Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

[Wraith]

Welcome to the latest installment of discussion threads for Questionable Content (http://questionablecontent.net/), a M-F"slice of life" comic in which life is defined by coffee, robots, Butts Disease (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2016), and spontaneous metal interludes (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=666).

You have been warned.

Links To The Past
Questionable Content 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140480)
Questionable Content 2: Espresso With Extra Scorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176418)
Questionable Content 3: Ironically Quite Popular (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194380)
Questionable Content 4: Attack of the 60-Inch AnthroPC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215953)
Questionable Content 5: Suffers Occasional Outbreaks of Butt's Disease (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242665)
Questionable Content 6: Murder Mode (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280941)
Questionable Content 7: Will Work For Makeouts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?328150)
Questionable Content 8: OMG I SHIP IT! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?383478)
Questionable Content 9: To Kill a Yelling Bird (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?433481)
Questionable Content 10: La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503452)
Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531481)
Questionable Content 12: Artificial Unintelligence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?548806)
Questionable Content 13: It's YOU Who Is The Dork! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563685)
Questionable Content 14: I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?578277)
Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?589216-Questionable-Content-XV-I-HAVE-MORE-QUESTIONS!-I-Told-You-This-Thread-Was-Weird]Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird[/url]
[URL="https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610991-Questionable-Content-XVI-Yes-Butt)
Questionable Content XVII: "My Brain Is Trash And I Live On The Internet" (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631466-Questionable-Content-XVII-quot-My-Brain-Is-Trash-And-I-Live-On-The-Internet-quot)
Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news" (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?645291-Questionable-Content-XVIII-quot-That-s-only-sort-of-good-news-quot)
Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?654533-Questionable-Content-XIX-Give-Jeph-Just-A-*Little*-Credit-Here&p=25719874#post25719874)

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Last time on Questionable Content: Claire visits an island made entirely out of Red Flags, has two separate angry/screaming tantrums, encounters another employee literally mid-mental health crisis due to her abysmal working conditions, tried to leave the place at least once, and has uncovered negligence and disarray of staggering proportions....

....But she isn't sure if she will take the job or not. Who knows? Could go either way.

[Traab]

Full disclosure, I thought that was winslow at first. Or whatever hannerlores anthro pc was called. I honestly forgot pintsize had a human sized body now.

[Rodin]

Full disclosure, I thought that was winslow at first. Or whatever hannerlores anthro pc was called. I honestly forgot pintsize had a human sized body now.

I did the same. It's the pink shirt, which is similar enough to Winslow's skin color that your brain fills in the rest as Pintsize and Winslow look quite similar now. Yesterday's comic suddenly made a lot more sense when I read the forum posts here and realized my mistake.

Once I got past that though the actual content is a big improvement. We've asked what Marten is going to do on an island full of crazy scientists with his total lack of motivation and education. It's good to see his friends acknowledging how potentially damaging the move could be for him.

[Traab]

Honestly, he works in a library now, its distressingly likely he would just work under claire (hur hur) which is an obvious prelude to relationship drama. Basically, he is the dogsbody running around to take care of all the little tasks while she is trying to create a framework with which she can organize everything.

[Ionathus]

Yeah, I’m glad that this conversation about Marten’s passivity has lasted for a full two strips. Makes me feel like maybe it’s going to be treated like an actual problem and source of conflict - the comic’s been lacking in any conflicts with actual dramatic teeth since May got her new chassis, Faye got sober, and Bubbles opened up.

[Mechalich]

Yeah, I’m glad that this conversation about Marten’s passivity has lasted for a full two strips. Makes me feel like maybe it’s going to be treated like an actual problem and source of conflict - the comic’s been lacking in any conflicts with actual dramatic teeth since May got her new chassis, Faye got sober, and Bubbles opened up.

Hard to say. It's not actually that big of a problem. Lots of people go through life with unfulfilling jobs that merely pay the bills. The trick is filling up the other aspects of life. Marten has a romantic partner and a great circle of friends. Count off: Faye, Hannelore, Dora, Tai, Steve, Pintsize and Bubbles as a very conservative estimate. That's seven, putting him in the top quintile of American close friends among American men.

Insofar as Marten has a problem, it's that any attention he once paid to the interest at the center of his life - music - seems to have vanished. He no longer appears to be in a band or doing anything music related. However, this is a relatively easy problem to solve. He just needs a little push to join a band - or probably an 'Advanced Audio Formulations Research Group' assuming the move to Cubetown happens - and have band-related antics.

A significantly more interesting issue if whether or not Marten and Claire wish to consider children. Fatherhood seems like an interesting challenge to throw at Marten, but given the circumstances it seems highly unlikely to arise as an issue, certainly not in the short term since Claire is going to be very busy for some time. Instead, I suspect he'll pseudo-adopt Elizabeth and probably a suitable wacky AI in due course as has happened many times before.

Alternatively, there is the issue that Claire, by acquiring vast responsibility running Cubetown appears to be metamorphizing into a different person. That could and should place a lot of stress on Marten and force him to consider the relationship going forward, but the issue isn't that Marten's overly passive, it's that Claire has been transformed unreasonably.

[Vinyadan]

Insofar as Marten has a problem, it's that any attention he once paid to the interest at the center of his life - music - seems to have vanished. He no longer appears to be in a band or doing anything music related. However, this is a relatively easy problem to solve. He just needs a little push to join a band - or probably an 'Advanced Audio Formulations Research Group' assuming the move to Cubetown happens - and have band-related antics.

And then the Director said, "Marten, you are young, patient, aimless, and love jamming! You are absolutely unqualified, but what if I paid you a hundred billion trillion to ___________?"

[Cikomyr2]

No joke, I only now realized we were talking to Pintsize. I genuinely thought for a few days this was Winslow.

[Keltest]

Jeph's robots being interchangeable? Perish the thought.

[Delicious Taffy]

Why are they talking about threatening Marten? "It would totally work"? Work for what? Why? What do they think he's done?

[geoduck]

Why are they talking about threatening Marten? "It would totally work"? Work for what? Why? What do they think he's done?

It's what he's going to do, maybe, once Claire and he move to Cubetown and she's making enough money for them both to live off of: sit around and be even more passive and directionless.

[theangelJean]

I thought it was the opposite: they think his life needs she shaking up, and Cubetown could actually be good for him in that regard. If they don't want him to move, they need to think of an alternative that accomplishes the same goal i.e. moving him out of his comfort zone. And "threat" is the opposite of "comfort", in a way... But I don't think they're seriously considering it.

[Traab]

Honestly, I dont really get this obsession everyone in comic seems to have with motivating marten. The dude is content with his life. He has a great girl, has a job that he doesnt mind that pays the bills, he has friends that he hangs out with. What exactly do they want him to do?

[Rodin]

Honestly, I dont really get this obsession everyone in comic seems to have with motivating marten. The dude is content with his life. He has a great girl, has a job that he doesnt mind that pays the bills, he has friends that he hangs out with. What exactly do they want him to do?

I've always felt this too. Some people don't need a lot out of life, and Marten has a lot more than many people. If he was alone and friendless I can see family worrying over his future, but his social life is pretty close to ideal. It's fair for them to worry about his financial situation, but if he sticks with Claire he would be the supplemental income to her bacon bringing.

Money issues aside, the biggest issue I could see is depression due to being rudderless...except he has Claire to lean on, and he has never shown any difficulty in making friends. He's not ambitious, but the one time he was out of a job he was motivated enough to go out and get another job pretty quickly. So again, where's the problem?

I will say that this isn't a comic criticism though - as a similarly "un-motivated" person I've run into the same concerns. I can totally believe that Marten's friends would worry about a perceived problem that doesn't exist...or at least, not in the form they think it does.

[Wraith]

Honestly, I dont really get this obsession everyone in comic seems to have with motivating marten. The dude is content with his life. He has a great girl, has a job that he doesnt mind that pays the bills, he has friends that he hangs out with. What exactly do they want him to do?

I agree. Marten has been the most consistent and reliable person in the comic since it started, and suddenly that's a bad thing and he should be not only criticised but potentially threatened? Seems unfair to me.

Marten got his job in the library by being clever, he has more friends than he knows what to do with across a broad spectrum of types (compare Jimbo to Hannelore!), he has a good relationship with his family, he gave Faye a home within days of first meeting her, he treated Claire, Emily and Gabby with care and confidence when they started as interns, he plays music in a band whenever he wants to, he paid ALL of the apartment's rent while Faye was drunk and fired from Coffee of Doom, and he's now going out of his way to be supportive of Claire while she got through her exams, looked for work, and is now being driven nuts by Cubetown. Being comfortable and responsible is not the same thing as aimless.

But suddenly Faye - who absolutely IS wasting her talent for art and hardly works even when she does show up - assumes that he will just stop doing ANYTHING at all and become a layabout? He's been gone for like, 4 hours and they already have such a low opinion of him.

