Shaper of Form - Early entry optimization

[Rebel7284]

I have been on a bit of a kick looking for cool and interesting early qualification tricks recently and stumbled on Shaper of Form (Dragon Compendium variant, p. 85)

While the class itself is half-casting and this is probably why it doesn't get as much attention, it progresses casting at level 1 and has the following ability:



Modify Self (Ex): At 1st level and every three levels thereafter (at 4th, 7th, and 10th level), the shaper of form can gain one effect from the following list, achieved through applying shaping magic to her own body. The effect is permanent. The shaper of form can choose the same ability more than once—the effects of each ability stack with themselves. For example, a shaper of form who takes the resilience ability three times has a permanent +3 natural armor bonus to her Armor Class. These effects cannot be removed by any means short of a wish or miracle, and each use of one of those spells removes only a single effect of this ability (thus, multiple wishes must be used to eliminate multiple benefits).

Prowess: The shaper of form gains a +1 inherent bonus to a physical ability score (Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity).

Quickness: The shaper of form adds +10 feet to her base land speed.

Renaissance: The shaper of form changes race, gender, or general physical appearance. She cannot change type and no ability score adjustments occur as a result of the change. Thus, if the character is weak and becomes an orc, she becomes a weak orc. The shaper of form cannot choose to become a member of a race with a level adjustment.

Resilience: The shaper of form gains a +1 natural armor bonus.

Toughness: The shaper of form gains +10 hit points.


So at first level, you can reset your race to any LA +0 race that shares a type with you, keep all the stat bonuses of the previous race, and you don't even lose casting progression!?

To be fair, as with many such instances in D&D, the ability doesn't actually tell you what to do with any feats or skills that you would lose when losing racial HD, but there is some precedent for having a choice about what you keep.

In addition at levels 2 and 3, the class gives you Polymorph as an SLA. Being a 4th level spell, it's also very useful for early qualifications, especially in respect to Master Transmogrifist, which I have personally been struggling with lately!

Some useful races for this:
Monster Manual 5 has a few advanced Hobgoblins: Hobgoblin Warcaster, Hobgoblin Spellscourge monstrous humanoids -> Some anthropomorphic animals/Lupin/Muckdweller/Tibbit
Gloura has great stat adjustments and bard 7 casting: Fey -> Killoren/Duskling
Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3HD 0LA is great for early qualifications: monstrous humanoid

Presumably you can also take templates for stat adjustments and remove those after.

[Zarvistic]

It doesn't say you lose or gain any features of the races, so would it change anything other than the race attribute?

[daremetoidareyo]

It doesn't say you lose or gain any features of the races, so would it change anything other than the race attribute?

True dragon, here we come!!!

[Rebel7284]

It doesn't say you lose or gain any features of the races, so would it change anything other than the race attribute?

Being a certain race in D&D has certain benefits/drawbacks, and this class feature while overriding one of those benefits (your stats don't change), doesn't say anything about other features of the race. Therefore presumably you get any other racial features normally.


True dragon, here we come!!!

I thought about dragons since a few Wurmlings have a perfectly reasonable LA/HD/casting ratios. With that said, since you can only change to a LA+0 race, and the only LA+0 dragon that I know of is the Dragonwraugh Kobold, this becomes a little awkward since you would need to somehow get a first-level only feat mid-leveling.....

[loky1109]

I thought about dragons since a few Wurmlings have a perfectly reasonable LA/HD/casting ratios. With that said, since you can only change to a LA+0 race, and the only LA+0 dragon that I know of is the Dragonwraugh Kobold, this becomes a little awkward since you would need to somehow get a first-level only feat mid-leveling.....

Well... There is also this

Adult Incarnum Dragon
...
Level Adjustment: +0

[Doctor Despair]

Technically, you could become something with LA --, but a DM could rightfully say you're an NPC in that event, I suppose.

[Crake]

Well... There is also this

Except thats a sample statsheet, and thus doesnt hold precedence over the actual LA entry on the previous page which ranges from +2 to +5, before going to - for everything above juvenile.

[loky1109]

Except thats a sample statsheet, and thus doesnt hold precedence over the actual LA entry on the previous page which ranges from +2 to +5, before going to - for everything above juvenile.
Why do you think that sample doesn't hold precedence?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Get a high-stat race, then swap over to something with really low stats but good abilities (or access to abilities) otherwise.

Say, a gray elf turned into a RotD web kobold?

[Crake]

Why do you think that sample doesn't hold precedence?

Why do you think it DOES? A sample entry vs the actual statblock for the monster?

