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SangoProduction
2023-02-18, 01:51 AM
And by magician, I mean a classical sleight of hands, distraction artist.
If you were to create a "magician" as an adventuring class, what sorts of abilities would you have them gain?
Definitely at least touch-range, small illusions. Likely as an extraordinary effect.
Detect Surface Thoughts. Maybe even some fascination effects, or even full on hypnotism.
Ability to Aid Other more effectively.

What else?

As a D&D adventuring class, a "magician" based on classical sleight of hand and distraction would likely have abilities that focus on deception, misdirection, and trickery. Here are a few ideas:

Sleight of Hand: A magician would excel in pickpocketing, disarming traps, and hiding small objects. They could use this ability to take items from enemies or plant evidence to frame someone else.

Misdirection: A magician could use distractions to divert the attention of their enemies. They could throw glitter or confetti to blind them or set off a loud explosion to startle them.

Illusion: A magician could create illusions to trick their enemies. They could create a decoy of themselves or create a fake object to trick enemies into thinking it's the real one.

Charisma: A magician would be a charismatic character that could talk their way out of situations. They could use their charm to make enemies lower their guard or convince NPCs to help them.

Quick Thinking: A magician would need to be able to think on their feet and react quickly to unexpected situations. They could use their surroundings to their advantage, like grabbing a nearby object to use as a weapon or jumping behind cover.

Performance: A magician would be skilled at performing, which could be used to entertain NPCs and gain information. They could also use their performance skills to distract enemies or gain access to restricted areas.

Prestidigitation: A magician would have access to minor magical abilities that could enhance their performance. They could create small illusions, change the color or appearance of objects, or create small magical effects.

Deception: A magician could use their charisma and performance skills to deceive others. They could lie convincingly, disguise their appearance, or bluff their way through a situation.

Overall, a magician class in D&D would be a versatile class that relies on their quick wits and ability to deceive and distract their enemies.

Hmm. OK. I really hope you guys outdo ChatGPT. This thing's clever.
Come on! We've got a collective several hundred years of D&D-ish experience under our belts!
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Out of curiousity, I asked it, and it gave the following
Pick 3 from that list, and create the first 5 levels of a class with that power basis.
Sure! Here's a potential breakdown of the first 5 levels of a D&D class based on the three abilities of Misdirection, Charisma, and Quick Thinking:

Level 1:

Misdirection: Starting at level 1, the magician gains the ability to use a bonus action to create a minor distraction within 5 feet of themselves. This can be anything from tossing a small object to making a brief noise. The distraction lasts for one round and gives the magician advantage on their next Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.

Charisma: The magician starts with proficiency in the Persuasion and Deception skills. They also gain the ability to use their Charisma modifier instead of their Strength modifier when making an Athletics check.

Quick Thinking: The magician can use their reaction to take advantage of an opening in combat. When an enemy misses an attack against them, the magician can make an attack roll against that enemy as a reaction.

Level 2:

Misdirection: The magician's minor distractions become more effective. The range of the ability increases to 10 feet, and the distraction now lasts for two rounds.

Charisma: The magician gains proficiency in the Performance skill. They also gain the ability to use their Charisma modifier instead of their Wisdom modifier when making a Wisdom (Insight) check.

Quick Thinking: The magician gains the ability to take the Disengage or Dodge action as a bonus action on their turn.

Level 3:

Misdirection: The magician gains the ability to create a major distraction. They can use an action to create a distraction within 30 feet of themselves that lasts for three rounds. All creatures within 10 feet of the distraction are affected by the confusion spell for the duration of the distraction.

Charisma: The magician gains the ability to use their Charisma modifier instead of their Constitution modifier when determining their hit point maximum. They also gain the ability to use their Charisma modifier instead of their Dexterity modifier when making an initiative roll.

Quick Thinking: The magician gains proficiency in the Acrobatics skill. They also gain the ability to use their reaction to make a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to avoid an attack, taking half damage on a success.

Level 4:

Misdirection: The magician's minor distractions now last for three rounds.

Charisma: The magician gains the ability to use their Charisma modifier instead of their Intelligence modifier when making an Intelligence (Investigation) check. They also gain the ability to use their Charisma modifier instead of their Wisdom modifier when making a Wisdom (Perception) check.

Quick Thinking: The magician gains the ability to use their action to take the Dash or Help action.

Level 5:

Misdirection: The magician can now create a major distraction within 60 feet of themselves.

Charisma: The magician gains proficiency in one additional Charisma-based skill of their choice. They also gain the ability to use their reaction to make an opportunity attack against a creature that misses them with a melee attack.

