death390
2023-02-03, 11:20 PM
I'm building a Rogue with a spellcasting archetype, Getting Sneak attack via magical trickster. Does anyone know of a Raw Way to get Debilitations working on spell attacks?
The wording on debilitating strikes is specific: " Trigger Your Strike hits a flatfooted creature and deals damage. You apply one of the following debilitations which last until the end of your next turn."
Because it specifies Strike i am under the impression it is limited to ONLY the Strike action, which means Spell attacks or even special attacks that don't include wording similar to "You make a strike" can't trigger it. Without a way to get debilitations it just makes Magical Trickster rogues even further behind standard rogues.
costing 2-3 actions for almost all spells and only getting 1 sneak attack out of them already puts the rogue further behind damage wise as long as you are keeping up on your attack and damage runes running 2 strikes is almost always better (i calc DPR at 50% for first hit 25% for the 2nd). Analyse weakness is useful on strike rogues but you don't have the actions for it on most magical tricksters, Poison weapon is only usable with weapons IE strikes (or possibly spiritual weapon?), and spreading your damage around for Bloody debilitations is already difficult with strikes but if you can't at ALL with spell attacks? . . .
The big "Benefit" of spell attacks is the damage is supposed to be frontloaded:
At level 20 (as if most games get that far?)
a level 20 cantrip (+32 to hit [Max Int wiz dedication]) is 10d4 or d6 + 4d6 SA average damage of 39/49 = DPR per action 19.5/24.5
2 strikes on the other hand. . . +34/29 to hit [20dex]
8d6+6 shortbow average damage of 34 +10% hit chance so DPR should be 37, basically the same as a cantrip SA
But the 2nd strike should have about 19 DPR for a net of 28 DPR per action for 2 actions.
but if you add debilitations it makes it no contest, 2 non-damage debilitations vs 1 would already be big.
but adding effective +3d6 persistent damage debilitations makes it so that Strike is Automatically better full stop.
The wording on debilitating strikes is specific: " Trigger Your Strike hits a flatfooted creature and deals damage. You apply one of the following debilitations which last until the end of your next turn."
Because it specifies Strike i am under the impression it is limited to ONLY the Strike action, which means Spell attacks or even special attacks that don't include wording similar to "You make a strike" can't trigger it. Without a way to get debilitations it just makes Magical Trickster rogues even further behind standard rogues.
costing 2-3 actions for almost all spells and only getting 1 sneak attack out of them already puts the rogue further behind damage wise as long as you are keeping up on your attack and damage runes running 2 strikes is almost always better (i calc DPR at 50% for first hit 25% for the 2nd). Analyse weakness is useful on strike rogues but you don't have the actions for it on most magical tricksters, Poison weapon is only usable with weapons IE strikes (or possibly spiritual weapon?), and spreading your damage around for Bloody debilitations is already difficult with strikes but if you can't at ALL with spell attacks? . . .
The big "Benefit" of spell attacks is the damage is supposed to be frontloaded:
At level 20 (as if most games get that far?)
a level 20 cantrip (+32 to hit [Max Int wiz dedication]) is 10d4 or d6 + 4d6 SA average damage of 39/49 = DPR per action 19.5/24.5
2 strikes on the other hand. . . +34/29 to hit [20dex]
8d6+6 shortbow average damage of 34 +10% hit chance so DPR should be 37, basically the same as a cantrip SA
But the 2nd strike should have about 19 DPR for a net of 28 DPR per action for 2 actions.
but if you add debilitations it makes it no contest, 2 non-damage debilitations vs 1 would already be big.
but adding effective +3d6 persistent damage debilitations makes it so that Strike is Automatically better full stop.