Kenku - Rime of the Frostmaiden

[Chester]

After years of being the DM, I finally have the opportunity to play again. Looks like Rime of the Frostmaiden.

I'm set on playing a Kenku (Volo's Guide). Just not sure where I want to go with it. I'm thinking of two options:

1. Druid, Circle of the Land Arctic. Fits thematically, and I like the RP angle of mimicking the sounds of the arctic. Druid spell verbal components reflavored to consist of the sounds of nature. I like the idea of a white/grey feathered Kenku blending in with the wilderness in this area.

2. Monk, perhaps Way of Shadow. Kenku make good monks, I suppose, and nobody in my group has ever played a 5e monk. I can still flavor it as a tundra-wandering hermit monk.

There's also the possibility of multi-classing, though I'm not sure how to balance it. (I'm not married to Way of Shadow, either, and I'm wondering if Way of the Elements would blend well with Druid.)


Just curious what the playground's thoughts are, and if anyone has done either of those things. Any suggestions are welcome. (Except, of course, "don't be Kenku." That part's set.)

[thoroughlyS]

Don't be kenku... from Volo's. They don't have any mechanically useful traits. They were updated along with a lot of other races in Monsters of the Multiverse, and have all the same traits, just better. The one thing missing is the explicit inability to form new sounds, but you can just ask your DM to preserve that in-universe for your campaign.



As for what class to play, arctic land druid seems fine. The only reason I would say not to use it is that it only gives you two circle spells that aren't already druid spells: slow and cone of cold. Those spells can both be pretty useful, though. Monk can also be a good choice, but be aware that it'll be hard to define a mechanical niche in combat and monks don't multiclass well. For more useful advice, could you describe what you want to do for the party with this character?

[Chester]

could you describe what you want to do for the party with this character?

Scout and support. Difficult to say what the role would ultimately be, as it depends on the how the character gels with the others.

Mostly for me it's a roleplaying challenge, using the mimicry.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Mostly for me it's a roleplaying challenge, using the mimicry.

Just make sure everyone else at the table is on board with a character who can only speak through mimicry. What's fun and interesting for you might not be for others.

They're much improved in MotM where mimicry is something optional on top of some other useful features. You can still lean into it heavily but if you do receive pushback from your group (not to say you will) you'll have something to fall back on.

Way of Shadow Monk could be pretty good, if I recall correctly from the parts of it I ran the campaign is typically very dark (regarding light sources) and there will be lots of opportunity to make use of the shadow monks unique strengths.

[Segev]

Personally, I am always disappointed to read advice that is, "Only play this if the most interesting aspect of it isn't part of it." While I'm all for making sure your fellow players are okay with you describing what your kenku "says" as non-speech or as clip-speech, I will not stand by and say you should play a character who chooses to act like he has a speech impediment when he doesn't. If the requirement to mimic is important to you (as it would be to me), I encourage you to disregard the advice to drop that interesting aspect of the race.

Mechanically, my design with kenku would be an illusionist, so I don't have strong advice there. The mimicry feature - especially if you definitely have the "cannot speak" curse - would interact interestingly with wild shape, though: you can't speak in wild shape, but you can't speak anyway, and you explicitly keep racial features of your base race. Which means you could use mimicry in animal form and have an animal that makes strange sounds or even mimics clips of others' speech. Circle of the Moon may be fun, with this in mind. Circle of the Land (Arctic) ironically offers zilch to help you survive the cold. :smallfrown: Freedom of movement at level 7 is nice to have, admittedly, and maybe the ability to ignore nonmagical difficult terrain will be handy in the heavy snow and ice.

Shadow Monk is a lot of fun. The recharge-at-short-rest nature of ki makes spending 2 ki for pass without trace really nice, much nicer than relying on the druid's second level spell slots for it, at least around level 5 or so. The teleport as a bonus action from shadow to shadow is also really nice.


