How can Feigned Casting be useful?

[SangoProduction]

With Feigned Casting, you can non-magically pretend to cast a spell without visual components, and have it be believed... that you cast it. Not that it affects them. Funnily enough, this believability is not at all based on spellcraft.
So, aside from trying to bluff that you are some super wizard, and really hope no one calls that bluff, what can this ability be useful for?
Or perhaps what are some less-than-obvious ways in which pretending to be a super wizard could be useful.

[ciopo]

Where is that feigned casting? a quick googling I've found only false casting on pfsrd, but that doesn't seem to be what you are referring to?

Anyway, a use I can think of is to pretend to be casting spell A while actually casting spell B, but if that is possible depends on the specific wording of feigned casting

[SangoProduction]

Sorry, I figured getting the general idea across was good enough.
Here's the ability in full.


Feigned Casting (Ex): At and level, the time a charlatan practices imitating gestures and arcane words pays off, allowing her to pretend to cast any arcane or divine spell (as appropriate to her disguise). Onlookers must defeat the charlatan's Bluff check with an opposed Spellcraft or Sense Motive check to detect the ruse. Those who fail this check believe the charlatan cast a spell, per her desire. The charlatan cannot fake a spell with an obvious visual effect, such as fireball or wall of stone, but spells such as detect magic and mind blank are perfect examples. Those who cannot both see and hear the charlatan gain a +4 bonus on their opposed checks. The charlatan's false spell does not affect its targets and any creature targeted knows the "spell" had no effect.

It's the Charlatan PRC.

[Particle_Man]

It could use up dispel magics of an opponent.

And rubes might think you did something awesome "Don't worry I have laid a magical alarm around the perimeter of this town that will warn you if any of those evil spirits I mentioned should make an appearance. When that happens you will feel a chill. Just drink my patented Oil of Snake and you will be safe for 24 hours!"

[Baroncognito]

You could pretend to resurrect someone, say "they decided that they didn't want to come back" and pocket the Diamond dust. You could "cast" Commune and get exactly the answers you need to convince people to go with your plan of action.

[StSword]

The point is to pretend to be a spellcaster, that's the entire point of the PRC really.

Which if that's not your thing, that's fine, but then what does it matter?

It's "I cast discern lies, don't you dare lie to me, Gandolf the all knowing!" It's "I cast remove disease, now give me money for services rendered!" "I cursed you, so better do what I say if you don't want your genitals to shrivel and fall off, peasant!"

Step 1- trick people

Step 2- Get them to do what you want

Step 3- profit

[Baroncognito]

The point is to pretend to be a spellcaster, that's the entire point of the PRC really.

Which if that's not your thing, that's fine, but then what does it matter?

It's "I cast discern lies, don't you dare lie to me, Gandolf the all knowing!" It's "I cast remove disease, now give me money for services rendered!" "I cursed you, so better do what I say if you don't want your genitals to shrivel and fall off, peasant!"

None of those work, the targeted creature knows the "spell" had no effect and those all require targeting someone other than yourself.

[eggynack]

If you pretend to cast mind blank on yourself, then your enemies probably won't cast dominate person on you. If you fake cast freedom of movement, then they won't attempt a grapple. And if you fake cast greater magic weapon, then they will flee from combat capability that isn't there. Broadly, the ability to fake magic allows you to pretend to be strong where you are actually weak, and that has utility.

[Gruftzwerg]

If an enemy caster is into counterspelling or dispelling, this could be useful.

If...
Yeah, how often do counterspells come up at your table. IIRC it's zero from my experience.

Dispelling a bit more often.

The problem I have is that even a foe with sole Detect Magic "on" can see that there is no actual magic.
Thus, the best imaginable scenario is that you trade your action to waste an action (and maybe spell) from an enemy caster.

There is also the question what happens if someone sees trough your fluke multiple times. I can imagine that those people become kinda immune to it, since they kinda know that you can't really cast.


