Need some help with a Favored Soul

[Dhoule]

Hello there.

I'm playing in a campaign as a conjurer wizard with another three people and, due to a fifth person finally leaving the group (the tank), I've decided to change my PC to a Favored Soul. I've been having a lot of fun crippling the enemies with my spells, but that won't help if the team lacks muscle, and it clearly does right now. The other PCs are:

- A Fighter 4/Wizard 3, going towards a Bladesinger from Races of Faerun. Very unoptimized, he could pack much more punch than he does, but it is what it is.
- A Rogue 7, currently sneak attacking almost exclusively from distance.
- A Ranger 7, focused on attacking with his bow. The worst part comes from the DM interpretation of full attacks working only on melee so, even though the Ranger could already deliver 2 or more arrows each round, he won't, unless he uses his feat Rapid shot, which grants him only one extra attack.

I've tried to make the DM understand how underpowered this will end up making the ranger, but even my fellow players agree with him, so there's not much I can scratch from there.

With my wizard, I've been trying to stall/hinder the enemies, with mild success so far. I knew my PC was much more optimized than the others, but so long as I wasn't "stealing the show" with the kills, I didn't mind that too much. Now it worries me a bit that with an optimized Favored Soul focused on self-buffing and close combat, I will outshine the others, something I wouldn't want to do. But we *need* to pack more punch, or we'll die as soon as DR starts coming into play.

So I've got most of the PC set. A Human Favored Soul of Torm, using a greatsword.

Stats:

STR: 15
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 14

Feats:

- Improved initiative
- Power attack
- ???
- ???
* Considering Leap Attack (without Pounce, though, and a base bonus of -1 to Jump, unless I invest heavy on that skill), Extra Spell (because six is not enough!), Augment Healing, Blooded, Improved Toughness, and probably Force of Personality later on. Nymph's Kiss was banned, so there's that. I don't want to go down the DMM route (I know I'll already outshine the rest of the cast, I don't want to humiliate them). I don't want to go Cleric. I know it's a stronger class, but thinking about which spells to prepare was one of the few bothersome things I had to deal with the wizard, and I wanted a smaller spell pool. Spontaneous cleric is also banned.

Spells:

1 - Protection from Evil, Sign, Spider Hand, Updraft, Magic Missile (through Gloves of the Starry Sky). Considering Lesser Vigor (DM isn't a fan of wands), Resurgence, Divine Favor (its bonuses overlap with the ones given by spells from higher levels), Shield of Faith (its bonuses still overlap with Protection from Evil), Conviction and maybe even Comprehend Languages for roleplaying.
2 - Tykhe's Touch, Close Wounds, Bull's Strength. Considering Silence (not 100% sure about Saving Throws with Illusion and my DM...), Spider Legs, Spiritual Weapon (probably better from level 8 onwards), Elation and Divine Insight.
3 - Dispel Magic, Prayer, maybe Fireball (again, through equipment... Even if the Reflex save is really low, 14, it's still some damage in a big area, which we're lacking right now). Considering Magic Circle against Evil, Mass Resist Energy, Holy Storm (remember how I talked about area damage?), Blindsight; Knight's Move and Magic Vestment will be more useful from level 8 onwards.

No Complete Champion, Mage or Scoundrel allowed; no Races of Destiny, Stone, Dragon or Wild; no Champions of Valor or Ruin, no Dragon Magic, Drow of the Underdark, Dungeonscape, Forstburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Horror, and any Dragon magazine allowed.

And that's all. As you see, it's pretty much fleshed out. I just wanted some advise on what feats and spells would you recommend, if you had any other suggestions and such. Thanks!

[lylsyly]

If you can switch your WIS and CHA scores I would say go Cleric. Better Armor, Better Spell Access. And Domains! You could actually go strictly core and still outshine the rest of the party if you don't tone it down.

[Dhoule]

If you can switch your WIS and CHA scores I would say go Cleric. Better Armor, Better Spell Access. And Domains! You could actually go strictly core and still outshine the rest of the party if you don't tone it down.
Thanks! But I said I didn't want to go Cleric. I know it's better than FS, but I still want to play a FS. I'd consider trying out a spontaneous cleric if there was a choice, but I don't have that option, so I'd rather stick to the FS.

[Maat Mons]

If no one in your group wants to be a front-liner, summons are another option.