[Doctor Despair]

Get a high-stat race, then swap over to something with really low stats but good abilities (or access to abilities) otherwise.

Say, a gray elf turned into a RotD web kobold?

Or an anthrobat, then swap into kobold, take Dragonborn of Bahamut to swap a level 1 dex-based feat for Dragonwrought, then age up to venerable? +9 to wisdom at LA0; imagine rolling an 18, or doing point buy with that?

[loky1109]

Why do you think it DOES? A sample entry vs the actual statblock for the monster?

It is actual statblock for the monster, too. Even more statblock than "Level Adjustment: Wyrmling +2; very young +3; young +4; juvenile +5; others —."

Why does it? Because it's more specific.

[Crake]

It is actual statblock for the monster, too.

No, its a sample statblock for a specific creature, it literally says “Sample” in the heading

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you start as an LA-positive race, does that mean you still have the LA, or are you reduced to LA 0? Or do you actually have to take an LA -- race, since you can't have a level adjustment, and 0 is still a level adjustment?

[Saintheart]

If it allows you to shift race without altering the type, that would indicate you can go from human to the the orc/gnoll/other primitive humanoid that 3.0's Hexer is gated behind.

Also, speaking of Neanderthal, if the race shifts thus bringing with it no ability score changes but other attributes come across, then Neanderthal from human becomes mildly interesting: +1 to attack rolls with an array of simple-ish weapons and a +2 to Listen, Spot, and Survival.

[Doctor Despair]

If you start as an LA-positive race, does that mean you still have the LA, or are you reduced to LA 0? Or do you actually have to take an LA -- race, since you can't have a level adjustment, and 0 is still a level adjustment?

Huh. That's... actually a really good point. This and reincarnate are the only RAW means to change your actual race that I know of (and that one Kobold feat, haha). You would definitely erase your level adjustment. That opens up options. Start as a race with as much LA as possible based solely on big stat increases, then wipe the LA away but keep the stats.

I'd hold that the RAI of it is that LA 0 is not a level adjustment. It is a statistic in the column, but it is instructing you not to adjust the level. Additionally, I'd hold that, by RAW, you can take an LA -- race, but as you are now not a race suitable for PCs, you'd become an NPC.

Edit:

Rakshasa would be pretty neat. You've got 7RHD and LA7, but you cast as a 7th level sorcerer, so you qualify to take a Shaper of Form level at level 1. Then, you swap to Kobold and take the dragonborn template to shuffle your level 1 feat to Dragonwrought, and age yourself up to venerable. What does that give you?

Dragonborn Kobold
1. Shaper of Form (Dragonwrought)

+2 Str
+4 Dex
+8 Con
+5 Int
+5 Wis
+9 Cha

Arguably by Cwar rules you'd be essentially a commoner, losing the benefits of your class... Hm. I guess it's basically a racial hitdie at that point, but you can kinda get it back with the greater rite of draconic passage. I guess it'd be a glorified racial HD either way since you lose the racial casting you tried to advance. Cha+9 is pretty sweet for a sorcerer though.

Of course, you could do the same thing for a druid or cleric or what have you if you take an anthrobat from levels 1-6 and then swap it into a dragonborn kobold (wis+9)

[Anthrowhale]

This seems to be a natural complement to Tainted Spellcaster (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?588329-Temporary-Tainted-Spellcaster) for early entry tricks.

Another trick:

A Primordial Giant Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3/Werewolf 2 has ECL 7 qualifies for Ur-Priest

=> ECL 8 Primordial Giant Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3/Werewolf 2/Ur-Priest 1.
=> ECL 9 Primordial Giant Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3/Werewolf 2/Ur-Priest 1/Shaper of Form 1
=> ECL 7 Lupin(*) 1/Werewolf 2/Ur-Priest 1/Shaper of Form 1 (Ur-priest can requalified by noting that the save prereqs are easy. ~12K xp lost)
=> ECL 10 Lupin(*) 1/Werewolf 2/Ur-Priest 1/Shaper of Form 1/Ur-Priest 3
=> ECL 5 Lupin(*) Ur-Priest 1/Shaper of Form 1/Ur-Priest 3 (Curing Lycanthropy, ~33K XP lost)
=> ECL 10 Lupin(*) Ur-Priest 1/Shaper of Form 1/Ur-Priest 8

(*) The "Lupin" has a stat adjustments of Str+8, Dex+4, Con+2, Int+2, Wis+4, Cha+2 instead of the typical. You can freely substitute in any other single HD Monstrous Humanoid race.

This provides 9th level cleric spell access at 9th level although at a cost of ~45K xp. Since experience grows exponentially when you are underleveled, you would acquire 9th level spells faster than a more linear approach.

