and the Engage recharge tiles are too rare to allow steady usage of the abilities.

And then there's enemies with the ability. I'll use Chapter 17 as an example because I just got there.

The Bond abilities make bosses incredibly difficult to deal with. Zephia + Sigurd took me several attempts to take down, as if left alive after her initial charge she just Overrides whatever unit you have and instakills them. The way she runs away is pure RNG, and I had to get lucky in the way she ran to corner her and beat her up. It took all my bond abilities to carve through her massive health pool, and she had 20+ defense and Res to make it so most of my units could barely scratch her.

As soon as I beat her, Veyle and Hyacinth charged. Together. With all their bodyguards.

So there's two units with over 100 HP each, and between 25-30 Defense and Res each. No effective weapons working against them. They each have the option of physical and magic attacks thanks to their Emblem abilities.

What the hell are you supposed to do for that? I managed to wall Hyacinth in, but that left Veyle free to pick and choose which unit she wanted to Marth Multi-stab to death.

That particular scenario is the worst one I've seen so far, but it's been my experience with the game in general thus far. Any unit holding an Emblem is SO threatening that they require your entire army to take down, and the units generally come with bodyguards who will pick off a unit the following turn unless defeating them is the win condition. If you get more than one emblem unit threatening at a time you might as well give up.

---

It's just not a lot of fun. The difficulty of the standard enemies is fine for what I'm taking in, but then I feel massively underleveled for the stats of the bosses. The Emblem abilities regularly mean that usual Maddening strats don't work. I'm getting frustrated with the game in a way no other Fire Emblem has.

[Fiery Diamond]

I noticed this on Byleth's paralogue as well. Expected level is Advanced Class 5, which according to how this game calculates difficulty is overall level 25.

Byleth is listed as level 38. Byleth's bodyguards are all level 30. Just...what?

I feel like this game messed up somewhere in the difficulty balancing, because I'm bringing units that are way above the "calculated" level of these stages and still struggling. Not just the Paralogues, the main stages too. I've given up on almost half my units due to bad strength/magic growths - I have very few units with 20+ of either strength or magic and many that never exceeded 12-14 even after getting them to level 20.

Also, I think I've finally sorted out my feelings about the Engage system.

I hate it.

The Engage system means that only half of your army at most is fighting at full power. For much of the game, it's more like 20-25%. They all have a ton of cool stuff loaded onto them, making the rest of your army boring in comparison. They're timed, which encourages an aggressive playstyle that is anathema to my defensive, cautious approach. You can inherit skills off them, but the cool skills take 2-3000 points to learn and not a single unit of mine has crossed that threshold yet. Learning even the basic skills takes a lot of messing about in the Somniel to buy Bond Levels and the two Bond skill shops are in different rooms.

It also means that your army decreases in power over time. By a lot. If you don't use the Engage skills, you struggle to compete with some of the normal enemy groups. But if you do, you find yourself halfway through a mission with no units having skills left. It doesn't help that it's very unclear when the Engage skill of any given unit is going to come back, and the Engage recharge tiles are too rare to allow steady usage of the abilities.

And then there's enemies with the ability. I'll use Chapter 17 as an example because I just got there.

The Bond abilities make bosses incredibly difficult to deal with. Zephia + Sigurd took me several attempts to take down, as if left alive after her initial charge she just Overrides whatever unit you have and instakills them. The way she runs away is pure RNG, and I had to get lucky in the way she ran to corner her and beat her up. It took all my bond abilities to carve through her massive health pool, and she had 20+ defense and Res to make it so most of my units could barely scratch her.

As soon as I beat her, Veyle and Hyacinth charged. Together. With all their bodyguards.

So there's two units with over 100 HP each, and between 25-30 Defense and Res each. No effective weapons working against them. They each have the option of physical and magic attacks thanks to their Emblem abilities.

What the hell are you supposed to do for that? I managed to wall Hyacinth in, but that left Veyle free to pick and choose which unit she wanted to Marth Multi-stab to death.

That particular scenario is the worst one I've seen so far, but it's been my experience with the game in general thus far. Any unit holding an Emblem is SO threatening that they require your entire army to take down, and the units generally come with bodyguards who will pick off a unit the following turn unless defeating them is the win condition. If you get more than one emblem unit threatening at a time you might as well give up.

---

It's just not a lot of fun. The difficulty of the standard enemies is fine for what I'm taking in, but then I feel massively underleveled for the stats of the bosses. The Emblem abilities regularly mean that usual Maddening strats don't work. I'm getting frustrated with the game in a way no other Fire Emblem has.

What difficulty are you playing on? Because comparing my experience to yours, there are a lot of discrepancies. I don't think all the difficulties are equally balanced. I'm playing on normal, and while some of what you said is true for that, some of it isn't. First, there are a crap ton of engage tiles on every map (except skirmishes, which have zero), and I frequently find myself only needing to use engage against bosses, long-distance enemies, and enemies with multiple health bars, meaning I can clear most of the map without engaging other than maybe one or two units. Skirmishes are another story entirely - they're significantly harder, largely due to the way you get rushed.

Based on what you've described about levels and HP, it also appears that the actual levels of the units are different on different difficulties and that the stats of units are much higher on harder difficulties as well. I mean, I didn't even know that units could have over 100 HP, unless you're adding their multiple health bars together.

Honestly, if you want to level a complaint, you should be complaining about the way the different difficulties are balanced, not the engage system. Comparing your experience to mine, it seems that the game just isn't properly balanced at harder difficulties, which really isn't anything new to Fire Emblem. Ever tried to play the harder difficulties on Shadow Dragon? Yuck. On normal, things are pretty good for balance, though the "bosses with emblems are much stronger and more dangerous than the regular units" bit is still true, it's just that if you dogpile them with engaged units of your own you can usually take them out in one or two turns.

I didn't actually have trouble on this map. I took out Griss first (which was a bit of a close call when he teleported, but nobody died), then the Corrupted wyrm in the middle, then Marnie, then brought my whole army up from the south. I baited Zephia, who used Override and knocked the health down on one unit but didn't kill it, then took her out in one turn. Hyacinth charged the unit I sent toward him, but Veyle stayed where she was. I took one turn on him as well, then went after Veyle, tricking her into attacking with magic so that she wouldn't use Marth, then dogpiling her and taking her out in one turn.

Seriously, you shouldn't be using the highest difficulty setting to form your conclusions about the games base mechanics or balancing. At best, you should compare a Normal run and the high-difficulty run and then complain about how the different difficulties aren't equally balanced.

Also, for what it's worth, you actually can tell how long it will be until engage is ready again. There's a segmented curved bar under the picture of the emblem that fills up each time you're in combat or use a staff/dance. It's kind of small and difficult to see if you're playing on the console screen rather than a TV, so I can understand how you might have overlooked it.

I'm completely with you on the Skills part, though.

[Rising Phoenix]

I noticed this on Byleth's paralogue as well. Expected level is Advanced Class 5, which according to how this game calculates difficulty is overall level 25.

Byleth is listed as level 38. Byleth's bodyguards are all level 30. Just...what?

I feel like this game messed up somewhere in the difficulty balancing, because I'm bringing units that are way above the "calculated" level of these stages and still struggling. Not just the Paralogues, the main stages too. I've given up on almost half my units due to bad strength/magic growths - I have very few units with 20+ of either strength or magic and many that never exceeded 12-14 even after getting them to level 20.

Also, I think I've finally sorted out my feelings about the Engage system.

I hate it.

The Engage system means that only half of your army at most is fighting at full power. For much of the game, it's more like 20-25%. They all have a ton of cool stuff loaded onto them, making the rest of your army boring in comparison. They're timed, which encourages an aggressive playstyle that is anathema to my defensive, cautious approach. You can inherit skills off them, but the cool skills take 2-3000 points to learn and not a single unit of mine has crossed that threshold yet. Learning even the basic skills takes a lot of messing about in the Somniel to buy Bond Levels and the two Bond skill shops are in different rooms.

It also means that your army decreases in power over time. By a lot. If you don't use the Engage skills, you struggle to compete with some of the normal enemy groups. But if you do, you find yourself halfway through a mission with no units having skills left. It doesn't help that it's very unclear when the Engage skill of any given unit is going to come back, and the Engage recharge tiles are too rare to allow steady usage of the abilities.

And then there's enemies with the ability. I'll use Chapter 17 as an example because I just got there.

The Bond abilities make bosses incredibly difficult to deal with. Zephia + Sigurd took me several attempts to take down, as if left alive after her initial charge she just Overrides whatever unit you have and instakills them. The way she runs away is pure RNG, and I had to get lucky in the way she ran to corner her and beat her up. It took all my bond abilities to carve through her massive health pool, and she had 20+ defense and Res to make it so most of my units could barely scratch her.

As soon as I beat her, Veyle and Hyacinth charged. Together. With all their bodyguards.

So there's two units with over 100 HP each, and between 25-30 Defense and Res each. No effective weapons working against them. They each have the option of physical and magic attacks thanks to their Emblem abilities.

What the hell are you supposed to do for that? I managed to wall Hyacinth in, but that left Veyle free to pick and choose which unit she wanted to Marth Multi-stab to death.

That particular scenario is the worst one I've seen so far, but it's been my experience with the game in general thus far. Any unit holding an Emblem is SO threatening that they require your entire army to take down, and the units generally come with bodyguards who will pick off a unit the following turn unless defeating them is the win condition. If you get more than one emblem unit threatening at a time you might as well give up.

---

It's just not a lot of fun. The difficulty of the standard enemies is fine for what I'm taking in, but then I feel massively underleveled for the stats of the bosses. The Emblem abilities regularly mean that usual Maddening strats don't work. I'm getting frustrated with the game in a way no other Fire Emblem has.

I actually like the game for the reasons you hate it. Turtling still works on some maps, but not all, likewise with death ball. Other maps you have to blitzkrieg the boss (micaiah, ike I am looking at you). I agree with you on the emblems though. If you don't have them your units kinda suck.

Edit: Also are you using staves? They are kinda of strong. Particularly when engaged micaiah can make it them effect four tiles at a time (and that's ALL staves).

[Rodin]

What difficulty are you playing on? Because comparing my experience to yours, there are a lot of discrepancies. I don't think all the difficulties are equally balanced. I'm playing on normal, and while some of what you said is true for that, some of it isn't. First, there are a crap ton of engage tiles on every map (except skirmishes, which have zero), and I frequently find myself only needing to use engage against bosses, long-distance enemies, and enemies with multiple health bars, meaning I can clear most of the map without engaging other than maybe one or two units. Skirmishes are another story entirely - they're significantly harder, largely due to the way you get rushed.

Based on what you've described about levels and HP, it also appears that the actual levels of the units are different on different difficulties and that the stats of units are much higher on harder difficulties as well. I mean, I didn't even know that units could have over 100 HP, unless you're adding their multiple health bars together.

Honestly, if you want to level a complaint, you should be complaining about the way the different difficulties are balanced, not the engage system. Comparing your experience to mine, it seems that the game just isn't properly balanced at harder difficulties, which really isn't anything new to Fire Emblem. Ever tried to play the harder difficulties on Shadow Dragon? Yuck. On normal, things are pretty good for balance, though the "bosses with emblems are much stronger and more dangerous than the regular units" bit is still true, it's just that if you dogpile them with engaged units of your own you can usually take them out in one or two turns.

I didn't actually have trouble on this map. I took out Griss first (which was a bit of a close call when he teleported, but nobody died), then the Corrupted wyrm in the middle, then Marnie, then brought my whole army up from the south. I baited Zephia, who used Override and knocked the health down on one unit but didn't kill it, then took her out in one turn. Hyacinth charged the unit I sent toward him, but Veyle stayed where she was. I took one turn on him as well, then went after Veyle, tricking her into attacking with magic so that she wouldn't use Marth, then dogpiling her and taking her out in one turn.

