3.5 need a way to gain the Magic Missile Spell as a 1st level spell or SLA

[samduke]

pretty much what the title says
I need a way to gain the Magic Missile Spell as a 1st level spell or SLA, that can grant it to any spell list

Without being a Sorcerer, Wizard or Arcane/Divine caster via arcane disciple feat with access to the Force Domain


Is there a trait or feat that can grant it to a spell list?

Is there a non-wand/staff type magic item that can grant it to a spell list?

EDITED

Found a working answer - thanks

Extra Spell Feat

[Troacctid]

Extra Spell doesn't normally override your normal restrictions for what spells you can select. It just gives you an extra spell known from among spells on your spell list. I mean, unless your DM decides to run it in the other way, I guess.

There is a +0 LA race that gets it as a SLA though: Glimmerfolk, from Dragon #321.

[Crake]

Troacctid is correct, extra spell does not grant off list spells known. What class are you using for this? If its one of the fixed list spontaneous casters like dread necromancer, beguiler or warmage, their advanced learning feature has an ACF known as eclectic learning, which bypasses all the normal school requirements of advanced learning, but increases its spell level by 1, so youd have magic missile, but it would be a 2nd level spell.

[Darg]

If you don't mind being really cheesy, you could start with the Magical Training feat to start with a spell book, wizard spell slots, and an effective caster level equal to your total arcane spellcaster level (min 1). Grab the extra slot feat when you get access to 2nd level spells (the feat doesn't limit it to the class that provides the requisite slot) and add magic missile to your spellbook. Voila, one cast per day.

[Doctor Despair]

If you don't mind being really cheesy, you could start with the Magical Training feat to start with a spell book, wizard spell slots, and an effective caster level equal to your total arcane spellcaster level (min 1). Grab the extra slot feat when you get access to 2nd level spells (the feat doesn't limit it to the class that provides the requisite slot) and add magic missile to your spellbook. Voila, one cast per day.

Could use Precocious Apprentice too if the DM agrees that Magical Training gives you an arcane caster level

[Darg]

Could use Precocious Apprentice too if the DM agrees that Magical Training gives you an arcane caster level

The problem there is getting magic missile as a 2nd level spell.

[Crake]

If you don't mind being really cheesy, you could start with the Magical Training feat to start with a spell book, wizard spell slots, and an effective caster level equal to your total arcane spellcaster level (min 1). Grab the extra slot feat when you get access to 2nd level spells (the feat doesn't limit it to the class that provides the requisite slot) and add magic missile to your spellbook. Voila, one cast per day.

I believe there was a rule somewhere that specified that spellcasting needed to be self referential, just like the game doesnt explicitly say that a mutliclass spellcaster cant use their spell slots for cross class spellcasting, when it says stuff like “highest spell level you can cast” theres an implicit “for that class” behind it.

Afb atm, but i cant for the life of me remember where it was written, mightve been an faq answer, or a web article, cant remember.

[Rebel7284]

Kobolds get the Draconic Rite of Passage ritual that lets them cast a first level spell as a SLA 1/day. That sets your race to Kobold, but Kobold is a particularly good race for many uses if you do things right. There is a kobold mini-handbook somewhere out there.

[pabelfly]

Without any specifics on your class or even what sort of casting you're doing, I can only direct you to this thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?646021-Ways-to-Expand-a-Spell-List

[Darg]

I believe there was a rule somewhere that specified that spellcasting needed to be self referential, just like the game doesnt explicitly say that a mutliclass spellcaster cant use their spell slots for cross class spellcasting, when it says stuff like “highest spell level you can cast” theres an implicit “for that class” behind it.

Afb atm, but i cant for the life of me remember where it was written, mightve been an faq answer, or a web article, cant remember.

The SRD has it in multiclass characters under spells (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm). The PHB implies in the same spot that is how it works considering you need to keep the preparations separate to keep track of what class is casting what.

That said, Magical Training doesn't make you a multiclassed caster. It gives you a spellbook and lets you prepare spells like a wizard. It says nothing about it only being the spells you picked. Extra slot is used for the class free slot. Ghostwalk limited extra slot to a single class, but complete arcane freed it back up when it updated stuff from Tome and Blood. As far as power levels go, it's far from being exceptional as you need to spend your limited feat slots just to cast spells below your level.

[Crake]

The SRD has it in multiclass characters under spells (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm). The PHB implies in the same spot that is how it works considering you need to keep the preparations separate to keep track of what class is casting what.

That said, Magical Training doesn't make you a multiclassed caster. It gives you a spellbook and lets you prepare spells like a wizard. It says nothing about it only being the spells you picked. Extra slot is used for the class free slot. Ghostwalk limited extra slot to a single class, but complete arcane freed it back up when it updated stuff from Tome and Blood. As far as power levels go, it's far from being exceptional as you need to spend your limited feat slots just to cast spells below your level.

