Branching out from 5e

[Zuras]

Due to the recent unpleasantness, my D&D 5e group was discussing other RPG systems to try.

If you were limited to a list of five, what games would you recommend to cover the widest variety of different design ideas?

The primary criteria are a) popular enough there are numerous articles and actual plays for it, and b) it has an SRD or quick start to see the actual rules with minimal expense. Additionally, systems with interesting mechanics or other lessons that can be applied back to 5e are a plus.

To cover the spectrum of narrative centric games, Fate seems the obvious choice, and Gumshoe seems like another—I have encountered issues when running mysteries in 5e, and am interested in how Gumshoe streamlines investigations. Beyond that, I’m looking for suggestions.

[Easy e]

Fudge - Generic pre-cursor to Fate, with word only options!

Legend of the 5 Rings- 5th edition (Genesys)- special dice and a very structured game world

Monster of the Week - Powered by the Apocalypse 2d6 with heavy narrative focus

Call of Cthulhu- % based, roll under system where players degrade instead of improve all the time

Conan (Or property you are most interested in) - Modiphius 2d20 system with Meta currencies




Those would be my opening recommendations.

[Kurald Galain]

All right, let me suggest..

(1) Pathfinder
(2) Old World of Darkness
(3) Sorry citizen, this text is above your security clearance. Please report to the nearest termination booth. Have a nice daycycle!
(4) Call of Chthulhu
(5) probably something scifi'ish but I don't particularly like scifi games myself.

[Batcathat]

In addition to what's already been mentioned, maybe Mutants & Masterminds (mostly for the power building system, which I'm very fond of) and Risus (to include something super rules light).

[kyoryu]

GURPS
BRP (Call of Cthulhu or Runequest would be where I'd start)
PbtA (Monster of the Week is good, Apocalypse World is good)
Fate
Savage Worlds

[NichG]

Nobilis needs to be on the list somewhere, its design is just very different and it presents a very different way of thinking about power, challenge, meaningfulness, etc.

[Zuras]

GURPS
BRP (Call of Cthulhu or Runequest would be where I'd start)
PbtA (Monster of the Week is good, Apocalypse World is good)
Fate
Savage Worlds

How do Powered by the Apocalypse and Savage Worlds compare to Fate in terms of handling meta-currencies and narrative mechanics? My last Fate campaign there were several players who were fine with Fate but objected to SW and PbtA systems.

Is BRP really all that different from other Stats & Skills based systems? I’ve heard good things about Call of Cthulhu, but it doesn’t seem like the sort of thing to just dip your toes into for a couple of sessions. Same with GURPS, actually. I own over a dozen world books and the basic rules, but I’m afraid the up front complexity of character building would be a non-starter for a handful of sessions.

[Tanarii]

Forbidden Lands by Free League.

If you want more modern post-apocalyptic, Free League's Mutant Year Zero line instead.

[Batcathat]

Forbidden Lands by Free League.

If you want more modern post-apocalyptic, Free League's Mutant Year Zero line instead.

Speaking of Free League, there's Tales from the Loop (inspired by the art of Simon Stålenhag, so it's great to look at if nothing else) if you want to play something along the lines of Stranger Things or ET.

[Anonymouswizard]

Nobilis needs to be on the list somewhere, its design is just very different and it presents a very different way of thinking about power, challenge, meaningfulness, etc.

Glitch and Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine are also definitely worth looking at. CMWGE is a pseudo-sequel to Nobilis that takes the 3e rules and really focuses in on the mortal action rules, combined with a pastoral fantasy setting and a slice of life focus. It's pretty much as far away from D&D as you can get.

Glitch meanwhile is clearly a Nobilis 4 prototype, but it's still worth looking at due to it's perspective flip and refinement of the ideas Chuubo introduced (Dr Moran did not realise how poorly emotion XP scaled with group size, and Spotlights are a great thing). It also has the most realistic example of play I've ever seen, everything was going so well until they let the character with medically induced narcolepsy drive...

All three are also diceless, and very well designed. As in no, the rules really do reinforce the very specific fiction that the game talks about,if it doesn't appear so you need to reread and find what you missed. Dr Jenna Moran is possibly the greatest RPG writer alive.


On the complete other end of the spectrum to the Jennaverse I'm going to recommend Unknown Armies. It was a toss up between this and Chronicles of Darkness/nWoD, but UA3 is by far the more interesting. It's a low powered game of cosmic stakes, where magick is based on trends and archetypes (at least for PCs, it can get weird), where the PCs have gotten involved in the Occult Underground because there's something they want that they're willing to sacrifice sanity for and delve into the supernatural for. Characters are primarily defined by their Shock Guages (how much trauma you have, and how resistant to it you are, in five flavours, and determines your basic abilities), identities (what you think of yourself as, subs for Shock Guages when and does other thematic stuff), Obsession (pretty self explanatory), and Triggers (what makes you angry, afraid, and a good person), with nothing physical being strictly involved. The gameplay is intended to be player-driven in support of the group's stated Objectives, combat is dangerous (the combat section offers six alternatives to fighting before the actual rules), and the setting is set up to support the weird and unsettling. But under all of it is the prize so many people are fighting for, if that's what you want. You might not, you might just want to kill your kid's drama teacher. You're a ragtag collection of people in over their head, criminals, avatars of highly resonant archetypes, and that porn wizard who hangs out with you, but you have a goal and you have tools.