If you pretend to cast mind blank on yourself, then your enemies probably won't cast dominate person on you. If you fake cast freedom of movement, then they won't attempt a grapple. And if you fake cast greater magic weapon, then they will flee from combat capability that isn't there. Broadly, the ability to fake magic allows you to pretend to be strong where you are actually weak, and that has utility.

Remind you that the foe needs to still pass a Spellcraft check to know what spell you did pretend to cast. The foe doesn't automatically know which spell you did pretend to cast.

I wanna see how you wanna explain to a monster that intends to grapple you, that you have cast FoM now..^^

Even a fighter specialized into grappling wouldn't be affected in any way.

If the foe doesn't have enough points in Spellcraft, he won't know what you did pretend to cast. And just telling/yelling/explaining it (FoM) at them would be an additional "bluff" role (requires another action).

______________

Imho the ability is very niche in it's applications...

[Particle_Man]

There was the “disappearing pig” sleight of hand non-magic that Willow used to bamboozle the magical BBEG, I guess but it is situational.

Another issue is that there already are tricksy types (illusionists, enchanters, beguillers, bards, etc.) and they actually have magic. I think the charlatan PrC would work best in a world where magic is much more rare than it is in most campaigns I have seen (even taking into account how the PCs quickly become outliers). Maybe Iron Heroes, where the magical classes for PCs are optional at the DM’s discretion.

[Thunder999]

The rest of the PrC is actually pretty neat, it literally duplicates spells without being magical by just lieing really really well.

This particular ability seems to be there to cover any ideas the writer missed IMHO

[Xei_Win_Toh]

What immediately came to mind was to work together with an actual spellcaster, using Silent and Still Spell to simultaneously cast the spell you're pretending to cast; the attention is drawn to you, as the "spellcaster", while they remain in the background. Pathfinder's version of the Arcane Trickster, who can apply those metamagics for free a few times per day, seems like an ideal fit for the partner, both in mechanics and fluff.

I haven't quite figured out exactly where the mutual benefit is in doing this, but at least it's an idea.

[El Dorado]

One of the PCs is framed for a crime they didn’t commit. The NPC charlatan feign casts Discern Lies as part of the “investigation” and the PC is thrown into jail.

[Crake]

I mean, it has plenty of non-combat value, and seems like it would fair much better when used against the players rather than by the players, unless the players are interested in playing the aforementioned snake oil salesman.

[Particle_Man]

Another idea would be if something else (psionics, technology, etc.) is illegal (not as in banned by the DM, but as in PCs will be imprisoned for using it) but "regular magic" is not. The Charlatan can pretend to be casting when actually they (or someone else) is/are doing the illegal thing.

[Gruftzwerg]

Another idea would be if something else (psionics, technology, etc.) is illegal (not as in banned by the DM, but as in PCs will be imprisoned for using it) but "regular magic" is not. The Charlatan can pretend to be casting when actually they (or someone else) is/are doing the illegal thing.

now you just need 2 standard actions to pull of the trick on a regular base..

[Crake]

now you just need 2 standard actions to pull of the trick on a regular base..

Action economy isnt much of an issue when you’re out of combat and doing more of a social encounter, like what was described. If youre using illegal psionics to heal someone for example.

If you’re in combat, i dont imagine youd care about illegalities, since youre gonna kill your opponents

[StSword]

None of those work, the targeted creature knows the "spell" had no effect and those all require targeting someone other than yourself.

And why exactly do you think they'd know it had no effect?

[Baroncognito]

And why exactly do you think they'd know it had no effect?

Because I read the quoted text of the feat. "The charlatan's false spell does not affect its targets and any creature targeted knows the "spell" had no effect."

[Crake]

Because I read the quoted text of the feat. "The charlatan's false spell does not affect its targets and any creature targeted knows the "spell" had no effect."

Yeah, ngl this part of the ability is a bit dumb. It would make more sense if it read “the creature targeted feels no effect”. If you were pretending to cast mind blank, some bumpkin wouldnt have any clue whether or not the spell had an effect, but they wouldnt feel anything. Id say you could definitely use another bluff check to convince them that its totally normal for them not to feel anything, but that they are now immune to mind magic, and they should definitely go fight that vampire or mind flayer.