Seriously, you shouldn't be using the highest difficulty setting to form your conclusions about the games base mechanics or balancing. At best, you should compare a Normal run and the high-difficulty run and then complain about how the different difficulties aren't equally balanced.

Also, for what it's worth, you actually can tell how long it will be until engage is ready again. There's a segmented curved bar under the picture of the emblem that fills up each time you're in combat or use a staff/dance. It's kind of small and difficult to see if you're playing on the console screen rather than a TV, so I can understand how you might have overlooked it.

I'm completely with you on the Skills part, though.

Firstly, yes, 100 HP is counting both health bars. A boss that has 50 HP that heals to full on death and then enrages is not a boss with 50 HP, it is a boss with 100 HP and two phases.

I'm playing on Hard/Classic, because that has been "Normal" difficulty for Fire Emblem since at least Awakening and possibly even earlier than that (the only earlier game I've played is Sacred Stones, and my memories of that game are fuzzy at best).

Which I guess is the problem. Normal difficulty in the previous 3 titles has been "Baby's First TBS" difficulty, where halfway through the campaign enemies literally cannot hit/damage your units and you have to try to lose. The game also gives Maddening as a starting option which further distorts the difficulty tiers - Hard is the middle difficulty of 3, with no "Easy/Story" difficulty to separate out the level an experienced player should be playing at.

I'm going to keep plugging away on Hard for the moment, do a bit of level grinding and money grinding so that I'm sufficiently overleveled to beat down bosses. I've discovered a cool way to farm EXP - if you do a mission and let it Game Over, it allows you to keep the EXP. Since you aren't spending weapon usages (excepting heal staves) you can just go in, get a chunk of experience, die, and then try again.

I am interested in starting a Normal playthrough though. The difference should be enlightening.

[Zevox]

Firstly, yes, 100 HP is counting both health bars. A boss that has 50 HP that heals to full on death and then enrages is not a boss with 50 HP, it is a boss with 100 HP and two phases.

I'm playing on Hard/Classic, because that has been "Normal" difficulty for Fire Emblem since at least Awakening and possibly even earlier than that (the only earlier game I've played is Sacred Stones, and my memories of that game are fuzzy at best).

Which I guess is the problem. Normal difficulty in the previous 3 titles has been "Baby's First TBS" difficulty, where halfway through the campaign enemies literally cannot hit/damage your units and you have to try to lose. The game also gives Maddening as a starting option which further distorts the difficulty tiers - Hard is the middle difficulty of 3, with no "Easy/Story" difficulty to separate out the level an experienced player should be playing at.

I'm going to keep plugging away on Hard for the moment, do a bit of level grinding and money grinding so that I'm sufficiently overleveled to beat down bosses. I've discovered a cool way to farm EXP - if you do a mission and let it Game Over, it allows you to keep the EXP. Since you aren't spending weapon usages (excepting heal staves) you can just go in, get a chunk of experience, die, and then try again.

I am interested in starting a Normal playthrough though. The difference should be enlightening.
I'm surprised you're on Hard, honestly, as that's what I'm on as well, and while I share some of your complaints, yours sound like they were worse than mine. For instance, I don't think that Byleth and his super-units were that high level when I played it - though admittedly maybe I missed it. Still, I was ultimately able to manage that one without losing anybody, and while I didn't kill all of Byleth's buddies, I did take down a couple that gold on them.

Or on Chapter 17,
I didn't have problems with Zephia running away, or insta-killing with Overrun. I had problems with the fact that her mobility let her pick and choose targets if I gave her any opportunity to move at all after reaching my units. She could use a magic weapon on Louis, or a physical one on Jean, and always kill them if I gave her that chance, and denying her that chance was basically impossible because of the mobility Sigurd gives her. So I had to just bait her in with someone she couldn't insta-kill, then try to take her out in one turn - which it turned out wasn't possible with the five units I had fighting her. So that became a "glad I'm on casual" moment for me, as I'd otherwise have needed to restart (and not wanting to do that ever again when I have the option not to is why I started using casual after my first run of Awakening was on classic). I'm sure if I'd been able to fight Zephia with more than half of my army before Veyle and Hyacinth came after me, I could've managed that.

But I simply didn't have the luxury of fighting her separately from Veyle at all, as those two plus Hyacinth all charged me at once. Fortunately Veyle and Zephia went for different groups (I had half my army go north at the start, towards Griss, the other half go west towards Marnie; Zephia went after the former, Veyle the latter), and I was able to take down Hyacinth right before Zephia got to the second group.

(The five fighting Veyle had a similar problem keeping some characters alive against her, but her lower mobility let me maneuver to deny her kill shots while Alear+Lyn (who she couldn't hit without extreme luck) and Diamant+Ike (who was too tanky for her kill) did most of the real fighting.)
I do in general agree that the game's tendency to amp up enemy stats to the point where you absolutely need to throw all of your strongest stuff at bosses to actually overcome them without losing anyone is frustrating, though. This applies not just to enemies with Emblems, but late-game bosses, giant monsters, and other units that they decide to let have extra health bars in general. Especially since, frankly, not all Emblems make units super-powerful. Lyn and Ike might be amazing for that, but I don't think anyone will accuse Micaiah or Lucina of being broken and overpowered. They have some situationally strong stuff, but nothing comparable to the best. Even Celica, who seems so strong in the early game, is a lot less impressive later on, I'm finding, simply because you're now at the point in the game where Ragnarok's damage is more appropriate, rather than stupidly huge. Or there's Sigurd, who definitely provides some powerful effects, but just doesn't do so much against a single boss enemy most of the time. So you're stuck just bringing whatever specific units have the Emblems that are good boss-busters to bear, and heaven help you if they're not engaged or ready to engage.

I don't find that I struggle to fight normal enemies without engaged Emblems like you mentioned, though - heck, I'm often probably holding them back too much, figuring "eh, I don't need to use this Emblem now, why waste the turn of engage?" Although you may still be at the point in the game where you're transitioning between unpromoted high-level units and early promoted units? Because yeah, from about level 13/14 until promotion or so (basically after the mid-game two-chapter event), I did find that the game wanted to throw enemies above my team's average level at me, and throw in a promoted unit or two here and there just for fun, and that sucked. Definitely a balancing fail there.

I'm honestly not sure what difficulty I'll pick whenever I replay the game now. Part of me wants to see what it's like on normal, but another part of me now feels like I'm handling hard fine enough, and the experience will make it easier next time, since I now obviously have a better idea of how the game works.


Other maps you have to blitzkrieg the boss (micaiah, ike I am looking at you).
Feels odd that you say that,
I just did Micaiah's paralogue, and I played it super defensively. Same I way I did the original version of it in Radiant Dawn, actually: turtled up at the top of the map, with a strong front line of high-defense units, and ranged units behind them and the walls. Use the canon liberally and the ballistas when they help. The only things I left alive when I took Micaiah down were a few flying reinforcements that had come up in the last couple of turns and were just reaching the battlefield.

Played Ike's similarly defensively for the most part, but once he came running and demolished the entire frickin' ruin between us (seriously, that was a mind-boggling moment), I did realize that taking him down and ignoring the rest of what was left was kind of mandatory. They put a lot of respect on Ike in this game, between talking up how he's one of the most powerful Emblems, actually making him one of the most powerful Emblems in terms of his effects and weapons, and that crazy moment.

[Fiery Diamond]

One thing that's useful about even weaker emblems (so long as their special is an attack, rather than a support) is that engage special attacks, the kind you can use once per engage, have 100% hit rate and don't provoke counterattacks. This can be a literal lifesaver against some bosses and strong enemies. On the flipside, that means that an engaged enemy can 100%-hit-no-counters-allowed your units if they get the chance.

I had a forced use of the divine pulse/turn wheel against Past!Alear when I baited him with Alear due to Lodestar Rush. I ended up switching to using Louis, who i thought would fall to a rapier Lodestar Rush, but either he had high enough defense to turn it to piddling damage anyway or Past!Alear didn't use the rapier for some reason - I'm pretty sure it was the former.


I still have two chapters left; I've taken a break from the story to grind my units up to level 20 advanced for no particular reason (certainly not because I'm in desperate need of it). Question for those who have finished: does the shop ever sell infinite physics? I plan to grind all my benched units up to 20 as well, and if infinite physics become available I'd rather wait until they do before doing so, even if it means finishing off the story first.

[Zevox]

:smallconfused: What's the point of grinding after you've finished the story? If this game has post-game content, that'd be a first for the series.

Just did Celica's paralogue, and
it was almost comically easy compared to the rest of them (aside from Lucina's, which I think is intentionally the easiest). I had the three summoners down on turn two or three (I'm second-guessing myself on which...): Astra Storm from Alear+Lyn took out the middle one on turn one, then the others got taken out by Timerra and Jade (who has Sigurd) as quickly as they could get there, since that first wave of troops they summoned didn't really slow me down. Celica Warp-Ragnaroked at me on turn 1 because I flew Chloe off the back of the ship just into range of that, but all that did was make it so I could take her down before the Dragons in the back became any kind of issue.

I mean, I am slightly over-leveled for it since I've been doing all the paralogues recently, but not a lot (average character level 12 promoted, it's intended for 10). Well, except Alear, who is promoted level 15 since the game won't ever let me leave her on the bench if it's not a skirmish, but her biggest contribution was that Astra Storm and distracting a bunch of enemies with Lyn's duplicates, not killing a bunch of things.

I didn't even bring several of my most powerful characters - Diamant (who has Ike), Citrinne (who has Byleth and is my most powerful mage), and Ivy (who is just strong, no Emblem) were all left on the sidelines so I could train some of the others more. I figured being a bit over-leveled would make it fine to leave that much firepower behind, and I guess I was right, just way more so than I expected. After the slogs that were Leif, Micaiah, and Roy's paralogues, I was not expecting a quick and easy win from the second-to-last Emblem paralogue.

[Rising Phoenix]

Feels odd that you say that,
I just did Micaiah's paralogue, and I played it super defensively. Same I way I did the original version of it in Radiant Dawn, actually: turtled up at the top of the map, with a strong front line of high-defense units, and ranged units behind them and the walls. Use the canon liberally and the ballistas when they help. The only things I left alive when I took Micaiah down were a few flying reinforcements that had come up in the last couple of turns and were just reaching the battlefield.

Played Ike's similarly defensively for the most part, but once he came running and demolished the entire frickin' ruin between us (seriously, that was a mind-boggling moment), I did realize that taking him down and ignoring the rest of what was left was kind of mandatory. They put a lot of respect on Ike in this game, between talking up how he's one of the most powerful Emblems, actually making him one of the most powerful Emblems in terms of his effects and weapons, and that crazy moment.


Can't do that on Lunatic. You get swarmed and you can't kill units fast enough. You must kill the boss asap and get out.I am sure there's way to abuse it, but I was doing it blind so I couldn't prep for it.

[LaZodiac]

:smallconfused: What's the point of grinding after you've finished the story? If this game has post-game content, that'd be a first for the series.

Just did Celica's paralogue, and
it was almost comically easy compared to the rest of them (aside from Lucina's, which I think is intentionally the easiest). I had the three summoners down on turn two or three (I'm second-guessing myself on which...): Astra Storm from Alear+Lyn took out the middle one on turn one, then the others got taken out by Timerra and Jade (who has Sigurd) as quickly as they could get there, since that first wave of troops they summoned didn't really slow me down. Celica Warp-Ragnaroked at me on turn 1 because I flew Chloe off the back of the ship just into range of that, but all that did was make it so I could take her down before the Dragons in the back became any kind of issue.

I mean, I am slightly over-leveled for it since I've been doing all the paralogues recently, but not a lot (average character level 12 promoted, it's intended for 10). Well, except Alear, who is promoted level 15 since the game won't ever let me leave her on the bench if it's not a skirmish, but her biggest contribution was that Astra Storm and distracting a bunch of enemies with Lyn's duplicates, not killing a bunch of things.