Unknown Armies is not a game about playing cool detached people, in the way that D&D and WoD can be. It's about playing the kind of people who can look back at a ruined life and trail of destruction, and say it was worth it because they got what they want. The kind of people who'll say that and truly believe it. You did it.

[Kane0]

I don't know about variety, but my current to-read list contains:
- Savage Worlds
- Knave
- STARS
- Worlds Without Number
- Shadow of the Demon Lord

[Pauly]

My top 2. Very good game systems which are well tested and have tons of support.

- Call of Cthulhu (you can take the horror out and run it as a mystery/investigative game)
- Traveller (old school hard sci-fi with a very long history)

3 which have good support and more importantly very compelling settings for roleplaying.

- Space 1889 (more for the setting not the game system. It’s the most enjoyable setting I’ve played in)
- L5R. (Edo era Japan with a twist. Lots of support and is quite a good game in its own right)
- Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2020. (Dystopian near future settings. Very stylish settings and both have an abundance of support. Shadowrun is more fantasy influenced and Cyberpunk more tech influenced).

[Zuras]

Nobilis needs to be on the list somewhere, its design is just very different and it presents a very different way of thinking about power, challenge, meaningfulness, etc.

Nobilis sounds really interesting. Does it work as a multiple session game, or is it more suited for one-shots?

[NichG]

Nobilis sounds really interesting. Does it work as a multiple session game, or is it more suited for one-shots?

It's fine for multiple sessions - better even, since players can be taking very large-scale actions and so there's generally a lot of potential consequences, side-effects, etc of those things which can come up in subsequent games and even make up the main body of continuing play. Yes, it was really important to turn off the sun for 3 seconds so the concept of beauty couldn't be stolen from the universe, but now a half dozen solar deities are protesting your unilateral decision and ...

[NRSASD]

Blades in the Dark! It’s a heist game with no planning phase. It’s a hard shift from D&D sensibilities but a fascinating one all the same.

[Catullus64]

My pet RPG system, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (2e) definitely fits criterion A, but to my knowledge not Criterion B. 4th Edition, with which I'm less familiar and less enthused, does I believe have a free basic rules doc.

The latest edition of RuneQuest also has a free starter pack including adventure and pregen characters. I've liked previous RuneQuest editions and this looks similar, but I haven't played this edition at all.

[stoutstien]

Worlds/stars/cities without numbers

Mork borg and it's 1000 clone/spin offs

Any of the 2d20 systems by Modiphius

Modified travelers

Zweihänder

[KorvinStarmast]

Blades in the Dark! It’s a heist game with no planning phase. It’s a hard shift from D&D sensibilities but a fascinating one all the same. It's pretty good, but it does take getting used to if coming from D&D. For beginners, I'd suggest they read up on how to use flashbacks more than once.

The latest edition of RuneQuest also has a free starter pack including adventure and pregen characters. I've liked previous RuneQuest editions and this looks similar, but I haven't played this edition at all. If I had more time, I'd like to look into this since I remember fondly our Runequest game in the 80's that broke up when most of the players had to move.

[JellyPooga]

My 5-if-no-others;

1) GURPS. It covers a lot of ground, has quick start rules and plenty of supplemental material if that's your jam, but is perfectly serviceable for any number of genres and styles straight out the box. You don't even really need more than just the core players guide to get started. It's nice and crunchy for when you want hard rules rather than narrative freedom. Which brings me to...

2) The One Ring. Elegance, elegance elegance. I don't think I've ever encountered a system that exemplifies pure game design ideals quite like TOR. Every system and subsystem ties into the other without being obtrusive or feeling forced. Game concepts are intuitive and easy to use and it has huge narrative emphasis behind all its number crunching. Character development is both lateral and vertical with death being only one option for why your character exits play. It has rules for all aspects of play, from combat and social encounters to exploration and travel, all using the same systems and dice mechanics. It's also remarkably easy to reflavour from its base setting (Lord of the Rings) into any other; for example, I've rejigged it for 40k Dark Heresy without really changing much but a few names and adding in greater emphasis on gunplay over melee combat. Another "one book" buy too; yes, there's supplemental material, but the core books are all you need.