Quick Thinking: The magician gains the ability to use their action to take the Search or Use an Object action. They also gain proficiency in the Sleight of Hand skill.
(It does seem to really like just using Charisma for literally every 5e check.)
In case you can't tell, my new favorite toy is ChatGPT. It's really damned interesting for an AI. And surprisingly human-like, given some touching up.

pabelfly
2023-02-18, 02:18 AM
I'd want it to have Pathfinder's Brilliant Planner feat.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/brilliant-planner/

There's a tricky situation, and the magician can somehow pull out the exact item he needs to solve the problme from his bag.

Bavarian itP
2023-02-18, 05:14 AM
The charlatan (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8763.0) prestige class is not exactly what you want, but there are a few class features that fit the "magician" theme.

Gruftzwerg
2023-02-18, 01:17 PM
How about something like an Alchemist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/) from PF?

Change the class skill and include Bluff and Disguise to aid you. Maybe even Perform (magician)?

Imho that is a real magician. An alchemist with the additional focus on acting, bluffing and disguise.

SimonMoon6
2023-02-18, 03:24 PM
I would say look at Mandrake the Magician. He is the character from which the stereotype of a magician as an adventurer really came from, and he launched a thousand imitators.

According to Wikipedia,



Mandrake is a magician whose work is based on an unusually fast hypnotic technique. As noted in captions, when Mandrake "gestures hypnotically", his subjects see illusions, and Mandrake has used this technique against a variety of villains including gangsters, mad scientists, extraterrestrials, and characters from other dimensions.[1] At various times in the comic strip, Mandrake also demonstrates other powers, including becoming invisible, shapeshifting, levitation, and teleporting.[1] His hat, cloak, and wand, passed down from his father Theron, possess great magical properties, which in time Mandrake learns how to manipulate.

So, hypnotisms and illusions, yes. Levitation would definitely be important. And the other powers (invisibility, shapeshifting, and teleportation) could be reserved for higher level characters. Such a character might also rely on a focus to use his abilities (such as hat, cloak, and/or wand).

Ramza00
2023-02-18, 04:03 PM
Time Sphere 3 abilities (so only 1 magic talent / sphere point if you sacrifice their weaker version of haste and slow and make the time spheres personal. This allows you to grab casting / magical gleaning and advanced magic training and have 1 more magic talent as an option)


Shift Time (faster than the human eye, whatever you are doing)
Retry (the grace / charisma ability of a magician feels uncanny and lucky, both grace of their fingers and body but also grace of their words and thought, well if you are retrying the last 6 seconds you get better rolls and you attempt the impossible and then undo it when you learn it is not possible but continue to do it if it is possible)
Retroactive Preparation (summon things to your hand that were not there before, no one sees the gold leaving your wallet)

Throw on some illusion magic either spheres or Vancian

Figments Silent Image / Minor Image / Major Image or the
Phantasms such as Hallucination Auditory / Audiovisual / Complex
Glammer invisibility, disguise self, etc

Level 1 to 4 Illusion / Enchantment spells feel like a Magician, level 5 to 9 fell like you are a Naruto Ninja Wizard such as Itachi. My point here is we can get these level of effects from Vancian or from Magic Items like Wands, Wondrous Items, and so on.

Same logic with Mage Hand, Unseen Servant, Benign and Baleful Transposition (replacement), Pyrotechnics, Levitation, Flight, Predestination all these are level 1 to 4 spells we can get from casting or magic item.

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Hell if I think Language Brain for a second, the cantrip Predestination aka "Least Wish" well that word literally means prae "before" (see pre-) + destinare "appoint, determine" (see destine (v.)) ... aka to set up before hand. And that is all what a magician is, someone who manipulates time, or illusions / senses, enchantment / mind, displacement with conjuration (teleportation) etc. But that predestination word also sometimes means to be set ahead via fate / destiny / god / gods. When man starts walking on the terrain of these beings ... that is what a magician is.

the magician is a person who astounds, the engima.

StSword
2023-02-18, 04:55 PM
A bit different, but the Magician from the Tome of Advanced Item Use, well I thought it was clever anyway.

Their first signature ability gives them "props"- temporary facsimiles of slot less wondrous items, but the abilities are extraordinary not supernatural or spell-like.

Their second signature ability is magician secrets- Basically equipment tricks for magic items. For example, maybe the magician knows how to use a portable hole as a chakram, or attach it to a shield so thrown or ranged attacks get stored in the portable hole for later.