I didn't even bring several of my most powerful characters - Diamant (who has Ike), Citrinne (who has Byleth and is my most powerful mage), and Ivy (who is just strong, no Emblem) were all left on the sidelines so I could train some of the others more. I figured being a bit over-leveled would make it fine to leave that much firepower behind, and I guess I was right, just way more so than I expected. After the slogs that were Leif, Micaiah, and Roy's paralogues, I was not expecting a quick and easy win from the second-to-last Emblem paralogue.

Actually a couple Fire Emblem games DO have post-game content. Sacred Stones has the Towers, which have unique bonus stuff unlock after beating the game (and may even have unique bonus maps you can access, it's been awhile), and Path of Radiance has a slew of bespoke bonus maps you can participate in using your save file, most of which unlock after beating the game. Binding Blade also has Hector Hard Mode, which isn't post-game per-say, but has the vibe of a post-game challenge? I also think Binding Blade and Sacred Stones both have a silly little VS Mode link-cable arena thing, that is functionally a post-game thing since I can't imagine participating in this without a complete end-game team.

Oh right and Awakening has some bonus paralogues that are only unlocked post-game, and I believe Fates does as well. You could also make an argument some of the DLC for these games is strictly post-game as well, due to sheer difficulty.

[Fiery Diamond]

Also, it's not like I'm going to delete the save file once I finish, and 1) post-game is pretty much the only time to bother with the Tower of Trials for me, and 2) I have the DLC, and the Divine Paralogues scale in difficulty so when the other waves do finally come out that will basically be post-game content for me on this save file.

[Rodin]

I don't find that I struggle to fight normal enemies without engaged Emblems like you mentioned, though - heck, I'm often probably holding them back too much, figuring "eh, I don't need to use this Emblem now, why waste the turn of engage?" Although you may still be at the point in the game where you're transitioning between unpromoted high-level units and early promoted units? Because yeah, from about level 13/14 until promotion or so (basically after the mid-game two-chapter event), I did find that the game wanted to throw enemies above my team's average level at me, and throw in a promoted unit or two here and there just for fun, and that sucked. Definitely a balancing fail there.


It sounds like you're holding off until 20 to promote, which from what I understand is a mistake. Engage has an "internal level" which tracks what experience level a character really is, and thus determines the experience you get. Vander looks like he's getting low experience because he's promoted, but in actuality it's because he starts at level 15. Promoted classes have strictly superior growths and base classes have no skills to learn, so there's no reason not to promote the instant you get a Master Seal. Probably why the game is so stingy with them.

I've fixed my problem, which was that I was treating the game like Three Houses. I was keeping all units at the same level so I have flexibility and get to see their supports, and I only ditched the handful of characters who fell below a recoverable state (Clanne going 10 levels without a single Magic growth being a prime example).

So I ditched all my "just okay" characters and dropped down to just my A team. 12 characters, and if I need something else...oh well! Then I put a couple levels on all of them by doing skirmishes. Then I did a couple of the earlier Paralogues I had skipped due to difficulty - Ike's and Byleths. Despite being listed as higher level than Chapter 17 and having higher level units I found both Paralogues significantly easier.

Finally, I did something I should have done earlier - I leveled up weapons. Giving a single upgrade to most weapons is relatively cheap and gives +2 damage. That's not insignificant across your entire army. Certain units got extra - Etie with a +3 Killer Bow and Corrin's Engraving is a monster. I underestimated the Smithy because in most Fire Emblem games its either not needed or way too expensive.

On Chapter 17 itself, I made one major mistake that made the mission unbeatable for me. I did the tactically smart thing of attacking where the enemy was weak. Hitting the right side of the map allows you to take Griss and Zephia by themselves, which seems good on paper. Except there are very few Engage refills on that side of the map, and advancing that quickly means you're closer to Hyacinth and Veyle when they charge.

So I went the opposite way. It turns out Griss suicides himself on you no matter what, so going to him turns out to be pointless. I wasn't particularly slow in clearing the other two bosses and I still barely had time before Veyle and Hyacinth were on their way.

This is where I found the other secret sauce to dealing with the frustrating bosses - Freeze Staves. I hadn't bothered with them because I assumed bosses would be immune. I thought wrongly.

Bosses are not immune. They don't even get resistance against it. You can Freeze a boss in place until the end of time if you have enough charges. I froze Veyle for two turns while I dogpiled Hyacinth and his bodyguards, then turned around and jumped her.

Since then the game has been trivial. Because I'm not using 2/3rds of my army I'm now way overleveled and can do stuff like send Yunaka into half a dozen enemies who have a 0% hit chance.

[Fiery Diamond]

It sounds like you're holding off until 20 to promote, which from what I understand is a mistake. Engage has an "internal level" which tracks what experience level a character really is, and thus determines the experience you get. Vander looks like he's getting low experience because he's promoted, but in actuality it's because he starts at level 15. Promoted classes have strictly superior growths and base classes have no skills to learn, so there's no reason not to promote the instant you get a Master Seal. Probably why the game is so stingy with them.

I've fixed my problem, which was that I was treating the game like Three Houses. I was keeping all units at the same level so I have flexibility and get to see their supports, and I only ditched the handful of characters who fell below a recoverable state (Clanne going 10 levels without a single Magic growth being a prime example).

So I ditched all my "just okay" characters and dropped down to just my A team. 12 characters, and if I need something else...oh well! Then I put a couple levels on all of them by doing skirmishes. Then I did a couple of the earlier Paralogues I had skipped due to difficulty - Ike's and Byleths. Despite being listed as higher level than Chapter 17 and having higher level units I found both Paralogues significantly easier.

Finally, I did something I should have done earlier - I leveled up weapons. Giving a single upgrade to most weapons is relatively cheap and gives +2 damage. That's not insignificant across your entire army. Certain units got extra - Etie with a +3 Killer Bow and Corrin's Engraving is a monster. I underestimated the Smithy because in most Fire Emblem games its either not needed or way too expensive.

On Chapter 17 itself, I made one major mistake that made the mission unbeatable for me. I did the tactically smart thing of attacking where the enemy was weak. Hitting the right side of the map allows you to take Griss and Zephia by themselves, which seems good on paper. Except there are very few Engage refills on that side of the map, and advancing that quickly means you're closer to Hyacinth and Veyle when they charge.

So I went the opposite way. It turns out Griss suicides himself on you no matter what, so going to him turns out to be pointless. I wasn't particularly slow in clearing the other two bosses and I still barely had time before Veyle and Hyacinth were on their way.

This is where I found the other secret sauce to dealing with the frustrating bosses - Freeze Staves. I hadn't bothered with them because I assumed bosses would be immune. I thought wrongly.

Bosses are not immune. They don't even get resistance against it. You can Freeze a boss in place until the end of time if you have enough charges. I froze Veyle for two turns while I dogpiled Hyacinth and his bodyguards, then turned around and jumped her.

Since then the game has been trivial. Because I'm not using 2/3rds of my army I'm now way overleveled and can do stuff like send Yunaka into half a dozen enemies who have a 0% hit chance.

My luck with level ups has been different from most people's it seems. Clanne was good (worse Mag than Citrinne, but still good and also having good Spd) and Yunaka needed lots of forging to even keep up because she got terrible level ups consistently).

[Rodin]

My luck with level ups has been different from most people's it seems. Clanne was good (worse Mag than Citrinne, but still good and also having good Spd) and Yunaka needed lots of forging to even keep up because she got terrible level ups consistently).

My Yunaka struggles with damage a bit, because...well, she's a Thief. She's not one-rounding anything that's wearing armor more complex than a robe. What she does well is Evade Tank. Standing in an open field she has over 100 evade. In a forest or a fortress she is untouchable. She murders casters and can solo Warriors and Berserkers because they have poor defense and typically have a 0% hit chance against her.

Needless to say she hangs out with Louis a lot. Louis tanks non-magical stuff, particularly accurate sword boys. Yunaka steps up when mages or hard hitting axe dudes are about.

My true MVP though is Anna. I took her down a Warrior path because she starts with an axe and, well, it's hilarious. Her magic has actually grown faster than her strength so she caught up there, and she got a ton of Resistance when that's not the sort of stat I'd expect for a Warrior.

With that combination I stuck Ike on her and gave her a Silver Axe and a Radiant Bow. She needs healing every so often, but apart from that she's a one-woman army.

---

Beat Eirika's Paralogue, and that certainly brought me back to earth after crushing the past few missions. Took me 2 hours to navigate my way through it without losing anyone, and it felt like a puzzle scenario. Extremely fun though, and it didn't feel cheap. I almost lost at the end though when I somehow triggered Eirika's bodyguard squad brigade a mere one turn before I had my units in position. If it was an Enrage timer it was an extremely inconvenient one.

[Zevox]

So, I just did chapters 20 and 21.
Well, I can safely say I did not see most of that coming. Mauvier betraying the Four Fangs and joining you I did - honestly, I figured that'd happen from the moment I saw him just because he doesn't look like an edgelord like the rest of the Fangs, and knew it would when he showed he cared about non-evil Veyle - but the rest of it, not so much. Well, okay, obviously once Sigurd and the other emblems mentioned they had a "miracle" power they could do beyond the once-every-thousand-years one, that Chekov's Gun had to get fired at some point, and bringing Alear back to life makes sense for that, but turning her into an Emblem too came out of left field.

I was kind of frustrated at the moment in there where Sombron just suddenly goes "And now I have all the Emblems," though. Um, how? Sure, you just killed Alear, but she had two of them tops, the one she had equipped plus Marth's that Veyle just handed her. What about the other ten, why do you just magically have those? At least show him stealing them like back in chapter 10, geez.

Also... how did the Emblems regain their senses to be able to interact with Alear and choose to grant the miracle when she summoned them the Fell Dragon way while corrupted? We're just gonna paper over that one, huh?

Kind of weird that Alear's hair is back to normal and the Emblem glow has worn off right after the cutscene, too. I know they said she still gets to have a body, but I would expect it to look like she does as an Emblem...

Also, hurray, child murder... of course Marnie had to be the one they make Zephia kill to show just how evil she really is, as if that was in doubt. How fun.


Actually a couple Fire Emblem games DO have post-game content. Sacred Stones has the Towers, which have unique bonus stuff unlock after beating the game (and may even have unique bonus maps you can access, it's been awhile), and Path of Radiance has a slew of bespoke bonus maps you can participate in using your save file, most of which unlock after beating the game. Binding Blade also has Hector Hard Mode, which isn't post-game per-say, but has the vibe of a post-game challenge? I also think Binding Blade and Sacred Stones both have a silly little VS Mode link-cable arena thing, that is functionally a post-game thing since I can't imagine participating in this without a complete end-game team.

Oh right and Awakening has some bonus paralogues that are only unlocked post-game, and I believe Fates does as well. You could also make an argument some of the DLC for these games is strictly post-game as well, due to sheer difficulty.
Huh, looking it up apparently Sacred Stones did have a post-game mode, called "Creature Campaign," which added extra rewards to the Tower and Ruins areas. And Path of Radiance had "Trial Maps" that unlocked when you beat the game. I honestly don't remember those at all - chalk it up to me not caring about them back when I played those, I guess.

I wouldn't consider Hector Hard Mode a post-game thing though, it's a (slight) variation of the main story you just need to unlock. And I can't find anything about Awakening or Fates having Paralogues that only opened after beating the game - you sure you're not just thinking about the DLC for them?

The DLC is another fair point though. I've only ever bought DLC for Three Houses, which didn't have anything you could describe as post-game content among it, just the side-story as a separate mode and additional stuff for the main story. So I can't speak to whether the DLC for Awakening and Fates was something you could reasonably do before beating the game.