[Vinyadan]

I have to say that Marten has been written like a gentle 80-year old man for a very long time, and I wasn't exactly surprised when his ideal life sounded like a retiree's. But now he's back in a situation where he has to show some backbone and call a-holes a-holes, making him young again!

But yes, it's weird that people think he needs to be prodded. It's one thing to need purpose, but it's a completely different one to need drama. Faye has purpose, because she's recovering from alcoholism and suicidal tendencies. Bubbles has purpose, because she's recovering from robo-PTSD and social isolation. They both have purpose, because lots of people helped them out, like Dora, Marten, Yay, and probably more, which allowed them to become small business owners, aka America's most respected people. Now they can have the purpose of making their relationship work while they enlarge their operation.

So, what should Marten aim for, given he already has mental stability, a job, personal interests, friends, and a girlfriend? Money? Since when does anyone in this comic care about that? A socially prestigious position? Again, who cares?

This "aboulic Marten" thing immediately struck me as unorganic, when it came up a long time ago. Fundamentally, the plot had relied on Marten's pushoverism to progress, but now it assumed that it was a problem Marten had, without coming up with alternative, positive behaviours capable of advancing the plot.

One could also say that it isn't a plot thing, it's a character thing, and maybe that's the best way of understanding it: Faye has a lot of things on her mind and automatically assumes everyone's life should be as hers, so she's more or less pitching self-employment. It's never explicitly stated, but it's a situation that can happen. But what about Pintsize? I have no idea of why he would think those things. If someone is aimless, that's him.

Elliot did have a lesson for Marten, and he gave it to him without too much trouble. It made sense. It was quick and poignant. And it was due to Marten being a doofus in a way that insulted him.

[Mechalich]

Hmm...I'm going to try to puzzle this out a bit.

Step One: the comic must have drama to function, that's fundamental to the sitcom-like setup.

Step Two: while Cubetown offers essentially endless opportunities for office drama, Jeph does not know how to right effective office drama. Insofar as the comic has featured drama in the workplace it has always been about personal issues - ex. Faye's alcoholism, Corpse Witch being a monster - and not about actual office issues. The recent AI assembly line arc also makes it clear that Jeph simply fundamentally doesn't understand the modern workplace, which isn't really surprising, he hasn't been part of it for two decades now.

Step Three: Claire is 'teh bestest' and will more or less immediately succeed at any challenge placed in front of her regardless of how unreasonable that might be. While this serves as useful wish-fulfillment that apparently appeals to someone in Jeph's audience, cutting through problems via the sword of personal awesomeness is also antithetical to drama. As such, nothing dramatic can be anchored to the Claire half of the plot. This is absolutely a self-inflicted wound, but the pattern is fairly clear by now.

Step Four: None of Cubetown's characters are real characters capable of having real character drama, at least not yet. A character like Elizabeth could become one, but that'll take time, while the AIs are hopeless.

Step Five: consequently, Marten is the only character currently tied to the Cubetown half of the plot who can serve as a dramatic focus. Therefore, drama has been thrust upon him.

And...it's not entirely unreasonable that a person faced with a move to a foreign country, a massive change in their spouse's career and financial circumstances, and the loss of personally satisfying job might face some kind of crisis. Especially if we treat the inhabitants of Cubetown as if they are foreigners from a deeply distant culture. Imagine, for example, if Claire got a spectacular job offer from, hypothetically, an international archives group in Thailand, where Marten doesn't know anyone, doesn't speak the language, and doesn't understand the flow of life. I can certainly see him at risk of wandering about aimlessly like Scarlet Johannsen in Lost in Translation. That said, Jeph is putting the cart way before the horse here.

[Manga Shoggoth]

One thing that has just occured to me: Does anyone remember how Marten came to Northampton in the first place? Following a girlfriend who went out there for a job. I wonder if Jeph is revisiting the idea in a new context.

[Wraith]

So, what should Marten aim for, given he already has mental stability, a job, personal interests, friends, and a girlfriend? Money? Since when does anyone in this comic care about that? A socially prestigious position? Again, who cares?.

A thread on Reddit has pointed out something that aligns with this that sort-of explains it; For some reason, a lot of the QC cast have suddenly picked up "grind culture".

The idea that at all times you should be monetizing what you're doing, whether that is slaving away to progress in a career for 70 hours per week or otherwise doing something productive, like turning your hobbies into a side-hustle that you sell on etsy. Always working, all the time, gotta get that bread! And Marten isn't doing that, so it opens him up to criticism.

....Except that no one in the comic has previously shown that mentality. Characters like Fay are the antithesis of it, finding a niche where she can get paid $5000 for a sculpture and suddenly deciding 'nah, don't wanna' because 'reasons', but apparently 'owning a small business where she wanders out for coffee every 20 minutes' qualifies so it absolves her, or something.

The truth is, Marten taking a back-seat to support Claire's ambition *is* a worthwhile goal. He's been her rock and biggest supporter for years, why shouldn't he continue to do so until she's up and running in her career before he picks up something active for himself? Generations of our parents did the same thing, (usually) Dad working full-time while Mom worked part-time or stayed home with the kids. It's a bit old-fashioned to think of nowadays, but why not update it with a gender-flipped relationship in Marten and Claire? In fact, that's probably the only way one COULD do it nowadays; just imagine the backlash if a male protagonist started a high-flying career and his female partner immediately took on a passive support role? It'd be decried as archaic and sexist, and rightfully so.

"I want to help the person I love get to where they want to be" really shouldn't be devalued or seen as 'lesser'.

[Keltest]

I think the concern is that if Martin is doing actually nothing while in Cubetown, it will negatively affect his relationship with Claire. Stay-at-home parents from previous generations werent just sitting on the couch strumming guitar all day after all, they basically had a full time job themselves playing homemaker.

[Delicious Taffy]

And where's this idea even coming from, that Marten would be just sitting around with nothing to occupy his time? Seems like a complete fabrication pulled from the deepest reaches of the universe's rear end, since he's never once remotely indicated he was gonna do it.

[DaFlipp]

Step Three: Claire is 'teh bestest' and will more or less immediately succeed at any challenge placed in front of her regardless of how unreasonable that might be. While this serves as useful wish-fulfillment that apparently appeals to someone in Jeph's audience, cutting through problems via the sword of personal awesomeness is also antithetical to drama. As such, nothing dramatic can be anchored to the Claire half of the plot. This is absolutely a self-inflicted wound, but the pattern is fairly clear by now.


Where the heck is this coming from? When has Claire previously been depicted as “more or less immediately” defeating all problems that come her way? She spent out-of-comic years plodding away at an academic degree that nearly destroyed her with anxiety and stress, only to then spend an extended arc trying and failing to find work (while her hilariously unqualified boyfriend continued to coast through a job she would’ve loved to have as a jumping-off point for her career).

As fast as I’m aware, the Cubetown job falling in her lap is the only outright lucky break she’s gotten, and even that is still threatening to break her brain due to nonsense poisoning.

[Wraith]

There are one or two legitimate examples, but they're quite minor.

For example, when Claire first moved in with Marten, she immediately wrote him a cheque for 1/4th rent. She's never had a job except as an unpaid intern, so where did that money come from? Her student loan maybe, but it's never mentioned as a problem before or after.
And then after her exams, she spent what is presumed to be months looking for work without any breaks and money was never mentioned as an issue, until nepotism got her a job in her friend's coffee shop (after criticising Marten because she thought he did the same thing at the library).

She's also gone on extended monologues about LGBTQ rights and hostility against them, and how Pintsize's flippant attitude towards body modification could be perceived as a cruel taunt of transgender people... But no one in the comic has ever, ever said or done anything that isn't entirely 100% pro-LGBTQ. Not even the random by-standers who heckled Bubbles for being tall. Not even Pintsize, for a "joke".

See what I mean? She got frazzled by her exams, but only because she's a dork with no chill who completely over-prepared to score 99% in her final exam (which she then complained about and started asking about a resit). No one else has put an obstacle in her way, she's pretty much imagined her own problems and they generally turned out not to be a big deal.

Personally, I think the Cubetown job is an easy decision - she absolutely should NOT take it, in the same way that there is no amount of money that I could be paid to go and work at Chernobyl. I think it's mostly just a matter of what she'll ask for instead - she'd be way better as some kind of HR or Careers Advisor, than she would in some kind of technical IT role, and she'd still be able to move to Cubetown if that's what the plot demanded.

