The Nine Alignments Handbook Thread Series

[Bartmanhomer]

I read the Nine Alignments Handbook Series Thread from a member of this forum who posted a separate thread of the nine alignments. It's very well written and very detailed in explaining how each of the 9 alignments represents and acts with their morals and ethics. It's a great series. What does everyone else think of the Nine Alignments Handbook Series Thread? :smile:

[Biggus]

Link to the thread(s)? I'm not readily finding it by searching the site.

[Bartmanhomer]

Here's one for the Lawful Good Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448799-To-March-Into-Hell-for-a-Heavenly-Cause-A-Lawful-Good-Handbook

The Lawful Neutral Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448817-My-Country-Right-Or-Wrong-A-Lawful-Neutral-Alignment-Handbook

The Lawful Evil Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil

The Neutral Good Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?449294-Selfless-Service-with-Blessings-to-All-A-Neutral-Good-Handbook-lt-3

The True Neutral Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?453304-Pursuit-of-Happiness-a-practical-Guide-to-playing-True-Neutral

The Neutral Evil Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?449418-By-NE-means-necessary-a-guide-to-Neutral-Evil

The Chaotic Good Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448507-Rules-are-for-Jerks-A-Chaotic-Good-Alignment-Handbook

The Chaotic Neutral Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448806-We-re-Rebels-Without-A-Clue-A-Chaotic-Neutral-Handbook

The Chaotic Evil Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?446414-No-Limits-No-Regrets-A-guide-to-the-Chaotic-Evil-alignment

[Eldonauran]

Those threads take me waaay back. Pretty good overall. It is a shame too many people bring their own real-life biases into the system and muddy the waters where alignment is concerned.

[Bartmanhomer]

Those threads take me way back. Pretty good overall. It is a shame too many people bring their own real-life biases into the system and muddy the waters where alignment is concerned.

I agree with you. There is so much hypocrisy that people have biases to mess up on alignments, unfortunately. :sigh:

[Crake]

The issue with alignments has always been and will always be when people use them as prescriptive and not descriptive.

Alignment should always be dictated by your actions, and not the other way around.

When you realise that, that alignments are merely a categorisation for characters, then you realise theres nothing wrong with alignments at all, theyre just another descriptor for your characters.

[Bartmanhomer]

The issue with alignments has always been and will always be when people use them as prescriptive and not descriptive.

Alignment should always be dictated by your actions and not the other way around.

When you realize that, that alignments are merely a categorization for characters, then you realize there's nothing wrong with alignments at all, there are just other descriptors for your characters.

Yes. I wish some people can understand what alignments are for and the main purpose for using alignments in the game. Too, I understand what alignments are for and they do serve a very reasonable purpose in the game and it has been very useful.

[bekeleven]

I feel like a big issue with alignments is their prevalence. I think I'm by-and-large neutral, and almost every person I know is neutral as well. Most people value their own comfort and self-interest pretty highly, and have vague ideas about wanting to do good, but they'll do unethical things regularly for convenience.

In games I run, alignments still exist, but most (90%?) non-outsiders are true neutral.

[Bartmanhomer]

I feel like a big issue with alignments is their prevalence. I think I'm by and large neutral, and almost every person I know is neutral as well. Most people value their comfort and self-interest pretty highly and have vague ideas about wanting to do good, but they'll do unethical things regularly for convenience.

In games I run, alignments still exist, but most (90%?) non-outsiders are truly neutral.

I see. Depending on the game most characters are neutral. However, there are a diversity of mixed alignments with all sorts of NPC and PC. I mean everybody has different alignments with different personalities and viewpoints and characters do change alignments sometimes throughout the game.

[Crake]

I feel like a big issue with alignments is their prevalence. I think I'm by-and-large neutral, and almost every person I know is neutral as well. Most people value their own comfort and self-interest pretty highly, and have vague ideas about wanting to do good, but they'll do unethical things regularly for convenience.

In games I run, alignments still exist, but most (90%?) non-outsiders are true neutral.

I think this is just a result of “sensitivity” being set too low. Kinda like a joystick’s deadzone, youre setting your alignment deadzone to be large enough that most people dont fall into any alignment categories.

Not criticising, just analyzing, but for me, entertaining the notion of doing good, but regularly ACTING unethically, pushes you more toward evil/chaos (depending on your actions), and doesnt at all balance out with mere thoughts of doing good.

