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PolarBearGod
2007-12-03, 09:52 PM
Okay, so here goes. My Wizard/Sorcerer has recently reached level 12 and thus I'm trying to decide which spells I should take. For my Wizard, I have these...

Greater Dispel
Superior Resistance
Disintegrate
Bite of The Weretiger
Greater Anticipate Teleportation
Contingency

However, I'm interested in what spells would be best for the Sorcerer half of things? In general, the sorcerer is the damage dealing/crowd control portion of my spells. I'm able to select anything from the Forgotten Realms, Players Handbooks, and Spell Compendiums.

I read these spells were good stuff, but wasn't sure if you wise minded folk here might know of something better and if so, where might I look for it?

Repulsion
Acid Fog
True Seeing
Greater Heroism
Fire Spiders
Brilliant Blade

Any suggestions? I would appreciate the help from anyone willing to offer.

EDIT: If it helps, my group consists of...
Half-Orc Fighter
Human Fighter/Thief (Much more of a fighter if you ask me)
Cleric NPC
Druid
Witch Hunter
and lil' ole' me..:smallbiggrin:

Rama_Lei
2007-12-03, 09:54 PM
You have one wizard character and one sorcerer character? What is the rest of the party made up of?

PolarBearGod
2007-12-03, 09:58 PM
I edited it up there. Sorry about that. We don't ever really lack for healing much. If you need further information, let me know. My apologies.

Edit: We're playing a campaign set in Myth Drannor and keep dealing with these annoying Phaerim and Beholder Hives.

JaxGaret
2007-12-03, 10:00 PM
Seems like pretty good choices to me. I'll take a look later at some other good spells for you to choose.

One thing for you to note: your character is a Sorcerer//Wizard, not a Sorcerer/Wizard.

The double slash denotes a gestalt.

JaxGaret
2007-12-03, 10:02 PM
Double post.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-03, 10:09 PM
That would be great. Any assistance, as I said, is appreciated. Right now we keep facing these ANNOYING creatures called Phaerim. We also encounter Beholder Hives. We're trying to restore a place in the Forgotten Realsm called Myth Drannor. I'm sure the majority of you reading this know what I'm speaking of lol but it's somewhat new to me.

deadseashoals
2007-12-03, 10:54 PM
It would help to know your sorcerer spells known to this point, as you never want to duplicate, and you always want to plan and make sure you have the most versatility out of your known spells possible. In the absence of a list, I'd have to recommend acid fog if you want crowd control.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-03, 11:47 PM
Shocking Grasp
Magic Missle
Burning Hands
Grease
Lesser Orb of Sound
Flaming Sphere
Melf's Acid Arrow
Web
Ray of Ice
Scorch
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Sound Lance
Rainbow Blast
Evards Black Tenticles
Ice Storm
Wall of Good
Cone of Cold
Prismatic Spray

Guy_Whozevl
2007-12-04, 01:02 AM
Shocking Grasp
Magic Missle
Burning Hands
Grease
Lesser Orb of Sound
Flaming Sphere
Melf's Acid Arrow
Web
Ray of Ice
Scorch
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Sound Lance
Rainbow Blast
Evards Black Tenticles
Ice Storm
Wall of Good
Cone of Cold
Prismatic Spray

Uh...no. Half of those spells are generally useless, such as Wall of Good (is easily eclipsed by the Circle of Protection spells. Rainbow Blast just sucks. Magic Missle is okay, but generally not too useful. Buring hands is crap. Web, Grease, Acid Arrow, Black Tenticles, and Orb spells are all decent. Most of the direct damage spells come at a level where there are much better choices. For example, would you rather get a Fireball spell, or Fly. Ice Storm or Polymorph. For the Sorcerer side, store up on general utility spells that can be used properly in any situation, i.e. Fly, Dimention Door, Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Haste, etc. You will want the Wizard side to focus on spells that have specific purposes, but are extremely useful in that situation, i.e. Orb spells for guys with SR (read Golems), Fire Spiders, your SoD spells such as Baleful Polymorph, Finger of Death, Touch of Idiocy, Hold Person, etc.