3) Cyberpunk 2020. Yeah. It's a mess. A car-crash of a system that's broken in all the right ways such that you can't help but think that it's supposed to be. If you can get past Friday-Night-Firefight (the combat system) being the horror-show of 80's game design that it is and immerse yourself in the setting, though? Man. It's an absolute blast to play. Is it a ridiculous mash-up of memes, dystopian and apocalyptic sci-fi, plus some body horror and all wrapped with a side order of fever-dream tripping through the mass hallucination that is the Matrix? Yeah. Dive deep into this one to get the most out of it. Rule of Cool absolutely outguns anything written in black and white and this is where it's better than any of its later iterations (e.g. CP-Red) or copycats (e.g. Shadowrun); the rules are fast and loose because they're just a framework to hang the game on. There to be used as needed or ignored when they're not; style is what matters, not whether you have XYZ Feat or ability. Oh, and don't forget to brush up on your street-slang. Chrome up or get murked chombatta.

4) Dark Heresy 2e. This one is really an honourable mention more than a recommendation, if only for the truly beautiful book (seriously; it's an art piece in and of itself) and deep lore that exists for the 40k setting. Does the system work/is it good? Yeah, for sure. It's a little on the crunchy side with vast tables of modifiers, long lists of features and special abilities to remember/utilise, etc. BUT it's also a lot of fun in a chaotic way. Those critical hit tables and perils of the warp rolls can throw up some hilarious (if bloody) results that can swing a game from terribly predictable to unexpectedly challenging. There's some nice game concepts hidden within the arcane pages of the rulebook too, if you can find them or can be bothered to use them. DH is supposed to be completely over the top and it is. It's supposed to have a dark humour behind everything and it does. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods. Such an evocative quote that sums up a well-run game of DH. Particularly when you consider that those "thirsting gods"...are nothing more than parodies of the people that play the games themselves (so meta! :smalltongue:).

5) Traveller. This one gets a lot of flack for the whole lifepath character creation system (dying in char gen is a weird concept!), but once you lean in it's just a rules-lite system with a heap of inspirational material and a lot of freedom. If you want to play as Mal, Wash and the rest of Serenity's crew from Firefly, then this is your bag. On a different scale, you can play the likes of Starship Troopers, Star Wars, even Star Trek, among other popular franchises/concepts. It's simple, evocative and has enough material contained within to inspire player and GM alike. It definitely falls into that "old school" mindset of games; it's unforgiving and isn't about "balanced play" or other modern concepts of game design. It's just about rolling some dice and having some fun and it does a good job of it.

[Zuras]

Blades in the Dark! It’s a heist game with no planning phase. It’s a hard shift from D&D sensibilities but a fascinating one all the same.

The one player in our group who plays lots of OSR and other systems always has good things to say about Blades in the Dark. It sounds very fit-for-purpose for running heist games.


My pet RPG system, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (2e) definitely fits criterion A, but to my knowledge not Criterion B. 4th Edition, with which I'm less familiar and less enthused, does I believe have a free basic rules doc.

The latest edition of RuneQuest also has a free starter pack including adventure and pregen characters. I've liked previous RuneQuest editions and this looks similar, but I haven't played this edition at all.

What is the main attraction for these? Is it the fantasy combat engine that keeps the hit points=meat points model but still supports heroes beyond mere mortal capabilities? Or do they have additional virtues in addition to avoiding the padded sumo problem?


Worlds/stars/cities without numbers

Mork borg and it's 1000 clone/spin offs

Any of the 2d20 systems by Modiphius

Modified travelers

Zweihänder

I might introduce them to an OSR system, but I’d probably stick with the simplest and most streamlined system I can find and focus on interacting with a fun dungeon. Any recommendations for a good funhouse dungeon for $20 or less? They liked the 5e conversion of White Plume Mountain.

Mork Borg seems straightforward enough, but I’m not sure the bleak tone is for everyone. I’m afraid it might hit the worst possible combination of half the group loving it and half finding it annoying.

[Anonymouswizard]

Nobilis sounds really interesting. Does it work as a multiple session game, or is it more suited for one-shots?

Nobilis and it's offshoots are designed for campaign play, 3e and spinoffs have Projects and Quests which are going to take multiple sessions to complete (with 'who:s quest are we working on' defining the tone of the session).


Blades in the Dark! It’s a heist game with no planning phase. It’s a hard shift from D&D sensibilities but a fascinating one all the same.

The space opera spinoff Scum & Villainy is worth looking at as well. It's not as purely heist focused, but it can totally still be used for them.

Despite the name Star Wars is actually a relatively minor influence. The three ship types and campaign models are based on Firefly, Cowboy Bebop, and Blake's Seven, and the playbooks are pretty much one to one for the Firefly main cast (the exception being the Mystic, who is a bit more Jedi than River Song). The setting is designed to be your generic space opera with a Big Authority you want to oppose, and it has all the benefits of Blades in the Dark.

I think my favourite bit of the games is that before a mission you decide how much you're carrying but not what. Then as long as you haven't hit your load limit you can pull out any of your tools when you want. Does the mechanic have their drone on them this mission or did they bring Setanta the space ferret? You'll find out when you need one!