I think we can almost all agree that most characters will fall into a very narrow cluster around the middle of the alignment chart, so how many end up being true neutral just depends on how far from the center you draw the line of being neutral or not.

[Bartmanhomer]

I think this is just a result of “sensitivity” being set too low. Kinda like a joystick’s deadzone, youre setting your alignment deadzone to be large enough that most people dont fall into any alignment categories.

Not criticising, just analyzing, but for me, entertaining the notion of doing good, but regularly ACTING unethically, pushes you more toward evil/chaos (depending on your actions), and doesnt at all balance out with mere thoughts of doing good.

I think we can almost all agree that most characters will fall into a very narrow cluster around the middle of the alignment chart, so how many end up being true neutral just depends on how far from the center you draw the line of being neutral or not.

I mean it's their game. If they want to run an almost all-neutral game, I won't stop them from playing.

[Biggus]

Here's one for the Lawful Good Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448799-To-March-Into-Hell-for-a-Heavenly-Cause-A-Lawful-Good-Handbook

The Lawful Neutral Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448817-My-Country-Right-Or-Wrong-A-Lawful-Neutral-Alignment-Handbook

The Lawful Evil Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil

The Neutral Good Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?449294-Selfless-Service-with-Blessings-to-All-A-Neutral-Good-Handbook-lt-3

The True Neutral Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?453304-Pursuit-of-Happiness-a-practical-Guide-to-playing-True-Neutral

The Neutral Evil Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?449418-By-NE-means-necessary-a-guide-to-Neutral-Evil

The Chaotic Good Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448507-Rules-are-for-Jerks-A-Chaotic-Good-Alignment-Handbook

The Chaotic Neutral Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?448806-We-re-Rebels-Without-A-Clue-A-Chaotic-Neutral-Handbook

The Chaotic Evil Handbook: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?446414-No-Limits-No-Regrets-A-guide-to-the-Chaotic-Evil-alignment

Wow, that's a lot of info. Thank you, I'll get reading.


The issue with alignments has always been and will always be when people use them as prescriptive and not descriptive.


That's the case for some classes, but not for Clerics or (especially) Paladins, no?

[tyckspoon]

That's the case for some classes, but not for Clerics or (especially) Paladins, no?

No. Clerics and Paladins (and similar classes that either have a prescriptive code or owe obedience to some other force that defines how they're expected to act) will have shared elements in their behavor due to sharing a common foundation - for Paladins, the Code of Conduct, for Clerics, the domains and portfolios of their deities - but that still doesn't mean their alignment tells them how to behave. They have their aligment because how they behave is consistent with that alignment. And even with those cases neither the dictates of the Code/their god nor their alignment actually determines their personality or their behavior. You can have five different Paladins that are all solidly Lawful Good and have five different valid, Code-compliant responses to a situation.

[Biggus]

You can have five different Paladins that are all solidly Lawful Good and have five different valid, Code-compliant responses to a situation.

Yes, but their responses are all constrained by having to fit into a specific definition of what lawful and good mean. That's prescriptive.

[tyckspoon]

Yes, but their responses are all constrained by having to fit into a specific definition of what lawful and good mean. That's prescriptive.

I mean.. I suppose? If you're taking the broadest sense of 'prescriptive'? Still doesn't have much to do with alignments - Paladins must do no evil, but it's not because they're Lawful Good, it's because their class rules say so. And even with Paladins that have perhaps the most restrictive explicit limits, it's mostly about things they -won't- do; for a 'prescriptive' claim, the Code provides very little predictive power about what a Paladin -will- do in any given situation. Like, to take the ever popular "attacked by bandits" situation: Does the Paladin kill them?

Yes, they have surrendered their right to protection by taking to banditry and harming others, and can be and SHOULD be removed as threats to those the Paladin bears a duty to.
No, after they have been defeated they no longer pose a threat to innocents and do not deserve death, but neither does the Paladin bear a particular responsibility to their lives.
No, and the Paladin is responsible for delivering them to a recognized authority to assess any further punishment.
No, and the Paladin actively attempts to guide them to rehabilitation and penance.

.. all very different courses of action and reasoning. All compatible with being Lawful Good and the Paladin Code. So.. what about that is prescriptive? What tells the player of the Paladin which of these his Lawful Good Paladin 'must do', which is what prescriptive alignment allegedly causes?