Edit: fixed issues with advancement.

[Rebel7284]

A Primordial Giant Half-Ogre Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale 3/Werewolf 2

Ooh! I like this! First of all, in my original post, I was assuming that templates were part of the race and thus would be reset too, but technically they are different things, so it probably works as you indicate here. Of course this also adds a weird corner case of potentially no longer qualifying for a template you have once you change race, but I guess that can be handled on a case by case basis!

I am a big fan of a werewolf turning into Lupin, excellent flavor/continuity.
Losing HD in two steps is also helpful for play instead of one massive change to ECL.

edit:
Although Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks , Spellcraft 8 ranks might make the built illegal at that ECL 4 point, but can be easily solved by curing Lycanthropy a level later.

[Segev]

The fact that Beholders don't have an LA and Elan are Aberrations makes this particularly intriguing. :smallcool:

[Beni-Kujaku]

There are two interesting points to consider: first, except for anthropomorphic animals (and ignoring the fact that "no level adjustment" may allow by RAW to morph into a beholder if you're an Elan Shaper of Forms), I don't think there is any race with more than one RHD with LA+0. And if you already have some RHD, it says nowhere that you lose it. Hell, it doesn't even say that you lose your previous LA, but even if you do, polymorphing from a rakshasa into a neraph (note that you can't polymorph into a kobold since a kobold isn't an outsider) would give a neraph with 7 Outsider RHD. I don't think there are many creatures whose ability scores alone are worth the Racial Hit Dice (considering you'd lose all racial abilities).
And second, you lose all your previous racial abilities. Trying to abuse going from a pixie to a Killoren would just mean you have a regular Fey with high Charisma, but no natural invisibility and no flight.

Apart from Gray Elf-> Kobold or something similar, I don't think the ability is extremely abuseable. The case of pixies is interesting, since they have really high stats for a low number of RHD, and is the best I can do if you lose your initial LA (of which I'm still not convinced).

I'm basing myself off of Reincarnate here, with Reincarnate explicitly saying that you lose a hit die if you have no class level, which implies that you keep your previous hit dice.


Or an anthrobat, then swap into kobold, take Dragonborn of Bahamut to swap a level 1 dex-based feat for Dragonwrought, then age up to venerable? +9 to wisdom at LA0; imagine rolling an 18, or doing point buy with that?

Anthrobat is a Monstrous humanoid, you'd have to morph into a lupin or a tibbit, not a kobold. I guess you could take cat feats then?

[Anthrowhale]

Although Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks , Spellcraft 8 ranks might make the built illegal at that ECL 4 point, but can be easily solved by curing Lycanthropy a level later.
Missed that, thanks :-)

Is there any more efficient approach XP-wise to end up with L9 spell access at ECL 9?

[Beni-Kujaku]

Missed that, thanks :-)

Is there any more efficient approach XP-wise to end up with L9 spell access at ECL 9?

If we're going for lycanthropy cure, then Simply playing a human lycanthrope (bear) with 8 animal RHD, one humanoid RHD, LA+2 and pretty high skills, then taking 5 levels of Ur-priest, then getting cured, and having the Ur-priest levels self-qualify. No need for complicated race-swapping.

[Gruftzwerg]

The fact that Beholders don't have an LA and Elan are Aberrations makes this particularly intriguing. :smallcool:

I had the same idea in the morning but didn't had the time to post.


You could get into Beholder Mage by lvl 7:
xxx 5 / SoF 1 / BM 1

The downside is that you then have to deal with the RHD.

To bypass this, dip a single lvl into Warshaper & bring SoF to lvl 4 to change your race back.
Now use morphic weapons to access your Eye Stalks.

So the approach with the least lvl that have to deal with the RHD would be:

(e.g. wizard) 5 / SoF 1 / BM 1 / SoF 4 / Warshaper 1

But this would also mean we lose access to the BM spells for a single lvl.

If we want to prevent this, we would need to deal with the RHD with one more lvl:

(e.g. wizard) 5 / SoF 1 / BM 1 / SoF 3 / Warshaper 1 / SoF 4

Downside is that we sole have access to the Spell Stalks when we are in a different form. So maybe go Incantatrix or Spelldancer with the remaining lvl to persist Polymorph/Shapechange.

[Doctor Despair]

And if you already have some RHD, it says nowhere that you lose it. Hell, it doesn't even say that you lose your previous LA, but even if you do, polymorphing from a rakshasa into a neraph (note that you can't polymorph into a kobold since a kobold isn't an outsider) would give a neraph with 7 Outsider RHD.