If you have access to Dragonlance Campaign Setting, the Mystic class has a lot in common with Favored Soul.

If you stick with Favored Soul, and Player’s Handbook II is allowed, Deity’s Favor is a good ACF.

[Dhoule]

If no one in your group wants to be a front-liner, summons are another option.

If you have access to Dragonlance Campaign Setting, the Mystic class has a lot in common with Favored Soul.

If you stick with Favored Soul, and Player’s Handbook II is allowed, Deity’s Favor is a good ACF.

No Dragonlance Campaign Setting, I'm afraid. We're playing in Forgotten Realms, and that's the only Campaign Setting allowed.

That being said, I did forget to mention that I switched Weapon Focus and Specialization for Deity's favor already. For that matter, learning at least one quick spell of each level (like Close wounds or Knight's move) will be a great deal.

And it's not that no one else in the group wants to be a front-liner. The gish is very much so invested in that. But he's built his PC with the idea of being elusive, pumping his AC, without caring about his HP (0 CON) and his damage output, which is really low. It could have been different, if he wanted to. He could've gone Duskblade 3/Fighter 2/Bladesinger 2, and he'd be a decent menace with a few tweaks. But he's "old-school", so to say. So, even if his PC is lacking, and he's realizing it now, he won't make any retroactive changes now.

[RexDart]

I was just looking up Swift and Immediate Cleric spells, as it happens. If you're Good-aligned, Grace might be a good one to take. +10' speed is nice, as I assume you're probably wearing heavy armor? And +2 Dex will help AC and Reflex saves a bit.

Edit: I forgot Favored Souls only have Medium armor proficiency because my own Favored Soul also had two levels of Fighter. Which you may want to consider here, but it does make a class with already-slow spell progression even slower.

[Anthrowhale]

For your Bladesinger wannabe, are they (and the DM) amenable to the retraining/rebuilding rules in PHBII? They are official.

For your class, have you considered spontaneous druid (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) instead? That provides lots of frontliner potential in a favored soul like format.

In terms of FS spells, you might consider Sense Weakness, Brambles, Cloud of Knives at level 2. At level 3, Girallon's Blessing and Shivering Touch are notable.

[Dhoule]

I was just looking up Swift and Immediate Cleric spells, as it happens. If you're Good-aligned, Grace might be a good one to take. +10' speed is nice, as I assume you're probably wearing heavy armor? And +2 Dex will help AC and Reflex saves a bit.

Edit: I forgot Favored Souls only have Medium armor proficiency because my own Favored Soul also had two levels of Fighter. Which you may want to consider here, but it does make a class with already-slow spell progression even slower.
Can you imagine Grace being a swift spell completely skipped over me? It's a small buff, but still nice. That being said, the fact that it's a buff makes me wary about it. What I really like about Knight's move, for example, is that you could justify using it multiple times an encounter and, by doing so, you keep giving yourself back some nice temp. HP you might've lost in the meantime. Grace, though? After the first casting, what would be the point? Sure, you're giving yourself some temp HP as a swift action, but most of the spell is lost in the process.

And even though I'm only proficient with Medium armor, I've managed to convince the DM to allow me to use an elven darkleaf full plate armor, which I can use as a medium armor. Not as good as mithril, but it's cheaper.


For your Bladesinger wannabe, are they (and the DM) amenable to the retraining/rebuilding rules in PHBII? They are official.

For your class, have you considered spontaneous druid (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) instead? That provides lots of frontliner potential in a favored soul like format.

In terms of FS spells, you might consider Sense Weakness, Brambles, Cloud of Knives at level 2. At level 3, Girallon's Blessing and Shivering Touch are notable.

I could suggest to both my fellow player and the DM to retrain his PC, and I think the DM might be even more open to it than the player himself, even without the rules in PHBII. Sadly, it'd be probably pointless (I ended up taking this decision of giving up on my wizard and creating a new PC after discussing it with him). Honestly, the only way I see him making any changes is if his PC dies and he makes a new one, and I don't think he'll willingly sacrifice himself for it.

Spontaneous druid will likely fall under the same issue as the Spontaneous cleric. My DM isn't a big fan of Unearthed Arcana. Also, I'm more familiar with the cleric spell list now than with the druid one, so in any case I'd have to start over from 0, and I can't bear doing that.