But, what about the Kenku actually interests you? I know what interests me, but leaning into that may not be what makes it great for you. What aspects of the Kenku do you want to lean into? Class choice could help bolster that.

[Psyren]

It's worth acknowledging that "interesting" doesn't always mean "good", and it certainly doesn't mean "won't be annoying in any way to your fellow players." So while highlighting that might seem like the person giving the advice is being negative, I choose to believe that is nevertheless coming from a genuine desire to be helpful. Sometimes the question you ask isn't the question you most need answered.

With all that out of the way:

@OP: If you're set on using the legacy version of the Mimicry trait, see if there are some common words or sounds that your DM is willing to have you start the game with. Words that will allow you to do everything in the Command Spell are a decent start.

[Dr.Samurai]

Don't be kenku... from Volo's. They don't have any mechanically useful traits. They were updated along with a lot of other races in Monsters of the Multiverse, and have all the same traits, just better. The one thing missing is the explicit inability to form new sounds, but you can just ask your DM to preserve that in-universe for your campaign.
The Volo's mimicry is superior, as it is easier to boost a contested ability check than it is to pump your charisma on a non-cha class to increase the DC. If they plan on using Mimicry often, I don't think there's an argument that the revised Kenku is better.

What's fun and interesting for you might not be for others.
I appreciate what this is getting at, but this is also true of pretty much any character traits. I find it absolutely grating to roleplay alongside the quippy bravo that's never surprised or scared and takes everything in stride with a joke or insult, highlighting that we are in fact playing a game almost every moment they speak. But I play alongside these characters ALL THE TIME lol. They're very popular. It pulls me out of the game, but I respect it's what the players want to play.

We should have some tolerance for the other players at the table. I don't know what is automatically irritating about the kenku mimicry, so I may be missing something. No one has played one at my table yet.

[Segev]

It's worth acknowledging that "interesting" doesn't always mean "good", and it certainly doesn't mean "won't be annoying in any way to your fellow players." So while highlighting that might seem like the person giving the advice is being negative, I choose to believe that is nevertheless coming from a genuine desire to be helpful. Sometimes the question you ask isn't the question you most need answered.

With all that out of the way:

@OP: If you're set on using the legacy version of the Mimicry trait, see if there are some common words or sounds that your DM is willing to have you start the game with. Words that will allow you to do everything in the Command Spell are a decent start.

Note that I did say to talk to the other players about it.

Also, in actual at-the-table play, the easiest way to go about it is to express what your character means when it would be disruptive to the table to try to communicate IRL solely in auditory rebuses.

Use it as a roleplaying tool. Of course, this is a question of whether it's even what the OP is attracted by. If it's something he'd be just as happy to ignore because the Kenku curse isn't a thing, so be it.

I just know being told, "Use this other thing that exactly is not what you wanted, because it's better!" is annoying. For the same reason that other things you and I disagree on annoy me as TCE pushed them forward.

But, again, if it's not the curse that was of interest to the OP, and he's just as happy not to have to RP that disability, then no problem for him.

[Psyren]

Also, in actual at-the-table play, the easiest way to go about it is to express what your character means when it would be disruptive to the table to try to communicate IRL solely in auditory rebuses.

I mean, that's fine, but if the advice being given is "ignore this feature when it becomes annoying" then people warning that the feature might not be well thought-out enough to avoid becoming annoying aren't wrong. And therefore that said warning might be warranted.


Use it as a roleplaying tool. Of course, this is a question of whether it's even what the OP is attracted by. If it's something he'd be just as happy to ignore because the Kenku curse isn't a thing, so be it.

I just know being told, "Use this other thing that exactly is not what you wanted, because it's better!" is annoying. For the same reason that other things you and I disagree on annoy me as TCE pushed them forward.

But, again, if it's not the curse that was of interest to the OP, and he's just as happy not to have to RP that disability, then no problem for him.