...

I'm basing myself off of Reincarnate here, with Reincarnate explicitly saying that you lose a hit die if you have no class level, which implies that you keep your previous hit dice.

Anthrobat is a Monstrous humanoid, you'd have to morph into a lupin or a tibbit, not a kobold. I guess you could take cat feats then?

Fair point on creature type; I'd apparently forgotten that part of it.

I've got a lot to unpack on the other parts though. I'm on mobile on my lunch break, so I apologize if this has a formatting error or isn't structured as clearly as I mean it to be.

First, I'd contest your reading of reincarnate wrt RHD. Specifically, the line you're referencing doesn't include text you think it does -- which is fair, because until this moment I ALSO thought that text was there. It says:


The subject’s level (or Hit Dice) is reduced by 1. If the subject was 1st level, its new Constitution score is reduced by 2. (If this reduction would put its Con at 0 or lower, it can’t be reincarnated). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

Compare reincarnate to the verbiage in raise dead:


Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

The Con loss in reincarnate is not replacing the HD. Reincarnate, a level 4 spell, is worse than raise dead in that regard. The Con loss is in addition to the HD loss. This would mean that, normally, you can't reincarnate a level 1 character (as you'd die from HD loss instantly) -- except that the ability to reincarnate a level 1 character is explicitly intended by the spell. This indirectly proves that you almost certainly gain RHD from your new race because the process would look like this:

1. Level 1 human fighter dies with 10 con
2. Reincarnate is cast; they reincarnate as a level 1 elf
3. Their HD goes to 0, and their Con is reduced to 8 (6 after racial mod); they die
4. Reincarnate is cast; they reincarnate as a level 1 bugbear
5. Their HD goes to 3 (2RHD, 1 class level), and their Con is reduced by 2 to 6 (8 after racial mod); they live!

Reincarnate checks what your level WAS, so if you were a level 1 character that reincarnated into a race with more RHD, you'd gain the RHD first, then lose either a level or HD.

Now, that only establishes that you do GAIN RHD; it doesn't necessarily establish that you LOSE RHD. However, nowhere in the spell does it say that you gain RHD; if we read (correctly) that they mean for you to gain RHD, that means that having RHD is a function of being that race (i.e., race is directly connected to RHD). If that's the case, then changing your race should cause you to LOSE RHD as well.

By that same logic, I'd also contest your claim that you don't lose LA. You change your race. LA comes with race. It doesn't say you keep it; it doesn't say you lose it. However, the source of the LA is the race, and if you're losing the race, I can't think of a single RAI reason why you'd keep the LA. You don't retain the benefits or RHD of your old race that justified it, nor does the LA line in your race indicate that you have an adjustment. Likewise, I can't think of a reason why reincarnating into a race WITH LA (e.g., human into gnoll) wouldn't GRANT you LA; you have benefits (RHD, ability mods, any racial abilities, natural attacks, etc) from your new race that (allegedly) merit adjustment, and the LA line in your race now indicates you should have an adjustment, so you'd almost certainly gain the LA. It would have been helpful if they'd said all this explicitly, but I suspect they thought saying that you changed your race was sufficient to indicate it.

[Rebel7284]

There are two interesting points to consider: first, except for anthropomorphic animals (and ignoring the fact that "no level adjustment" may allow by RAW to morph into a beholder if you're an Elan Shaper of Forms), I don't think there is any race with more than one RHD with LA+0. And if you already have some RHD, it says nowhere that you lose it.


RACIAL HD seems like an absolutely inherent part of a race to me. I can see a DM ruling otherwise for balance reasons of course, but as far as I can tell that would be 100% a houserule.



Hell, it doesn't even say that you lose your previous LA


It says you can't become a race with a level adjustment. If you keep your previous level adjustment, that phrase would be real weird. Again, certainly possible as a houserule, but I don't see a ton of rules support.



, but even if you do, polymorphing from a rakshasa into a neraph (note that you can't polymorph into a kobold since a kobold isn't an outsider) would give a neraph with 7 Outsider RHD. I don't think there are many creatures whose ability scores alone are worth the Racial Hit Dice (considering you'd lose all racial abilities).
And second, you lose all your previous racial abilities. Trying to abuse going from a pixie to a Killoren would just mean you have a regular Fey with high Charisma, but no natural invisibility and no flight.

Apart from Gray Elf-> Kobold or something similar, I don't think the ability is extremely abuseable. The case of pixies is interesting, since they have really high stats for a low number of RHD, and is the best I can do if you lose your initial LA (of which I'm still not convinced).