Also, it's not like I'm going to delete the save file once I finish, and 1) post-game is pretty much the only time to bother with the Tower of Trials for me, and 2) I have the DLC, and the Divine Paralogues scale in difficulty so when the other waves do finally come out that will basically be post-game content for me on this save file.
I honestly forget the Tower of Trials exists, because from the one time I tried playing it, it seemed like a complete waste of time. Three maps to clear, all of which are of the "you're surrounded by a lot of enemies that are going to all rush you" variety, and the rewards at the end aren't even anywhere near enough to give the first upgrade one of your Emblems' weapons? No thank you, that is neither fun nor rewarding.


It sounds like you're holding off until 20 to promote, which from what I understand is a mistake. Engage has an "internal level" which tracks what experience level a character really is, and thus determines the experience you get. Vander looks like he's getting low experience because he's promoted, but in actuality it's because he starts at level 15. Promoted classes have strictly superior growths and base classes have no skills to learn, so there's no reason not to promote the instant you get a Master Seal. Probably why the game is so stingy with them.
I am, yes - longtime habbit from the games where you only got 40 levels total to work with. It did occur to me later that it might be less important to do that since this game lets you reset your level with Second Seals, but at the same time, that means you'll need to do that earlier than if you wait to promote. Even if I'd waited to 15 unpromoted to start promoting, I'd now need to start sinking money into Second Seals, for example, and money is in way too short supply in this game for that sound complete okay.

Also, most promoted classes' growth rates are not a big step up from their base counterparts. It's mostly +5% to a couple of stats. Better, yes, but not "I have to get that boost ASAP!" better.


I've fixed my problem, which was that I was treating the game like Three Houses. I was keeping all units at the same level so I have flexibility and get to see their supports, and I only ditched the handful of characters who fell below a recoverable state (Clanne going 10 levels without a single Magic growth being a prime example).
:smallconfused: Yeah, that seems like it would be a pretty obvious source of your issues. Even in Three Houses you could only pull that off because you had fewer characters and a lot of paralogues that get thrown at you all throughout the game. In this one you're quickly flooded with characters and the paralogues are mostly loaded into the second half.


Finally, I did something I should have done earlier - I leveled up weapons. Giving a single upgrade to most weapons is relatively cheap and gives +2 damage. That's not insignificant across your entire army. Certain units got extra - Etie with a +3 Killer Bow and Corrin's Engraving is a monster. I underestimated the Smithy because in most Fire Emblem games its either not needed or way too expensive.
Also surprised you hadn't done that. I noticed pretty quickly that first +1 to most weapons is really valuable. Hell, a lot of my weapons are still just +1, due to money concerns and the later levels not offering as much.


My luck with level ups has been different from most people's it seems. Clanne was good (worse Mag than Citrinne, but still good and also having good Spd) and Yunaka needed lots of forging to even keep up because she got terrible level ups consistently).
My Yunaka had terrible strength for a long time, until she suddenly started gaining it every level at like 24+ (and I still slapped Roy's Strength+2 skill on her to help anyway). RNG eventually evening out there I suppose. Even with crap strength though, given Corrin, she's still really valuable. When not engaged she puts up that smokescreen whenever you need it and can debuff enemies with Draconic Hex (nicely synergizes with daggers already applying a debuff, poison), and when engaged Torrential Roar doesn't seem to care about her strength stat and she adds Dreadful Aura to render enemies she hits immobile on top of the other debuffs.

Clanne though, yeah, you got lucky. His personal magic growth rate is only 10%, which means that even with the huge mage class boost, he only has a 35% chance to gain magic on level up. That's only 10% better than Louis' odds of gaining speed on level up. That's why so many of us had his magic crap out on us and dumped him.

Also, surprisingly, a sub-par speed is easier to fix than a sub-par strength or magic, because Lyn can provide Speed+ skills (and Leif Build+ skills, if you need help using heavier weapons without a speed penalty) way cheaper than Roy and Celica provide Strength+ and Magic+. I gave Citrinne Speed+3 and Build+3 for her skills, and now she doubles all the time even with Bolganone and just kills pretty much whatever I throw her at.

[LaZodiac]

Huh, looking it up apparently Sacred Stones did have a post-game mode, called "Creature Campaign," which added extra rewards to the Tower and Ruins areas. And Path of Radiance had "Trial Maps" that unlocked when you beat the game. I honestly don't remember those at all - chalk it up to me not caring about them back when I played those, I guess.

I wouldn't consider Hector Hard Mode a post-game thing though, it's a (slight) variation of the main story you just need to unlock. And I can't find anything about Awakening or Fates having Paralogues that only opened after beating the game - you sure you're not just thinking about the DLC for them?

The DLC is another fair point though. I've only ever bought DLC for Three Houses, which didn't have anything you could describe as post-game content among it, just the side-story as a separate mode and additional stuff for the main story. So I can't speak to whether the DLC for Awakening and Fates was something you could reasonably do before beating the game.


There are paralogues that open up post game that let you recruit all the people who died, plus Mist's descendent who just kinda planeswalked from Tellius for some reason. You can do this if you want a lot of the standard Fremblem Last Minute Super Strong Prepromotes, or if you want to smooch Gangrel, for... some, reason.

Also some of the DLC is definitely keyed to being post game, like the final challenge where the divine Anna lord makes you fight an army of the strongest of the strong. Lots of severely challenging maps and junk!

[Zevox]

There are paralogues that open up post game that let you recruit all the people who died, plus Mist's descendent who just kinda planeswalked from Tellius for some reason. You can do this if you want a lot of the standard Fremblem Last Minute Super Strong Prepromotes, or if you want to smooch Gangrel, for... some, reason.

Also some of the DLC is definitely keyed to being post game, like the final challenge where the divine Anna lord makes you fight an army of the strongest of the strong. Lots of severely challenging maps and junk!
Ah, I've figured it out. Those aren't post-game content (though they're close), and there's a reason I never had them: they're SpotPass content that would unlock after finishing the second-to-last chapter in Awakening. I never used SpotPass, so I couldn't unlock them.

[LaZodiac]

Ah, I've figured it out. Those aren't post-game content (though they're close), and there's a reason I never had them: they're SpotPass content that would unlock after finishing the second-to-last chapter in Awakening. I never used SpotPass, so I couldn't unlock them.

God right I forgot that was how they did that. Also forgot it was second to last chapter- though honestly that still feels like post game enough to me.

[Zevox]

My true MVP though is Anna. I took her down a Warrior path because she starts with an axe and, well, it's hilarious. Her magic has actually grown faster than her strength so she caught up there, and she got a ton of Resistance when that's not the sort of stat I'd expect for a Warrior.

With that combination I stuck Ike on her and gave her a Silver Axe and a Radiant Bow. She needs healing every so often, but apart from that she's a one-woman army.
Missed this post before. There's a reason your Anna turned out like that: even though she starts in axe fighter, she has the growth rates of a mage. Her natural strength growth is only 15%; her magic is 50%, which is actually the highest of any playable character in the game. Her defense growth (20%) is similarly lower than her resistance growth (35%) - those numbers being almost identical to Citrinne's.

Basically, if you leave her in her default class line, you'll probably have to hand her the Hurricane Axe and/or Radiant Bow eventually; or you could class-change her to mage and she'll probably be the game's strongest of those. (She also has a 50% natural speed growth, which ties Clanne for best among the game's natural mages and is only 5% lower than the highest speed growth characters in the game.)

Speaking of the magic weapons though, is anyone else finding them much less useful than in other Fire Emblem games? It feels like physical characters with a decent magic growth rate are very rare. Even Alear doesn't get it; I left my first Levin Sword with mine for a long time, but recently tossed it in the convoy because she just wasn't using it. Her Armorslayer was better against armored foes, and those are the only thing the Levin Sword was even halfway worth thinking about against. I've got Flame Lances on Timerra and Chloe, and they're okay at letting them fight armored units, but not great; if there were an armor-slayer lance, I could see them going the same way as Alear. Fogado is my only unit really getting good use of one with the Radiant Bow. And I don't have anyone who can use the Hurricane Axe to decent effect, all my axe-users have single-digit magic scores (or just barely double-digit in Jade's case).

[Zevox]

Finished the game today.
Yeah, that's pretty much the ending I expected. I mean, okay, the bit about Sombron being from another world was out of left field, but also didn't really matter. There's a few things I could say about the final chapters, such as that trying to humanize Zephia and Griss at the last minute was a bad idea, that the time-travel element to the one chapter seemed gratuitous and unnecessary (and introduces plot holes when you start to think about it), Queen Lumera's second death was even more drawn out than the first, and everything turning into the generic anime "villain who believes in strength as an individual and disdains bonds vs heroes who have the power of friendship" story for the final mission was lame. But there's little reason to dwell on those, the story was never all that good here. Like I've said, it's mostly standard Fire Emblem writing - anime/fantasy tropes, where you just hope the game gives you some characters you like.

And it does have a few good moments in that regard. Support-wise I did end up with a few notable ones I enjoyed: Yunaka and Seadall, Alear and Citrinne, Alear and Mauvier, just to name those that come to mind first. I was actually pretty disappointed there weren't paired endings for non-Alear characters just because I did want to see Yunaka and Seadall end up together after their support. Didn't care about any of the others, but those two I liked as a couple. I'd also say that, in general, the Firenese characters give a poor first impression of the game's characters. The other nations feel a bit less flat in their characters' personalities (though not all of them). I probably liked the Brodians the best - though they could've stood to tone down just how depressed and self-depreciating Alcryst is. Diamant, Citrinne, and Lapis felt like very relatable characters, and I quite liked Jade as well. Never really got see Amber's personality since I never used him, though (had too many lance-users already when he showed up). I also generally liked the Solmnians, and at least mostly liked Ivy from the Elusians (didn't use any of them besides her, so can't say too much about the rest).

All that said though, yeah, it doesn't hold a candle to Three Houses, and you could probably give other games the nod for better stories, too. For me personally though it does sort of fade into the same "decent, but nothing special; flawed, but not too badly so" category that almost all Fire Emblem stories end up in.

Just because it needs to be in the spoiler, one comment about the final fight: I liked the Dark Emblem idea, appropriate for the final battle, but the execution was lacking. All of the villains being nondescript spirits attached to standard enemies that just boost their stats is pretty weak.
I will say though, if Three Houses didn't exist, this might have an argument for being the best game in the series, just off how fun the Emblem system ends up being to play with. Having that extra layer of customization to the characters, both through who you put the Emblems on and what skills you have each character inherit, is pretty nice.

Though it does become just as overpowered as it seems. Turns out the game's difficulty curve (on hard) goes: fine in the early game, frustratingly difficult in the mid-game, hilariously easy in the end-game. By the final mission I was steamrolling things. Alear had been untouchable by most enemies for a while due to how fast/dodgy she was from the moment I put Lyn on her, but by that point Chloe (with Marth) was as well, and Yunaka (Corrin), Lapis (Leif), and Timerra (Eirika) were nearly so. Diamant (Ike) wasn't quite the immortal titan that he was in the mid-game, because his resistance just did not keep pace with enemy mages' magic increase, so I had to be careful how many of those I exposed him to even when he was engaged, but he was still one of my strongest units. Jade (Sigurd) and Louis (no emblem) were basically immune to physical attacks from most enemies (even the final boss could barely scratch them!), so as long I didn't let mages attack them first, they were good. And while my mages and other support units could be killed if I was careless with them, Citrinne and Ivy were still crazy good at killing most things safely. Citrinne especially, since she had Byleth, giving her +2 range when engaged, absolutely nutty magic, and enough speed to double anything that weren't swordmaster-tier fast. I haven't felt this powerful at the end of a Fire Emblem since Radiant Dawn, where I legitimately had one character max out all of his stats, and others max out several or most of them.

Still, I do find myself tempted to replay it, using different units and putting different Emblems on different characters, maybe trying normal difficulty to see how that goes by comparison. But probably not right away, I've got other games to get to first.

[Rising Phoenix]

Finally finished the game as I got a bit burnt on maddening difficulty. By the end I had made Alear, Boucheron, Diamant and Yunaka unkillable gods. Inherited pair up from corrin and the enemies just suicided on them. Louis unfortunately became too mage averse and was nearly unusable- a shame- particularly because he has the most interesting personality out of the Firenese lot.