deadseashoals
2007-12-04, 02:43 AM
Shocking Grasp
Magic Missle
Burning Hands
Grease
Lesser Orb of Sound
Flaming Sphere
Melf's Acid Arrow
Web
Ray of Ice
Scorch
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Sound Lance
Rainbow Blast
Evards Black Tenticles
Ice Storm
Wall of Good
Cone of Cold
Prismatic Spray

I would recommend getting acid fog, and taking the opportunity to train out of some of your redundant spells. You really don't need both fireball and lightning bolt, for example - you should retrain one into haste or fly ASAP. I know your wizard side can cast those, but those are the kinds of spells that you want to cast many times per day, and that makes them really good candidates for sorcerer spells. In contrast, wizard spells are the kind of spell that you cast once on yourself at the beginning of the day, or are rarely used divinations, or very situational spells that you memorize, but often end up not casting.

Triaxx
2007-12-04, 03:26 PM
Leave Batman to the wizard. A sorceror works best as a blaster.

Fly is always good even if you only use it on occasion. Lightning Bolt and Fireball are not redundant. Throwing Fireball down a corridor is a waste of energy. Shooting a bolt of lightning through a doorway is as well. Burning hands isn't useless, but it's specialized. I can blast it into a bunch of trolls where a single Acid Arrow only hits one, even if it does more DoT.

On the other hand, unless you're going to pick up Reach Spell, Shocking Grasp is kind of pointless. If they're that close to your character, you'd be better off D-Dooring out. Magic Missile is another spell that reigns supreme at it's most useful job, which is attempting to disrupt spell casting. Not everyone uses shield.

Cuddly
2007-12-04, 03:38 PM
Uh...no. Half of those spells are generally useless, such as Wall of Good (is easily eclipsed by the Circle of Protection spells. Rainbow Blast just sucks. Magic Missle is okay, but generally not too useful. Buring hands is crap. Web, Grease, Acid Arrow, Black Tenticles, and Orb spells are all decent. Most of the direct damage spells come at a level where there are much better choices. For example, would you rather get a Fireball spell, or Fly. Ice Storm or Polymorph. For the Sorcerer side, store up on general utility spells that can be used properly in any situation, i.e. Fly, Dimention Door, Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Haste, etc. You will want the Wizard side to focus on spells that have specific purposes, but are extremely useful in that situation, i.e. Orb spells for guys with SR (read Golems), Fire Spiders, your SoD spells such as Baleful Polymorph, Finger of Death, Touch of Idiocy, Hold Person, etc.

I noticed that you forgot to close your parentheses, and "Ice storm or Polymorph." isn't a proper sentence.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-04, 05:10 PM
My DM said I could redo my Sorcerer spells if I want to. Let me share with you what Wizard spells I have, then maybe if any of you wouldn't mind, I will retool my Sorcerer spells accordingly. As it stands, I have to keep my Wizard spells what they are....

Level 1
Mage Armor
Shield
Charm Person
Sleep
Ray of Enfeeblement
Protection From Evil
Summon Monster I
Silent Image
Identify
Detect Secret Doors
True Strike
Magic Missle
Enlarge Person

Level 2
Invisibility
Baleful Transposition
Ray of Stupidity
Blindness/Deafness
Wraithstrike
Bull's Strength
Glitterdust
Summon Monster II
Web
See Invisibility
Darkness
Mirror Image
Minor Image
Alter Self
Darkvision
Rope Trick

Level 3
Dispel Magic
Haste
Fly
Wind Wall
Slow
Stinking Cloud
Phantom Steed
Summon Monster III
Tongues
Deep Slumber
Heroism
Hold Person
Lightning Bolt
Displacement
Major Image
Ray of Exhaustion
Vampiric Touch
Blink
Shrink Item
Water Breathing

Level 4
Defenstrating Sphere
Stoneskin
Fear
Greater Invisibility
Polymorph
Confusion
Summon Monster IV

Level 5
Teleport
Baleful Polymorph
Greater Blink
Prying Eyes
Telepathic Bond
Wall of Force

Level 6
Greater Dispel
Superior Resistance
Disintegrate
Bite of The Weretiger
Greater Anticipate Teleportation
Contingency

That's what my Wizard spells consist of. So, with this in mind and with what I've said thus far as to what books and such I'm allowed to use, what would you suggest I take as my Sorcerer Spells?

