PDA

View Full Version : Lets Improve our Rage!



AOKost
2023-02-27, 03:51 AM
Due to some frustrations on Stack Exchange, I've been unable to find this when I was looking for it, or able to post it after I figured it out myself, because apparently at some point, they stopped allowing question that pertain to both Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons (1e and 3.X respectively). So, for ease of referencing for myself and any that are interested, I've compiled a small list of alternate race, and class abilities, as well as Feats that improve specific ability scores, specifically Strength and Constitution.

Here's my third (actually fourth, while the first 2 questions were closed, the third where I actually give the answer myself, because you can't answer 'closed' questions) attempt:


Since my two previous questions have been closed when there were actually answers to them, I'm making this 'question' and answering it myself for any that are interested before it can be closed.

Is there a way to improve Rage? (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/204033/is-there-a-way-to-improve-rage?noredirect=1&lq=1)

Improving Rage Stats without min-maxing (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/204071/improving-rage-stats-without-min-maxing?noredirect=1&lq=1)

My question breaks down to 'is there a way to improve the bonuses granted by Rage other than gaining Greater and Mighty rage at higher levels?'

The following ways (besides most of the 'alternate rage abilities' like Ferocity, Resiliant Rage, Whirling Frenzy that "simply" more or less shift where the bonus go) are what I've found that fit what I was looking for:

Mountain Rage (Ex) (Races of Stone): When you rage, your size increases to large (Equipment still fits normally), your reach is 10’, you take a –1 to AC. You do not gain in grapple or weapon size since your powerful build has already increased them. You gain +6 to str rather than +4. As you increase in level, you gain more uses of mountain rage in place of the normal rage. Any other bonuses to str from other feats stack with this ability.

While Mountain rage is an alternate racial / class level trade, it still fits what I was looking for.

Reckless Rage (Ex) (Races of Stone): Whenever you activate your rage ability, you take an additional -2 penalty to your Armor Class, but you gain an additional +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution. These bonuses and penalties stack with the effects of rage, greater rage, and mighty rage.

Ettercap Berserker (Ex) (Unapproachable East): You gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against poison. When raging, you gain a +6 bonus to Constitution. During a greater rage, you instead gain a +8 bonus to Constitution.

Khyber's Furry (Ex) (Dragon #332): Benefit: Increase the Strength bonus you receive from rage or frenzy by +2; for example, as a 1st-level barbarian you would gain a +6 bonus to Strength while raging. However, the Armor Class penalty is increased to -4. You cannot choose to voluntarily end your rage; you must remain enraged for the full duration of the effect.

As for Pathfinder Rage Powers, or Feats, or alternate class / racial traits.. I have yet to come across anything that I'm looking for that's pertinent to this post.

Now for the ending quip about 'thanks for closing questions that obviously had answers, besides pointing to a page(s) that I'd already mentioned looking through as having the answers when they in fact, did not..'
..Yes, I'm still a little salty..

Since posting that (and yes, I'm still a little salty), I actually have come across 2 sources from Pathfinder that potentially does what I'm looking for, and those can be found using the Bloodrager Hybrid class, and take either the Abyssal bloodline, or the Hag bloodline... Both the Abbysal bloodline and the Hag bloodline at level 12 increase the Strength score of the Rager, while the Abbysal Bloodline increases it further at 14th and 16th level.


Abyssal Bloodrage (Su): At 12th level, the morale bonus (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Morale-Bonus) to Strength (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Strength-Str-) granted by your bloodrage increases by 2, but the penalty to AC becomes –4 instead of –2. At 16th level, this bonus increases by 4 instead. At 20th level, it increases by 6 instead.

Hag Transformation (Su): At 12th level, your form grows more twisted and powerful while bloodraging, but clumsy, blind aggression clouds your mind. Your morale bonus (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Morale-Bonus) to Strength (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Strength-Str-) increases by 2, and you gain low-light vision (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Low-Light-Vision) and darkvision (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Darkvision) (60 feet), but you take a –2 penalty to both Dexterity (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Dexterity-Dex-) and Wisdom (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Wisdom-Wis-) for the duration of your bloodrage.
At 16th level, you apply your morale bonus (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Morale-Bonus) on Will (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Will) saving throws while bloodraging to Fortitude (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Fortitude) and Reflex (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Reflex) saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Spell-Like-Abilities-Sp-).