[stoutstien]

I might introduce them to an OSR system, but I’d probably stick with the simplest and most streamlined system I can find and focus on interacting with a fun dungeon. Any recommendations for a good funhouse dungeon for $20 or less? They liked the 5e conversion of White Plume Mountain.

Mork Borg seems straightforward enough, but I’m not sure the bleak tone is for everyone. I’m afraid it might hit the worst possible combination of half the group loving it and half finding it annoying.

I don't personally use a lot of pregen material but there are piles of self contained dungeons that can work with all those OSR/OSR adjacent systems. I do miss those old magazines that had mini 2 page fun runs as I called them. Pick up the free version of if WWN and you can roll one up in like 8 minutes.

For Mork borg it's really the system that's nice so you can rip it out and run anything with it because it's so simple yet engaging. I have one running as a pirate/profiteer game for about 13 sessions so far and it's a blast.

[Easy e]

I am also a big fan of West End Games Star Wars 2nd Edition, which I think was reprinted as a hardcover in the past half decade or so. Simple D6 system with a Wild Dice and a very broad skill systems keeps the game flowing. Very simple and intuitive system. It also has one of the best sections about how to GM a game I have ever read.

[LibraryOgre]

Due to the recent unpleasantness, my D&D 5e group was discussing other RPG systems to try.

If you were limited to a list of five, what games would you recommend to cover the widest variety of different design ideas?

The primary criteria are a) popular enough there are numerous articles and actual plays for it, and b) it has an SRD or quick start to see the actual rules with minimal expense. Additionally, systems with interesting mechanics or other lessons that can be applied back to 5e are a plus.

To cover the spectrum of narrative centric games, Fate seems the obvious choice, and Gumshoe seems like another—I have encountered issues when running mysteries in 5e, and am interested in how Gumshoe streamlines investigations. Beyond that, I’m looking for suggestions.

Savage Worlds is a favorite of mine; it's very flexible, with official settings like the Weird West of Deadlands, Pathfinder, and Rifts. I've used it to make passable versions of Star Wars, Shadowrun, Mass Effect, and Elder Scrolls. Big following, easy to follow rules. It has a free test drive. (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/339651/Savage-Worlds-Adventure-Edition-Test-Drive?affiliate_id=315505)

More niche is Hackmaster. Hackmaster 4th edition was an explicit continuation of 2e AD&D, with a license from WotC, but 5th Edition is a stand-alone game. It has a good, well-integrated skill system, but is crunchy, crunchy, crunchy, and has a much smaller community. It has a free basic set (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/104757/HackMaster-Basic-free?affiliate_id=315505), and one of the most handsome and sexy freelancers in existence. (https://kenzerco.com/2022/02/28/travelers-companion-shadesh-west-book-2/) This would definitely fall into the "interesting mechanics" area.

[Catullus64]

What is the main attraction for these? Is it the fantasy combat engine that keeps the hit points=meat points model but still supports heroes beyond mere mortal capabilities? Or do they have additional virtues in addition to avoiding the padded sumo problem?


I find the career system of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG immensely fun, and I'm a Warhammer fan more generally. As for the combat system, it's got some bits of poor design (a lot of the Specialist weapons, for instance are inferior to Basic weapons), but on the whole it's very robust. Turns consist of either one full-action or two half-actions, with a pretty wide range of actions. Thus, all characters, even those who aren't specialized for combat, have a wide range of tactical options, and combat moves pretty swiftly.

As for RuneQuest, I can only speak to older editions. The combat was very much meant to be a more simulationist response to the then-still-new D&D, and as such is pretty fiddly. The kind of system with lots of little percentile modifiers and weapon statistics. It's the game world & the intertwined magic system that are big draws for me. From what I've seen of the rules of the newest edition, the core principles are the same, but the combat is less overly detailed. The combat runs on similar principles to latter-era Call of Cthulhu, by the same company, but not quite as lethal to PCs (since it is still a fantasy adventure game and not a horror game).

[LibraryOgre]

I am also a big fan of West End Games Star Wars 2nd Edition, which I think was reprinted as a hardcover in the past half decade or so. Simple D6 system with a Wild Dice and a very broad skill systems keeps the game flowing. Very simple and intuitive system. It also has one of the best sections about how to GM a game I have ever read.

The 1st edition of Star Wars D6 was reprinted. However, before WEG went under, they released openD6 (http://opend6project.org/), an SRD for their games, including Space, Adventure, and Fantasy.

[kyoryu]

How do Powered by the Apocalypse and Savage Worlds compare to Fate in terms of handling meta-currencies and narrative mechanics? My last Fate campaign there were several players who were fine with Fate but objected to SW and PbtA systems.

Is BRP really all that different from other Stats & Skills based systems? I’ve heard good things about Call of Cthulhu, but it doesn’t seem like the sort of thing to just dip your toes into for a couple of sessions. Same with GURPS, actually. I own over a dozen world books and the basic rules, but I’m afraid the up front complexity of character building would be a non-starter for a handful of sessions.