OP did say the mimicry is a roleplaying challenge. And that's fine. The issue is when everyone else is subjected to that specific roleplay - either when communicating with them directly, or dealing with the consequences of an NPC inevitably misunderstanding at some point, or simply having the novelty wane but the character is still there.

[Segev]

I mean, that's fine, but if the advice being given is "ignore this feature when it becomes annoying" then people warning that the feature might not be well thought-out enough to avoid becoming annoying aren't wrong. And therefore that said warning might be warranted.

It's not quite the same thing to say, "This might be something you need to watch out for; here are ways to potentially avoid it being a problem," and, "Eh, just don't play that. Play this, instead, that completely lacks that."

It's about as useful as saying, "Well, flight might be problematic at the table. So you should play a Kenku instead of the Aarakocra you said you wanted to play."

[Chester]

Ignore Kenku then. I'm playing generic race with bonuses to wisdom and dexterity.

Druid? Monk? Druid Monk? Setting is Icewind Dale.

[Dr.Samurai]

I would favor monk over druid, but I enjoy playing non-casters.

I do like the idea of wildshaping in 1 animal, but mimicking the roar or cry of another animal lol.

[Psyren]

It's not quite the same thing to say, "This might be something you need to watch out for; here are ways to potentially avoid it being a problem," and, "Eh, just don't play that. Play this, instead, that completely lacks that."

It's about as useful as saying, "Well, flight might be problematic at the table. So you should play a Kenku instead of the Aarakocra you said you wanted to play."

I don't think this is a good analogy. Flight's problems (or lack thereof) for a given table are a lot more obvious than something like Mimicry that can appear cool at first before becoming grating.


Ignore Kenku then. I'm playing generic race with bonuses to wisdom and dexterity.

Druid? Monk? Druid Monk? Setting is Icewind Dale.

Going to need a bit more to go on than your ability scores for that. Melee? Ranged? Caster? Support? Offense? Defense?

[RogueJK]

Arctic Land Druid is thematically appropriate, and gets you two powerful non-Druid spells - Slow and Cone of Cold. But don't lean too hard into the "cold damage" angle exclusively, since many enemies in Icewind Dale will be resistant/immune to cold damage.



A Druid/Monk build can work well. As with most multiclasses, you want one primary class and one "dip" class with 1-2 levels.

For Monk primary, Stars Druid 2/Astral Self Monk X offers you WIS-SAD melee and ranged damage. You're the typical speedy melee Monk, but with the ability to also land solid ranged damage using Guiding Bolt/Cantrip + Archer Form as well. Plus your free Guiding Bolts per day scale with Proficiency, not Druid level. And since you can prioritize WIS over DEX, your Stunning Strikes will be more likely to stick, plus you've got a few useful 1st level spells like Entangle and Faerie Fire to make use of you otherwise unused Concentration. The 2 level delay to your Monk abilities is noticeable, but workable, especially in light of your increased capabilities elsewhere. (It'll hurt the most from Levels 6-7 while your unarmed strikes are still non-magical, but you can get by using a cantrip like Shillelagh.)

For Druid primary, Monk 1/Moon Druid X offers you a very handy boost to your Wild Shape AC. But a level or two of Monk is not that useful on most other types of Druids, unless you're just dead-set on being unarmored all the time.

[Chronos]

Quoth RogueJK:

Arctic Land Druid is thematically appropriate, and gets you two powerful non-Druid spells - Slow and Cone of Cold. But don't lean too hard into the "cold damage" angle exclusively, since many enemies in Icewind Dale will be resistant/immune to cold damage.
This is something I've always wondered about D&D-style cold or fire environments. Why would the creatures living in arctic environments, like winter wolves and white dragons, have cold-based attacks, when everything else that lives there is immune to cold? Why would creatures living in volcanoes have fire-based attacks, when everything else that lives there is immune to fire? Remorhahzes, at least, make sense (using fire against creatures vulnerable to it), but most of them would have a tough time hunting each other.

