Colville's Making A New Game

[Sparky McDibben]

Saw this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFsI91djnQM

Sounds like a retread of 4E. Neat idea, but sounds like 13th Age with the grid thrown back in.

[Marcloure]

It does sound a bit like 13th Age with the grid back in, but MCDM playtesting is just superior and their ideas more daring. Also, it seems like they will try to tackle a few more pillars than what 13th Age does

[Sparky McDibben]

It does sound a bit like 13th Age with the grid back in, but MCDM playtesting is just superior and their ideas more daring. Also, it seems like they will try to tackle a few more pillars than what 13th Age does

They certainly have excellent playtesting, you are correct. But daring <> good. The thing I am most concerned with in this preview is disassociated mechanics. This game might be outstanding, but I don't know that it'll be "for me." Might be! We'll see. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until the final version gets released.

[windgate]

Watched the video, I am interested.

The only mechanic he talked about was how he envisioned armor working. That by itself sounds good to me.

[Easy e]

It is funny to me, that in Wargame design, the running joke is that most designers start by making a better Warhammer 40K.

I guess for RPG designers, they start by trying to make a better Dungeons and Dragons? I see Colville, Kobold Press, Paizo, and others just re-working Dungeons and Dragons.

I look forward to 5-10 years when we start to see something, actually innovative from a whole product standpoint instead of re-inventing the wheel like an old-fashioned tire factory. Good luck to them!

[Luccan]

It is funny to me, that in Wargame design, the running joke is that most designers start by making a better Warhammer 40K.

I guess for RPG designers, they start by trying to make a better Dungeons and Dragons? I see Colville, Kobold Press, Paizo, and others just re-working Dungeons and Dragons.

I look forward to 5-10 years when we start to see something, actually innovative from a whole product standpoint instead of re-inventing the wheel like an old-fashioned tire factory. Good luck to them!

Yeah I was really expecting all these D&D supplement companies to start making hard Sci-Fi games based around diplomacy and social graces

Anyway, apparently this is going to have custom dice? Based on vague things Matt has said on Twitter anyway. I'm not on their Patreon so I can't check at this point. I haven't really played anything with custom dice and while there's apparently both a conversions chart for regular dice and they've promised it won't be hard to get their custom dice (I don't know how that's supposed to work, they aren't a big company) I have mixed feelings about it. Otherwise I'm just waiting to learn more about the game.

[Easy e]

Custom dice...... ugh......

[Luccan]

Custom dice...... ugh......

I watch his YouTube channel and I know he likes the custom dice for one of the versions of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG, so I'm not surprised. I'm not sure I understand the need for custom dice though, seems like it's kinda just about dumbing down the mechanics*. Like, it's very visually distinct to roll three skulls and three suns or whatever, but if they're anywhere within your standard DnD set for number of sides it seems like you could just give a range of numbers that are good, neutral, and bad? And you can just buy regular dice that are different colors if that matters, since what I know of custom dice systems there's usually good and bad or high risk-reward dice.

*I should clarify, I mean "dumbing down" not as in truly less complicated, but more like "it's too hard to understand 1-3 is good, 5-8 is neutral and 9-10 is bad so we use pictures"

[stoutstien]

Personally his style doesn't resonate with me but I'll keep an eye on it.

[EggKookoo]

Custom dice...... ugh......

I suspect custom dice come from a desire, at least partially, to "own" the mechanics. If your game requires half-purple-half-green d6s with a skull, two asterisks, a blank face, an eye, and the outline of the Great Old One, it's pretty hard for someone else to say they just happened to stumble across it for their game.

I guess it also helps the math-challenged, in a sense, but my kid's elementary school teacher teaches basic arithmetic by having the kids roll different-sized dice and adding up the numbers.

But I'm a dice bigot. I don't like custom dice. I don't like (most) dice pool systems. I don't like "we only use d6s!" systems.

[Luccan]

I suspect custom dice come from a desire, at least partially, to "own" the mechanics. If your game requires half-purple-half-green d6s with a skull, two asterisks, a blank face, an eye, and the outline of the Great Old One, it's pretty hard for someone else to say they just happened to stumble across it for their game.

I guess it also helps the math-challenged, in a sense, but my kid's elementary school teacher teaches basic arithmetic by having the kids roll different-sized dice and adding up the numbers.

But I'm a dice bigot. I don't like custom dice. I don't like (most) dice pool systems. I don't like "we only use d6s!" systems.

See in theory I'm fine with any of those. My unease for custom dice comes mostly from the fact that they're definitionally not something you can just go out and buy for most games. And if you can, that's only so long as the game is supported.

[Easy e]

Custom dice are a barrier for entry, allow a chance to monetize an aspect of the game, and gate keep your own rule set.

They are very popular in the board game and wargame market as an added stream of revenue you can put on your game.

[Zuras]

It is funny to me, that in Wargame design, the running joke is that most designers start by making a better Warhammer 40K.

I guess for RPG designers, they start by trying to make a better Dungeons and Dragons? I see Colville, Kobold Press, Paizo, and others just re-working Dungeons and Dragons.

I look forward to 5-10 years when we start to see something, actually innovative from a whole product standpoint instead of re-inventing the wheel like an old-fashioned tire factory. Good luck to them!

Why would we be getting anything different 10 years from now? Larger companies will go where the players are, which means either making 5e compatible material or systems familiar enough in mechanics that they have realistic hopes of attracting some of the teeming masses of 5e players.