PbtA:
It all depends on the game. While it's a "narrative system" I think it's generally more so from the viewpoint of "things should play out like a TV show" rather than "author stance". Apocalypse World itself includes very few meta mechanics - the biggest thing is that in the first session you're supposed to ask a lot of questions of the players to flesh out the situation, but then the examples don't suggest you do that beyond that. However, lots of people have expanded that to the rest of the game. Most of the things can be presented as "character facing", and the closest thing to meta is that you get "hold" in a few places, which just means you can do something some number of times.

Savage Worlds:
Bennies are both less integral than Fate Points, and seem less integrated into the world, so they feel more "purely" meta - you can get them for making the table laugh, and there's no requirement or even suggestion to make them fit into the situation when being used. It feels more like a lighter version of GURPS to me.

BRP:
Honestly, as a player, i think you can dip into it pretty easily. In a lot of ways it feels like a skill system and realism mod tacked onto D&D to me, and it's fairly easy to get into, especially if you have a GM that's experienced.

GURPS:
Definitely some front loading, though use of ! skills can decrease the amount of time. Still a fun game.

[Zuras]

I find the career system of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG immensely fun, and I'm a Warhammer fan more generally. As for the combat system, it's got some bits of poor design (a lot of the Specialist weapons, for instance are inferior to Basic weapons), but on the whole it's very robust. Turns consist of either one full-action or two half-actions, with a pretty wide range of actions. Thus, all characters, even those who aren't specialized for combat, have a wide range of tactical options, and combat moves pretty swiftly.

As for RuneQuest, I can only speak to older editions. The combat was very much meant to be a more simulationist response to the then-still-new D&D, and as such is pretty fiddly. The kind of system with lots of little percentile modifiers and weapon statistics. It's the game world & the intertwined magic system that are big draws for me. From what I've seen of the rules of the newest edition, the core principles are the same, but the combat is less overly detailed. The combat runs on similar principles to latter-era Call of Cthulhu, by the same company, but not quite as lethal to PCs (since it is still a fantasy adventure game and not a horror game).

How similar are WFRP and Zweihander? My understanding is that Zweihander’s designer took their favorite WFRP mechanics from all the editions and mixed in all the modern mechanics the kids these days love.


The 1st edition of Star Wars D6 was reprinted. However, before WEG went under, they released openD6 (http://opend6project.org/), an SRD for their games, including Space, Adventure, and Fantasy.

Now that the d6 Star Wars is out of print, is there a compelling setting that showcases the strengths of the d6 system, or are the main d6 resources primarily setting agnostic?

(Update)

I went ahead and picked up the free versions of GUMSHOE, Worlds Without Number, GURPS, Fudge and Call of Cthulhu. I’m a bit dubious that the free versions will be compelling reading, given they all seem to exclude setting material, but they should provide some context when I can get around to watching or listening to some actual plays.

[LibraryOgre]

Now that the d6 Star Wars is out of print, is there a compelling setting that showcases the strengths of the d6 system, or are the main d6 resources primarily setting agnostic?


Not that I know of. I would say they're mostly setting agnostic, but with some alterations for different settings. For example, the six attributes are
Space are Agility, Knowledge, Mechanical, Perception, Strength, Technical
Adventure is Reflexes, Coordination, Physique, Knowledge, Perception, Presence
Fantasy is Agility, Coordination, Physique, Intellect, Acumen, Charisma

And skills change up. It's still setting-agnostic... I could use Fantasy for Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, or Mythic Europe... but it's organized towards genre.

[DrMartin]

- Into the Odd for an extremely streamlined OSR/DND Lite experience. Mausritter for the same but playing as a mouse.

- Spellbound Kingdom for cool swashbuckler action and unique combat and magic system, and a good example of game mechanics being reflected in the game setting

- Lancer, for cool mecha action and a game with an explicit game loop reflected in the game system (almost free narrative play when out of the cockpit / precise tactical combat when in the mech on a mission). Would have suggested Blades in the Dark in this slot but it's been mentioned upthread a few times already, so you get mechas instead.

- Arc, for a system geared towards one-shots, with game mechanics that push the plot ahead based on predetermined "triggers" in real time.

- Shadow of the Demon Lord if you want another fantasy game with classes and levels and D20s

[Zuras]

Not that I know of. I would say they're mostly setting agnostic, but with some alterations for different settings. For example, the six attributes are
Space are Agility, Knowledge, Mechanical, Perception, Strength, Technical
Adventure is Reflexes, Coordination, Physique, Knowledge, Perception, Presence
Fantasy is Agility, Coordination, Physique, Intellect, Acumen, Charisma

And skills change up. It's still setting-agnostic... I could use Fantasy for Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, or Mythic Europe... but it's organized towards genre.

Ok. It sounds very much like a customizable system like Fudge where the GM has to put in significant work to customize it to fit their setting, but should end up fairly straightforward after the setup is done (and far less work then setting things up from scratch).