[Traab]

His general laidbackedness has been portrayed as a problem throughout the comic at various points. The lack of drive to advance beyond where he currently is treated like some sign of impending doom, and its always been odd. The worst part is, there was so much pot calling the kettle black it baffled me. Early on faye was a homeless barista with absolutely no drive to do anything more, despite being a highly skilled artist. Yes she had her own trauma to deal with but even so, basically the only driven person in the entire comic is dora and she is often portrayed as a neurotic mess. Always stressed out, overworked, demanding, etc. Everybody else in the comic is generally fairly laid back. Dale probably had the most hustle and that was because he had to work like 3 jobs to afford rent before he met marigold and moved in and dropped it to one job at the coffee shop. But somehow marten is the one its a problem for. I admit that its going to be a major shakeup for marten to move to cubetown and being worried about what he will do is reasonable. But being worried because you think he is some unmotivated schlub is out of line. If there is work, he will find it. He has never been one to shirk what needs to be done.

[Rodin]

There are one or two legitimate examples, but they're quite minor.

For example, when Claire first moved in with Marten, she immediately wrote him a cheque for 1/4th rent. She's never had a job except as an unpaid intern, so where did that money come from? Her student loan maybe, but it's never mentioned as a problem before or after.
And then after her exams, she spent what is presumed to be months looking for work without any breaks and money was never mentioned as an issue, until nepotism got her a job in her friend's coffee shop (after criticising Marten because she thought he did the same thing at the library).

She's also gone on extended monologues about LGBTQ rights and hostility against them, and how Pintsize's flippant attitude towards body modification could be perceived as a cruel taunt of transgender people... But no one in the comic has ever, ever said or done anything that isn't entirely 100% pro-LGBTQ. Not even the random by-standers who heckled Bubbles for being tall. Not even Pintsize, for a "joke".

See what I mean? She got frazzled by her exams, but only because she's a dork with no chill who completely over-prepared to score 99% in her final exam (which she then complained about and started asking about a resit). No one else has put an obstacle in her way, she's pretty much imagined her own problems and they generally turned out not to be a big deal.

Personally, I think the Cubetown job is an easy decision - she absolutely should NOT take it, in the same way that there is no amount of money that I could be paid to go and work at Chernobyl. I think it's mostly just a matter of what she'll ask for instead - she'd be way better as some kind of HR or Careers Advisor, than she would in some kind of technical IT role, and she'd still be able to move to Cubetown if that's what the plot demanded.

This is all too harsh. 25% rent for a 2-bedroom apartment is not an unbelievable amount of money to have on hand from savings. Also, has it ever been explicitly stated that the internship is unpaid? The student jobs at my university were all paid positions that people used to supplement their incomes above their student loans. She could also be receiving support from Aurelia. It's an extremely petty complaint in a comic that has always run on the Friends economy for the entire cast. None of them should be able to lead the lifestyles they lead.

The LGBTQ thing is real world vs what Jeph chooses to portray in the comic. There was a guest comic posted about this very issue in fact! The people who aren't pro-LGBTQ wouldn't be welcome in the cast's friend group, and Jeph has chosen not to feature storylines dealing directly with real-world hate. He instead decided to look at the issues through the lense of AIs, and even then he got criticized for being too on-the-nose with that portrayal. Heck, I've criticized him for dragging social issues into his wacky sitcom. The lack of heckling from Pintsize was also addressed - Marten made clear that was Not Cool and Pintsize respected that because even he has boundaries.

So what about the comic in question? My impression has always been that he didn't think about the parallel when he wrote the preceding comic (or previous "robot gets a new body" arcs) and had been pulled up by people in his fandom. He took the criticism onboard and wrote Claire's speech as a form of apology and to expand awareness. After that, he moved on.

[Mordokai]

Seems to me this is the motivation for Claire to take the job. Elizabeth is going to say Cubetown is ruining her life by hiring her and then giving no direction or organization. Claire wants to turn the job down, but goshdarnit what about Elizabeth? Claire is just the person to give her structure and save her career!

This seems to be pretty on mark, as far as today's comic goes.

[Ionathus]

Ugh, never have I been so annoyed to have guessed correctly.

Remember, kids, “yeah it’s a disaster but surely I’ll be able to fix it!” is a catastrophe waiting to happen, in both your love life and your career.

[Wraith]

This is all too harsh.

Absolutely true, I was taking liberties for (what I hope came across as) comedic effect. :smallsmile:

At the same time though, your response sort of goes on to prove my point, in a way? Claire probably should have student loans out the wazoo - she's a Master after all, that's another 3 years of school - and no history of employment, as I think she refers to CoD as her first job, at one point? That's where I got the impression that her internship was unpaid, but I may be wrong.

So either her mom has paid (some of? much of?) it for her, or money just doesn't matter except when it does. That makes money not an obstacle, she just has 1/4 share of what Google says is around a $4000 per month apartment on hand for months after she graduated, and we go with it.

Same with the LGBT+ representation - Jeph has chosen not to portray the real world stuff in his comic, which I think was a very wise move as he doesn't have a great track record with his handling of sensitive topics. It does mean that the comic often tries to have its cake and eat it though, as characters monologue about discrimination and bigotry that we never see happen, except for that one time when the funny blue person got mad and her head fell off. We infer that it happens in the comic, but the comic also has robot-people and invisible sentient hovercars that clearly divide it from our world, and it becomes a tell-don't-show thing.

Like I said, they're minor examples, but y'know what I mean? The conflicts end up being kind of toothless because they're so ill-defined, and when they're vague and the efforts to overcome them are handwaved away, I can see how it would look like a problem was easily overcome.

[Mechalich]

I should note that when I said Claire is 'teh bestest' I meant current Claire, as in the Claire who seems to have undergone a massively transformative personal experience by having Dora write 'prioritize your needs' on the Coffee of Doom blackboard. The speech Claire makes in panel 3 of comic #4996 is not a speech the Claire of a thousand comics ago would have ever made.

@Ionathus is completely correct that the most recent comic, by any sort of objective evaluation, is of a person headed for a massive disaster of the personal, the professional, or both. However, would anyone here actually be willing to bet that Claire's going to fail?

That's the problem, and it's actually part of a larger trend in the comic in recent times, in that there's been a very strong tendency to misalign plots to scale. For example, take the Marigold case. The plot is that Marigold changes careers and this causes a realignment of characters in her personal orbit and offers a way out of retail for May. Reasonable enough on its face. The problem is that Jeph miscalculated and made Marigold a phenomenally successful vtuber of the sort that it makes no plausible sense given her personality, the overall timeframe involved, or her desperate concerns for secrecy. It happened in the AI assembly-line rights case too: Roko going on a 'drunken' rant was a perfectly in character thing for her to do. That doing so solved all their problems was ludicrous.

The current plot, wherein Claire goes on a journey of personal discovery that involves turning a bizarre holistic commune into something like a functioning research group by using good old-fashioned library know-how is, described as I just did, fine. The problem is that Cubetown is too big, too dysfunctional, and too alien for this to be at all reasonable.

[The Glyphstone]

I still think the Director is a peer in power/ability to Yay, but where Yay clung to humanity, the Director went the opposite direction.

[Ionathus]

I should note that when I said Claire is 'teh bestest' I meant current Claire, as in the Claire who seems to have undergone a massively transformative personal experience by having Dora write 'prioritize your needs' on the Coffee of Doom blackboard. The speech Claire makes in panel 3 of comic #4996 is not a speech the Claire of a thousand comics ago would have ever made.

Perhaps Dora's CoD blackboard has magical self-actualization powers? Is that what's been slowly eradicating all sources of interesting drama from the plots?


@Ionathus is completely correct that the most recent comic, by any sort of objective evaluation, is of a person headed for a massive disaster of the personal, the professional, or both. However, would anyone here actually be willing to bet that Claire's going to fail?

Not in a million years. Claire has gone full creator's pet and will succeed at this instantly (after precisely two strips of "oh wow this is really hard but I'm gonna do it because I Believe In Liz For Whatever Reason"). I just don't think Jeph has the guts or the chops to write a failure arc. He did, once upon a time with Faye, but I think he's out of practice and he truly doesn't have any interest in doing it anymore - why risk the status quo when it's a lot easier, more gratifying, and seemingly popular with the target audience on Patreon to shoot for "cozy low-stakes" plots instead?

QC has always been some level of slice-of-life wish-fulfillment, but the small believable ways the characters struggled (Faye with her substance dependence and fraught romance life for instance) made it feel very relatable. Nowadays, I just can't relate to any part of the comic. The characters all succeed instantly at whatever job or personal struggles they have. The AI elements are suddenly way more prominent but Fear Not! They don't change society in any truly meaningful way! They're just pastel people walking around who we occasionally invoke for tonally-iffy real world social commentary.

I've been hoping that things would at least go off the rails in an interesting way. But even Cubetown is shaping up to be just more bland wacky AI hijinks. It's hard to feel much of anything about any of it.

[Delicious Taffy]

Last we saw, Claire was storming off to scream into a pillow. It looks like her and Marten are on the boat home now, but it also looks like they're on the balcony of an apartment. Whichever one it is, I guess Claire never specified which pillow she was gonna scream into.

