Stone Shape and Petrified creatures?

[SangoProduction]

The Stone Shape spell lets you change the shape of a stone object. Fine detail isn't possible, so using it to try and bulk up by getting petrified isn't a particularly good idea, one would presume.

A petrified character has been turned to stone and is considered unconscious. If a petrified character cracks or breaks, but the broken pieces are joined with the body as he returns to flesh, he is unharmed. If the character’s petrified body is incomplete when it returns to flesh, the body is likewise incomplete and there is some amount of permanent hit point loss and/or debilitation.
From the PFSRD. (Pretty much same for 3.5.)

The writing here, though, doesn't state any malformities unless the stone is actually broken or incomplete.
So, let's say that the petrified character is stone shaped into a medium sized block of stone. Solid block, with no features whatsoever.
What happens when you cast stone to flesh on it? Is the entire mass of the rock just a bunch of flesh, from which the character can pull itself free? Horrifying... Probably something Freudian about that.
Does it collapse back into the original form?
Or is the character just deformed to death, as a cube is not conducive to maintaining the life functions of a (former) humanoid?
Speaking of former humanoid... do they instead turn into a slime? With or without their consciousness and/or soul?

If your rock form is stretched / otherwise disfigured in such a way, could your form be sculpted back to normal? Or even more than "normal" with "sculpted abs"? Although those pieces that are chipped off are definitely not back... they were deformed, and was shaped back to "normal" form before the refleshing.

...Actually, deeper question. How does the "Stone to Flesh" spell know where to put the biologically functional pieces, for a petrified creature. Because most of the time, a petrified creature isn't depicted with distinct organs within its stony frame. Tends to be depicted as stone, straight through.

[Darg]

Technically a petrified creature is just that, a stone creature. Not a stone or stone object. It's the reason why Stone to flesh works on a stone golem. No real rules to back this up though. Just makes the most sense because shaping a stone golem would be a little awkward. No mechanical effect and yet still being able to warp them into shapes that should have mechanical effect?

As for stone to flesh, a petrified creature is still the same creature, just stone. That said, If we think of the body as a vessel filled to the brim then it wouldn't be hard to see everything being turned into solid stone. The body doesn't have pockets of space if we consider cavities themselves as part of the body. So if the body and everything inside it becomes stone then it would literally be one solid stone without distinct parts because everything is filled with something.

[liquidformat]

The body doesn't have pockets of space if we consider cavities themselves as part of the body.

So you are saying for example the gas buildup in your stomach and intestines would turn to stone too? I would think those would end up being voids inside the stone form and your body while being mostly solid would still have some gaps.

Personally, I would toss in the rules from polymorph for the petrified creature's new form. Seems reasonable enough to me.

[Darg]

So you are saying for example the gas buildup in your stomach and intestines would turn to stone too? I would think those would end up being voids inside the stone form and your body while being mostly solid would still have some gaps.

Personally, I would toss in the rules from polymorph for the petrified creature's new form. Seems reasonable enough to me.

If we think about it logically, there is a lot of inorganic matter within our bodies along with a number I can't count of different substances. Why make a spell more complex than it needs to be? Just turn all matter into stone. simple and easy. As for the amount of space based on the density of each type of substance, eh, if the spell turns everything into stone based on that then the body would likely self destruct under the structural instability. But hey, it's magic and the fluff is simply fluff. It doesn't have to make sense.

[loky1109]

Clothes and armor are petrified, too.

But:

But hey, it's magic and the fluff is simply fluff. It doesn't have to make sense.
I can't agree. Magic should make more sense than anything. Magic itself broke SoD enough, we don't need broke it more, we need fix SoD.
Best magic is magic as branch of physics.

[Crake]

The answers to questions like these invariably are left up to the DM. The rules arent intended to cover every single edgecase or provide a framework for how the metaphysics of magic work, part of the fun is coming up with answers yourself

[SangoProduction]

The answers to questions like these invariably are left up to the DM. The rules arent intended to cover every single edgecase or provide a framework for how the metaphysics of magic work, part of the fun is coming up with answers yourself

Part of the reason for the question is to ascertain how others would rule it. ;p

[Tzardok]

It would depend, but unless the changes are subtle I would say that wrecking a petrified being like this maims or kills it just as breaking pieces off.

[Fero]

One time in a 3.0 game, the party Thief got Petrified. I didn't realize at the time that I could revert him to flesh. Therefore, I used stone shape to take his gear to revert at a later time (the staue was too big to carry). Once I realized I could revert the petrification, I reverted his gear to its normal state. The DM ruled that I also took various chunks of flesh, including his boots. I felt bad about not saving our ally until I realized the Thief had been looting all the treasures while the rest of the party fought (we just thought the DM was stingy with treasure). I ended up with more than 50% of the party's total wealth. Of course, I did not tell anyone.

[johnbragg]

The writing here, though, doesn't state any malformities unless the stone is actually broken or incomplete.
So, let's say that the petrified character is stone shaped into a medium sized block of stone. Solid block, with no features whatsoever.
What happens when you cast stone to flesh on it? Is the entire mass of the rock just a bunch of flesh, from which the character can pull itself free? Horrifying... Probably something Freudian about that.
Does it collapse back into the original form?
Or is the character just deformed to death, as a cube is not conducive to maintaining the life functions of a (former) humanoid?
Speaking of former humanoid... do they instead turn into a slime? With or without their consciousness and/or soul?