It seems like the Open d6 audience is pretty limited, then. Even if the system is great, it doesn’t seem like a great option for anyone who hasn’t already played or GMed a decent amount of Star Wars or another already-tuned d6 implementation. I certainly wouldn’t trust myself to customize an unfamiliar engine for a specific setting.

For that reason, when looking at flexible “universal” systems, I feel much more comfortable with something like Fate, where I can concretely express the vibe of the fiction/setting with aspects and run into trouble only when the players aren’t familiar with the genre tropes and conventions.

Fate also has the advantage of lots of inexpensive settings with specific skill trees (Core) or approaches (Accelerated), usually with logic behind the choices. For example, Fight and Shoot might be separate in a combat heavy setting to distinguish different types of combatants, but in a heist focused campaign, only one character in the crew is focused on combat, so the distinction is unnecessary.

There may be similar additional resources for custom d6 and Fudge settings out there, but if so they’re harder to find. Fate settings get slapped with easily searchable labels like “Worlds of Fate” and Savage Worlds customizations are similarly clearly marked. My guess is that Fate has somewhat stolen Fudge’s thunder, and Open d6 just doesn’t have a publisher pushing content for it.

[Easy e]

Thanks for the info on OpenD6; I will try to look into it.

[Razade]

How do Powered by the Apocalypse and Savage Worlds compare to Fate in terms of handling meta-currencies and narrative mechanics? My last Fate campaign there were several players who were fine with Fate but objected to SW and PbtA systems.

The big thing is PbtA isn't a system, it's a design philosophy. There's no inherent mechanic that ties every game together, some games don't even really have mechanics in a crunchy sort of way. Plenty of them have similar themes in design, but that's what makes it a design philosophy and not a system in and of itself. Every game under the PbtA umbrella handles meta-currency differently so if your players objected to one game, it may be that there's another game under the umbrella that will serve their interests better and it's hard to pinpoint how the game handled it without knowing which game it is.

[Witty Username]

Cyberpunk
Traveller
World of Darkness
Call of Chultuhu
And Scion is pretty neat but I am not sure about its player base, since I don't hear about it as much.

All of them are pretty good systems to play: simpler than D&D generally, more open to variety for the most part(Cyberpunk will obviously be more restrictive than Traveller), and tend to do the genres and themes that D&D is less good at.

That being said, this is with D&D as part of my stuff, if your looking for a straight replacement for D&D you may need something more like Pathfinder or Warhammer, as they would be closer to it. Chultuhu: Dark Ages and Plup Chultuhu mods could probably get you a good way their though.

[Anonymouswizard]

Scion 2e and Trinity Continuum are pretty neat. They're both Storyteller/WoD descendants, but now running on a lighter slightly narrativist system. The big reason to use either over the 1e versions is the Tier and Scale rules, to avoid dice pools getting too big like in high powered CofD or Shadowrun sufficiently powerful characters get Tier (reduces the target number on dice) and/or scale (gives Enhancements, basically bonus successes, in a specific area). So a Nova (superhero) with Speed Scale 4 in a race with a car (Speed Scale 3) driven by a normal person needs a 7 on dice to get a success instead of an 8, and gets two bonus successes so long as at least one of her dice is a 7+. Having 3 more scale is officially an 'I win' button, but unlike Aberrant 1e or Scion 1e there's still a slight chance for the plucky normal to succeed as dice pools max out at 12 (6 Attribute+6 Skill, pretty much everything else gives Enhancements). Aberrant 1e had Mega-Attributes decide who got an 'I win' button whereas Scion 1e gave extra successes that built up to the point that having an extra dot was basically an automatic win (at Legend 5 you can have 7 automatic successes with a dice pool maximum of 10, by Legend 7 your automatic successes can be bigger than any dice pool you build).

Scion is about playing the children/creations/reincarnations/chosen ones of mythological entities in the modern world, and is designed to be relatively rules light and freeform. If one of your Paths (basically character background traits) implies you can get or do something that's supposed to go, although Knacks and Boons can make you better at stuff.

Trinity Continuum is aimed towards science fiction and is more crunchy, with the corebook being about playing people with probability based powers in the modern day. Paths are a bigger part of the game, they're now ranked and gives three dots to spread between four skills and two dots worth of Edges (Merits/Feats) per rank, meaning those choices you made in character creation may impact your growth more. It's big draw is having a ton of settings at various points in it's timeline that touches on different genres, Aeon is about six different genres with a core of military sci-fi focusing on psychics, Aberrant is superheroes, Adventure! is pulp adventure, and the upcoming Anima and Aether are cyberpunk and Steampunk.

[Zuras]

That being said, this is with D&D as part of my stuff, if your looking for a straight replacement for D&D you may need something more like Pathfinder or Warhammer, as they would be closer to it. Cthulhu: Dark Ages and Pulp Cthulhu mods could probably get you a good way there though.