[WKnightofHyrule]

Anyone else feels like this could be the end of the Comic like it feels like almost everyone is in a soon to be happy ever after state.

[Vinyadan]

Anyone else feels like this could be the end of the Comic like it feels like almost everyone is in a soon to be happy ever after state.

Not really: Marten is about to start a gastronomy business and Claire is about to take a job she can't do, so in a realistic model there will be a lot of cursing involved.

It's still going better than how I had imagined it: I though there would have been a scene with an exhausted Marten lost on the ice pack, pursued by a crazed Canuck with swirling eyes and a club, screaming "Come here, baby seal!", until Marten slips and falls on his back and screams to the approaching man: "I'm not a seal! I'm Marten, dammit!" And the Canuck answers: "Good, good: Martens have good fur, too!"

[Ionathus]

Isn’t Marten, like, famously bad at coffee stuff?

Like sure he’s spent a lot of TIME in coffee shops, but I feel like I remember him getting roasted (lol coffee puns) for his barista abilities and his lack of good taste.

Why coffee why not just give him a band what is happening ugh

[Rodin]

Isn’t Marten, like, famously bad at coffee stuff?

Like sure he’s spent a lot of TIME in coffee shops, but I feel like I remember him getting roasted (lol coffee puns) for his barista abilities and his lack of good taste.

Why coffee why not just give him a band what is happening ugh

Yeah, he made the worst latte Dora has ever tasted. He's never shown any ability for making coffee, he's never shown any desire to run a business, has no experience at running a business, is the wrong personality type to run a business...so of course, he's going to run a business.

Sigh.


Anyone else feels like this could be the end of the Comic like it feels like almost everyone is in a soon to be happy ever after state.

This is why Jeph explicitly said the comic won't end. Because it would, in theory, be a place to end the comic. It's about Marten's time in Northampton, it would end when he left.

Frankly, I think it would be a better idea.


Last we saw, Claire was storming off to scream into a pillow. It looks like her and Marten are on the boat home now, but it also looks like they're on the balcony of an apartment. Whichever one it is, I guess Claire never specified which pillow she was gonna scream into.

They're on the apartment balcony that crazy security person was on before.


Not in a million years. Claire has gone full creator's pet and will succeed at this instantly (after precisely two strips of "oh wow this is really hard but I'm gonna do it because I Believe In Liz For Whatever Reason"). I just don't think Jeph has the guts or the chops to write a failure arc. He did, once upon a time with Faye, but I think he's out of practice and he truly doesn't have any interest in doing it anymore - why risk the status quo when it's a lot easier, more gratifying, and seemingly popular with the target audience on Patreon to shoot for "cozy low-stakes" plots instead?

QC has always been some level of slice-of-life wish-fulfillment, but the small believable ways the characters struggled (Faye with her substance dependence and fraught romance life for instance) made it feel very relatable. Nowadays, I just can't relate to any part of the comic. The characters all succeed instantly at whatever job or personal struggles they have. The AI elements are suddenly way more prominent but Fear Not! They don't change society in any truly meaningful way! They're just pastel people walking around who we occasionally invoke for tonally-iffy real world social commentary.

I've been hoping that things would at least go off the rails in an interesting way. But even Cubetown is shaping up to be just more bland wacky AI hijinks. It's hard to feel much of anything about any of it.

The job thing is especially frustrating. I've never had a problem that everybody was working in a coffee shop and managing to pay the bills with little effort because it's meant to be a sitcom. You don't focus on the job and characters don't lose their job for longer than an episode at a time. Giving the characters instant-mega-success calls attention to the job in a very unhealthy way.

If we had this exact same arc but it was Claire interviewing for a small library I would have much fewer complaints. I wouldn't even care if the library was in Northampton - it's unrealistic that there would be a head librarian job available in the smallish town at the exact moment Claire graduates, but it's easy enough to handwave that away in service of the plot. Instead we got...this.

[Mechalich]

The job thing is especially frustrating. I've never had a problem that everybody was working in a coffee shop and managing to pay the bills with little effort because it's meant to be a sitcom. You don't focus on the job and characters don't lose their job for longer than an episode at a time. Giving the characters instant-mega-success calls attention to the job in a very unhealthy way.

It also helped that the characters were living in Massachusetts, a state with one of the highest minimum wages in the country, in a small city not in a major metro with a declining population and their apartments were decent but a long ways from posh. The characters were unreasonably comfy, but it was mostly in ways that could be elided. For example, no one ever experienced a nasty dental issue that required a $1,000+ out of pocket expense dropped into their uninsured mouth, but fictional characters can safely just live in a world were dentistry never happens.


If we had this exact same arc but it was Claire interviewing for a small library I would have much fewer complaints. I wouldn't even care if the library was in Northampton - it's unrealistic that there would be a head librarian job available in the smallish town at the exact moment Claire graduates, but it's easy enough to handwave that away in service of the plot. Instead we got...this.

There are so many ways this arc could have been done better. The central elements are that rich AIs establish a wacky research institute but it's a mess and when Claire unexpectedly gets a job offer there she ends up realizing that in order to advance her career she's going to have to wade through some deep dysfunction.

The wacky research institute part is fine. Super rich AIs already exist in the comic. Having one of them establish a wacky research institute on something the scale of a building is nothing. Real life super-rich people do that all the time. Cubetown is simply too big. Even having such a research institute hire Claire is fine, if it had been explained as a bit of unconscious networking. Claire, after all, is no more than a single degree of separation from two AI superintelligences, Station and Yay, along multiple pathways. Either one could easily nudge her application across a metaphorical desk an the appropriate moment. And, really, having a rich friend-of-a-friend or friend-of-a-parent quietly arrange to get you a job is simply bog-standard. Instead the Director is simply too weird for that very functional explanation to hold.

[Vinyadan]

Am I remembering it wrong, or did Marten drink coffee in a rat-infested room from a mug he didn't know much about?

[Willie the Duck]

Am I remembering it wrong, or did Marten drink coffee in a rat-infested room from a mug he didn't know much about?

He certainly poured (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4985)himself a cup, although I guess we didn't see him drink it. Why?

[Vinyadan]

He certainly poured (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4985)himself a cup, although I guess we didn't see him drink it. Why?

Leptospirosis, mostly, and various other rat-borne illnesses that don't come to mind right now. Now, that would be a twist!

[Wraith]

He certainly poured (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4985)himself a cup, although I guess we didn't see him drink it. Why?

In the very next comic, he pours it out into the bright yellow Hazardous Materials box behind him. Or possibly its just a random box, who knows?

I'm just aghast at how utterly bat-shot insane the logic has to be for Claire to want to stay in this place. Solving Liz's problems is NOT going to be her job either as Director of IS or as a Librarian. and it would be incredibly unhealthy for her to yoke her own personal success to solving the problems of every orphaned rando she stumbles across, and I can't stop thinking of a dozen comics where Dora has explained - in sleep deprived and partially starved detail - how hard it was to open her shop after years of working as a barista elsewhere but Marten is just 'maybe I'll do it, whatever' about opening a coffee shop in a town where 90% of the population don't have stomachs and and and

Who thinks this is good storytelling? Who wants this level of naked Author's Pet-ism? And how to we find those people and tie them into a sack and then throw that sack into the sea for their own good?

[Mordokai]

In the very next comic, he pours it out into the bright yellow Hazardous Materials box behind him. Or possibly its just a random box, who knows?

I'm just aghast at how utterly bat-shot insane the logic has to be for Claire to want to stay in this place. Solving Liz's problems is NOT going to be her job either as Director of IS or as a Librarian. and it would be incredibly unhealthy for her to yoke her own personal success to solving the problems of every orphaned rando she stumbles across, and I can't stop thinking of a dozen comics where Dora has explained - in sleep deprived and partially starved detail - how hard it was to open her shop after years of working as a barista elsewhere but Marten is just 'maybe I'll do it, whatever' about opening a coffee shop in a town where 90% of the population don't have stomachs and and and

Who thinks this is good storytelling? Who wants this level of naked Author's Pet-ism? And how to we find those people and tie them into a sack and then throw that sack into the sea for their own good?

At this point, I'm... you know what, I'm not going to say I believe Jeph suffers from schizophrenia*. I mean, there are signs pointing to it, but I honestly don't believe it.

But where does that leave us? Him pandering to the base? Lack of common sense? Already mentioned author's pet syndrome?

Speaking of it, what's the next level of author's pet? Is there such a thing? Because if we haven't sped past it already, I believe we are fast approaching it.

I'm going to say it. This is bad writing. And as, I believe it was Ionathous(apologies if I got your name wrong or if I misattributed the statement) said... it's not like I'm only reading this heap of garbage because of fond memories and hoping against hope that it will get better again, when it likely never will.