I'd rate the game as follows:

Story: B standard FE and anime fair it's not bad, it's not good either. There were a few plot twists I didn't see coming Losing your emblems at chapter 11... that hit hard Intelligent systems. You give me nice toys and you take them away?! Rude! And zombie alear- the revival I knew it was coming, but the corrupted one? Didn't see that coming.
Characters: B+ I haven't explored the majority of the cast, but I can't say there were many that I found amazing...might be coz I used mostly firenese character's and they are not great- gym rats and tea enthusiasts. Yunaka easily tops the list, followed by Alear easily my second favorite protagonist after Shez.
World Building: B- It's there I guess. Nothing creative.
Art: B some of the fashion choices are interesting. A third of the cast looks like its ran away from the circus.
Music: A The game has some solid tracks. Solm in particularly Bops. Fates along with Echoes still have my favorite sound tracks though.
Gameplay: S+ Fantastic. Easily the most creative in the series and it is an absolute joy to see your builds come together.
Persona Enjoyment: S. I am fan of the series even though this is not the strongest entry in the franchise I still enjoyed my time here.
Overall: A. Not bad, there are better FEs games for sure, but there worse binding blade and shadow dragon I am looking at you.
----
They have just released three DLC emblems. Will play the game again... but for now my brain needs to rest.

[Rodin]

I rate the game quite a bit lower, personally. I've made it through one playthrough and tried to do a normal ironman (no rewinding) playthrough to see the differences and I'm already burnt out after Chapter 10. Normal difficulty is, as I feared, too easy.

The gameplay once you're on a map is quite good. I like how challenging it is on hard, despite some things I still don't like (see earlier rant). The lack of batallions and Weapon Skills hurts, making the overall gameplay a lateral move for me from 3 Houses. The design of the maps is a step above though - these are the maps I wished I had for 3 Houses, and the poor map design remains my biggest complaint with that game. I think Fates still keeps the crown for map design, but that's no slight on Engage.

But the rest of the game is very poorly put together. The story is insultingly bad for most of the game, improving only a bit near the end. Even then, it was pretty predictable. The characters are shallow, with only a handful of good supports. I can't stand Alear, who I think must have repeatedly fallen out of bed onto their head during their 1000 year slumber. The Somniel and explore segments feel soulless, because most characters have nothing of importance to say and going around 30 people after each chapter to try and find out if they have new dialogue is tiresome.

What really kills the game for me is the between battle prep. Promoting units feels bad because the game is incredibly stingy with Master Seals, only unlocking infinite purchase close to the end of the game (chapter 18 or 19?). Second sealing feels pointless because base classes have no skills, meaning that if you second seal a base class unit you're wasting 10 levels until they can get into the promoted class you actually want. This is to make way for the Inherited Skills system...which only lets you have two skills. Said skills are typically incredibly expensive for the worthwhile ones, which should allow you to save up your points and get the skills. Only the game robs you of all your emblems halfway through the game and doesn't give them back until you're closing in on the end of the game. Actually learning the skills is a chore as you have to bounce back and forth between the Arena and the Ring Chamber as you can't see what SP characters have outside of either battle or the Ring Chamber, and have to go to the Arena to purchase the bond level with a separate currency.

Smithing involves a separate gacha currency, getting it requires filling your farm yard with dogs (????) and paying money into the countries so you can grind it from skirmishes. Except if you do that too much, you don't have enough money without excessive additional grinding. That's without mentioning the Tower of Trials currency which is ludicrously grindy if you want to improve the Engage weapons.

There's also miscellaneous stuff, like all the stupid minigames in the Somniel and the lackluster Paralogues. The lack of characterization to the Emblem heroes, despite them being the big draw of the game. But you get the idea.

---------

I've just spent a lot of time ragging on the game, but I want to be clear:

Engage is about a 7 for me. It's good, but not great. I got a playthrough out of it, and if it were really bad I wouldn't have gotten that far. It sits about where Fates sits for me, and for much the same reasons. The gameplay is good, but there are deeply frustrating elements to the design that sap my enjoyment, especially on a second playthrough. If I could just engage (heh) with the gameplay without dealing with all the stuff in-between, I suspect I would enjoy it a lot more. And I probably will still revisit it at a later date if the DLC looks juicy enough.

[Razade]

Finally getting into the game now that I'm done with Metroid Prime and a few other titles. So far, enjoying the game but a few things really bug me. The first is the costumes. Holy crap are a lot of them garish and ugly. Second is the UI, which I'm finding particularly annoying. Show me clear paths for classes please, don't nest it behind a option box. In Chapter 8 and also feel like I'm picking up way too many people to really sit and focus on any one of them.

[Zevox]

Finally getting into the game now that I'm done with Metroid Prime and a few other titles. So far, enjoying the game but a few things really bug me. The first is the costumes. Holy crap are a lot of them garish and ugly. Second is the UI, which I'm finding particularly annoying. Show me clear paths for classes please, don't nest it behind a option box. In Chapter 8 and also feel like I'm picking up way too many people to really sit and focus on any one of them.
Eh, having played the full thing, I think most of the designs are fine, it's just that the few that aren't are really bad. And the fact that the main character is one of the worst examples of that does it no favors, since you're stuck looking at them plenty. Especially the male version - somehow those pants and the weird suspenders attaching his boots to his overcoat make everything worse, where the female version's skirt is at least relatively normal looking.

(On that note, I just started a second run after finishing Forspoken, picked the male version of Alear this time, and could only come up with one appropriate name for him: Bozo. Also, his voice is surprisingly effeminate. Nothing wrong with that mind you, but I find it kind jarring at times. Even Alfred's voice sounds more masculine.)

As to the UI, if you mean the menu layouts, I'm with you. Why is there no way to look at character stats besides going into inventory management? Why do I need to go to the convoy to check item stats rather than just the totals they modify my stats to? Why does Emblem ring management need to be its own section separate from the rest of your character management options? Definitely a lot of poor design choices there. In-battle though I think the UI is pretty well done.

As to the character quantity, yeah, we're back to the series drip-feeding a couple of new characters at you basically every chapter for most of the game again. That's another thing I miss about Three Houses' unusual format compared to the series norm, personally, character recruitment was so much nicer there. I've got a team I want to use planned out for my new run, but since I'm trying to use as many characters that I didn't last time as I can, a lot of them don't even show up until the mid-game, so I have to use earlier characters as filler for now... damn Boucheron being the only axe user for so long...

[Rising Phoenix]

Replaying the game as well on maddening and this run, unsurprisingly, is going a whole lot better then my first run... I have more money then I know what to do with.

Use Anna peeps she will solve your money problems and please turn her into a magic user of your choice.

My one complaint is that we need more master seals/second seals in the early game to allow the flexibility of the game to really shine. Hopefully they get added as a freebie down the line.

[Razade]

My one complaint is that we need more master seals/second seals in the early game to allow the flexibility of the game to really shine. Hopefully they get added as a freebie down the line.

This is my my other major complaint. I'm on Chapter 9 and I really want to do the Skirmishes but I sorta feel like if I do, I'm just wasting levels without any access to Seals.

[Zevox]

Replaying the game as well on maddening and this run, unsurprisingly, is going a whole lot better then my first run... I have more money then I know what to do with.

Use Anna peeps she will solve your money problems and please turn her into a magic user of your choice.

My one complaint is that we need more master seals/second seals in the early game to allow the flexibility of the game to really shine. Hopefully they get added as a freebie down the line.
I am using Anna as a Mage this time, though personally I haven't had her ability trigger that much yet. Maybe you're just further along than me though, I've only had her up and running for a few chapters, and just did 11 last night.

Seal availability is weird too, yeah. Especially with how many early game characters you probably want to class change if you intend to use them. Celine needs to be in a different class to up either her strength or magic growth to remain usable past the early game*, Anna wants to change into a magic class, Jean might want to change class just because he's an aptitude kid, Etie might need a class change to sword fighter or another higher speed growth class, Clanne wants to be in a physical class instead of mage if you want to use him long-term, and you might even want to try it with Alfred. Basically everyone but Framme, Chloe, Louis, and Yunaka who comes in pre-Brodia could benefit from a class change.

Except Boucheron, he's just kind of screwed unless he gets lucky - seriously, who's the genius who decided he should get 20% strength growth and 0% magic growth? Being an axe fighter is really his only option, nothing else helps those awful growths even close to enough. Dude's Rinkah 2.0.

*On that subject, my weirdest reclass for my new run: Celine as an Armor Knight/General. Like Anna, I'm only a few chapters into it, but seems promising so far.


This is my my other major complaint. I'm on Chapter 9 and I really want to do the Skirmishes but I sorta feel like if I do, I'm just wasting levels without any access to Seals.
Eh, the skirmishes aren't particularly fun, IMO. They all just throw you onto the map with a bunch of enemies who all rush you immediately, so you just turtle up in whatever defensible position you have and try to survive. That's only fun when it's a rare exception to your usual gameplay, at least for me.

[Razade]

Eh, the skirmishes aren't particularly fun, IMO. They all just throw you onto the map with a bunch of enemies who all rush you immediately, so you just turtle up in whatever defensible position you have and try to survive. That's only fun when it's a rare exception to your usual gameplay, at least for me.

I like low/no stake combat and the grind.

[Zevox]

I like low/no stake combat and the grind.
Fair enough. That's not for me, though.

I'm getting into the mid-game of my run now, and oof, it's worse the second time around. I'm coming to really hate them for throwing so many promoted enemies into the mix so early. Even using several of the pre-promotes that join you at this point this time, they're still ridiculous in just how many of them there are and how strong they are compared to other enemies. If the game would let me turn the difficulty back up later, I'd gladly turn it down to normal for these chapters. But since for some reason they'll only let you turn the difficulty down, never up (seriously, the hell is with that?), I'm avoiding that for now, because I don't want the late-game to be easier than I already found it the first time.

[Rising Phoenix]

Fair enough. That's not for me, though.

I'm getting into the mid-game of my run now, and oof, it's worse the second time around. I'm coming to really hate them for throwing so many promoted enemies into the mix so early. Even using several of the pre-promotes that join you at this point this time, they're still ridiculous in just how many of them there are and how strong they are compared to other enemies. If the game would let me turn the difficulty back up later, I'd gladly turn it down to normal for these chapters. But since for some reason they'll only let you turn the difficulty down, never up (seriously, the hell is with that?), I'm avoiding that for now, because I don't want the late-game to be easier than I already found it the first time.


I am actually finding the game to be much easier now that I know what I am doing. I can comfortably tank bosses and go after genuine clean ups. Even on Sigurd's paralogue I killed basically everything (there's one healer way back with which I didn't bother).

Oh and hot tip of chapter 17:

Use engaged Corrin on Zephia...she won't be able to move afterwards which completely gimps her

The problem I am honestly having is that I don't have enough metal to forge. Once you get Anna rolling you can easily get an extra 2-4 k gold per chapter from her passive. More if you feed her everything but its a bad idea to do that.

[Zevox]

I am actually finding the game to be much easier now that I know what I am doing. I can comfortably tank bosses and go after genuine clean ups. Even on Sigurd's paralogue I killed basically everything (there's one healer way back with which I didn't bother).
I'm getting some of that too - certainly up through chapter 11 - but when the mid-game hits in chapter 12+ and enemies are just inflating their stats faster than I am, especially on the promoted ones that rapidly become a decent chunk of the enemy force, it's extremely frustrating and makes playing those chapters unpleasant. And I don't want to just promote all of my units ASAP because waiting until they hit level 20 (total, for reclasses) worked out perfectly the first time for avoiding needing to use second seals to just level reset, as my army was all hitting promoted 20 during the final chapter.


