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AOKost
2023-02-16, 06:10 PM
I've been tinkering with a race that I'm kinda wanting to play, and while I know it's powerful, I don't know what kind of CR / level adjustment to give it.. I don't have much of a description for them yet, but I went through many races making choice picks of things I liked through Pathfinder races, and this is what I've come up with.. I was trying to make something very magic / craft / stealthy oriented, and while the first set of abilities are those I want, the latter two sets are far less 'necessary':

Abilities: –2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma: Descended from ancient humans who were forever changed by the harsh lands in the depths of the earth, munavris have exceptional abilities. (This is an amazing ability spread, I know... I'd be willing to cut out the Con, Wisdom and Charisma bonuses during PEACHing... It's just really nice)

Size: Munvari are Small creatures and thus gain a +1 size bonus to their AC and attack rolls, but suffer a –1 penalty to their CMD and on combat maneuver checks, a +2 size bonus on Fly checks, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks. (Nothing really special here other than the bonus to Fly)

Pixieling: Some munvari never grow any larger than a house cat. These pixielings, as they are called by their Small-sized cousins are Tiny. This doesn’t change the munvari’s Ability scores, but it does reduce its base speed to 10 ft. but does not reduce Flight speed. Like other tiny creatures, pixielings take up a space of 2-1/2 feet by 2-1/2 feet, with a reach of 0. They gain a +2 size bonus to AC and attack rolls, but suffer a -2 penalty to CMB and CMD. Finally, being Tiny grants pixielings a +8 racial bonus on Stealth checks. (This is intended to be an "alternate racial trait" but also something that I'd be taking)

Base Speed: Slow; Munvari have a base speed of 20 feet, and their speed is never modified by encumbrance or armor. (Pretty basic, but I thought about removing the "..speed is never modified by encumbrance or armor." because as a flying race, they shouldn't be flying around in too heavy of armor... I'm imagining Chain Shirts as their 'standard' armor, but of course they would have to become proficient with light armor in the normal ways)

Flight: Munvari have a fly speed of twice their base land speed with average maneuverability. Having a natural flight speed gives Munvari a +8 racial bonus to all Fly checks. (Not too much to see here... I could even reduce the maneuverability without much fuss)

Senses: Munavris have Darkvision 120 feet. This works in magical darkness and deeper darkness. Furthermore, they have low-light vision. (This is one of the stronger abilities when it comes to senses... Darkvision that sees through magical darkness and deeper darkness can potentially be game breaking... I'm open to thoughts and suggestions.. I could be persuaded to reduce the distance of the Darkvision... I'm keeping low-light vision as it's basically never an issue..)

Soul Gems (Ex): The mind of a munvari is as sharp as that of any flesh-and-blood soul, but it is more portable. The animating, vital principle of a munvari — its will, its personality, and its mind—are retained in one or (for an extra 8,000 gp) more soul gems. These are the elements that retain an individual’s spirit or soul, and memories, and their destruction means the true death of that munvari. It can be raised from the dead as a human generally is. Soul gems can be taken from a dead munvari and read by others. This is a lengthy process and viewed with some alarm by most, since it is akin to peering into the most private details of a creature’s life. Installing an existing, used soul gem in a munvari requires at least one week for the recipient to remember and understand the results. The process is dangerous, requiring a Fortitude save (DC 10 + one-half level of dead munvari + Cha modifier of dead munvari) to succeed. At the GM's discresion, the soul gem taken from another munvari may give skill bonuses, feats, or special abilities. (This is super thematically exciting and I absolutely love it... It's something I'd want to keep basically intact)

Cosmic Mind (Ex): A Munvari gets a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge and Spellcraft checks. A Munvari spellcaster who would store spells in a spellbook or familiar instead stores those spells in its mind (but must expend the normal resources to learn new spells) in it's soul gem. This ability gives them 1 mana per level. (This is also something that I super love and want to keep basically as is)

Healing Factor (Ex): A Munvari has a greater form of Fast Healing granting healing each round equal to 1 / 4 levels (minimum 1) + Con Mod (minimum 0). They also regrow any lost limbs in 1d4 days. (This is likely one of the more 'powerful' abilities, as it scales.. but it shouldn't be too terrible.. Someone focused on Con could make a huge impact, but if we take the bonus granted from Abilities, that's not as much of an issue.. Unfortunately, Con often gets dumped for other stats that are usually considered more important for a particular build.. I could modify this so that those that take Rage and the like don't get even more healing when they Rage... but this race isn't really meant for raging, or melee for that matter)

Eldritch Blast (Spl): Munvari are so much a part of magic, they have an inherent understanding and use of Eldritch blast special ability. They deal 2d6 points of damage, and follow all the normal rules of Eldritch Blast. This stacks if they decide to purchase it as they level up. (One of my absolutely favorite class abilities... I figured if this race is to have a level adjustment / high CR that it'd give them an option for games where they start off with basically no weapon proficiencies (my current game)).