Further apologies if I got the gist of the message wrong, but I'm too tired/drunk to go back and check it.

*Yes, I know I just said it. Kindly disregard me putting my foot in my mouth so overtly :smalltongue:

[tyckspoon]

I'm just aghast at how utterly bat-shot insane the logic has to be for Claire to want to stay in this place. Solving Liz's problems is NOT going to be her job either as Director of IS or as a Librarian. and it would be incredibly unhealthy for her to yoke her own personal success to solving the problems of every orphaned rando she stumbles across, and I can't stop thinking of a dozen comics where Dora has explained - in sleep deprived and partially starved detail - how hard it was to open her shop after years of working as a barista elsewhere but Marten is just 'maybe I'll do it, whatever' about opening a coffee shop in a town where 90% of the population don't have stomachs and and and


Selling terrible coffee to customers who don't drink it and are just there for the performative experience of being in a Human Coffee Shop is probably actually a viable business plan in Cubetown, at least as long as there's no meaningful competition.

[Vinyadan]

Selling terrible coffee to customers who don't drink it and are just there for the performative experience of being in a Human Coffee Shop is probably actually a viable business plan in Cubetown, at least as long as there's no meaningful competition.

It could just be the same cup of coffee over and over, like the peanuts of certain bars in real life...

[Wraith]

Selling terrible coffee to customers who don't drink it and are just there for the performative experience of being in a Human Coffee Shop is probably actually a viable business plan in Cubetown, at least as long as there's no meaningful competition.

Well, I guess this concludes any mystique over Marten's inevitable success.

He opens a 'coffee shop' that has some sparkly lights projected on the ceiling, plays some vaguely non-chart music from a bluetooth speaker in the corner, sells shots of Draino, and becomes wildly successful as a "sensory experience" to the sheltered, pastel cretins of Cubetown who fall over themselves to throw money at him. He makes one cup of actual coffee per month, which gets mounted atop a floating black monolith who then ascends into the sky for unknown reasons.

Dora then justifiably turns purple and explodes through sheer outrage, because 10 years of putting blood, sweat and tears into your personal passion is for chumps. :smalltongue:

[PhantomFox]

Could it be that they're being written out of the story and this is their happily ever after with the details being glossed over since they're not going to be focused on again outside of the occasional cameo?

[Ionathus]

Speaking of it, what's the next level of author's pet? Is there such a thing? Because if we haven't sped past it already, I believe we are fast approaching it.

The (original) subreddit has a running joke that all the other characters should start saying “Where’s Claire?” any time she’s not in a scene. I think that’s about the only step left to take, short of renaming the comic to Clairestionable Clairecerns.


(apologies if I got your name wrong or if I misattributed the statement)

No no, you pretty much hit the nail on the head - unfortunately :P


Selling terrible coffee to customers who don't drink it and are just there for the performative experience of being in a Human Coffee Shop is probably actually a viable business plan in Cubetown, at least as long as there's no meaningful competition.

Ugh, that’s what it’s gonna be, isn’t it? Wacky AI hijinks to prop up Marten’s *sigh* coffee business, handily justifying why he manages any success despite literally every factor being against him.


Could it be that they're being written out of the story and this is their happily ever after with the details being glossed over since they're not going to be focused on again outside of the occasional cameo?

Never in a million years. If Jeph writes Claire out of his comic, I will eat my hat. Hell, I’ll eat everyone’s hats.

[halfeye]

Never in a million years. If Jeph writes Claire out of his comic, I will eat my hat. Hell, I’ll eat everyone’s hats.

I'm pretty sure the "they" in question was the other characters.

[The Glyphstone]

Have we just abandoned any pretense of not being a Dominic-Deegan-style hate/snark thread by now?

[Vinyadan]

Never in a million years. If Jeph writes Claire out of his comic, I will eat my hat. Hell, I’ll eat everyone’s hats.

Dude, we already have a Wraith in this thread, we don't need a Ghost of Ionathus trapped between worlds because, while in life, he promised to eat everyone's hat and now some maiden of pure heart has to eat her grandad's hat so the curse can be broken.

[Wraith]

Have we just abandoned any pretense of not being a Dominic-Deegan-style hate/snark thread by now?

Not quite. Jeph has posted on his Patreon that he is A) definitely not ending the comic and B) will be switching between Cubetown and Northampton as his whim dictates, and if the comic is going to be 50% non-Cubetown then that is a 100% improvement over the current status quo and I'm kind of willing to see what he can do with the other characters while they're not sucked into its terrible terrible orbit. :smalltongue:


Dude, we already have a Wraith in this thread, we don't need a Ghost of Ionathus trapped between worlds because, while in life, he promised to eat everyone's hat and now some maiden of pure heart has to eat her grandad's hat so the curse can be broken.

For the record, I only promised to eat my own posts - and have never yet been required to follow through with that promise. :smallwink:

[Rodin]

Not quite. Jeph has posted on his Patreon that he is A) definitely not ending the comic and B) will be switching between Cubetown and Northampton as his whim dictates, and if the comic is going to be 50% non-Cubetown then that is a 100% improvement over the current status quo and I'm kind of willing to see what he can do with the other characters while they're not sucked into its terrible terrible orbit. :smalltongue:


That seems like a really odd decision, authorially. You have two groups of characters with no intersecting points, other than very occasional crossovers (Marten going to Dora's wedding). Any plots would run completely independently at the expense of the other location, exacerbating the jokes about not seeing a particular set of characters for a lengthy period of time. There have always been characters who don't interact much, but they've always had a shared core group.

For that matter, there's not a lot of story currently going on in Northampton. There's the wedding plans, and Jeph could finally decide to advance Faye and Bubble's business storyline. Other than that, what is there? More Marigold goblin hijinks? More Mommy-Milkers? Repeat Roko's Relentless Robot Rights Riot?

[georgie_leech]

I mean, there are worse developments the comic could have than the creation of a specifically Whacky Robot Shenanigans setting that is far away from the more sitcom-y bits everyone is complaining are getting overshadowed by the whacky robot shenanigans :smalltongue:

[Rodin]

I mean, there are worse developments the comic could have than the creation of a specifically Whacky Robot Shenanigans setting that is far away from the more sitcom-y bits everyone is complaining are getting overshadowed by the whacky robot shenanigans :smalltongue:

Don't get me wrong, less than 100% Cubetown (and less Claire as she is currently being written) is an absolute win.

It's just a really weird thing to do. If QC is a sitcom, then Cubetown is the spinoff. Only he isn't going all-in on doing a spinoff.

Chief O'Brien moves with his family to DS9, and we get introduced to a whole new cast of characters. This is required, because he has no contact with the old Enterprise crew. Throw in Worf too, even though it took him several seasons to move over.

Only instead of an episode of DS9 every week, we might get an episode of TNG instead. Or not. Who knows? They aren't running concurrently, and each show only gets an episode depending on the whims of the author that week.

Does that sound like a healthy setup?

[Ionathus]

Have we just abandoned any pretense of not being a Dominic-Deegan-style hate/snark thread by now?

I try not to purposely engage with things I dislike, because who has the time for that, but it's hard to separate that from "I used to like this thing and I want to like it again." Venting about the direction QC is going and talking to others who feel the same is cathartic for me, at least for now. Not sure how long I'll cling to that if I continue to actively dislike the story.


Dude, we already have a Wraith in this thread, we don't need a Ghost of Ionathus trapped between worlds because, while in life, he promised to eat everyone's hat and now some maiden of pure heart has to eat her grandad's hat so the curse can be broken.

I've never haunted a webcomic thread before - an exciting opportunity!


Not quite. Jeph has posted on his Patreon that he is A) definitely not ending the comic and B) will be switching between Cubetown and Northampton as his whim dictates, and if the comic is going to be 50% non-Cubetown then that is a 100% improvement over the current status quo and I'm kind of willing to see what he can do with the other characters while they're not sucked into its terrible terrible orbit. :smalltongue:

This is my hope. I really enjoyed the old dynamic, and even some of the new stories too. If the comic splits into two narratives, it would be easier (if tedious) to just skip the parts I don't care about and come back when we return to Northampton.


For that matter, there's not a lot of story currently going on in Northampton. There's the wedding plans, and Jeph could finally decide to advance Faye and Bubble's business storyline. Other than that, what is there? More Marigold goblin hijinks? More Mommy-Milkers? Repeat Roko's Relentless Robot Rights Riot?

This will probably be the thing that makes it or breaks it for me. If we use the Northampton time to actually dig in to Union Robotics or Pintsize grappling with being a real boy or May being a horrible gremlin, I'd keep reading. If we fixate on Yay, Roko's RRRR, Clinton & Elliot's toothless milquetoast romance, and more horrible vtuber plots, I think my days as a reader are numbered. And yes, I realize how ludicrously naïve it sounds to expect the former when the latter is clearly Jeph's line of interest :(

[Wraith]

That seems like a really odd decision, authorially. You have two groups of characters with no intersecting points, other than very occasional crossovers (Marten going to Dora's wedding). Any plots would run completely independently at the expense of the other location, exacerbating the jokes about not seeing a particular set of characters for a lengthy period of time. There have always been characters who don't interact much, but they've always had a shared core group.