The problem I am honestly having is that I don't have enough metal to forge. Once you get Anna rolling you can easily get an extra 2-4 k gold per chapter from her passive. More if you feed her everything but its a bad idea to do that.
:smallconfused: That would require Anna to be killing 4-8 enemies per map if her skill triggered 100% of the time, which it very much doesn't. With the actual trigger rate of luck%, you're either getting very lucky, or feeding her most of the maps. I've still only gotten it a few times total myself, even though I sometimes go out of my way to give her extra kills in the hopes of triggering it. I feel like I can only hope she'll eventually average generating 1k per map, if promotion pumps her luck stat enough.

[Rising Phoenix]

I'm getting some of that too - certainly up through chapter 11 - but when the mid-game hits in chapter 12+ and enemies are just inflating their stats faster than I am, especially on the promoted ones that rapidly become a decent chunk of the enemy force, it's extremely frustrating and makes playing those chapters unpleasant. And I don't want to just promote all of my units ASAP because waiting until they hit level 20 (total, for reclasses) worked out perfectly the first time for avoiding needing to use second seals to just level reset, as my army was all hitting promoted 20 during the final chapter.


:smallconfused: That would require Anna to be killing 4-8 enemies per map if her skill triggered 100% of the time, which it very much doesn't. With the actual trigger rate of luck%, you're either getting very lucky, or feeding her most of the maps. I've still only gotten it a few times total myself, even though I sometimes go out of my way to give her extra kills in the hopes of triggering it. I feel like I can only hope she'll eventually average generating 1k per map, if promotion pumps her luck stat enough.

There is zero reason to stay pre-promote as you will not get reduced exp if you do promote. You will also gain increased stat gains once you do. TLDR promote ASAP.

My Ana had 30 Luck by chapter 11. If you have the DLC you can get the skill HP and Luck +6 from her for a measly 600 SP. You can also give her luck tonic as well. Towards mid game were your easily facing off 30-50 enemy units feeding her around 10 kills per map is not unreasonable. Some of the paralogue's have a lot/infinite reinforcements. If you can farm these you can get infinite gold in theory as she can proc it even of void curse enemies.

[Razade]

Fair enough. That's not for me, though.

Ok? I didn't say you should? I'm not really sure what we're discussing here? I got they weren't for you when you said they weren't for you the first time.

[Zevox]

There is zero reason to stay pre-promote as you will not get reduced exp if you do promote. You will also gain increased stat gains once you do. TLDR promote ASAP.
The growth rate increases from promoting are too small to bear consideration in most cases - most just go up by 5% in a few stats from the unpromoted class. Sometimes more if you're not doing the obvious promotion route, but then it usually also loses a bit elsewhere.

And I gave my reason not to promote immediately. If I do, I'll need second seals at about the time I'm normally hitting promoted level 10, or else my characters will stop leveling (aside from Seadall and my Thief). That's a lot of money I can just not need to spend by letting characters go to 20 unpromoted, resulting in them hitting the level cap at about the time the game ends anyway, based on my first run. Which really makes it feel like that's what was expected by the developers.

(Or we could've just not had this silly 20 level cap that resets when you promote or change classes thing at all, like Three Houses, in which case there wouldn't be an issue. It's really something how many little things Three Houses changed about the series' gameplay that turned out to be for the better, IMO.)


My Ana had 30 Luck by chapter 11. If you have the DLC you can get the skill HP and Luck +6 from her for a measly 600 SP. You can also give her luck tonic as well. Towards mid game were your easily facing off 30-50 enemy units feeding her around 10 kills per map is not unreasonable. Some of the paralogue's have a lot/infinite reinforcements. If you can farm these you can get infinite gold in theory as she can proc it even of void curse enemies.
I don't have the DLC, so that's not a thing I can do (though now that I've gotten Byleth I can given his Luck+ to her). Luck tonic I didn't think of admittedly, I tend to just ignore those one-time consumables. That number of enemies strikes me as quite high though; 30, sure, I can see that for larger chapters in the mid-game, but 50? Maybe in some paralogues or late-game maps where they throw tons of reinforcements at you, but not in the mid-game chapters. Maybe that's a difference between hard and maddening.

For reference, my Anna, at effective level 20 (5 Axe Fighter -> 15 Mage) and without Byleth's skill yet, has 11 luck. At chapter 16. That'll go up when I promote her and give her Byleth's skill, but still.
Edit: Or it would go up when I promote, if I weren't locked out of promoted classes other than Mage Knight until later chapters... damn it, I forgot about that... so I'm just getting Byleth's Luck+6. :smallfrown:

[Razade]

At Chapter 16 and so far...I'm not having as much fun as I had with Three Houses. Not that I'm not having no fun but I don't feel any real connection to the characters and I don't feel like my investment in units is actually all that important. Most of them have Lord classes and those seem just flat better than any other, am I wrong here? Three Houses just felt like I was actually building characters. The Emblems seem to be the most important thing here, which I get is the central mechanic but it really makes the main people...flat as far as units go. Might honestly do a run of Three Houses after this.

[Rising Phoenix]

At Chapter 16 and so far...I'm not having as much fun as I had with Three Houses. Not that I'm not having no fun but I don't feel any real connection to the characters and I don't feel like my investment in units is actually all that important. Most of them have Lord classes and those seem just flat better than any other, am I wrong here? Three Houses just felt like I was actually building characters. The Emblems seem to be the most important thing here, which I get is the central mechanic but it really makes the main people...flat as far as units go. Might honestly do a run of Three Houses after this.

From what I am reading some of the lords, even alear are better of reclassed. Of course if you are playing on hard it's not going to show us much. With the exception of Alcryst, Timera, Hortensia and Ivy all the other lords can/should be reclassed if you wish. Alfred in particular appears to be mediocre at best even if reclassed to Paladin. I've heard that Draco Knight Alear is insane.

The emblems are good, but you still need to be clever about how you use them.

As for the characters. Yeah they are not the best. Citrine is another stand out for me. Chloe, Alcryst and Celine have decent writting as does Diamant. But again they are no Sylvain, Felix, Dorothea etc...

[Zevox]

At Chapter 16 and so far...I'm not having as much fun as I had with Three Houses. Not that I'm not having no fun but I don't feel any real connection to the characters and I don't feel like my investment in units is actually all that important. Most of them have Lord classes and those seem just flat better than any other, am I wrong here? Three Houses just felt like I was actually building characters. The Emblems seem to be the most important thing here, which I get is the central mechanic but it really makes the main people...flat as far as units go. Might honestly do a run of Three Houses after this.
I get that. While Engage is certainly a good, fun game in its own right, coming out after Three Houses raised the series' bar, it definitely falls short of that in a lot of ways, chief among them the writing. There's individual characters that I like better than most, but for every Citrinne or Yunaka you have three that are pretty meh - or worse, people like Framme or Hortensia who are actively annoying. And even the best in this game don't measure up to Three Houses' characters.

That said, I think your assessment of the nobles is quite off. In my experience, those go:

Alfred - Is not good in his default class unless you get lucky growths. I tried to use him in both of my runs - even tried to prop him up with Lyn for a while in my second - and wound up benching him both times. Maybe a class change can save him, but I would not try his default class again.

Celine - is a fine early game mage, but needs to class change long-term, because her strength and magic growths in her default class are too low. I made mine an Armored Knight/General in my second run, and that's gone well, despite some very weird luck on level-ups.*

Diamant - does well in his default class line, especially if given Ike, but not necessarily better than he could do in another physical class. Sol's a nice skill, but he doesn't trigger it often.

Alcryst - can do well in his default class, mostly because Luna helps offset his biggest weakness, his lacking strength. I could see a class change that just fixes that strength issue working out for him though.

Ivy & Hortensia - they get to be flying mages. Yeah, hard to see why you'd class change them from that.

Timerra - her Sandstorm ability is amazing, but like Luna on Alcryst it's also making up for her biggest flaw, lacking strength, so you might prefer to just change her to a class that helps with that instead.

Fogado - eh, he's good for most of the game, but has a similar problem to Celine where his strength and magic growth in his default class are both not great. He just doesn't fall far enough behind that you consider benching him until almost the end, so it kind of works out. I expect a class change to help would be good for him though.

*Aside: that weird luck being that she's gotten somewhat less defense than her growth rate would mean she should, while for some reason, she has constantly gained build. Seriously, base build stat for a General is 10; my Celine has a build of 18 (at ~ level 30). And that's before the bonus she gets for having Sigurd equipped. It doesn't matter at all, it's not like she doubles anything that isn't another General, but she just keeps gaining it so much more than her 15% growth rate should.

Other random notes/thoughts from my current run, while I'm posting:
- The annoying mid-game difficulty spike dips down after chapter 17, I'd say. Still, the period from chapter 12-17 to me is pretty unpleasant because of that, at least on hard. I guess I need to try normal sometime, but I fear the rest of the game will be too easy on that difficulty.
- Corrin on Alear is kind of fun - lets you pick between any of the terrain effects Dragon Vein can produce. But I think I personally prefer a more direct combat Emblem, like Lyn from my first run, for Alear. Just like my main character in more of a lead-the-charge role rather than a support one. Has helped me appreciate non-fog effects from Corrin though, especially fire.
- Most of the characters I've tried using that I didn't the first time are working out. Alfred's the only one I've had to bench. Replaced him with Goldmary, who I changed into a Great Knight because I saw her growth rates looked like an armored unit's, and that's been effective (although I'm not a fan of her character... reminds me of Camilla).
-- Zelkov and Pandreo have been kind of mediocre. Not sure if that's luck or just how they are. Good enough to keep using, unlike Alfred, though.
-- I tried making Yunaka an Archer/Sniper, and it has not worked out as well as I'd hoped. She's avoiding being benched, but only just. Shockingly, it hit her speed hard, and despite her high growth rate I've had to have her inherit Speed+ from Lyn to prop it up. And the extra strength growth has only helped her there so much. I might wanna just leave her as a thief in any future runs.
--- I did give her Byleth though, and quite like that. Failnaught is great, and instruct/dance giving speed+5 is sick. Byleth on a covert unit is a thumbs up from me.
-- Anna has not been as strong as I'd expected, honestly. I think part of it is bad luck on level-ups, mine does have a statistically sub-par speed for her level, but still, I was expecting her to eclipse Citrinne from my first run, and she really isn't. Factoring in that I haven't given Anna an Emblem where I did give Citrinne Byleth, they're probably about on par with each other. Which is still good, mind you, but from her growths, I was expecting better.
-- I randomly got a Claude S bond ring, which gives the ability Wind God: +1 range with bows when at full health. Slapped it on my bow knight Etie, and it's kind of nuts. Getting to be a Three Houses archer in a game where no one else does is quite powerful.

[Rodin]

When it comes to character building, I feel like the way the classes are set up is to blame.

Both Awakening and Fates rewarded going through the base and the advanced classes. Reclassing into another first tier class got you an immediate skill. Hitting level 10 in the Base class netted you another, and allowed you to promote. The advanced classes had skills at level 5 and 15, but the level 15 skill wasn't always worth sticking around for.

With 5 skill slots (and inherited skills from parents) you were constantly mapping where you wanted to take characters. Even if a character started as their ideal class it was often better to detour through a couple of secondary classes and then come back to that class when you were ready to settle in. You were also balancing that consideration with the characters stat growths - is it worth taking a mage through a non-mage line to pick up a useful skill? Is it worth taking a parent through a horribly non-optimal line in order to get a skill that would be difficult (or impossible) to acquire for the child?

Engage strips all of that out and puts it on the Emblems. Base classes have no skills and serve no purpose other than giving the requirement to promote. Advanced classes only give one skill, and you don't get to keep that skill if you reclass.

The result is that you decide what class each character is going to be the instant you get them. You change to a different class line at most once, and after you promote there's no benefit to swapping to another class unless your stats for your chosen class prove unsatisfactory.
-------

My overall experience was that I was very disengaged from character planning, which is a large part of what drew me to the games in the first place. If you needed a skill, you saved SP and got it from an Emblem. Many of those Emblems are taken away from you halfway through the game and not given back to you until much later, limiting the options further. And even at that, the inherited skills were limited to two.