If I come across more, I will update this list.

Shinizak
2023-02-27, 06:18 AM
Hey cool! I appreciate these!.

Heads up, this thread will PROBABLY get moved to one of the sub-forums.

RNightstalker
2023-02-28, 03:04 PM
You can request a moderator to open up an old thread.

Eldonauran
2023-02-28, 03:27 PM
Pathfinder 1e:
Amplified Rage (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Amplified%20Rage) - Teamwork feat to greatly boost Str/Con bonuses.
Warleader's Rage (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Warleader%27s%20Rage) - Boosts range of abilities that enhance rage
Raging Vitality (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Raging%20Vitality) - Feat to boost CON bonus and stay raging if unconscious.
Unfettered Rage (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unfettered%20Rage) - Make additional attack at the cost of rage rounds, a penalty to Attacks/AC for a turn.
Blood Vengeance (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Blood%20Vengeance) - An ally dropping or dying boosts Str/Con +2 for 4 rounds

Those are just feats. Depending on HOW you want to boost the effects of Raging (aside from just higher Str/Con) scores, there are a plethora of other feats that add or modify things you can do in a rage.

Biggus
2023-02-28, 07:22 PM
Oriental Adventures p.125. Furious weapon special ability, increases rage and greater rage bonuses by +2. By strict RAW it doesn't work on Mighty Rage, but as Mighty Rage didn't exist when this book came out, it probably should.

Maat Mons
2023-02-28, 11:49 PM
Everything from Sources of Bonuses to Ability Scores updated (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=19943.0) seems to have been covered here already. Also, maybe someone should PM Biggus about adding the Furious weapon special ability to his list. Edit: Wait, no, it was Biggus himself who posted about Furious, so he probably already knows.

Biggus
2023-03-01, 07:10 PM
Everything from Sources of Bonuses to Ability Scores updated (https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=19943.0) seems to have been covered here already. Also, maybe someone should PM Biggus about adding the Furious weapon special ability to his list. Edit: Wait, no, it was Biggus himself who posted about Furious, so he probably already knows.

Ha, I hadn't spotted that it wasn't on there, I'll add it.

ShurikVch
2023-03-01, 08:20 PM
Mountain Rage (Ex) (Races of Stone): When you rage, your size increases to large (Equipment still fits normally)
If you use it with Half-Dragon template - while being Medium (or smaller) - then your character would get so angry they even grow a pair of functional wings... :smallamused:

Feats:
Blazing Berserker (Sandstorm) - Fire subtype during the Rage
Burning Rage (Dragon #314) - +1d6 fire damage
Cobalt Rage (Magic of Incarnum) - invest essentia to the feat, and gain Insight bonus on damage rolls and Will saves equal to essentia invested
Destructive Rage (Complete Warrior) while raging, +8 on Str check to break down doors or break inanimate, immobile objects
Dragon Rage (Eberron Campaign Setting) while raging, +2 natural AC, and +10 to energy resistance of your Dragon Totem
Dragonmark Rage (Dragonmarked) while raging, get fast healing - depends on the strength of your dragonmark (up to 3)
Frantic Rage (Faiths of Eberron) at the start of your Rage, can choose to improve your Dex instead of your Str; required access to the Madness domain
Frozen Berserker (Frostburn) - Cold subtype during the Rage
Ice Troll Berserker (Unapproachable East) while raging, +2 natural AC - or +4 (if Greater Rage)
Instantaneous Rage (Complete Warrior) - Rage as a free action, even if you're flat-footed, even if it's not your turn
Intimidating Rage (Complete Warrior) while raging, can demoralize a single foe within 30' as a free action
Mad Foam Rager (Player's Handbook II) while raging, you can chose to delay effect of a single attack, spell, or ability until the end of your next turn (1/Rage)
Rampaging Bull Rush (Races of Stone) while raging, if you take -4 penalty on a bull rush check, you can automatically trip an enemy which you successfully bull rushed; required Large+ size or Powerful Build

ACFs:
Awesome Charge - 5th level of Fangshields Barbarian (Champions of Valor): while raging, at the end of the charge you can make Awesome Blow - even without prerequisites
Insightful Rage - 5th level of Half-Orc Barbarian (Races of Destiny): +4 to disbelieve illusions while raging
Menacing Rage - 11th level of Barbarian Planar Substitution Levels (Planar Handbook): Outsiders and extraplanar creatures withing 20' of raging Barbarian should make Will save, or get -2 on attacks, checks, and saves against the Barbarian
Unholy Fury - 1st level of Chaotic Evil Barbarian (any alignment change would switch this to "regular" Rage; Exemplars of Evil): during the Rage, Barbarian can Smite non-CE enemy once (it doesn't end the Rage)