I've mentioned before that I think Jeph's job of creating daily content is terrifying. The pressure to think up a joke or a single story, however vague, can't be easy after a couple of years, let alone 15 or more, which explains why he hammers every situation to repetitively and goes back to things that had a natural finish and keeps going with them no matter what. The urge to use every scrap of inspiration and never let a single one go unused, no matter how illogical, must be overwhelming, because if you don't use it today, what will you use...?

If this is what it takes to flex his creativity or to give him a way to experiment without affecting his main product... fair enough. He can always get Claire fired and move back to Northampton if he needs to, there's far less way out if he ends QC and fails at starting a new comic.


Other than that, what is there? More Marigold goblin hijinks? More Mommy-Milkers? Repeat Roko's Relentless Robot Rights Riot?

There's a bunch of relationships to go back to - Clinton/Elliot, Brun/Millifeulle, Rene/Dan, Sam/Emmett, May/Sven, to name a few. Plus whatever Pintsize is going to do if Marten moves away, more yoga with Willow and Iris, Hannelore doing her thing training Claire's replacement, even Winslow adjusting to working at the AI non-profit some more? That's not even considering marginal characters like Momo, Jim and Veronica... I'd quite like to see more of the last two, to be honest, I like their dynamic.

[The Glyphstone]

If we're bringing old characters back, can we get Will and Penelope?

[Rodin]

If we're bringing old characters back, can we get Will and Penelope?

I was about to say. That list of characters is...oof. I don't like most of them. It's weird that Momo is a marginal character to Millefuelle.

On running a webcomic - it's super impressive that Jeph has kept up a 5-day webcomic for so long. No snark, that's just damn impressive.

But I can't help feel that we would be getting a better comic if he would give up on doing that. Move to 3 days a week. Take a month off to build up a strip buffer and plan story arcs. He updates more often and more regularly than webcomics authored by multiple people (The Foglios, Gabe and Tycho, Dr. McNinja when it was running, etc. etc.) and I think that's to the strip's detriment at times. Just look at the latest arc, where we took a week to get through a backstory other webcomics would tell in a day. The need to fill space becomes really obvious sometimes.

[Wraith]

I was about to say. That list of characters is...oof. I don't like most of them. It's weird that Momo is a marginal character to Millefuelle.

The last time I remember seeing Momo was way before the yoga arc, when May was first hired as Marigold's assistant. That's... what, 450? 500 strips ago? She didn't show up at all throughout the vtuber stuff, to which she was sort-of-kind-of adjacent, and the last time she had a story arc to herself was.... Talking to Bubbles about the fighting ring while she still worked there some 3000 strips ago?

As for the others, I don't necessarily like a lot of them, but I am still interested in seeing how they might get into trouble with each other and what sort of mess they can make - not that I want to see them suffer, but seeing them screw up and deal with the consequences has way more potential than Cubetown, which clearly isn't going anywhere.

[Johanny]

But I can't help feel that we would be getting a better comic if he would give up on doing that. Move to 3 days a week. Take a month off to build up a strip buffer and plan story arcs. He updates more often and more regularly than webcomics authored by multiple people (The Foglios, Gabe and Tycho, Dr. McNinja when it was running, etc. etc.) and I think that's to the strip's detriment at times. Just look at the latest arc, where we took a week to get through a backstory other webcomics would tell in a day. The need to fill space becomes really obvious sometimes.

IIRC, he said that he tried building a buffer and that it ended being a bad solution for him.
Also he always had a need to fill space, but he stopped all but Bembo's fillers.
No I'd say that the problem is that we moved away from his target audience.
I liked Roko's crusades and her dissociations problems. But since years, solutions to the cast's problems are way too quick and flawless to begin to draw interest...

[tomandtish]

The last time I remember seeing Momo was way before the yoga arc, when May was first hired as Marigold's assistant. That's... what, 450? 500 strips ago? She didn't show up at all throughout the vtuber stuff, to which she was sort-of-kind-of adjacent, and the last time she had a story arc to herself was.... Talking to Bubbles about the fighting ring while she still worked there some 3000 strips ago?

As for the others, I don't necessarily like a lot of them, but I am still interested in seeing how they might get into trouble with each other and what sort of mess they can make - not that I want to see them suffer, but seeing them screw up and deal with the consequences has way more potential than Cubetown, which clearly isn't going anywhere.

Last appearance of MoMo was comic 4602 (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4602). So right at the start of the yoga arc. We're on 4999, so 397 comics ago, or roughly 79 weeks ago. (So a year and a half).

[Wraith]

Eh, not bad for a guess :smalltongue: Although I did forget the time she went to Union Robotics to get her hair regrown, so "only" about 1000 strips since she did something more than appear for 1 panel in someone else' plot? May still had her old chassis, so I think I'm not too far off.

[Mordokai]

I'm going to preface this with the preamble that will probably surprise precisely no one. That being, I am once again drunk.

I should probably get counseling for that. The addiction seems to be getting out of hand. But be that as it may, that's a problem for another day.

Be that as it may... it seems this is the only way I am able to communicate my thoughts, even in an online space. And right now, I want to say the following.

I've read Jeph's thoughts on the latest comic. That one being the 5k.

First of all and totally non-snarky... congratulations dude. You did more than I probably ever will. At least on the artistic front. As has been mentioned already by Rodin(I think), it couldn't have been easy to come up with a comic every day for 13+ years.

But, as has also already been mentioned... the quality of the comic in its entirety has suffered for it. I will neither be providing the proof for that, nor elaborating on it. I think Jeph and his work speak for themselves.

I am honestly happy he finds enjoyment in his work again. My cynical self is wondering why he pushed for so long if he didn't enjoy it, but hey, we humans are weird like that, so I'll be content with that explanation.

With that in mind... I no longer want to subject myself to this compost. I went back... altogether eleven comics. And I do believe it has cemented what I've long suspected.

Claire is the cancer on this comic. At least as she is portrayed now. And I feel confident in stating that no matter what Jeph does from now on... nothing will ameliorate that disease.

I suspect I knew that for a long time now. I posit the only thing keeping me reading QC was... you guys and gals. And that is not a complaint. I am genuinely grateful to you for that. It was fun reading how much of a quagmire QC has become. I felt validated because of it. It felt... good.

But enough is enough. No more schadenfreude. No more hate-reading.

No more QC. As of now, I am done with it. I wish Jeph and all his characters the best, but I no longer wish to be a part of their journey.

Sadly, this also means no more GitP QC. This topic was pretty much my last link to GitP. Thank you for reading my thoughts and sometimes even replying to them. I liked feeling a part of the group.

I will miss you guys. I will do my best to not check back. But all the same... all the best.

To each any everyone of you. It has been my greatest pleasure.

[Cikomyr2]

Don't get me wrong, less than 100% Cubetown (and less Claire as she is currently being written) is an absolute win.

It's just a really weird thing to do. If QC is a sitcom, then Cubetown is the spinoff. Only he isn't going all-in on doing a spinoff.

Chief O'Brien moves with his family to DS9, and we get introduced to a whole new cast of characters. This is required, because he has no contact with the old Enterprise crew. Throw in Worf too, even though it took him several seasons to move over.

Only instead of an episode of DS9 every week, we might get an episode of TNG instead. Or not. Who knows? They aren't running concurrently, and each show only gets an episode depending on the whims of the author that week.

Does that sound like a healthy setup?

DS9 would have been so much richer if they allowed themselves to break from their formula of "one crew on a space station".

Instead of Worf rebuking Gowron and getting exiled in Way of the Warrior, have him join Gowron and try to steer klingon politics. Show the growing emnity between Firebrand Changeling Martok and Worf, voice of reason. Have him have his own bloody spinoff plot, where he occasionally interact with the main crew and their Klingon issues.

[geoduck]

DS9 would have been so much richer if they allowed themselves to break from their formula of "one crew on a space station".

Instead of Worf rebuking Gowron and getting exiled in Way of the Warrior, have him join Gowron and try to steer klingon politics. Show the growing emnity between Firebrand Changeling Martok and Worf, voice of reason. Have him have his own bloody spinoff plot, where he occasionally interact with the main crew and their Klingon issues.

Finances are a problem here. You spin Worf off doing his own thing, that means a whole second set of actors, props, sets, costumes and makeup. (Especially if everybody's a Klingon...)

[MoonCat]

Well, Claire accepted the job and has already ceded to pressure on her first policy of no party. And based on Liz's suggestions, I strongly suspect her fallback of small party is going to go out the window too.