Lastly, about the spells: Sense weakness is from Eberron, so almost certainly not allowed. Brambles and its bigger brother are good spells, but I'm not interesed in fighting with wood weapons. Cloud of knives is on my list, and I'm still unsure whether to go with Spiritual weapon or that one for some nice "free" attacks. Shivering touch is from Frostburn, not allowed. And Girallon's Blessing has always caught my eye, but I'm not sure how to make use of those two extra arms, aside from the claw attack (and carrying a shield that's already "animated").

[Anthrowhale]

Also, I'm more familiar with the cleric spell list now than with the druid one, so in any case I'd have to start over from 0, and I can't bear doing that.

Eggynack's guide (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) may be helpful if you want to look into it.



Brambles and its bigger brother are good spells, but I'm not interesed in fighting with wood weapons.

If you can use Duskwood (Magic of Faerun), you get a half-weight wooden alternative for any metallic weapon without compromising performance. It's spendy (+1500 gp), but potentially in budget.


Cloud of knives is on my list, and I'm still unsure whether to go with Spiritual weapon or that one for some nice "free" attacks.

Cloud of Knives looks better if you optimize since it's attack bonus = caster level, which may be much higher than character level. However, you need to have some additional damage rider, like sneak attack to be sure to penetrate damage resistance.


And Girallon's Blessing has always caught my eye, but I'm not sure how to make use of those two extra arms, aside from the claw attack (and carrying a shield that's already "animated").
Well you can 2, 3, or 4-hand a weapon, dealing x1.5, x2, or x2.5 strength bonus damage. Also, if you have a touch attack spell then you can precast multiple times, hold the touch, and walk into combat ready to deliver up to 4 touch attacks in a single round.

[Dhoule]

Eggynack's guide (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) may be helpful if you want to look into it.


If you can use Duskwood (Magic of Faerun), you get a half-weight wooden alternative for any metallic weapon without compromising performance. It's spendy (+1500 gp), but potentially in budget.

Cloud of Knives looks better if you optimize since it's attack bonus = caster level, which may be much higher than character level. However, you need to have some additional damage rider, like sneak attack to be sure to penetrate damage resistance.

Well you can 2, 3, or 4-hand a weapon, dealing x1.5, x2, or x2.5 strength bonus damage. Also, if you have a touch attack spell then you can precast multiple times, hold the touch, and walk into combat ready to deliver up to 4 touch attacks in a single round.

Might try to look into the druid for the next PC, not this one. I already made up my mind on the Favored Soul, and I don't want to change the day before the next session ^^u

About Magic of Faerun, it is indeed an allowed book, and I could in theory go for it. But it's hard to think of a reason to go for a wooden greatsword instead of a regular one. I could maybe see it if I was playing as said druid, but in this case, it just seems a very "cheesy" choice. I'll give it a thought, though.

Cloud of knives makes hitting targets easier, but the damage output is scarce in comparison. Spiritual weapon can deal more damage, and the accuracy can also improve somewhat with Divine Power. Still, at this level is pretty much a toss for me.

Where does it state that handling a weapon with more than two hands keeps the multiplier going higher? I did not know about that. Not really interested in touch attacks for this build, though, as the DC is abysmal.

[Anthrowhale]

Where does it state that handling a weapon with more than two hands keeps the multiplier going higher?

Savage Species page 42.

[Particle_Man]

If the ranger is elven or half elven, given the DM's ruling, maybe Arcane Archer is an option for them? Then they could attach an arcane spell to the arrow, and given that full ranged attacks are off the table, it wouldn't hurt to have to do this as a standard action.

Anyhow, I would also support summoning monsters to die horribly while your PCs do their thing. Weak summoned monsters can be a speed bump and flank provider and don't outshine the main characters.

[Dhoule]

If the ranger is elven or half elven, given the DM's ruling, maybe Arcane Archer is an option for them? Then they could attach an arcane spell to the arrow, and given that full ranged attacks are off the table, it wouldn't hurt to have to do this as a standard action.

Anyhow, I would also support summoning monsters to die horribly while your PCs do their thing. Weak summoned monsters can be a speed bump and flank provider and don't outshine the main characters.

It'd be a nice idea, but I think Ranger's player is already set on going full Ranger. Why? IDK, but that's the case. She hasn't felt yet the lack of a full attack, she still deals a decent damage. We'll see what happens later on, though.