[Bavarian itP]

I mean, it has plenty of non-combat value, and seems like it would fair much better when used against the players rather than by the players, unless the players are interested in playing the aforementioned snake oil salesman.

We're talking about the Charlatan prestige class, so yeah, I think a player who takes that is interested in being the snake oil salesman.

[Batcathat]

Remind you that the foe needs to still pass a Spellcraft check to know what spell you did pretend to cast. The foe doesn't automatically know which spell you did pretend to cast.

Now I imagine it like a game of charades where the very frustrated "caster" is trying to make it more and more obvious what spell it's supposed to be. :smallamused:

[Crake]

We're talking about the Charlatan prestige class, so yeah, I think a player who takes that is interested in being the snake oil salesman.

My point was more that not many players would want to play such characters, mostly due to their class features not really doing much to support an adventuring lifestyle, and conning bumpkins gets old quick. Hence, it would likely see much more value in NPCs as minor villains or tricksters that dupe the party.

[icefractal]

If the people you're fooling are really "bumpkins", you don't even need this ability. Just wave your hands, say some words in a language they don't speak, and Bluff that you just cast a spell.

It's kind of narrow - its only targets are people who do know enough Spellcraft to identify what's a spell and what isn't (but not enough that it beats your Bluff), but don't have any senses (like say, Arcane Sight) that would alert them to the lack of magic. Although I guess if you claim to have cast Mind Blank, that would explain the lack of detecting anything. :smalltongue:

If it didn't have the "the target knows there was no magic" line, instead "doesn't feel any effect", then I think it'd be more useful.

[zlefin]

It's unclear to me what action type feigned casting would be. Is it the same as the underlying spell? If so, you could use swift actions in combat; if you're not otherwise using your swift, that's a chance to fool your opponents into tactical mistakes.

Another question would be how it interacts with feats; like can you feign casting a quickened spelling as a swift? or pretend you're a paladin using battle blessing to swiftbuff during combat?

From what I can see, one use is that you can feign off any list; it only says arcane or divine, with no specification of only being from on wizard or cleric lists, so you can feign druid, ranger, paladin, obscure prcs with unique spells, etc. it's a bit unclear how it would interact with spells on multiple lists; like if you try to feign as a trapsmith, does it feign as the trapsmith version of the spell?

[Telonius]

If the target genuinely knows no spell has been cast, I'm thinking a Doc Terminus/Hoagie interaction. You need a collaborator in the crowd.

"Gentle people, I am touched by this man's faith in me. Bring him forward! Now, I shall implore my deity, the forgotten god Argleblargle, HEAL THIS MAN!"
"My gods, I can see! ... oh, but where has it gone? I'm blind once more."
"My friend, I'm afraid that but a moment of relief happens when I first cast the spell. But all is not lost, you can complete the spell this evening!"
"I can?!"
"Yes, friend, Lord Argleblargle is merciful. But he requires not just faith, but works."
"Would ... ten gold be enough of a work?"
"I think it just might. Now, take this holy trinket, place it under your pillow as you sleep tonight, and you will awaken fully restored."
"Woohoo!"
"Now, who among you will join this new faithful in gaining the healing might of Argleblargle?"


Or, in a more combat-related scheme: make an obvious show of casting a Protection from (energy) spell, so Pyror the Fire Mage thinks he won't be able to target you with his usual tricks. Or Death Ward so the Necromancer thinks he can't use Finger of Death.

[Particle_Man]

For a high level con, I suppose "pretending" to cast reincarnation on the king, and then substituting your accomplice for the reincarnated King (the real king is still dead, of course, so you need some way to get rid of the old body too).

[Thunder999]

For a high level con, I suppose "pretending" to cast reincarnation on the king, and then substituting your accomplice for the reincarnated King (the real king is still dead, of course, so you need some way to get rid of the old body too).

Well you only need a piece of the body for resurrection, so you just need to arrange for it to get disintegrated or otherwise mostly destroyed, blame it on someone trying to prevent the use of Raise Dead, it's a good excuse to be providing a Reincarnate instead anyway.