Fireball and Lightning Bolt have all served me well. I agree with Flying too. It's been amazing with Wind Wall.

I would like to thank you all for the responses here. This is a great community full of informative people. I like to read others questions, because it helps me learn more.

I look forward to any future help with what I've listed.

Falrin
2007-12-04, 05:38 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30344 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30344)

Nice place to start.

Few quick guidelines:

1) Never get 2 Spells that do the same. This is especially true for damage spells.

2) Spread your spells on this raster:

__Mass effect|Single Target
F
R
W

In addition get some No save spells & some No SR.

3) look for 'double' spells.
Glitterdust: Blind & Invisibility.
Disintegrate: Damage & Utility.

4) Look at your party.
Is damage covered? You need alround utility (fly?) You need buffs? Defense?
Greater Heroism is a great spell, but when you have a bard your better of with him.

Triaxx
2007-12-04, 06:07 PM
1) Never get 2 Spells that do the same. This is especially true for damage spells.

An exception should be made for spells that do different types of damage. However it's not necessary to know them, but you should carry a few scrolls of each, or a wand.

deadseashoals
2007-12-04, 06:15 PM
Lightning Bolt and Fireball are not redundant. Throwing Fireball down a corridor is a waste of energy. Shooting a bolt of lightning through a doorway is as well.

They don't do exactly the same thing, but knowing both as a sorcerer is foolish at best. Sorcerer spell picks need to be as diverse as possible, and having two spells that deal 10d6 energy, Reflex half is pretty darn redundant. If you're good with lines and bursts, it's very easy to use one in place of the other for almost the same effect.

PolarBearGod
2007-12-04, 08:56 PM
So based on what spells I have as a Wizard, if you were to create a spell list for a sorcerer of 12th level, what would it look like?

EDIT: And why is Polymorph so "powerful"? Excuse me for being so naive on it.

Draz74
2007-12-04, 09:44 PM
Well, since your Wizard spell list looks pretty well-rounded, I will be naming a few spells that your Wizard side already knows, just because they are useful to always have handy and in multiples. Just don't bother preparing them as a Wizard. (As opposed to a specialist Wizard side, where I would try more to emphasize your Banned Schools in your Sorcerer selection.)

Also, I will be working with Core options only ... with one exception.

So:
6th Level
Greater Dispel

5th Level
Teleport
Persistent Image

4th Level
Dimension Door
Greater Mirror Image
Enervation

3rd Level
Fly
Greater Magic Weapon
Suggestion
Stinking Cloud

2nd Level
Shatter
Resist Energy
Glitterdust
Scorching Ray (best blaster spell in Core, or at lower level than 4th)
Alter Self (since Polymorph cheese apparently isn't a problem)

1st Level
Ray of Enfeeblement
Protection from Evil
Grease
Shield
Feather Fall

Here are the spells I really wanted to put on this list, but couldn't make room for, that you can hopefully pick up later:
either Solid Fog or Acid Fog, Shadow Conjuration, Greater Invisibility, Shadow Evocation.

Also, Dimensional Anchor is a lame Sorcerer spell, but should be a high priority for your Wizard side.

Thrawn183
2007-12-04, 09:48 PM
Polymorph.... has 2 problems:
1) It lets you page through books looking for forms that will be situationally perfect for exactly what you are facing at the moment (which makes them more powerful than you would initially think upon reading the description of the spell) and
2) For a Sorceror in particular it offers incredible flexibility, allowing the spell to take the place of multiple spells that you would have otherwise needed to learn.

Its just too good.

Triaxx
2007-12-05, 08:29 AM
They don't do exactly the same thing, but knowing both as a sorcerer is foolish at best. Sorcerer spell picks need to be as diverse as possible, and having two spells that deal 10d6 energy, Reflex half is pretty darn redundant. If you're good with lines and bursts, it's very easy to use one in place of the other for almost the same effect.

Unless you play with light and facing rules like my group does. So instead of opening a door and hearing:

'The hall is revealed to contain X monsters at Y positions.'

We hear:

'A dark hall is revealed.'

So unless a monster is right behind the door, we can't see it. Granted the bat familiar's abilities are handy, but it's still a case of launching a bolt of lightning to hit as many things as possible. Mind you, with Sculpt spell they do then become redundant, except with reguard to elemental resistances.