[Segev]

Ignore Kenku then. I'm playing generic race with bonuses to wisdom and dexterity.

Druid? Monk? Druid Monk? Setting is Icewind Dale.

So it isn't anything in the Kenku kit you want to try to play towards?

Scouting in Icewind Dale... I suggest Ranger, honestly. Favored Terrain: Arctic will do wonders for your party's travel capabilities. Unfortunately, Canny replaces Favored Terrain, which means you can't have both. Gloomstalker Rangers are excellent scouts. Swarmkeeper could be some sort of snow-mancer with snowflakes as his swarm. It also multiclasses well with monk. If you want Favored Terrain: Arctic and expertise, multiclassing rogue can work, too. I personally think Gloomstalker Ranger + Rogue Assassin makes a pretty nice build; Assassin is pretty lackluster overall, but Gloomstalker gives bonuses to initiative and an extra attack on that all-important first round when the assassin can auto-crit.

[Hairfish]

Echo Knight that discusses tactics with their echo in mimicked noises to doubly annoy the rest of the players. Also, use your beak to pluck out and eat the eyes of enemies.

[Chronos]

Quoth Segev:

So it isn't anything in the Kenku kit you want to try to play towards?
It looks to me like there is, but the OP is tired of people telling them how to avoid the very things they're trying to play towards.

[thoroughlyS]

The Volo's mimicry is superior, as it is easier to boost a contested ability check than it is to pump your charisma on a non-cha class to increase the DC. If they plan on using Mimicry often, I don't think there's an argument that the revised Kenku is better.
I didn't realize that the effect of mimicry was changed to a flat DC. Great catch! That said, I don't think they are choosing kenku to trick people with mimicry. They are wanting a character that can't talk in a straightforward sense. If that's the case, the DC is a non-issue, and they can benefit from the free skill advantages.




Ignore Kenku then. I'm playing generic race with bonuses to wisdom and dexterity.

Druid? Monk? Druid Monk? Setting is Icewind Dale.
Is your DM not allowing floating ability scores? If you are strictly sticking to DEX and WIS, and want to scout, Wild Shape is great for climb speeds at low levels and fly speeds at mid levels.

[Sherlockpwns]

Yeah don’t listen to these scrubs; play what you wanna play. Lol

As far as the Druid vs Shadow Monk, I guess the overall theme here is “Nature Snow Bird” so the only other class that would immediately fit is a ranger (beastmaster is funny since neither of you could talk but that is besides the point) or to a lesser degree nature cleric.

Both Druid and Monk are quite difficult to multiclass; especially land. So boring as it is, I wouldn’t.

Ranger is somewhat unique in that Rangers multiclass really well, allowing some solid abilities to guide your party in the snow, the Druid-light spells, and then you peace out of it at level 5 or 7 usually. Nature cleric would fit the theme, fighter 3 can net you some nice add-on abilities, even rogue offers some unique angles.

Druid is probably straight up more powerful both in and out of combat with some few exceptions where you’d need that monk mobility. Also if your table isn’t doing light rules well shadow monk is kind of weird.

Oh and I’d avoid 4 elements. It’s just unrewarding.

So I guess if I had to vote it would be the arctic Druid. Gonna be more interesting out of combat than the monk. Probably more interesting in combat too; but if your party needs a melee, monk or ranger will be a-ok.

[RogueJK]

As far as the Druid vs Shadow Monk, I guess the overall theme here is “Nature Snow Bird” so the only other class that would immediately fit is a ranger (beastmaster is funny since neither of you could talk but that is besides the point) or to a lesser degree nature cleric.


Druid, Ranger, and Nature Cleric aren't the only options for nature-themed characters.

There are several other subclasses with explicit "nature" themes, such as Ancients Paladin, Beast Barbarian, Storm Herald Barbarian, Totem Barbarian, Tempest Cleric, Scout Rogue, Archfey Warlock, or Fathomless Warlock.