I think the idea was that you would use the Emblems themselves for the cool skills without inheriting them, and that swapping them freely would provide versatility. In practice, I found it robbed units of their individuality. There were a few standouts with weird growths (Anna being a prime example) but there was little distinction between most of the non-noble characters. There was no reason to ever use Framme if Jean is available.

[Zevox]

When it comes to character building, I feel like the way the classes are set up is to blame.

Both Awakening and Fates rewarded going through the base and the advanced classes. Reclassing into another first tier class got you an immediate skill. Hitting level 10 in the Base class netted you another, and allowed you to promote. The advanced classes had skills at level 5 and 15, but the level 15 skill wasn't always worth sticking around for.

With 5 skill slots (and inherited skills from parents) you were constantly mapping where you wanted to take characters. Even if a character started as their ideal class it was often better to detour through a couple of secondary classes and then come back to that class when you were ready to settle in. You were also balancing that consideration with the characters stat growths - is it worth taking a mage through a non-mage line to pick up a useful skill? Is it worth taking a parent through a horribly non-optimal line in order to get a skill that would be difficult (or impossible) to acquire for the child?

Engage strips all of that out and puts it on the Emblems. Base classes have no skills and serve no purpose other than giving the requirement to promote. Advanced classes only give one skill, and you don't get to keep that skill if you reclass.

The result is that you decide what class each character is going to be the instant you get them. You change to a different class line at most once, and after you promote there's no benefit to swapping to another class unless your stats for your chosen class prove unsatisfactory.
-------

My overall experience was that I was very disengaged from character planning, which is a large part of what drew me to the games in the first place. If you needed a skill, you saved SP and got it from an Emblem. Many of those Emblems are taken away from you halfway through the game and not given back to you until much later, limiting the options further. And even at that, the inherited skills were limited to two.

I think the idea was that you would use the Emblems themselves for the cool skills without inheriting them, and that swapping them freely would provide versatility. In practice, I found it robbed units of their individuality. There were a few standouts with weird growths (Anna being a prime example) but there was little distinction between most of the non-noble characters. There was no reason to ever use Framme if Jean is available.
Personally, that's an area where I prefer Engage to Awakening/Fates. Changing character classes repeatedly for the sake of skills is not something I ever wanted to do - it just feels so weird and artificial. I want to be able to change the character's class, yes, but I want to decide "this time I want Merrin to be a Wyvern Rider," put her in Wyvern Rider, and be that for the whole game (she makes a very good one, btw). Being able to inherit skills from the Emblems, and decide which combination of Emblem skills and actual Emblem I want on each character works much better for me. It feels like I'm customizing my abilities rather than being schizophrenic about what class my character actually is for most of the game. Though the numbers on how much SP some abilities cost, or how quickly you gain them, could stand to be adjusted.

And the characters are still plenty individualized, each has their own different stat growth rates which help define where they'll excel and where they won't. Though admittedly there's some real head-scratcher decisions among some of those growth rates, like very few of the physical characters having any magic growth rate to speak of so there's few good uses for the game's magic weapons, or Clanne having a 10% magic growth and 35% strength growth despite starting as a mage.

[Zevox]

Wrapped up my second run. Just some thoughts to share afterward.

A repeat viewing really doesn't do anything for the story - if anything, it gets worse, even if only because the twists really aren't the sort that bring much to the story beyond simply surprising you. Can't say that the different characters I tried revealed many new favorites either - I rather liked Pandreo's supports I'd say, but everyone else, eh.

I also couldn't help but notice that my interest in playing the game really waned in the last handful of chapters. I get the impression that I have more fun planning out and building up a team in this game than in actually playing out the stages, so once the team was pretty much endgame-ready, my enjoyment started to decline. Which isn't great. Combined with the story, it really makes me feel like the next time I have an itch to play Fire Emblem, I'd be much better off doing another run of Three Houses.

There are a handful of things that this game does do that I'd say are better than Three Houses, though, and which I hope carry over to future games:
- Voiced protagonist. I said this with Three Hopes too, but it bears repeating: it helps so much to have this. Even if Alear story is so much worse than Byleth, they feel so much more like an actual character. This is probably my biggest criticism of Three Houses.
- Animations. Damn, but fights look cool in this game. Dodging animations especially, and counter-attacks right after dodges, are so well-done - I love how some of them are visually more like a parry than a dodge, depending on the character. Critical hits look better than they have since the GBA days, too.
- Having there be a full-size version of each stage's map so that you can have the background during fights match the stage around you fully is a great touch that the series is long overdue for.
- The Emblems themselves are a cool concept and fun to play with, so I wouldn't be opposed to them recurring (though not every game, please). Don't return to this world when doing so though, it's really not worth it.
- Some of the things they have in the Somniel that weren't in the Monastery are nice. The workout and Wyvern Riding mini-games, or the support-building options they added in an update. I'd be happy to see those type of things return.

In case anyone would be interested, a few of the oddball character/class combos I tried in this run and how they worked out:
Celine as a Sword General (Sigurd) - I've mentioned this a few times, but this combo did work out pretty well. I'd say Celine was never as durable a tank as Louis or Jade were on my first run, but she was plenty good enough to hold her own anyway. And with how much build she gained I probably should've made her a lance or axe General instead of sword, but I wanted to stick with that after my initial choice. Sadly though, since her innate weapon is only tomes, she does not get to use the S rank swords at the end of the game.

Yuanaka as an Archer/Sniper (Byleth) - Unimpressive. Turns out that when you go from Thief to Archer, you lose a lot of speed, and I do mean a lot. Without some lucky level-ups, she needed serious help to be salvaged - which I gave her in the form of Speedtaker and Speed+ from Lyn as her skills. That got her to usability, but if it weren't for Byleth, she'd have still been inferior to my Bow Knight Etie. Byleth on a Sniper/covert unit in general I can definitely recommend though: rally speed, Goddess Dance gives +5 speed, and Failnaught as a powerful range 2-3 bow with effective: dragon, all great stuff.

Goldmary as a Great Knight (Ike) - As good as Louis in raw defense, and notably better than him in resistance (although she still doesn't get a ton of that, mind you), she might be the best armored unit in the game. She is notably lower strength than Louis or Jade though, so she did less killing for me than them, but very little could threaten her.

Merrin as a Sword & Lance Wyvern Knight (Marth) - Very well-rounded and strong. Even when she wasn't using her Lucina-engraved weapon enemies often had next to no chance to hit her, and she did plenty of damage even using mostly swords. She's also the rare physical character with enough magic to use a Levin Sword. Basically, she was like a stronger version of Griffon Knight Chloe from my first run, who was already very good. Possibly my most effective reclass here.

Kagetsu as a Warrior (Eirika) - Very strong by the end, but kind of mediocre at first, honestly (if still leagues better than Boucheron). He's quite good at crits though, so giving him a Killing Axe helped carry him through to the point where he became a beast.

Anna as a Mage Knight - Not bad, but so much less impressive than I'd expected. By the end she was eclipsed by Pandreo (switched to Sage so he could use the S-rank tome) in every way. With her growths I'd figured she was guaranteed to be the game's best mage, but I guess not. Even with Luck+ from Byleth, never really got the point of getting me all that much extra gold, either - it just wasn't consistent.

[Razade]

Finished my first play through. The writing got decent at the end, why oh why did they not have that writing from the start? Still feel like Three Houses is the stronger of the two games both with cast, general class layouts and other content, but it was a fun game that really only dragged by the end when it was clear there was no real reason to grind. Beat Sombron in two turns on the first map and another 2 turns on the second which was a real shame. Was expecting something a lot more difficult, maybe I'll crank the difficulty up when the other DLC Emblems come out but I fear that'll just be stat bloat.

I also feel like they overcorrected on enemy archers in this game. Flying in Three Houses was OP but I never felt like I could send any of my flying units into the thick of things in Engage with how soft they all were and how many gosh-darned enemies with bows there were. There also seemed like a ton of enemies with ranged weapons in general.

The maps overall were really fun, probably the only thing I felt they did better with in this game. Good variety and a few of the last maps were interesting and engaging. The one with the avalanches was a blast even if a little frustrating.

The Emblem system was interesting up until it wasn't and boy did that wall hit quickly. The price for unlocking inherited skills is absurd and only to inflate the post-game stuff and I have 0 interest in that. I changed emblems around a lot but I honestly feel like that was the wrong choice. I also felt like a few of the Emblems were just not that great? The Twins Emblem especially felt...not very good? What was I missing there?

I'd give the game a 7/10 overall. Not enough to make me disown the series, it's only my second game of it, but certainly enough to make me see what the next installment is going to look like. On to Tactics Ogre until the Suikoden remakes land.

[Zevox]

Finished my first play through. The writing got decent at the end, why oh why did they not have that writing from the start?
Really? I felt much the opposite, personally.
The twist with Alear's death, return as a Corrupted, and then resurrection as an Emblem was surprising, but just that, nothing more. For all practical purposes all it amounted to was an excuse to add the Engage+ mechanic to the game, which is pretty overpowered.

Trying to humanize Zephia and Griss on their literal deathbeds, only a chapter after Zephia murdered Marni, a child, in cold blood for turning on her, was a terrible idea. The best those two could hope for was "villains you love to hate" status, and while they weren't exactly there, trying to go the complete opposite direction with them at the last minute was an awful call.

The time-travel chapter was just dumb and introduces plot holes, all for the sake of giving you a glimpse at what Alear was like a thousand years ago, when you could pretty much figure that out on your own.

Lumera's second death was even more drawn out and melodramatic than the first. It could maybe have had a point if Alear had reacted more like they should have to her first death, a bit detached because they don't really know her and only have her word that she's their mother, but had a much stronger reaction the second time after developing all these stronger relationships with people who knew her better and feeling that lack of a parental connection, but that's not how they did it.

And the final chapter stuff with Sombron was just lame. They turned him into a generic anime villain that believes in individual strength and disdains working with others, while also giving him that Emblem he cared about for some reason, as if they also wanted to make him sympathetic in some way. It did not land with me at all, it just made him an even weaker villain than he was to begin with IMO.


The Emblem system was interesting up until it wasn't and boy did that wall hit quickly. The price for unlocking inherited skills is absurd and only to inflate the post-game stuff and I have 0 interest in that. I changed emblems around a lot but I honestly feel like that was the wrong choice. I also felt like a few of the Emblems were just not that great? The Twins Emblem especially felt...not very good? What was I missing there?
There's definitely a couple of Emblems that are on the weaker side, though Eirika and Ephraim is not one of them. Their Emblem is kind of a generalist one: it raises your damage and reduces incoming damage when in Eirika mode, raises your damage and gives you free healing in Ephraim mode, and does all of that when engaged. Eirika mode's ability that gives you bonus damage based on enemy defense is particularly great, helps lower-damage characters significantly in dealing with higher-defense opponents, while higher-damage characters can take more advantage of Ephraim mode's heal-on-hit effect. Its final engage weapon having Effective: Corrupted makes it great against most enemies during main story missions, too.

In general, I'd rank the Emblems (not counting DLC since I don't have it) like so:

The Best: Lyn and Ike.
Strong: Marth, Eirika, Corrin, Byleth.
Good: Celica, Sigurd, Leif, Roy.
Situational: Micaiah.
Meh: Lucina.

Lyn and Ike I imagine need little explanation. Lyn basically gets all the best stuff, and Ike makes anyone with decent defense into an amazing tank.