I think “prepare spells as a wizard” is pretty straightforward. You may not literally be a multiclassed wizard, but those spell slots function as if you were.

Otherwise you could get 17 levels in cleric, pick up extra slot 8th for your magical training casting, and cast 8th level wizard spells

[Darg]

Otherwise you could get 17 levels in cleric, pick up extra slot 8th for your magical training casting, and cast 8th level wizard spells

That's the cheese. The extra slot feat doesn't care on it's own and there is no general rule that says bonus slots must go to the class that qualifies for it. That's it. Nothing complicated. It's less cheesy than thinking heighten+earth spell qualifies as the ability to caster higher level spells than your class level allows.

[Crake]

That's the cheese. The extra slot feat doesn't care on it's own and there is no general rule that says bonus slots must go to the class that qualifies for it. That's it. Nothing complicated. It's less cheesy than thinking heighten+earth spell qualifies as the ability to caster higher level spells than your class level allows.

Do you believe this can be done with 1 wizard level in place with the magical training feat? Or is it your notion that, because its not officially multiclassed, it doesnt count?

[Inevitability]

If you don't need the spell yourself, and merely need access to the effect, you can get an ice mephit through Improved Familiar.

[samduke]

Extra Spell doesn't normally override your normal restrictions for what spells you can select. It just gives you an extra spell known from among spells on your spell list.


Troacctid is correct, extra spell does not grant off list spells known. What class are you using for this?

This is for a Bard Character, class is set in stone, one feat free for Extra Spell
Magic Items - if any exist please share



(Complete Arcane p79)
EXTRA SPELL
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd
Benefit: You learn one additional spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast. Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time, you learn a new spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can cast.


there is nothing in there that states "extra spell from among spells on your spell list"

[Crake]

This is for a Bard Character, class is set in stone, one feat free for Extra Spell
Magic Items - if any exist please share

If you have sufficient UMD, knowstones or runestaves can cover you on the magic item front. A knowstone of magic missile would be 1000gp, wheras a runestaff would be limited uses per day, and usually comes with other spells on it, so its price would vary.


there is nothing in there that states "extra spell from among spells on your spell list"

Gaining spells off list is the exception, and thus needs to be explicitly called out as such. See the expanded knowledge feat for psionics, which specifically states you can pick powers not on your power list.

This exact circumstance is covered by the FAQ.

[Troacctid]

Given that you are a bard, one fairly cheap way to pick up a 1st-level sorcerer/wizard spell would be to take 3 levels of the lyric thaumaturge prestige class.

If you're open to magic items, then an eternal wand can be used by any arcane caster, even if the spell inside isn't on your class spell list.

[Darg]

Do you believe this can be done with 1 wizard level in place with the magical training feat? Or is it your notion that, because its not officially multiclassed, it doesnt count?

Cheese RAW answer? Yes. Do I play it like that? I have allowed it. It's literally not game breaking in the slightest. A custom domain accomplishes the same thing but better sometimes. Do I allow it to qualify for PRC classes? I probably would if I felt that the PRC gives too much for too little sacrifice. I tend to custom tailor or create novel PRCs to fit the player and setting. It's literally 1 spell per day at a fixed slot at a level lower than your other class and you still need the minimum arcane spellcaster levels to cast the spell. High cost, low reward, no practical cheese. For grabbing a few first level spells? definitely not a problem.

[samduke]

If you have sufficient UMD, knowstones
I looked into this option and it is an option


This exact circumstance is covered by the FAQ.
FAQ is NOT Errata and is NOT RULE, Cite the FAQ so I can read it.


Given that you are a bard, one fairly cheap way to pick up a 1st-level sorcerer/wizard spell would be to take 3 levels of the lyric thaumaturge prestige class.


lyric thaumaturge is on the list to be taken so I could actually take it to level 3, it also seems to solve the isssue

Spell Secret: Thanks to your facility for blending music and magic, you gain additional spells known for each spell level as you gain levels. These spells must be drawn from the sorcerer/wizard list and are thereafter treated as part of your class spell list.
At 3rd level, you gain one additional 1st- and one 2nd-level spell known.

[Crake]

FAQ is NOT Errata and is NOT RULE, Cite the FAQ so I can read it.

Im afb atm, but the argument is that the feat does not bypass the normal restriction of only being able to pick spells from your list, therefore said restriction is still in place.

[Troacctid]

Here is the ruling in question.

Can you take spells from spell lists other than your own with the Extra Spell feat (CAr 79)?
The Extra Spell feat allows you to choose a new spell, but it does not remove the restrictions of how you would normally pick your spells—so they must be picked from your own spell list.