No reason to expect any damage or change to the soul. It's a polymorph effect.

Start flipping through the splatbooks for an aberration or maybe a demon that fits. Find a creature that's basically a gross lump of flesh with a slam attack and some pseudopods, maybe an engulf ability, and slap the PC's class levels on it.

Plot hooks: How can this transformation be reversed?
Options: Flesh to Stone, Stone Shape with a really high Craft DC to fix the PC, Stone to Flesh, maybe a Heal for good measure.

EDIT: You'll want to get some player input into this process. Are they cool with trading humanity for power? In that case, maybe let them suggest some splatbook options. If not, make it a lot easier for them to discover how to reverse the process,


If your rock form is stretched / otherwise disfigured in such a way, could your form be sculpted back to normal? Or even more than "normal" with "sculpted abs"? Although those pieces that are chipped off are definitely not back... they were deformed, and was shaped back to "normal" form before the refleshing.

...Actually, deeper question. How does the "Stone to Flesh" spell know where to put the biologically functional pieces, for a petrified creature. Because most of the time, a petrified creature isn't depicted with distinct organs within its stony frame. Tends to be depicted as stone, straight through.

1. The Petrified Forest in Arizona has petrified trees with visible internal ring systems, because of the aeons-long process of mineralization. So no reason that the Flesh-To-Stone spell can't duplicate that instantaneously. Artistic depictions of a uniform stone consistency inside are Wrong (TM).
2. Terry Pratchitt's Discworld had a theory of morphic resonance. The body remembers it's shape and how it's shape is generally supposed to work. The spell is Stone to Flesh, not Stone to PRocessed Congealed MEat. (It defaults to processed congealed meat if no soul is attached to the flesh.)

[redking]

You could go either way and you'd be right.

1. Changing the form of the stone causes harm. Or;
2. Changing the form of the stone does nothing.

If its a PC I'd probably tell the player to make a fortitude save to make it interesting.

[Chronos]

"Stone" isn't a single substance; it's a whole category of substances. There are lots of kinds of stone. My headcanon is that each of the body's different kinds of tissues turns into a different kind of stone. Like, maybe muscles turn into granite, while liver tissue turns into basalt. And if you carefully sliced up a petrified creature, you could see fine anatomical detail in all of these different kinds of stone.

Most natural stones are all one kind of stone, so if you cast Stone to Flesh on a stone wall, you might end up with one big mass of liver tissue, or one big mass of muscle tissue, or one big mass of nerve tissue, or the like.

Stone Shaping a petrified creature, and then re-fleshing them, is sure to result in at least a loss of hit points, or death if the change is too extreme (like a cubical block). It won't result in any new abilities: A stone-shaped extra arm, for instance, would probably be the wrong tissue types, and just end up as a floppy useless arm-shaped pseudopod. Fixing this would probably require at least Heal or Regenerate, or Resurrection if dead (Raise Dead wouldn't be enough).

[Crake]

Stone Shaping a petrified creature, and then re-fleshing them, is sure to result in at least a loss of hit points, or death if the change is too extreme (like a cubical block). It won't result in any new abilities: A stone-shaped extra arm, for instance, would probably be the wrong tissue types, and just end up as a floppy useless arm-shaped pseudopod. Fixing this would probably require at least Heal or Regenerate, or Resurrection if dead (Raise Dead wouldn't be enough).

Roughly how I would rule it as well

[Zancloufer]

So there is an old 1st Ed module that has something similar to this actually. One of the things the PCs can encounter is a ring of stone rectangles arranged akin to Stonehenge. The stones however are actually living beings that are under the effect of a [slightly different] Flesh to Stone spell. The Module does say you can reverse this, but only the stones that are intact release living people.

Not exactly the same as Flesh to Stone then Stone Shape but it's the closest thing to that I've read in official material that might be considered a ruling.

[Gruftzwerg]

...Actually, deeper question. How does the "Stone to Flesh" spell know where to put the biologically functional pieces, for a petrified creature. Because most of the time, a petrified creature isn't depicted with distinct organs within its stony frame. Tends to be depicted as stone, straight through.

Imho StF doesn't need to know how your body looked like before. It is just effectively dispelling/countering the "petrified" status.

This would also mean that any changes made to the stone (Stone Shape) would still be there and possibly kill the target.
Would that be OP? Imho not really. Flesh to Stone is already a 6th lvl spell. You can kill with a 6th lvl spell on a failed save, there are enough options. Thus killing with 2 spells ain't that special at all.

[Darg]

To be fair, between flesh to stone, the petrified condition, and stone to flesh even if you stone shaped the creature the modifications wouldn't stay and the creature would be returned to normal.


The subject, along with all its carried gear, turns into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the subject (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities.


If a petrified character cracks or breaks, but the broken pieces are joined with the body as he returns to flesh, he is unharmed. If the character’s petrified body is incomplete when it returns to flesh, the body is likewise incomplete and there is some amount of permanent hit point loss and/or debilitation.


This spell restores a petrified creature to its normal state, restoring life and goods. The creature must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to survive the process. Any petrified creature, regardless of size, can be restored.

The only things that would remain after the stone to flesh is damage or loss.

[Rynjin]

Personally, I enjoy manmade horrors beyond our comprehension, so I'd say they end up like Angelo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0n4SpDCdlE) if he ever got re-fleshed.