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Orak
2007-12-03, 03:47 PM
I was wondering what is the earliest level that you can get the class feature hide in plain sight?

Dhavaer
2007-12-03, 03:48 PM
You can get it at ECL 2 if you don't mind having it as a racial ability. Dark template, Tome of Magic.

Amiria
2007-12-03, 03:53 PM
Or ECL 1 if you can somehow convince the DM that you are flthy rich and can afford a Greater Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis as a 1st level character (22.000 gp, grants the aforementioned Dark template). :smallwink:

martyboy74
2007-12-03, 04:05 PM
As a human, with an 18 charisma, 4 ranks in Perform (Lyre), a masterwork lyre, skill focus (Perform (Lyre)), and Versatile Performer, taking 10s, it will only take you 17 years to get enough money for that. :smallamused:

Amiria
2007-12-03, 04:09 PM
Well, that build doesn't work. You don't qualify for Versatile Performer at 1st level. It requires 5 ranks in Perform. But you could instead take the Artist regional feat from the Player's Guide to Faerūn.

[hr]
Back to topic, copied from the List of Stuff (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=662842):

Hide in Plain Sight (or similar) (also see the "camouflage" section)

Ranger 17 - natural terrain
Scout 14 - natural terrain
Illusionist 15 (class variant), Unearthed Arcana - unconditional
Assassin 8, ecl 13 - within 10 feet of a shadow
Shadowdancer 1, ecl 8 - within 10 feet of a shadow
Nightsong Infiltrator 10, ecl 17 - natural terrain
Dark Lantern 9, ecl 14, Eberron: Five Nations - does not require natural terrain or concealment, in fact seems totally unconditional
Scar Enforcer 7, ecl 12, Races of Destiny - natural terrain
Wildrunner 5, ecl 10, Races of the Wild - natural terrain
Stalker of Kharesh 4, ecl 9, Book of Exalted Deeds, w/quarter cover or quarter concealment
Wilderness Rogue (UA)
Umbral Disciple 3, ecl 8, Magic of Incarnum, see text
Luiren Marchwarden 5, ECL 10, FR: Shining South - doesn't require cover or concealment, but only works in specific region
Shadar-Kai, race, Fiend Folio, ecl 4
Dark creature, template, Tome of Magic - doesn't require cover or concealment or terrain, but doesn't work in bright light
Shadow Creature, template, Lords of Madness - in shadowy regions only
Lurking Terror 3, ecl 8, Libris Mortis - requires cover or concealment
Paladin 6 (Shadow Cloak Knight substitution level), Champions of Valor web enhancement - near shadows
Justice of Weald and Woe 9, ecl 15, FR: Champions of Ruin - natural terrain
Planar Touchstone (The Veil), feat, Planar Handbook - near shadow
Hellbreaker 1, ecl 6, Fiendish Codex II, in any kind of darkness, not called "hide in plain sight"
Shadowspy 9, ecl 13, Complete Champion, in area of sunlight
Sentinel of Bharrai 5, ecl 10, Book of Exalted Deeds, within 10' of natural terrain

Special mention
Shadowcraft Mage 1, ecl 8, Races of Stone - constant ability, provides partial concealment, allows hide checks
Collar of umbral metamorphosis, item, tome of magic - gives the Dark Creature template (see above)
Ranger 17 or Scout 14, class variant, Cityscape Web Enhancement, Hide in Plain Site in any urban environment

Orak
2007-12-03, 04:48 PM
Thanks for all the help. The collar of Umbral Metamorphasis seems like the best route. Though coming up with the 22k might be a little hard (currently rogue3/ranger2)

Person_Man
2007-12-03, 10:07 PM
1st level Warlock or Dragonfire Adept. Here's how (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57352).

Chronos
2007-12-03, 11:20 PM
1st level Warlock or Dragonfire Adept. Here's how.Do you have to have your darkness up in order to use those feats? Because if so, it removes a lot of the advantage of Hide in Plain Sight: Sure, your enemies will have a hard time pinpointing you, but they'll be able to tell you're there, and just aim some area of effect spell at the globe of shadowy illumination.

Person_Man
2007-12-04, 09:26 AM
Do you have to have your darkness up in order to use those feats? Because if so, it removes a lot of the advantage of Hide in Plain Sight: Sure, your enemies will have a hard time pinpointing you, but they'll be able to tell you're there, and just aim some area of effect spell at the globe of shadowy illumination.

You must be within 10 feet of magical darkness in order to use Blend into Shadows.

So you can't just walk up to a camp of enemies in broad daylight, because they would see your globe of darkness approaching them. But you could just Hide as normal, using cover or concealment from terrain or structures. Also note that magical darkness and regular shadowy illumination are indistinguishable from each other in most cases. So you can just walk up to a group of enemies in a cave/dungeon/etc, and they won't notice the globe of darkness surrounding you unless they have some special means of doing so.

But the real benefit is that you can Hide in Plain Site in combat, every round, as a Swift Action, while maintaining 20% concealment around you, all day. That's pretty darn potent, especially at first level. With the Darkstalker feat and a high Hide check, you pretty much can't be targeted by anything except for area of effect attacks. You can even cast Darkness on an object instead of yourself (maybe a mundane rock that you carry around with you all day and then drop just before you Hide in Plain Site the first time), so they can't track your general movement either.

Chronos
2007-12-04, 03:38 PM
Also note that magical darkness and regular shadowy illumination are indistinguishable from each other in most cases. So you can just walk up to a group of enemies in a cave/dungeon/etc, and they won't notice the globe of darkness surrounding you unless they have some special means of doing so.I dunno, the standard interpretation seems to be that the "shadowy illumination" produced by a darkness spell isn't actually as dark as true darkness, like what you'd get in a cave deep underground. And even if it is, anything with darkvision (like, say, almost everything that lives in those caves) should notice it immediately, since magical darkness is impenetrable to darkvision. It might be fine for the first level or two, but after that, carrying around a magical darkness effect like that is just asking to get Glitterdusted.

Cuddly
2007-12-04, 03:42 PM
That, and a perfect orb of shadowy illumination would bounce around exactly how you moved. It'd be hilarious.

Heliomance
2007-12-06, 07:50 PM
Level 5. Here's how. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=491801)