Long read comparisons on 5e vs other systems?

[Zuras]

Anybody know of some good long-read articles on the practical differences between 5e and other systems, from the standpoint of difficulties in porting/adapting adventures from one system to another?

Obviously there are plenty of examples of 1e, 2e and 3e adventures converted to 5e with relatively modest effort, but are there any articles out there discussing how difficult it would be to run The Wild Beyond the Witchlight using a B/X retroclone, or how running Rise of Tiamat or Storm King’s Thunder would be challenging when you hit the higher level content with a more simulationist combat system like GURPS, WFRP or BRP, and difficult to quantify in FATE (how do you differentiate the threat of an ogre vs a hill giant effectively?).

I tried googling for some articles, but without an unambiguous search term I came up with nothing. Have you come across such an article, or do you have any strong opinions on the subject?

For what it’s worth, noodling about this has led me to the conclusion that Curse of Strahd is considered the greatest D&D adventure of all time by so many because it’s the most universal. I can imagine running it in Fate, GURPS, or most OSR systems and delivering recognizably the same story as when run in 5e. I don’t have enough experience with other systems, but it seems like it would work fine with Warhammer Fantasy and Savage Worlds too.

[Unoriginal]

Anybody know of some good long-read articles on the practical differences between 5e and other systems, from the standpoint of difficulties in porting/adapting adventures from one system to another?

Obviously there are plenty of examples of 1e, 2e and 3e adventures converted to 5e with relatively modest effort, but are there any articles out there discussing how difficult it would be to run The Wild Beyond the Witchlight using a B/X retroclone, or how running Rise of Tiamat or Storm King’s Thunder would be challenging when you hit the higher level content with a more simulationist combat system like GURPS, WFRP or BRP, and difficult to quantify in FATE (how do you differentiate the threat of an ogre vs a hill giant effectively?).

I tried googling for some articles, but without an unambiguous search term I came up with nothing. Have you come across such an article, or do you have any strong opinions on the subject?

For what it’s worth, noodling about this has led me to the conclusion that Curse of Strahd is considered the greatest D&D adventure of all time by so many because it’s the most universal. I can imagine running it in Fate, GURPS, or most OSR systems and delivering recognizably the same story as when run in 5e. I don’t have enough experience with other systems, but it seems like it would work fine with Warhammer Fantasy and Savage Worlds too.

I mean no matter what system you use, you need to scrap off every single mechanical part entirely and replace it with the appropriate counterpart.

[JackPhoenix]

Converting adventures between systems generally means keeping the setting and story, and changing everything else, replacing monsters or NPCs with the closest equivalent (adjusting for difficulty as needed), changing mechanical stuff (like DCs for locks or target numbers for skill checks) to the mechanics used in the system you're converting to, and any finishing touches required (removing most +x items and generally reducing magic item loot when converting from 3.5 to 5e, taking into account differences in magic between systems...

Basically, keep the fluff, completely replace the crunch.

Also, while CoS is certainly the best adventure WotC published for 5e (which says just as much about the other official 5e adventures as it does about CoS itself), it's definitely not amongst the greatest adventures ever, though, of course, that's very subjective.

[Zuras]

I mean no matter what system you use, you need to scrap off every single mechanical part entirely and replace it with the appropriate counterpart.

Agreed, but the level of difficulty in determining what the appropriate counterpart mechanic could be varies wildly, doesn’t it? If I’m disappointed with the 5e version of Planescape or Spelljammer, for example, running them as a Savage Worlds or Fate campaign doesn’t seem like too big of lift, compared to converting all the 2nd edition D&D material I have to 5e. The tone of the setting/adventure doesn’t need to change, either.

On the other hand, even after doing the conversion to a system with more simulationist combat (Zweihander, for instance), the character of an adventure like Storm King’s Thunder has to change, as unprepared encounters with giants are far more deadly (and they weren’t a walk in the park even in 5e). Any module that has you fighting demon lords, archdevils or gods at the end pretty much needs an alternate victory scenario concocted.

[KorvinStarmast]

For what it’s worth, noodling about this has led me to the conclusion that Curse of Strahd is considered the greatest D&D adventure of all time by so many because it’s the most universal. Nope. It's good, but calling it the greatest of all time is a stretch. It caters to a particular taste in FRPG. Not everyone likes it.