I don't like to immediately jump on newest comics to point out a problem, as sometimes it becomes apparent that Jeph might be intentionally creating it to resolve later. I remember originally this thread was posting that Jeph was cluelessly making Moray a terrible interviewer, when it is now clear he wanted her to be read as incompetent.

That being said, I'm certainly not optimistic that the narrative arc of Claire whipping Cubetown into shape is presaged well at all by this immediate backing down and the promise of wacky chaos.

[Scarlet Manuka]

I'm confused. Everyone's been complaining about how Claire is getting unrealistic, effortless wins in everything, and is in no way qualified for the job she seems to be receiving. Are we now complaining because it looks like she's actually not going to be completely effective in that job right from the start?

[Mechalich]

I'm confused. Everyone's been complaining about how Claire is getting unrealistic, effortless wins in everything, and is in no way qualified for the job she seems to be receiving. Are we now complaining because it looks like she's actually not going to be completely effective in that job right from the start?

It's the ping-pong effect. Jeph can't seem to commit to any single framing for well, anything, regarding Cubetown and as a result the inconsistencies keep piling up. And this only extends to the comic overall as the commentary on the current comic implies that Jeph's going to bounce back between Cubetown and Northampton, which is a recipe for disaster given how the comic is already overstretched (and you just know he's going introduce a half-dozen minor characters at this party).

[Ionathus]

I don't like to immediately jump on newest comics to point out a problem, as sometimes it becomes apparent that Jeph might be intentionally creating it to resolve later. I remember originally this thread was posting that Jeph was cluelessly making Moray a terrible interviewer, when it is now clear he wanted her to be read as incompetent.

If I remember that discussion from back when the interview happened, most people acknowledged that Jeph was intentionally casting Moray as an incompetent manager.

I can't speak for others, but my reaction back then focused on how incompetent she - and Cubetown by extension - appeared. The interview wasn't just a bad interview - it was so crammed full of red flags that having Claire even consider the offer strained credibility for me.

And on top of that, I was annoyed that Claire's "prioritize you're [sic] own needs" character growth arc culminated in "I'm going to exercise my self-confidence by immediately picking the absolute worst workplace possible."

[Wraith]

And on top of that, I was annoyed that Claire's "prioritize you're [sic] own needs" character growth arc culminated in "I'm going to exercise my self-confidence by immediately picking the absolute worst workplace possible."

I'm similarly amazed as to how "prioritize your own needs" has gone from "be a girlboss" and morphed into "babysit other people who are helplessly reliant on you".

Claire coming out of her shell and taking job hunting more seriously could have been a good arc, but taking up a poorly defined job with no boundaries, oversight, accountability, goals, guidance or target in order to be metaphorically wiping butts in Cubetown is in no way the same thing, unless all your only need is to be in control of other people.

It's almost Freudian as to how Jeph's version of 'strong woman' is almost universally either an overbearing mother-figure, someone who resorts to violence, or both.

[Ionathus]

It's almost Freudian as to how Jeph's version of 'strong woman' is almost universally either an overbearing mother-figure, someone who resorts to violence, or both.

I don’t see this as a repeated problem, rather a unique one for Claire. Who aside from Claire is playing nanny to the cast? They all seem to be taking care of themselves well enough. Roko is competent at the AI rights org, but only in some ways and her dynamic with Beeps and Nelson is handled well enough imo.

And the only one I can think of who resorted to violence is Faye. And only then in the early days - she’s mellowed out as “casual violence among friends/romantic partners ha ha” has fallen out of favor in some circles, including Jeph’s seemingly.

[BRC]

Eh, it's an easy pattern for both Drama and Comedy.

You have a Wacky Character, and a Sensible Character.

Wacky Character has some problem, the solution is obvious from the outside, but the wacky character is too wacky to accept that solution.

Reasonable Character comes in and says "Hey, Wacky Character, you should do the Reasonable Thing"

Wacky Character protests in amusing ways, but they know their reasons are bad, so they quickly give in.

See: Roko and the AI rights Organization. Yay and Claire's Streamer Mom. Heck, even the "Marigold gets a business manager" plotline follows that pattern (Although May as the "Reasonable character" is an unusual choice).


Cubetown seems to be set up for an endless parade of these scenarios, probably Feat: Martin if the problem is social/interpersonal, and Claire if the problem is professional.


Jeph seems to prefer female characters, and female character+ Sensible Character as outlined above pretty easily reads as "Overbearing mother figure telling you that if you need to put your legos away if you want to stop stepping on them"

[Vinyadan]

*gasps* Martenbot?

[Willie the Duck]

And the only one I can think of who resorted to violence is Faye. And only then in the early days - she’s mellowed out as “casual violence among friends/romantic partners ha ha” has fallen out of favor in some circles, including Jeph’s seemingly.

Faye was a snarling wolverine in many ways and it was coded as amusing instead of a behavioral problem a little too often. When Dora was deliberately coded as being irrationally jealous when dating Marten she occasionally threatened people with a sword or other such things. And Brun threatened Clinton with a harpoon gun one time. Jeph has clearly moved on from said characterizations, and I'd say still being hidebound to it/hung up on it/convinced it speaks to Jeph's personal gender inter-relations would be the Freudian behavior, but to each their own.

As to nanny/mother-hen characters, it really depends on how you look at it. As BRC points out, there is just 'the Sensible One' as a sitcom standby, and that is half the cast at times (with many of them rotating between that and 'the Wacky One' depending on whether their idiosyncrasy is being agitated at the moment (ex: Hanners can be the one to tell Marigold to get it together over a nerd-culture obsession until she gets dirty, then she runs around screaming and Marigold gets to be the adult, etc.). Bubbles is often Faye's 'Rock,' but much more as a Voice of Reason/Island of Stability rather than a nanny.

[halfeye]

Brun threatened Clinton with a harpoon gun one time.

Shot-gun retconned into a harpoon. A harpoon-gun is a huge thing, not man-portable.

[Ionathus]

Jeph has clearly moved on from said characterizations

Agreed.


As to nanny/mother-hen characters, it really depends on how you look at it. As BRC points out, there is just 'the Sensible One' as a sitcom standby, and that is half the cast at times (with many of them rotating between that and 'the Wacky One' depending on whether their idiosyncrasy is being agitated at the moment (ex: Hanners can be the one to tell Marigold to get it together over a nerd-culture obsession until she gets dirty, then she runs around screaming and Marigold gets to be the adult, etc.). Bubbles is often Faye's 'Rock,' but much more as a Voice of Reason/Island of Stability rather than a nanny.

Yeah, I'm with you on this. Being "the sensible one" in a given interaction isn't the same as being typecast as a mothering figure. Nobody in the comic (except for Cubetown & Claire more recently) has gotten to that point. For the most part, everyone in the comic is actually pretty reasonable about interacting with each other and respecting people's autonomy and maturity, even while dealing with wAcKY SheNaNigaNS


When Dora was deliberately coded as being irrationally jealous when dating Marten she occasionally threatened people with a sword or other such things.

"You know him?" "Carnally. On a regular basis." remains maybe my favorite strip in the whole series. Dora's crazed expression, the wordplay of "know," the pacing of the setup dialogue, the reappearance of Chekhov's Sword thunking into the table...It's just an expertly-executed joke that hit all the right notes for me.

[SaintRidley]

I guess Claire's first order of business should be explaining the concept of sexual ethics to the Director/Moray and why a wet t-shirt contest shirt is inappropriate for the typical workplace.

[Ionathus]

I guess Claire's first order of business should be explaining the concept of sexual ethics to the Director/Moray and why a wet t-shirt contest shirt is inappropriate for the typical workplace.

It's possible that Jeph is entirely self-aware of how far he's taken Moray and is in on the joke on this one. I try to make it my default assumption that webcomic creators don't bend their stories on the whims of forum whiners.

But it's hard to read yesterday's t-shirt strip as anything other than a direct "Take That!" against audience complaints that Moray is just a barely-justified walking fetish.

[Vinyadan]

I wonder if that's actually a dead Moray's shirt.

[KillianHawkeye]

But it's hard to read yesterday's t-shirt strip as anything other than a direct "Take That!" against audience complaints that Moray is just a barely-justified walking fetish.

How is it a "take that"? Doesn't a wet t-shirt contest just confirm what people dislike about Moray? :smallconfused:

[Ionathus]

How is it a "take that"? Doesn't a wet t-shirt contest just confirm what people dislike about Moray? :smallconfused:

I consider it a possible "take that!" in the sense that he's pretty directly acknowledging full author awareness that Moray looks naked and it's creeping out a portion of the audience. At the same time, he's continuing to build jokes around it and shows no indication of planning to de-sexualize her supposed nudity.