Repletion (Su): A munvari can sustain his body without need of food or water. If he spends 1 mana point, he does not need to eat or drink for 24 hours. (Unless it's a plot device, this should never come into play and is basically here for thematic purposes)

Long-Lived (Ex): Munvari live for thousands of years and only die from 'outside circumstances'; they gain no benefit or penalty from aging and are immune to magical aging effects. (As with Repletion, this likely will never come into any actual use, and as it grants no bonuses, or penalties, seems really very neutral)



The following are what aren't necessary, but I thought would be thematically fitting:

Spell Resistance: A munavri possesses an amount of spell resistance that’s equal to 10 + her level. (Spell resistance is _always_ nice, unless you have to resist literally everything, including benificial effects... but I digress.. Very powerful, but not really necessary)

Fine Hard Scales (Ex): A Munvari gains a +1 natural armor bonus. (Natural armor is always nice, but it doesn't really help at such a low number, especially for a small/tiny race.. fun to think about though)

Magical Savant: Some munvari are natural mana conduits. They gain a +1 bonus to the DC of spells they cast that have the abjuration, illusion, or language-dependent descriptor or that create glyphs, symbols, or other magical writings, as well as the specific spells mentioned here. They also gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against such spells. Munvari with this trait and a Charisma score of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities (the caster level is equal to the user’s character level): persistent — comprehend language, detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, read magic, and unseen servant. (Now this I had a hard time with... While it's very thematically fitting for what I want, for those that want, Mage Hand and Unseen Servant can both easily be abused... But I see them more as being used 'in the shop' to help them with crafting.. This alone could be said to be worthy of a CR / Level adjustment increase..)

Gifted Craftsmen: Due to their skill at crafting items of all kinds, Munvari pay 10% less when creating magic items. (Unless you're super minmaxing to reduce the cost of making items, this is only somewhat useful.. In games where it's not allowed, it's totally useless)

Creative Craftsmanship: Munvari gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and skill rolls with weapons, tools, and vehicles they crafted, add a +1 bonus to caster level when using any item they created, and reduce armor check penalty while wearing armor they made by 2. Additionally, they increase income earned with Perform and Profession skills by 10%. (As with Gifted Craftsmen, this is a very hit and miss ability... though really nice)

Stalker: Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth get a +2 racial bonus. (Simple bonuses... I don't see a problem)

Silent Hunter: Munvari are renowned for their subtlety and skill. Munvari with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5 and can make Stealth checks while running at a –20 penalty (this number includes the penalty reduction from this racial trait). (This could be super beneficial for anyone trying to 'snipe and hide' which I'm wanting to do)

Voice in the Darkness: Prerequisite(s): Charisma 13+. Characters in the Underworld or on the Shadow Plane learn to do so in dim light or no light at all. As long as they are in dim light or darker conditions, characters with this trait gain a +2 bonus on Stealth checks. (With the Charisma Prerequisite, even being relatively low, isn't too bad.. and as I altered the original from including Intimidation, not too OP I would think..)

Burst (Su): Three times per day as a swift action, a munvari can put on a burst of speed to increase his speed by 10 feet, plus 10 feet per four character levels beyond 1st, to a maximum increase of 30 feet at 9th character level and higher. These bursts of speed are considered a competence bonus to the munvari’s base speed. A burst of speed lasts 3 rounds. (This is very hit and miss, and I only included it because I want to make use of Quick Craftsman, if it's even something that will be allowed... which it likely will, but again, very hit and miss)

Quick Craftsman (Ex): Some munvaris are swifter with their hands than their feet. A munvari with this trait reduces the time required for all item creation (whether via skill or feat) by half. This uses uses of Burst. (Only useful if Crafting is available in the campaign... and then it's debatable just how useful it is..)


So, that's what I've got... I'd love to

Beni-Kujaku
2023-02-16, 06:56 PM
First: this should probably be in the Homebrew forum instead of here.

If there is a reason why it is here: That is an interesting race. I don't see much that is inherently broken, except of course the "the soul gem can give feats and skills of a deceased Munvari". That absolutely cannot be kept as is without a clarification, and a limit on usage. That's absolutely "something for nothing", which shouldn't be a thing. At most "At the DM's discretion, a soul gem can grant various bonuses on skills and/or feats. These bonuses slowly consume the memory stored in the soul gem. A character can at most use these bonuses for one minute per hit die of the deceased Munvari, with each use counting for at least one minute."