And you can take just about any PC and make them "nature themed" via backstory/skills/roleplaying. Plus some of the races are overtly nature-centric, including stuff like Forest Gnomes, Lizardfolk, Eladrin, Wood Elves, and Firbolgs.

For example, I once played an overtly nature-themed Samurai Fighter, basically a "protector of the wilds". Effectively a (mostly) spell-less Ranger, although they did take the Magic Initiate Druid feat to get WIS-based melee and ranged options, since my goal was to make a WIS-SAD Fighter. The rest of it was all accomplished through skill choices and roleplaying.

[RogueJK]

but if your party needs a melee, monk or ranger will be a-ok.

Even with the fixed racial DEX/WIS stat bonuses, a perfectly viable and non-typical "Arctic Nature-Themed Melee Kenku" build could be something like this:

Kenku Storm Herald Barbarian with Tundra Aura
STR 15
DEX 12+2
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 13+1
CHA 8
ASIs: +1 STR/+1 CON at 4, +2 STR at 8, +2 STR or CON at 12
Skills: Survival, Animal Handling, Athletics, Perception, Stealth*, Sleight of Hand*

You can spend your BA each turn while Raging to give Temp HP to yourself and any allies within 10'. Starting at Level 6 you have Cold Resistance and immunity to environmental cold effects, and by Level 10 this also applies to all allies within 10' of you.

Out of combat, you're the party's scout and frozen wilderness survival expert. And you can turn 5' sections of water into blocks of ice, for use when the party needs to traverse bodies of water.

[Stattick]

After years of being the DM, I finally have the opportunity to play again. Looks like Rime of the Frostmaiden.

I'm set on playing a Kenku (Volo's Guide). Just not sure where I want to go with it. I'm thinking of two options:

1. Druid, Circle of the Land Arctic. Fits thematically, and I like the RP angle of mimicking the sounds of the arctic. Druid spell verbal components reflavored to consist of the sounds of nature. I like the idea of a white/grey feathered Kenku blending in with the wilderness in this area.

2. Monk, perhaps Way of Shadow. Kenku make good monks, I suppose, and nobody in my group has ever played a 5e monk. I can still flavor it as a tundra-wandering hermit monk.

There's also the possibility of multi-classing, though I'm not sure how to balance it. (I'm not married to Way of Shadow, either, and I'm wondering if Way of the Elements would blend well with Druid.)


Just curious what the playground's thoughts are, and if anyone has done either of those things. Any suggestions are welcome. (Except, of course, "don't be Kenku." That part's set.)

I haven't read the thread. I'm playing in a Frostmaiden campaign for the first time at the moment, and want to avoid spoilers.

Monk... just plain, isn't great. But Shadow monk is one of the best monk subclasses. Way of the Elements is bad - avoid. Monk could kind of work with druid, I guess. They're both Wis based. Hmm... I wonder if Unarmored Defense or monk's Bonus Action strike (or Flurry for that matter) could be used while Wild Shaped. Hmm... I'd guess not, but hopefully someone addressed that.

If you are set for monk, Gloom Stalker Ranger would be a nice multiclass, which is also Wis based casting (imagine landing hunter's mark 4 times per round). It would also give you Dark Vision, which will likely be useful. Thematically, shadow sorcerer would work, but that's a harder one to work out, as it's Chr based casting, so you'd want to stick to buffs and utility instead of casting (prestidigitation, minor illusion, shield, absorb elements, darkness, shadow blade, etc). Also, the more you dip into something else, the more that monk suffers. So doing three or four levels of other classes is probably all I'd do, unless you have a good reason to do something else.

Also, if your gm enforces it, outdoor combat is a pain in the campaign, since all that snow and ice makes everything difficult terrain. Land's Stride would be very helpful - you can pick that up as 6th lvl land druid, or an 8th lvl ranger (any subclass). Will also make flight of any sort, king.