This was more asking for a tour of the sorts of games available now, in five examples. I already have a list of potential D&D 5e replacements to try, including Numenera, 13th Age, Worlds Without Number, and Conan 2d20. Plus whatever comes out of the ORC license as a fork of 5e. I’m honestly pretty satisfied with 5e, but I haven’t really looked around previously beyond Pathfinder and older systems.

[DeMouse]

There are a bunch but my number 1 recommendation would definitely be Edge of the Empire/Genesys. Edge of the Empire is a Star Wars setting RPG and Genesys is a generic version of the same system. It is a great bridge from D&D into more narrative style of games without going whole hog like something like the Powered by the Apocalypse systems. Easy to grasp pickup rules and Edge of the Empire has one of my favourite class systems.
Only downside is that it has unique dice so you will need to use a digital dice roller unless you buy their special dice.

Apocalypse World is an open source narrative RPG that spawned a massive category of games using the same structure (powered by the Apocalypse). Ironically people who have played other TTRPGs might have more trouble with it than people who are completely new to the hobby. While it is very easy to pick up and learn for new players if you come at PBtA games with a D&D mindset you might have trouble getting the most out of it. I know my group really struggled with this.

Paranoia is a ton of fun to play as long as your players can get into the right mind space to do it properly. Maximum backstabbing and shenanigans are encouraged.

Shadowrun has my favourite RPG setting but the rules are a pain to learn so sadly I can't actually recommend it.

Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader are also great if your players are already interested in the Warhammer 40k setting. Dark Heresy in particular I love for how much support there is for randomly generating characters. This is the main system I GM.

[Anonymouswizard]

Actually, because Shadowrun's been brought up a couple of times, I'm going to say it has one really big advantage when branching out from D&D: a roughly similar gameplay structure.

A Shadowrun is, in broad strokes, similar to a D&D dungeon crawl when done in a pink mohawk style. Even mirrorshades shares some broad similarities, but in a pink mohawk style you have the location, a need to explore it to find the treasure, and a bunch of bodies to leave behind on your way. Combine that with the standard fantasy races and it can feel very different while remaining familiar, and with GM buy in characters can forgo the Matrix or Astral Plane (a B&E expert can be specced into dealing with necessary electronics, and smaller Megas won't have as much in the way of spirits or magic security). Then if players are fine you can start to slowly move away by increasing the focus on legwork and consequences.

Rules-wise each edition basically provides something different. I own 3e, 4e, Anarchy, and 6e, and used to own 5e, and honestly see the appeal behind everything except 5e. Both Anarchy and 6e/Sixth World are attempts to streamline the rules including collapsing the old skill list considerably and collapsing most advantages into giving metacurrency. I like them, some people hate them, it took several rounds of errata to make 6e playable, but it's worth finding a breakdown of the editions and picking one you like.

But who doesn't want to play an ork razorgirl?

[Firest Kathon]

Das schwarze Auge (The dark eye) - Rules are available for free on the wiki (https://www.ulisses-regelwiki.de/home.html), but are horribly unorganized there. There's quickstart rules available for free as well (not sure about the linking policies here, but you'll find it). Interesting 3d20 mechanic.
New Hong Kong Story - Rules available only in German unfortunately, but if you can read it a fun system for less than serious games. Basically you play an actor starring in an action movie (classical Hong Kong action, Wuxia, or other genres).
I enjoyed running games with the "Now Playing" rulebook for Fudge. It's a pretty solid implementation to run movie or TV serials as an RPG.

[kyoryu]

For that reason, when looking at flexible “universal” systems, I feel much more comfortable with something like Fate, where I can concretely express the vibe of the fiction/setting with aspects and run into trouble only when the players aren’t familiar with the genre tropes and conventions.

Fate also has the advantage of lots of inexpensive settings with specific skill trees (Core) or approaches (Accelerated), usually with logic behind the choices. For example, Fight and Shoot might be separate in a combat heavy setting to distinguish different types of combatants, but in a heist focused campaign, only one character in the crew is focused on combat, so the distinction is unnecessary.

Fate is my go-to these days, which may be kinda weird coming from a time when GURPS was.

One of the things I really like about Fate is that the default mechanics do a serviceable-to-great job of handling just about any setting - specific hacks can make things better in some cases, but they're almost never absolutely necessary. In most cases, a quick pass at the skill list and you can be off to the races. The way Create Advantage and other mechanics works does a pretty good job of handling how lots of things are portrayed in movies/TV, which is kinda where Fate aims itself.


The big thing is PbtA isn't a system, it's a design philosophy. There's no inherent mechanic that ties every game together, some games don't even really have mechanics in a crunchy sort of way. Plenty of them have similar themes in design, but that's what makes it a design philosophy and not a system in and of itself. Every game under the PbtA umbrella handles meta-currency differently so if your players objected to one game, it may be that there's another game under the umbrella that will serve their interests better and it's hard to pinpoint how the game handled it without knowing which game it is.

That's a good summary. It also means that there's no real "generic PbtA game" you can look to - you have to go to ones for specific genres.