Even if you just use this for boosting your stats (such as the Pixie example), it's certainly still useful. And of course you want to avoid races where you lose more than you gain by changing race. :smallsmile:



I'm basing myself off of Reincarnate here, with Reincarnate explicitly saying that you lose a hit die if you have no class level, which implies that you keep your previous hit dice.


Reading reincarnate, it looks like you lose the level/HD after the new race is applied since this change is listed right after this:


First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.

[Gruftzwerg]

What happens if Dvati twins change race via SoF?
Can I spit my "single" character into 2 separate characters? Maybe even different races? ^^

[Anthrowhale]

If we're going for lycanthropy cure, then Simply playing a human lycanthrope (bear) with 8 animal RHD, one humanoid RHD, LA+2 and pretty high skills, then taking 5 levels of Ur-priest, then getting cured, and having the Ur-priest levels self-qualify. No need for complicated race-swapping.

It's very expensive this way though, since you need to go up to ECL 15 in the process. Ideally, we'd avoid the lycanthropy entirely as the LA+2 does nothing at all to help us with qualifications. The previous process is a max ECL9 approach giving 9th level spells. (Also, I think you need 9 levels of Ur-Priest.)

[daremetoidareyo]

Renaissance: The shaper of form changes race, gender, or general physical appearance. She cannot change type and no ability score adjustments occur as a result of the change. Thus, if the character is weak and becomes an orc, she becomes a weak orc. The shaper of form cannot choose to become a member of a race with a level adjustment.

Obviously, we’re optimising the wrong part.

The shaper of form can’t choose an LA race, but if he were dominated into using the ability by someone else, that other person could choose an LA race

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think that class ability just makes you extremely indecisive.

[Rebel7284]

Since I mentioned Master Transmogrifist, here is a build.

Frost folk (Frostburn 130)
Medium Monstrous Humanoid (Cold)
4 HD, LA +1
+4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma

ECL 10
HD 4/Bard 1/Shaper of Form 2/Master Transmogrifist 2 (+1 LA)
1. Spell Focus (Transmutation)
3. Momentary Alteration
Belt of Endurance: Great Fortitude
6. Eschew Materials
9. Flexible Mind (Dragon #326) -> Helps with skills for Sublime Chord

Savage Species Ritual to turn into a Human, thus losing 2 feats, but gaining one back from Human bonus feat.

ECL 5
Bard 1/Shaper of Form 2/Master Transmogrifist 2
1. Spell Focus (Transmutation)
3. Momentary Alteration
Belt of Endurance: Great Fortitude
H: Eschew Materials

ECL 10 again
Bard 1/Shaper of Form 2/Master Transmogrifist 7
1. Spell Focus (Transmutation)
3. Momentary Alteration
Belt of Endurance: Great Fortitude
H: Eschew Materials
6: Versatile Spellcaster
9. Heighten Spell

ECL 20
Bard 1/Shaper of Form 2/Master Transmogrifist 7/Sublime Chord 2/Shaper of Form +1/Fatespinner 4/Master Transmogrifist +3
1. Spell Focus (Transmutation)
3. Momentary Alteration
Belt of Endurance: Great Fortitude
H: Eschew Materials
6: Versatile Spellcaster
9. Heighten Spell
12. Surrogate Spellcasting
15. Minor Shapeshift
18. Free

[loky1109]

It isn't clear for me what happens with racial HD. I see how it could be "HD doesn't change".

[Anthrowhale]

Savage Species Ritual to turn into a Human...


A difficulty here is that you get average physical stats for a member of the species (i.e. 10). Shaper of Form's preservation of stats is nice.

[Doctor Despair]

It isn't clear for me what happens with racial HD. I see how it could be "HD doesn't change".

Racial HD are racial traits; they're listed among the "X as characters" line. You lose your old racial traits when you change your race.

[Rebel7284]

Another built focused on race changing:

Requires LA buyoff


Spawn template was stealth nerfed in Bestiary of Krynn p. 24 and can only be applied to humans and half-elves.

Desert Kobold-> Human
Sorcerer 6/Shaper of Form 1/Master Transmogrifist 10/X 3
1. Great Fortitude
3. Spell Focus (Transmutation)
6. Draconic Reservoir
H: Eschew Materials
9. Practiced Spellcaster
12. Surrogate Spellcasting
15. Minor Shapeshift
18. Free

Become a White Dragonspawn once you're a human and buy off the LA immediately (technically you're a few levels late, but eh?)

Sadly the stats are mediocre since you're inheriting Kobold stats, but you do get the human goodies on top of that and two free sorcerer levels.