What's the best option(s) for a melee guy to stop a caster?

[Lokiron]

I'd like to narrow this quite a bit.
I want to know if there are any "best practice" actions for a warrior to stop a caster, prevent him from casting, besides just killing him (assume we can't in one round).

Let's assume we can close the distance in one move action and we have a standard action left. We cannot outright kill him. On his turn he can cast defensively and he can even 5-foot step then cast. Even the Mage Slayer feat only prevents one of those.
What do we do?

Do we just hit him? Grapple? Trip? Ready an action (which)? Equip a reach weapon?

[Zanos]

Reach weapon + armor spikes + mage slayer should take of most of his options. He can't 5ft step out of your reach so he can't cast defensively if you move next to him. Of course there are clever tricks casters can use to get out of such a situation(magic items, prebuffs that allow teleportation, domain powers, the like), but this should take care of the majority of NPC casters. If he withdraws you still get an attack of opportunity because withdraw only applies to the first square, and you can convert that AOO into a trip if you care to.

[Lokiron]

Reach weapon + armor spikes + mage slayer should take of most of his options. He can't 5ft step out of your reach so he can't cast defensively if you move next to him. Of course there are clever tricks casters can use to get out of such a situation(magic items, prebuffs that allow teleportation, domain powers, the like), but this should take care of the majority of NPC casters. If he withdraws you still get an attack of opportunity because withdraw only applies to the first square, and you can convert that AOO into a trip if you care to.

It's a useful combo for someone who cares not for the lost caster levels from mage slayer.

Would it be feasible to replace the mage slayer component of that combo with a readied action: "If he casts, I'll hit him". That would force a difficult concentration check on the caster, right?

[Zanos]

It's a useful combo for someone who cares not for the lost caster levels from mage slayer.

Would it be feasible to replace the mage slayer component of that combo with a readied action: "If he casts, I'll hit him". That would force a difficult concentration check on the caster, right?
Sure, but that has its own limitations; you have to spend your standard action and you only get a single attack, vs. the passive component of mageslayer and using aoos.

You can offset mageslayer with practiced spellcaster if you care to invest more feats in doing that. I don't think most pure melee guys really care about CL, though.

[Ramza00]

Going first, use magic device to use a wand/dorje of the psionic power synchronicity.

Now synchronicity allows you to ready an action which you could do anyway just by going first and using the free action ready to delay your initative.

But the cool thing about synchronicity is for 1 pp you do not need to specify the trigger, just what you are going to do when the lack of trigger “arms” itself, and for 3 pp you can even leave your response of what you are going to do open-ended, just as long as it is a standard or move action.

In return by using the ready action you can force a concentration check in case you do not inflict the status check “dead” via damage, now it is either dead or make a concentration check of 10 + damage dealt:smallredface: a concentration check no sane wizard can make.

Yes it uses that pesky psionics / magic in item form, but it is extremely cheap for 4,500 gp bought for the 3 pp version with 50 charges. Note this logic also applies to archers and spellcasters itself, it is actually the logic behind a sorcerer build called the Mailman which does not use synchronicity just normal ready actions and arcane fusion.

=====

Yes it is kind of a jerk playing style, this blue magic the gathering energy, but it is what it is.

[Zanos]

A synchronicity dorje is good for anyone, but you'll need to get yourself a +19 use psionic device(no skill transparency, remember) consistently, in combat, likely with half ranks and poor charisma, since UPD and Cha aren't normally going to be focuses for melee characters. That probably isn't going to be viable until fairly high levels, even with a custom magic item giving you a bonus to your UPD checks.

Of course if you have a mage slayer and reach/trip/combat reflexes build, it's feat intensive, but you can just use your standard action on your turn to hit the caster, and then hit him some more for free(action wise) when he takes his turn.

[Anthrowhale]

An alternative is using an antimagic item like the antimagic torc. If you apply AM and impair mobility (via, say Thicket of Blades or tripping), many casters have issues.