[Zuras]

I grabbed some pdfs online based on the recommendations, and I have to say the number of systems out there available for free download is just staggering.

13th Age, Cypher System, GURPS, and Call of Cthulhu all have free SRDs or QuickStarts available on DriveThruRPG or elsewhere online.

GUMSHOE and Open d6 have free “light” versions as well (Pocket GUMSHOE and Mini Six, respectively).

Dozens of other systems have complete rule books for the full scale system available for free. I picked up Fudge, Worlds Without Number, Godbound, Ironsworn and Fate all for free this way. Granted some of these are older versions or exclude some content compared to the paid version, but the free version of WWN clocks in at over 300 pages.

It took me all of a week to go from not having enough time to run all the D&D modules I own to not having enough time to even read all the RPGs I own. At least I have Hasbro to blame it on.

{update}
My group is still greatly enjoying 5e, so branching out by trying systems that work as one-shots for nights some players can’t make it make the most sense. My current one shot plans are:

OSR dungeon crawl with a minimalist rule set (Knave or Mork Borg)

Fate one shot using Secret Life of Cats

One night playing Goblin Quest to try something really silly.

I also now have vague plans for a short WFRP/Zweihander/Warlock campaign over the summer (we have some former players who will be back from college and then gone again).

I’m still interested in other more divergent systems like Blades in the Dark or something Powered by the Apocalypse, but I’m not confident I could work through any new-system GM issues in a single session.

[Anonymouswizard]

I grabbed some pdfs online based on the recommendations, and I have to say the number of systems out there available for free download is just staggering.

13th Age, Cypher System, GURPS, and Call of Cthulhu all have free SRDs or QuickStarts available on DriveThruRPG or elsewhere online.

GUMSHOE and Open d6 have free “light” versions as well (Pocket GUMSHOE and Mini Six, respectively).

Dozens of other systems have complete rule books for the full scale system available for free. I picked up Fudge, Worlds Without Number, Godbound, Ironsworn and Fate all for free this way. Granted some of these are older versions or exclude some content compared to the paid version, but the free version of WWN clocks in at over 300 pages.

It took me all of a week to go from not having enough time to run all the D&D modules I own to not having enough time to even read all the RPGs I own. At least I Hasbro to blame it on.

Just wait until you find games like Eclipse Phase, where literally everything is free to share no matter where you got it from (although 1e character creation is a pain without Transhuman). It's a pretty cool post apocalyptic kitchen sink cyberpunk setting, but that also means it's pretty much crammed with every cool piece is speculative technology the devs knew of.

But yeah, CC-NC-SA 3.0, so you can download it, share it, remix it, and create entirely new content, but you can't sell anything without negotiating with the devs. It's not as nice as CC-BY, but it's understandable when it's a lot more focused on setting than D&D or Fate is.

[DeMouse]

Just wait until you find games like Eclipse Phase.

Man I really wish my playgroup were interested in Eclipse Phase. The Setting is so interesting.

[LibraryOgre]

Man I really wish my playgroup were interested in Eclipse Phase. The Setting is so interesting.

A number of years ago, I sat down with two literal rocket scientists (I lived in Houston, they're more common there, but both worked for companies that worked for NASA), and we had a bear of a time making characters in Eclipse Phase. One of them even went on to write part of a book for Eclipse Phase! (Justin Kugler wrote part of Panopticon, about different types of habitats).

[Anonymouswizard]

A number of years ago, I sat down with two literal rocket scientists (I lived in Houston, they're more common there, but both worked for companies that worked for NASA), and we had a bear of a time making characters in Eclipse Phase. One of them even went on to write part of a book for Eclipse Phase! (Justin Kugler wrote part of Panopticon, about different types of habitats).

I've puzzled my way through the corebook version, it's not that much more difficult than GURPS. Transhuman also gives a couple of alternative options which are easier, but they're not amazing, and I believe character creation is one of the things 2e is meant to clean up.

Honestly it took me longer to work out 5e Shadowrun, bloody Limits. I also don't think 4e Shadowrun is really that much easier, EP is just sense and not well explained at all.

Hmmm... considering I own two of the Shadowrun family already (and four separate editions of Shadowrun) maybe I should also pick up Equinox and Earthdawn.

[KorvinStarmast]

Due to the recent unpleasantness, my D&D 5e group

I suggest that you check out Delta. (http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/) Return to the roots that someone with a very organized way of thinking has cleaned up and upgraded.

[Zuras]

I suggest that you check out Delta. (http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/) Return to the roots that someone with a very organized way of thinking has cleaned up and upgraded.

The amount and quality of OSR stuff I’ve found has left me very uncertain whether I’d rather run a minor mechanical clean-up of one of the pre-3e systems, a total re-work like The White Hack, or a OSR-ified modern system like Five Torches Deep.

On one hand, I don’t have time to do extensive conversions from 1e to something else, but on the other, I don’t want to go back to the time before universal core resolution mechanisms.