A "mana point" is not a thing in D&D 3.5. If you want to be its own thing, no problem, but if you want it to be useable elsewhere, you should precise how and for what.

Decreasing crafting cost and time isn't negligible, it's actually quite useful and can potentially break WBL guidelines. That said, since crafting is mostly done in downtime, I don't see how linking the reduction in crafting time to a mostly combat-centric ability makes sense. Better make it a constant reduction, or have it affect Burst in a much longer timeframe (If the Munvari creates an item with the reduced time, they can't use Burst during the creation nor for one week after it's finished).

You didn't mention the type of the creature. Humanoid? Fey? Living Construct?

Everything about the class is very powerful, from stats to abilities. I'd say it's at least a LA+3 race (+1 for stats and flying, +1 for Fast Healing and miscellaneous abilities, +1 for the stackable Eldritch Blast), and even a +4 if you add the facultative traits (no change for the pixieling, lower speed is a good price imo for a smaller size category.

AOKost
2023-02-16, 07:58 PM
First: this should probably be in the Homebrew forum instead of here.

You're absolutely right... this was my fault as I'm mostly in the 3.5/PF forums and forget there's a Homebrew... Truly sorry about that!


If there is a reason why it is here: That is an interesting race. I don't see much that is inherently broken, except of course the "the soul gem can give feats and skills of a deceased Munvari". That absolutely cannot be kept as is without a clarification, and a limit on usage. That's absolutely "something for nothing", which shouldn't be a thing. At most "At the DM's discretion, a soul gem can grant various bonuses on skills and/or feats. These bonuses slowly consume the memory stored in the soul gem. A character can at most use these bonuses for one minute per hit die of the deceased Munvari, with each use counting for at least one minute."

Those are some very good suggestions... I was thinking about granting a +2 'racial' bonus any skill the 'dead' munvari had more than 5 ranks in, and giving a limited amount of use on any Feats available based on the dead munvari's level.. but that's also why I said it was at the GM's discression.. How about this as a compromise, limit it to a number of skills equal to the dead munvari's Intelligence modifier, and the GM decides what Skills are available to get that juicy +2 from XD Maybe I should include something along the lines of you can only have so many Soul Gems at once, maybe no more than 1 / 4 levels?


A "mana point" is not a thing in D&D 3.5. If you want to be its own thing, no problem, but if you want it to be useable elsewhere, you should precise how and for what.

Simply put, replace "mana" with "power" and it's the same thing. The game I'm building this for uses 'mana' as a universal power source for all magic and psionics, using Skill Ranks to determine what level of spells from what schools you can cast..


Decreasing crafting cost and time isn't negligible, it's actually quite useful and can potentially break WBL guidelines. That said, since crafting is mostly done in downtime, I don't see how linking the reduction in crafting time to a mostly combat-centric ability makes sense. Better make it a constant reduction, or have it affect Burst in a much longer timeframe (If the Munvari creates an item with the reduced time, they can't use Burst during the creation nor for one week after it's finished).

WBL is a concept that dooesnt really play well with the campaign world that this will be used in.. Maybe Wealth by Game day would be a better concept and even then, it doesn't really apply to this campaign..


You didn't mention the type of the creature. Humanoid? Fey? Living Construct?

As I didn't go through the other races, I think I'll stick with 'human' as a 'base' but no extra skill ranks or Feats...


Everything about the class is very powerful, from stats to abilities. I'd say it's at least a LA+3 race (+1 for stats and flying, +1 for Fast Healing and miscellaneous abilities, +1 for the stackable Eldritch Blast), and even a +4 if you add the facultative traits (no change for the pixieling, lower speed is a good price imo for a smaller size category.

I was honestly thinking LA +2 based on Noble Drow, as they've got many things similar that are easily comparable... LA +3 seems a little on the high side.. +4 if I include the faculative traits? If you're referring to Senses, if we look at the Noble Drow, while they have Light Blindness, and the distance... I could easily take the 'see in magical darkness' out as that's really not necessary... other than that I'm not sure what you mean... There are plenty of races that have Darkvision 60 or 90 ft, a few that have it to 120... many of them have low light vision as well.. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? Also... this isn't a 'class', just a race here to be modified for potential usage by PCs... Should I put my commentary about each thing on a line below the actual abilities so it's easier to see my thoughts?

AOKost
2023-02-16, 08:27 PM
Transferred to this post in Homebrew: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?654216-Custom-race-help-PEACH!&p=25709806#post25709806