[Maat Mons]

If you don't mind only stopping certain spells, you can sunder their spell component pouch and/or bring an object under the effects of a Silence spell near them. Also, spells that have a Target entry require the caster to see or touch the target, which means they, too, can be thwarted.

Is there a way to turn melee damage into "continuous damage?"

[Ramza00]

Just a reminder getting total concealment / blocking line of sight is a flat shutdown for many spells.


Aiming A Spell
You must make some choice about whom the spell is to affect or where the effect is to originate, depending on the type of spell. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell’s target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.

Target or Targets
Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
…[more text follows]

Lots of spells require an AC to operate.

Other spells have the target entry and if they can not see you they do not work (they may also have other layers of defenses like saving throws and spell resistance.)

And different spells have an area or an effect that do not require targeting or hitting the enemies AC.

[Eladrinblade]

Grapple is pretty solid. They could have freedom of movement, but your party could have dispel magic. Or you can take a readied action to attack when they cast; that's actually one of the best uses of manyshot.

[Gruftzwerg]

Just a reminder getting total concealment / blocking line of sight is a flat shutdown for many spells.



Lots of spells require an AC to operate.

Other spells have the target entry and if they can not see you they do not work (they may also have other layers of defenses like saving throws and spell resistance.)

And different spells have an area or an effect that do not require targeting or hitting the enemies AC.

1. max Hide
2. Darkstalker feat
3. get HIPS or something similar somehow (e.g. concealment abilities)


As race I would recommend a Whisper Gnome with Extra Silence and Silencing Strike as feats.
Apply your "silence" as Sneak Attack. NO SAVE!

You just need to get Sneak Attack somehow. Either by class or with Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance (requirest Martial Study).

[Lokiron]

Grapple is pretty solid. They could have freedom of movement, but your party could have dispel magic. Or you can take a readied action to attack when they cast; that's actually one of the best uses of manyshot.

When dealing with an enemy spellcaster, a boss maybe, forcing him to cast FoM instead of something that wins him the battle, is good. He might have ways to do that quickly, but he might not. I reckon PCs are more inclined to have swift/immediate actions than NPCs, which is what I'm trying to deal with.

Very interesting point on manyshot. Sometimes, standard actions are actually an advantage. You might say the same thing about Tome of Battle maneuvers, except you need to worry more about reach, than the archer does.

[RandomPeasant]

If you don't mind only stopping certain spells, you can sunder their spell component pouch and/or bring an object under the effects of a Silence spell near them.

Sundering the spell component pouch seems kinda iffy. They could just have another one, and if they do you've made zero progress. silence is good though, because it either harshly constrains what they can cast or forces them to reposition, both of which are good for you.

[Ramza00]

Sundering the spell component pouch seems kinda iffy. They could just have another one, and if they do you've made zero progress. silence is good though, because it either harshly constrains what they can cast or forces them to reposition, both of which are good for you.

The Alphonse‘s brothers both of them making the same exact mistake when fighting enemy spellcasters.

This mistake!

[Lokiron]

From the SRD:
"You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round."

This is actually huge. Very useful for this situation, if you have the move left, of course.

[smetzger]

Mage Slayer
Grapple
Trip
Reach Weapon - Enlarge can help here - increases your natural reach, increases your grapple and to a lesser extent trip
Silence
Way to avoid AoO to get to through the caster's minions...

Tumble
Feat to charge in non-straight line - can't remember the name
ToB has some charge maneuvers that negate AoO while charging


Best option depends on what level you are...

[rel]

Without the investment of specific build resources like mage slayer, a grapple is a good place to start. Especially at low levels.

Provoke the enemies AOO by moving through their threatened area then grapple with impunity.
Once the enemy is grappled, not only can they not walk away, but any spell with somatic or material components isn't available.
If you have multiple attacks, you can follow up with a pin and negate any spell with somatic, verbal or material components.

A lot of magical defences are illusion based (e.g mirror image and blur) so shutting your eyes can sometimes improve your odds of hitting.

If you add the binding enchantment to your armour spikes you can prevent escape via teleportation.