PrC:
Firestorm Berserker (Dragon #314) - effect of Instantaneous Rage feat, cold resistance (class level + Con bonus), fire immunity, +1d6 fire damage, BW (10' cone, 3d6+Con bonus fire damage), sacrifice some of your Con to make your Rage last longer, fire damage to those who attacking you, and voluntary end your Rage with AoE (1d6 fire damage per class level for all in 15' - except you)
Primal Rager (Dragon #295) - reduce duration of your Rage and get +1 Str and Con for every "lost" round, put your Rage "on pause", DR 2/- and your unarmed damage is slashing and with +1 size of damage die
Thrall of Kostchtchie (Dragon #345) - get a Favored Enemy during the Rage, get immune to Calm Emotions, and get Fiendish Creature template during the Rage

AOKost
2023-03-02, 01:53 AM
Thank you, truly, everyone! I will add these suggestions in an edit to my original post (in a few days when I'm not on vacation).

If this gets moved, that's fine... As long as it's accessible by everyone, that's all I care about! Answers for questions people haven't thought to ask or try to find yet :smallbiggrin:

Edit: For future reference and clarity (and hopefully simplicity), I will be assuming that the DnD 3.X Rage Strength and Constitution bonuses are 'Moral' bonuses instead of untyped.

In the event of abilities like:


Primal Rager (Dragon #295) - reduce duration of your Rage and get +1 Str and Con for every "lost" round, put your Rage "on pause", DR 2/- and your unarmed damage is slashing and with +1 size of damage die

It will be assumed that the Pathfinder Rage Rounds / Day are being used... I will likely put a cap on the max bonus (maybe +5) so you can't rage once and 'spend' the rest of your rage rounds per day for a singular massive bonus.

pabelfly
2023-03-02, 02:09 AM
One more thing this thread should have - sample builds. If I'm picking optimal feats and classes, what is my rage-themed build going to look like, especially regarding Rage bonuses?

AOKost
2023-03-02, 02:09 AM
You can request a moderator to open up an old thread.


Honestly, at this point (especially since I'm getting the help I was hoping for here) I'm still too frustrated to worry about it. If they want to be stuck up enough to delete my own answer because the first and second questions I asked were closed, and not re-opened when I tried, they can suck a rotten egg for a while.

AOKost
2023-03-02, 02:15 AM
One more thing this thread should have - sample builds. If I'm picking optimal feats and classes, what is my rage-themed build going to look like, especially regarding Rage bonuses?


That's a great idea, but unlikely to be something I, personally, get around to seeing, as the games I play in and run, are homebrew, classless, point-buy system that allows players to 'purchase' virtually any ability they want, as long as they meet the level it's earliest available at (without 'early access' shenanigans). I know this makes it far harder for others to utilize the abilities I'm listing for utilization by others, but I hope their availability, and reference to what system they belong to (and where they can be 'natively' found) will help any that are interested in them.

pabelfly
2023-03-02, 03:34 AM
Okay, decided to make a sample build. Wasn't using Dragmag materials or Pathfinder. Suggestions or tweaks appreciated.

Frostblood Half-Orc, Barbarian 20

1: Dragon Totem (White), Endurance (B)
3: Dragon Rage
5: Blazing Berserker (Wasteland Barbarian ACF)
6: Headlong Rush
9: Channeled Rage
12: Steadfast Determination
15: Mad Foam Rager
18: Reckless Rage

ACFs: Half-Orc Barbarian, Spiritual Totem (Lion), Wasteland Barbarian

Character Notes:
Frostblood Half-Orc gives access to Channeled Rage (exchange Rage uses to get STR to Will Saves) and Headlong Rush (doubled damage). Blazing Berserker fixes our Fire weakness but makes us weak to Ice. Between racial resistance, Dragon Totem and Dragon Rage, we get a -25 energy resistance for ice attacks (let's take the conservative road and presume we apply it after doubling damage). Endurance is a free racial feat and also lets us pick up Steadfast Determination.