Marth gets a good engage attack, gives you bonus attacks during normal attacks, and makes anyone better at dodging, which a lot of characters want to be good at in this game. Eirika I explained above. Corrin and Byleth are more depedent on what you put them on, but on the right units, they're excellent - Corrin probably most wants to be on Covert or Mystical unit (or Dragon, since then you get access to all of the Dragon Veins), but can work pretty well on almost anyone due to how good her debuff and immobilizing abilities are. Byleth I've found excellent on a mystical unit (+2 range when engaged!) and strong on a Covert one (Failnaught is a great weapon, and it means rally and Dance give +5 speed), and I could see him being good on select other units, but you do have watch out for traps like putting him on a Backup unit that has no magic and thus won't get any use out of Blutgang. Regardless of who he's on though, Goddess Dance is amazing and OP.

The "good" tier Emblems are solid, but nothing crazy compared to their fellows. Celica looks amazing in the early game because Warp Ragnarok does so much damage, but it falls off when you get her back in the late-game, and her better ability ends up being Echo, and maybe her Effective: Corrupted tome. But there's few Emblems for mages, so she has that niche at least. Sigurd's mobility boost and Engage special are pretty good, but a bit too situational for me to rate him higher. Leif grants Build+, which can make a big difference on some characters, and Quadruple Hit can be a pretty strong engage attack, but he is held back by relatively weak engage weapons. And Roy wouldn't be very good except for the fact that he gives you Level+5 upon engaging, so turning him on just makes you stronger all around, and it's hard to complain about that. Also Hold Out's pretty nice. I have found he in particular is typically an afterthought for me, as in both runs I found I'd rather give my front-liners all of the other Emblems that go well on them over him, so thus far I've wound up throwing him on Alcryst (in his default class) and Jean (as a Martial Master).

Micaiah and Lucina are the less impressive ones, IMO. Micaiah's best thing is turning staffs into an AoE effect, which can be great, but is very situational. The range bonus on staffs when engaged is nice, but since Physic exists, not really a huge buff most of the time outside of the early game. Great Sacrifice is also strong in theory, but I found it rarely necessary - usually when I'm using it it's more because I know it'll give her user a lot of xp and the engage is about to expire. And Lucina, well, her letting a character do backup attacks from a distance is nice, but unreliable and doesn't actually add that much damage most of the time; and her engage attack requires you to have a swarm of friendly units near the target, and even then ends up generally less impressive than most engage attacks. At least she has some fairly good engage weapons? Though it is really sad to Falchion doesn't get to be effective on most Dragons in the story, since for some stupid reason they decided that "Dragon" and "Fell Dragon" needed to be different categories, and Falchion only gets Effective: Dragon, not Fell Dragon. (As does the Dragonslayer, stupidly enough, but I guess that's another subject.)

[Razade]

Really? I felt much the opposite, personally.
The twist with Alear's death, return as a Corrupted, and then resurrection as an Emblem was surprising, but just that, nothing more. For all practical purposes all it amounted to was an excuse to add the Engage+ mechanic to the game, which is pretty overpowered.

This was probably the one that I didn't think was all that interesting honestly. It just felt like repeating Byleth coming back and it came way way too late for it to feel impactful or meaningful. Alear was a totally hohum main character both in practice and in relation to everyone else. Everyone instantly falling in love with him from the onset save the four baddies and the main baddie got really annoying.


Trying to humanize Zephia and Griss on their literal deathbeds, only a chapter after Zephia murdered Marni, a child, in cold blood for turning on her, was a terrible idea. The best those two could hope for was "villains you love to hate" status, and while they weren't exactly there, trying to go the complete opposite direction with them at the last minute was an awful call.

This is one of the ones I felt like if they'd introduced it earlier and actually stuck with it, the pay off would have been good. Instead of just pulling it out the end, making the scenery chewing baddies actually have motivations other than TEH EVILZ would have been a big improvement on the early game.




Lumera's second death was even more drawn out and melodramatic than the first. It could maybe have had a point if Alear had reacted more like they should have to her first death, a bit detached because they don't really know her and only have her word that she's their mother, but had a much stronger reaction the second time after developing all these stronger relationships with people who knew her better and feeling that lack of a parental connection, but that's not how they did it.

It might just be because I've lost a parent, but both times hit hard for me.



And the final chapter stuff with Sombron was just lame. They turned him into a generic anime villain that believes in individual strength and disdains working with others, while also giving him that Emblem he cared about for some reason, as if they also wanted to make him sympathetic in some way. It did not land with me at all, it just made him an even weaker villain than he was to begin with IMO.

IDK what game you were playing but FE:Engage is a lame generic anime game. Giving it the lame anime villain it deserved was good. I'd have liked more mentions of the Emblem of Foundations before this, instead of just introduced as an excuse to have the Villain Emblems that didn't even look like the villains themselves for the final fight. Sombron wasn't a particularly strong villain from the start. We don't know his motivations until the very end and if they'd given us anything to go off of from the start he'd have been better for it. At least they gave him some motivation beyond "I'm a giant black cobra dragon, of course I'm evil".


There's definitely a couple of Emblems that are on the weaker side, though Eirika and Ephraim is not one of them. Their Emblem is kind of a generalist one: it raises your damage and reduces incoming damage when in Eirika mode, raises your damage and gives you free healing in Ephraim mode, and does all of that when engaged. Eirika mode's ability that gives you bonus damage based on enemy defense is particularly great, helps lower-damage characters significantly in dealing with higher-defense opponents, while higher-damage characters can take more advantage of Ephraim mode's heal-on-hit effect. Its final engage weapon having Effective: Corrupted makes it great against most enemies during main story missions, too.

Maybe I just didn't invest/really seem to notice this. I was basically oneshotting everything up to the point I got them so the extra damage really wasn't noticeable and I rarely switched between the two which was probably my mistake.


In general, I'd rank the Emblems (not counting DLC since I don't have it) like so:

The Best: Lyn and Ike.
Strong: Marth, Eirika, Corrin, Byleth.
Good: Celica, Sigurd, Leif, Roy.
Situational: Micaiah.
Meh: Lucina.

I generally agree with this. Lucina felt like a weird one though I had her on Diamante for a long time and he was a beast. The DLC Emblems are all pretty great from what I could see and you don't lose them when you lose the others either.

Tiki is hideously OP on the MC because her stuff synergies with the Dragon stuff in the same way Corrin does and she has a skill that boosts your level up upgrades and it comes pretty cheap. I put it on a few people and they were absurd by the end.

Hector makes any tank tankier and lets you follow up as long as you're attacked so just...more tank goodness.

The Three Houses one gives you a ton of weapon proficencies, they give you combat arts in a game where they don't exist so they're really great in general, a good number of weapons. They're good on front line folks. Their randomization makes them a little tricky but I never felt that it impacted much.

Camilla makes non-flying characters have the same movement as a flyer. I put her on my healer and she carried me without needing Micaiah with just how easy it was moving around the map. She also gets a magic axe and tome so high magic is good with her.

And apparently the last wave is coming out in 4 days so....my second playthru may be sooner than I expected. I feel like my second game will go better now that I know more of what I'm doing with emblems and how each character is when you get them.

Soren is obviously another mage one and I found he was better than Celica. He gives you a wide ranged attack which can soften up bosses in the same way Lyn can but just not as much or nearly as far and his Anima Focus and Flare are nice debuffs on enemies.

[Zevox]

This is one of the ones I felt like if they'd introduced it earlier and actually stuck with it, the pay off would have been good. Instead of just pulling it out the end, making the scenery chewing baddies actually have motivations other than TEH EVILZ would have been a big improvement on the early game.
Sure, if they had tried to make the villains have more to them than just being generic evil villains from the get-go, that would have been better, absolutely. But they didn't, and trying to tack that on on their literal deathbeds after an entire game of them just being generic evil villains really does not work, IMO.


IDK what game you were playing but FE:Engage is a lame generic anime game. Giving it the lame anime villain it deserved was good. I'd have liked more mentions of the Emblem of Foundations before this, instead of just introduced as an excuse to have the Villain Emblems that didn't even look like the villains themselves for the final fight. Sombron wasn't a particularly strong villain from the start. We don't know his motivations until the very end and if they'd given us anything to go off of from the start he'd have been better for it. At least they gave him some motivation beyond "I'm a giant black cobra dragon, of course I'm evil".
Between the two options of "evil Dragon that is just evil," and "generic anime villain that believes in individual strength and disdains working with others," I'll personally take the first one. It's bland, it's never going to be anything special, but it works better at a basic level, IMO. And suddenly switching from one to the other at the last minute is definitely not a good way to go.


I generally agree with this. Lucina felt like a weird one though I had her on Diamante for a long time and he was a beast.
Diamant is pretty good for most of the game, yeah. I had him with Ike in my first run, and he was easily one of my top 2 characters throughout the mid and early late game, only starting to fall off a bit compared to others very late, but still remaining quite good then.


Tiki is hideously OP on the MC because her stuff synergies with the Dragon stuff in the same way Corrin does and she has a skill that boosts your level up upgrades and it comes pretty cheap. I put it on a few people and they were absurd by the end.
Yeah, I've looked up what some of the DLC Emblems do, and Tiki in particular does look blatantly overpowered. Between increasing growth rates, being able to grant your characters an extra life bar, and plenty of other stuff on her list also looking pretty strong, I imagine she'd be at least up there with Lyn and Ike, if not even more powerful.


And apparently the last wave is coming out in 4 days so....my second playthru may be sooner than I expected. I feel like my second game will go better now that I know more of what I'm doing with emblems and how each character is when you get them.
Third, not last. The last wave is the additional story stuff they call the "Fell Xenologues." And yeah, for the most part, a second run does become easier because of that. Though playing on hard, I still hated the mid-game from about chapter 12-17 - the huge, sudden difficulty spike there just sucks the fun out of it.

[Razade]

Sure, if they had tried to make the villains have more to them than just being generic evil villains from the get-go, that would have been better, absolutely. But they didn't, and trying to tack that on on their literal deathbeds after an entire game of them just being generic evil villains really does not work, IMO.

[spoiler]Which is why I said why was this not the way it was from the start.[/spoiler[



Third, not last. The last wave is the additional story stuff they call the "Fell Xenologues." And yeah, for the most part, a second run does become easier because of that. Though playing on hard, I still hated the mid-game from about chapter 12-17 - the huge, sudden difficulty spike there just sucks the fun out of it.

It's the last of the DLC Emblems, which I thought would be clear from the context of discussing the DLC Emblems. Fell Xenologues is a stand alone story.

[Zevox]

[spoiler]Which is why I said why was this not the way it was from the start.[/spoiler[
To be clear, I don't think that the specific motivations they gave them in that scene would make the game better had they been present earlier, I was agreeing only with the general idea that trying to make them more than just evil earlier would be better.


It's the last of the DLC Emblems, which I thought would be clear from the context of discussing the DLC Emblems. Fell Xenologues is a stand alone story.
Eh, I wasn't thinking of those as separate because it's all part of the same DLC pass that's only sold as a whole.

[HeraldOfExius]

I'm currently at chapter 8, but I've gotten sidetracked by getting the DLC emblems. It took a while to get used to the break system and engaging emblems since I usually favor a slower and more defensive style. Consequently, Louis has been my MVP most of the time (usually with Sigurd, but now he's even more powerful with Hector letting him follow up even while using a spear that weighs him down to 0 speed).

[Rising Phoenix]

I am midway through my third playthrough. IMO the emblems rank as follow

S: Tiki (Boosted growth alone make her s, the fact that she turns anyone into an unlikable tank is plus), Corrin (being able to say 'NO' to the enemy via cc is massive), Lucina (bonded shield strats are broken. You can tank an infinite number of enemies), Lyn (makes ANY unit good and mulangir is arguably the best bow in the game, she also has utility via clones), Micaiah (staves are really strong in this game), Soren (Magic tanks are op).
A: Ike, Hector, Edelgard, Byleth (He would be S if goddess dance was up more often), Veronica, Chrobin (makes mixed attack units stronger and rally spectrum)
B: Camila, Sigurd (these two can be A or S tier depending on how much you value movement), Erica,
C: Marth (nice stats, but nothing game breaking), Roy (Corrin spams he's ultimate attack at will), Celica
D: Leif