Also, while CoS is certainly the best adventure WotC published for 5e (which says just as much about the other official 5e adventures as it does about CoS itself), it's definitely not amongst the greatest adventures ever, though, of course, that's very subjective. I may be biased, but Salt Marsh is pretty good.

[Rukelnikov]

Agreed, but the level of difficulty in determining what the appropriate counterpart mechanic could be varies wildly, doesn’t it? If I’m disappointed with the 5e version of Planescape or Spelljammer, for example, running them as a Savage Worlds or Fate campaign doesn’t seem like too big of lift, compared to converting all the 2nd edition D&D material I have to 5e. The tone of the setting/adventure doesn’t need to change, either.

On the other hand, even after doing the conversion to a system with more simulationist combat (Zweihander, for instance), the character of an adventure like Storm King’s Thunder has to change, as unprepared encounters with giants are far more deadly (and they weren’t a walk in the park even in 5e). Any module that has you fighting demon lords, archdevils or gods at the end pretty much needs an alternate victory scenario concocted.

You need to get the "idea" of the module and then port it to the other games system AND setting. In a way, imagine you are recasting the characters, try to think what the pourpose for the character in the campaign is, and have another character fill the same role in the new setting.

Let's say you wanna port something with a Demon Lord to make a Star Wars epic. Let's say Orcus is back again and he's causing undead outbreaks everywhere for reasons. His role in the campaign is being the catalyst that forces the party into action by putting the whole world, or maybe even the planes themselves at risk. It's large scale, and has a lot of mindless fodder.

Well, being a large scale threat, that's been known to have been a serious threat in the past, sounds like a part a powerful Sith spirit could fill, maybe could be played by let's say Exar Kun.

Now, he's gonna need a way to have hordes of mindless fodder to fill for Orcus hordes of undead. For instance, you could give Exar Kun the Starforge from KoToR (or something akin to it), granting him an endless supply of robots to play the part of the undead.

Or you could make an entirely new character that fits the setting and has the required abilities that can play the part of the one you need as translated to the setting (though IMO, if being a known evil is a requirement, creating a new character and saying "yeah, you've all heard from him dozens of times, always said to be extremely powerful", does not generate the same feeling as when that's actually the case).

In WoD, it could be a Demon, but doesn't need to be, maybe an old leech or a Mage with an exceptional level of Death magic can fill the part better.

[Unoriginal]

Also, while CoS is certainly the best adventure WotC published for 5e (which says just as much about the other official 5e adventures as it does about CoS itself), it's definitely not amongst the greatest adventures ever, though, of course, that's very subjective.


It caters to a particular taste in FRPG. Not everyone likes it.

I may be biased, but Salt Marsh is pretty good.

Yeah, it's entirely subjective.

Curse of Strahd, from what I remember, starts with one of the most brutal meatgrinders they put in any adventure this edition, then continues with having a BBEG that could crush the PCs at literally any moment if he ever took them seriously enough to bother.

Nothing wrong with enjoying that kind of campaigns, but it certainly can't objectively be called the best, due to how depending on people's personal tastes the enjoyment is.

[Zuras]

Yeah, it's entirely subjective.

Curse of Strahd, from what I remember, starts with one of the most brutal meatgrinders they put in any adventure this edition, then continues with having a BBEG that could crush the PCs at literally any moment if he ever took them seriously enough to bother.

Nothing wrong with enjoying that kind of campaigns, but it certainly can't objectively be called the best, due to how depending on people's personal tastes the enjoyment is.

Personally I’m a big fan of Storm King’s Thunder, but that was my first rpg campaign when I returned to the hobby after over a decade, so I’m likely biased. My players’ favorites have been Dragon Heist and Rime of the Frostmaiden, but it’s hard to know if that’s because those were the ones I best understood how to run, or because the writing was superior. Obviously those elements are also hard to separate, since a well written adventure is easier for a GM to understand, and puts them in position to be successful.

I have heard lots of criticism of the 5e adventures, but all of the major 5e adventures I’ve played or DMed were solidly written, barring the rail-road festival of the adventure included in the Spelljammer boxed set, and even that one was tonally evocative.