We also get +2 to STR and CON from Reckless Rage. AC is unchanged (-2 from Reckless Rage, +2 from Dragon Rage). Mad Foam Rager lets us delay the effects of a single attack, spell or effect by one turn, which can be handy in all sorts of situations.

Other assorted notes - Pounce is always good, Steadfast Determination boosts our Will saves and allows us to completely tank WIS, and Half-Orc Barbarian ACF gives a bonus to attack rolls and damage (which Headlong Rush doubles).

ShurikVch
2023-03-02, 07:56 PM
Some more feats:
Furious Inhalation (Races of the Dragon) - add 2d6 damage of your BW energy type (or fire - if your BW doesn't energy damage) to your bite attack while raging
Fury of Stone (Dragon #333) - double duration of Rage underground; halved duration if not underground
Mounted Fury (https://web.archive.org/web/20161031221521/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) - your mount get all the benefits (and downsides) of your Rage
Raging Bull Rush (Dragon #310) - +4 on opposite check; stacks with Improved Bull Rush
Raging Luck (Eberron Campaign Setting) - 1 temporary action point
Raging Overrun (Dragon #310) - +4 on opposite check; stacks with Improved Overrun
Raging Sunder (Dragon #310) - +4 on attack roll to sunder; stacks with Improved Sunder
Righteous Wrath (Book of Exalted Deeds) - Evil creature damaged by you must make Will save or be shaken (1 per creature per encounter)
Stone Rage (Races of Stone) - if you started your Rage on the ground, you get +1 enhancement bonus to your natural AC

Thurbane
2023-03-02, 08:43 PM
It's going to be a pretty niche case, but there is a citation that Charisma can be used to determine rage duration if you are undead.


Barbarian: There are not many barbarians among the undead, but gangs of barbarian ghouls and ghasts are used as shock troops by the more powerful lords of Xaphan. A raging undead barbarian does not gain an increase in Constitution (or anything dependent upon Constitution such as hit points or Fortitude saves) but uses its normal Charisma modifier instead of its Constitution modifier to determine how long a rage lasts. Because undead are immune to fatigue, an undead barbarian is not penalized when a rage ends.

Biggus
2023-03-04, 01:44 PM
Okay, decided to make a sample build. Wasn't using Dragmag materials or Pathfinder. Suggestions or tweaks appreciated.

Frostblood Half-Orc, Barbarian 20

1: Dragon Totem (White)
3: Dragon Rage
5: Blazing Berserker (Wasteland Barbarian ACF)
6: Headlong Rush
9: Channeled Rage
12: Steadfast Determination
15: Mad Foam Rager
18: Reckless Rage

ACFs: Half-Orc Barbarian, Spiritual Totem (Lion), Wasteland Barbarian

Character Notes:
Frostblood Half-Orc gives access to Channeled Rage (exchange Rage uses to get STR to Will Saves) and Headlong Rush (doubled damage). Blazing Berserker fixes our Fire weakness but makes us weak to Ice. Between racial resistance, Dragon Totem and Dragon Rage, we get a -25 energy resistance for ice attacks (let's take the conservative road and presume we apply it after doubling damage).

We also get +2 to STR and CON from Reckless Rage. AC is unchanged (-2 from Reckless Rage, +2 from Dragon Rage). Mad Foam Rager lets us delay the effects of a single attack, spell or effect by one turn, which can be handy in all sorts of situations.

Other assorted notes - Pounce is always good, Steadfast Determination boosts our Will saves and allows us to completely tank WIS, and Half-Orc Barbarian ACF gives a bonus to attack rolls and damage (which Headlong Rush doubles).

How are you getting Steadfast Determination without Endurance?

pabelfly
2023-03-04, 02:03 PM
How are you getting Steadfast Determination without Endurance?

Frostblood Half-Orc gets it for free. I'll edit the post.

Vizzerdrix
2023-03-04, 02:30 PM
I've always wanted to play a tidbit mountain rager. :smallbiggrin:

SirNibbles
2023-03-04, 04:40 PM
Cheesy, but you can take the Quick Burning Rage flaw from Dragon Magazine #325 which reduces your rage's duration by 3 rounds*. This allows you to pick up the Extended Rage feat from Masters of the Wild for 5 extra rounds of rage.

*It's possible to have a different interpretation of the way the feat actually functions that would prevent Extended Rage from working.