The innovation in RPGs is always going to come from small publishers, and eventually get incorporated into more mainstream games. Also, it’s not like designers riffing on D&D aren’t coming up with interesting innovations. Many of the newer OSR games are quite innovative in their quest for minimalism.

[Anonymouswizard]

It is funny to me, that in Wargame design, the running joke is that most designers start by making a better Warhammer 40K.

I guess for RPG designers, they start by trying to make a better Dungeons and Dragons? I see Colville, Kobold Press, Paizo, and others just re-working Dungeons and Dragons.

I look forward to 5-10 years when we start to see something, actually innovative from a whole product standpoint instead of re-inventing the wheel like an old-fashioned tire factory. Good luck to them!

To be fair, as long as D&D has the market share it does that's going to be true, because most RPG designers start on Dungeons & Dragons. Some never leave, but many have, and honestly there's nothing exactly wrong with trying to make a better D&D. It gives you like four or five quite different starting points depending on which edition you prefer, and some of the core traits are actually incredibly uncommon in the rest of the industry.

Plus occasional 'trying to make a better D&D' results in a fairly different game, like Ryuutama. Even Monte Cook eventually made something interesting, Cypher's possible the best damn generic out there once you ban the Adept.

As to custom dice, I'm not a fan, but if the game's good I can look past it.

[Pauly]

It is funny to me, that in Wargame design, the running joke is that most designers start by making a better Warhammer 40K.

I guess for RPG designers, they start by trying to make a better Dungeons and Dragons? I see Colville, Kobold Press, Paizo, and others just re-working Dungeons and Dragons.

I look forward to 5-10 years when we start to see something, actually innovative from a whole product standpoint instead of re-inventing the wheel like an old-fashioned tire factory. Good luck to them!

Considering WH40K just rehashed Don Featherstone’s ‘buckets of dice’ rules from the 1960s with a cool grimdark marketing gimmick there are literally hundreds of better wargames already on the market. If your starting point is building something better than 40K you’re setting yourself a very low bar. 40K thrives despite it’s rules not because of them.

[Luccan]

Considering WH40K just rehashed Don Featherstone’s ‘buckets of dice’ rules from the 1960s with a cool grimdark marketing gimmick there are literally hundreds of better wargames already on the market. If your starting point is building something better than 40K you’re setting yourself a very low bar. 40K thrives despite it’s rules not because of them.

I like D&D, but I suspect the connotation of the comparison was on purpose

[Marcloure]

It is funny to me, that in Wargame design, the running joke is that most designers start by making a better Warhammer 40K.

I guess for RPG designers, they start by trying to make a better Dungeons and Dragons? I see Colville, Kobold Press, Paizo, and others just re-working Dungeons and Dragons.

I look forward to 5-10 years when we start to see something, actually innovative from a whole product standpoint instead of re-inventing the wheel like an old-fashioned tire factory. Good luck to them!

MCDM RPG has absolutely nothing to do with D&D. Just watch this clip and you'll understand their approach to design: https://clips.twitch.tv/BloodyEntertainingPhoneRitzMitz-Am6rvB6DMMn1y1ld

Their game isn't a d20 game, there is no Fighter or Rogue. It's a heroic fantasy RPG, action oriented, cinematic. A new RPG from scratch, not from the bones of old traditions.

[MadBear]

From what I've seen in pumped for this. I'm already a fan of fantasy flights star wars RPG, and it's dice system, so a custom dice system is appealing to me.

The thing is that custom dice allow for options you just don't get with basic number dice.

Having played his action oriented monsters, I believe his system should be fun and dynamic.

[Catullus64]

Having intermittently followed Colville's prior talks about this project on his Twitch streams, I can say that I find the live-development aspect far more interesting than I probably will the actual game, simply because the brand of heroic fantasy as he presents it isn't my taste. But watching this design process unfold is amazing, and has given me so much to digest for running and designing my own games. Even if you don't care about the product and decide it's not for you, I think that anyone interested in game systems owes it to themselves to follow this project. I have very little experience with Matt Colville (and company)'s products, so I have no real projection as to whether this will be good, but as a presenter and commentator on RPG design, I think he's unmatched.

[KorvinStarmast]

Having intermittently followed Colville's prior talks about this project on his Twitch streams, I can say that I find the live-development aspect far more interesting than I probably will the actual game, simply because the brand of heroic fantasy as he presents it isn't my taste. But watching this design process unfold is amazing, and has given me so much to digest for running and designing my own games. Even if you don't care about the product and decide it's not for you, I think that anyone interested in game systems owes it to themselves to follow this project. I have very little experience with Matt Colville (and company)'s products, so I have no real projection as to whether this will be good, but as a presenter and commentator on RPG design, I think he's unmatched. Matt's supplement (castles and followers) isn't bad, but it's a bit denser than I like for 5e stuff. Adding new piles of rules on top of what I do adds to DM overhead.

[Luccan]

Matt's supplement (castles and followers) isn't bad, but it's a bit denser than I like for 5e stuff. Adding new piles of rules on top of what I do adds to DM overhead.

I got it recently, but I know I'm not using most of it until/unless I get a player interested in the idea of owning a stronghold. That said, the rules for retainers look simpler than running a normal NPC or sidekick, which will probably be more frequently useful

[EggKookoo]

I got it recently, but I know I'm not using most of it until/unless I get a player interested in the idea of owning a stronghold. That said, the rules for retainers look simpler than running a normal NPC or sidekick, which will probably be more frequently useful

I like it for the stronghold construction stuff. The large-scale tactical warfare stuff isn't what I'm looking for.