[samduke]

Here is the ruling in question.
Originally Posted by FAQ
Can you take spells from spell lists other than your own with the Extra Spell feat (CAr 79)?
The Extra Spell feat allows you to choose a new spell, but it does not remove the restrictions of how you would normally pick your spells—so they must be picked from your own spell list.


again I need the FAQ cited - somewhere there is an official WOTC that can be either linked or the relatable file (Example: ExtraspellFAQ.txt) then I could google-fu it but NO FAQ ever has been deemed as RAW IIRC. because they are generally opinions

[Remuko]

i am really lenient and always rule based on what I think makes sense.

as such this line:


Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

to me makes literally no sense unless the whole point is to be able to get off list spells. thats my 2cp, explicitly not caring about what may, or may not be "RAW". if the text doesn't make sense by a "RAW" ruling even if theres FAQ or any other such supporting it, I'd personally ignore it and go with, what to me, makes sense.

[Troacctid]

again I need the FAQ cited - somewhere there is an official WOTC that can be either linked or the relatable file (Example: ExtraspellFAQ.txt) then I could google-fu it but NO FAQ ever has been deemed as RAW IIRC. because they are generally opinions
The website has been down for some time. Maybe someone has a Wayback link.


i am really lenient and always rule based on what I think makes sense.

as such this line:



to me makes literally no sense unless the whole point is to be able to get off list spells. thats my 2cp, explicitly not caring about what may, or may not be "RAW". if the text doesn't make sense by a "RAW" ruling even if theres FAQ or any other such supporting it, I'd personally ignore it and go with, what to me, makes sense.
Your quote is missing important context. The full sentence is, "For classes such as wizard that have more options for learning spells, Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research."

In other words, the feat is acknowledging that its primary use is for sorcerers, but that wizards might still choose to take it in the specific case where they want a spell, but haven't been able to find a scroll to copy, and don't have the time/materials required to research it.

For more context, here is how that sentence appeared in the original 3.0 text of the feat from TB: "A 4th-level wizard can likewise learn an extra 0-level or 1st-level spell, but since wizards learn spells far more easily than sorcerers, this feat is of less use to her."

[Menzath]

again I need the FAQ cited - somewhere there is an official WOTC that can be either linked or the relatable file (Example: ExtraspellFAQ.txt) then I could google-fu it but NO FAQ ever has been deemed as RAW IIRC. because they are generally opinions

For the FAQ the only thing I found was a general Monte cook archive. Not very helpful.

The site forgotten realms Fandom wiki has external links to old wotc archive stuff, nothing I could see wotc specific about changes to extra spell feat. So most likely not an official FAQ.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Complete_Arcane

[loky1109]

again I need the FAQ cited - somewhere there is an official WOTC that can be either linked or the relatable file (Example: ExtraspellFAQ.txt) then I could google-fu it but NO FAQ ever has been deemed as RAW IIRC. because they are generally opinions

Look here: https://web.archive.org/web/20190202012756/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

[Darg]

The PHB makes mention that sorcerers and bards can learn spells they don't normally have access to.


These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list (page 192), or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. For example, a sorcerer with a scroll or spellbook detailing an unusual sorcerer/wizard spell (one not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list in this book) could select that spell as one of his new spells for attaining a new level, provided that it is of the right spell level.


When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table 3–5: Bard Spells Known or Table 3–17: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list in Chapter 11: Spells he now knows. With the DM’s permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of (see Spells in the sorcerer description, page 54). For instance, when Hennet the sorcerer becomes 2nd level, he gains an additional 0-level spell. He can pick that spell from the 0-level spells on the sorcerer and wizard spell list, or he might have learned an unusual spell from an arcane scroll or spellbook.

Extra spell doesn't limit it to the spell list because the only thing limiting spells you learn to the spell list is the DM

[JNAProductions]

I see nothing in Extra Spell that overrides the normal restrictions on learning spells from off-list.
The FAQ confirms RAW, but doesn’t alter it.

[Crake]

I see nothing in Extra Spell that overrides the normal restrictions on learning spells from off-list.
The FAQ confirms RAW, but doesn’t alter it.

Correct, I didnt point to the FAQ as a RAW rules source, but rather an eloquent explanation of the existing RAW.

Compare extra spell to expanded knowledge, and youll see what kind of wording is required for you to be allowed to take off-list spells.

[samduke]

The PHB makes mention that sorcerers and bards can learn spells they don't normally have access to.

* is this in the actual text of the class? I do not see such in their text where they talk about spells , but I could be missing it...


RE: FAQ, while some contend FAQ to explain the rule it in and of themselves are not.

Extra Spell: I know why they use wizard in their statement, because they can learn from scrolls, but I am not convinced that any class could use this feat to put a spell on their list that is not normally there.

LAST:
I solved this issue with a 3rd level of lyric thaumaturge


***
Moderators please lock this thread

[Thurbane]

The Dragonblood Spell-pact spell (Sor 5, DoF) theoretically allows you to get Magic Missile for any caster with a "spells known" mechanic, if you can find a willing "donor".

Both the donor and the recipient must be dragonblood beings.