If she had a more endearing personality or was less frustrating as a plot element, I would probably be willing to extend more grace here. But Moray just aggravates me, so any passing level of self-awareness of the weirdness of her character feels deliberate, even spiteful ("you hate Moray? Great. I'm adding more Moray."). It's probably just a personal thing, but like I said, it feels intentional.

[Rodin]

Shot-gun retconned into a harpoon. A harpoon-gun is a huge thing, not man-portable.

Harpoon gun (https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-36746)

They're used for fishing, rather than the giant ones used for whaling.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Harpoon gun (https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-36746)

They're used for fishing, rather than the giant ones used for whaling.

Better known (in the UK, at least - I've never heard them described as harpoon guns), as a spear gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speargun).

[halfeye]

Harpoon gun (https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-36746)

They're used for fishing, rather than the giant ones used for whaling.

Harpoon (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3212)

Rhubarb.

[Rodin]

Harpoon (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3212)

Rhubarb.

Ah my mistake.

Point still stands though, harpoon guns can be just as portable as a handheld harpoon. It all depends on the size of the animal you're hunting.

As to the naming business, I literally Googled "harpoon gun" and the first result was an example of an actual harpoon gun made in 1910 in Birmingham, England. There's quite a few more further down the search results, including one that's supposed to be the inspiration for the harpoon gun used by James Bond. Quite a few of the historical mounted harpoon guns were also man-portable in theory, clocking it at only a meter or so long. They'd probably have one hell of a recoil though.

The terminology appears to be interchangeable, as even some of the spearguns I saw referenced were said to shoot harpoons.

[Willie the Duck]

Look, I didn't know how to find the comic in question quickly and used TVTropes, where they mentioned the harpoon. My brain did not retain that and I was thinking speargun (which seemed like something that would more easily be drawn over a shotgun, in my mind, then a harpoon), but somehow wrote harpoon gun. We do not need to (unless people really want to) go into a longwinded tangent on the differences between harpoons, spearguns, and (what wikipedia apparently thinks are most commonly called) harpoon cannons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_cannon).

Re: Moray and 'take that's -- Jeph is not Randy Milholland. If he's going to do anything take-that-ish with his audience, it's going to be mostly in the 'yes I see you' level, rather than in the 'I feed on your bitter rage' level. I suspect Moray will stick around, but most of the humor will be in the 'I'm aqueous!' brand of humor -- seats getting wet, not being able to keep a cell phone cause she keeps shorting it out, etc.

Re: today -- perfectly normal '19 y.o. nerdish type doesn't know what kind of beer they want' thing is fine. Marten and Claire were going to find out what the bartender would give her anyways, why didn't they order what they really wanted (I'm assuming they have favorite beers, even through we haven't seen a drinking episode for quite some time). Maybe Jeph (who sobered up before moving to Canada, right?) doesn't have enough Canadian beer jokes to drop names here.

[Keltest]

Look, I didn't know how to find the comic in question quickly and used TVTropes, where they mentioned the harpoon. My brain did not retain that and I was thinking speargun (which seemed like something that would more easily be drawn over a shotgun, in my mind, then a harpoon), but somehow wrote harpoon gun. We do not need to (unless people really want to) go into a longwinded tangent on the differences between harpoons, spearguns, and (what wikipedia apparently thinks are most commonly called) harpoon cannons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_cannon).

Re: Moray and 'take that's -- Jeph is not Randy Milholland. If he's going to do anything take-that-ish with his audience, it's going to be mostly in the 'yes I see you' level, rather than in the 'I feed on your bitter rage' level. I suspect Moray will stick around, but most of the humor will be in the 'I'm aqueous!' brand of humor -- seats getting wet, not being able to keep a cell phone cause she keeps shorting it out, etc.

Re: today -- perfectly normal '19 y.o. nerdish type doesn't know what kind of beer they want' thing is fine. Marten and Claire were going to find out what the bartender would give her anyways, why didn't they order what they really wanted (I'm assuming they have favorite beers, even through we haven't seen a drinking episode for quite some time). Maybe Jeph (who sobered up before moving to Canada, right?) doesn't have enough Canadian beer jokes to drop names here.

Its really roundabout, but theyre basically just going with what the bartender recommends. That's not especially abnormal for people who dont have particular tastes about beer.

[Wraith]

Nice of the bartender to keep tabs on every single inhabitant of Cubetown to recognise them on sight - especially the ones who have been shut away in a single room for 2 years without interaction.

Shame he couldn't be bothered to bring in any bottles, or glasses, or menus... or taps... or a till.... or anything else apart from blank chalkboards. This looks like the most depressing bar I've ever seen, just bare grey walls staring at you while you hope that the staff bring you something non-corrosive to drink.

I get that Liz doesn't know any better, but why are Marten and Claire allowing the bartender to choose a drink for them? They already think AIs are useless morons, and yet they're trusting the judgement of someone whose only interaction with beer is how it smells despite not having a nose.

"Here, try this one - it probably won't kill you. I don't think that synaesthesia is usually lethal."
"Humans don't get that. Also, this is Bud Lite with a morello cherry and a paper umbrella in it?"
"I said 'probably', didn't I? Good luck, sucker."

[Traab]

Nice of the bartender to keep tabs on every single inhabitant of Cubetown to recognise them on sight - especially the ones who have been shut away in a single room for 2 years without interaction.

Shame he couldn't be bothered to bring in any bottles, or glasses, or menus... or taps... or a till.... or anything else apart from blank chalkboards. This looks like the most depressing bar I've ever seen, just bare grey walls staring at you while you hope that the staff bring you something non-corrosive to drink.

I get that Liz doesn't know any better, but why are Marten and Claire allowing the bartender to choose a drink for them? They already think AIs are useless morons, and yet they're trusting the judgement of someone whose only interaction with beer is how it smells despite not having a nose.

"Here, try this one - it probably won't kill you. I don't think that synaesthesia is usually lethal."
"Humans don't get that. Also, this is Bud Lite with a morello cherry and a paper umbrella in it?"
"I said 'probably', didn't I? Good luck, sucker."

From the sound of things, she is very well known as the acerbic child who chases off anyone who dares to try and communicate with her while screeching about her brilliance. Also, moray is apparently sending out constant updates for whats going on in cubetown and this guy reads them. Agreed the bar is pretty boring looking but I guess its on purpose as marten even describes it as an apple store. And they dont think AIs are useless morons, what? Think moray and that security guard are kinda dumb, but most ais are fairly smart and aware of whats going on around them, if a bit strange due to invisible llama building and whatnot. They have no reason to refuse a bartenders choice of beer. Especially as he has yet to do anything remotely stupid or strange.

[Keltest]

Besides, his name is Bar Tender. How can you not trust his tastes?


Oh god ow, I think I pulled something rolling my eyes while typing that.

[Wraith]

From the sound of things, she is very well known as the acerbic child who chases off anyone who dares to try and communicate with her while screeching about her brilliance. Also, moray is apparently sending out constant updates for whats going on in cubetown and this guy reads them.

That feels like an oxymoron. She's avoided contact with anyone for 2 years, and explicitly hasn't done anything in that time - hence her breakdown - so what's there to report? What has Moray been reporting? "Hey everyone, here's an exhaustive list of everyone on the island who currently exists along with their mugshot", kind of thing? :smalltongue:

People just know each other in QC, I guess. If the Head of Security also moonlights as a chambermaid, why shouldn't the bartender have photographic recollection of everyone who has never set foot in their bar?


And they dont think AIs are useless morons, what? Think moray and that security guard are kinda dumb, but most ais are fairly smart and aware of whats going on around them, if a bit strange due to invisible llama building and whatnot.

I'm thinking of the comic from about 4 months ago where even Marten scowled and shouted "WHY ARE [AI] LIKE THIS!?" in front of everyone. Then later when Claire talked to the Director and said 'everyone I've met so far is a weirdo'. Okay, maybe they doesn't think they're morons specifically, but they know what they're 'like'! What, in the last 4 months, have we seen that suggests that they should trust the judgement of ANYONE on this idiot island? :smallbiggrin:


They have no reason to refuse a bartenders choice of beer. Especially as he has yet to do anything remotely stupid or strange.

Claire knows that AI sniff tea and hallucinate giraffe housewives. I feel like that is warning enough about their concept of taste. Serving gassy, over-hopped, hipster IPAs in today's comic only proves my point.... :smallwink:

[Vinyadan]

Robots having photographic recollection isn't that odd... :smalltongue: The privacy law issues of something like this would be impressive, but that's a different story.

I think Liz wasn't hiding as well as she thought. People knew she was there, isolating herself and getting nothing done, they just didn't care about her. That, or people remember when she was introduced to the island and her little speech (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4981).

EDIT: Back in the day, IIRC, Marten explicitly asked someone "do you really want to be served food by an AI?". Because of the later AI-minority overlap, I later felt it felt like an itchy thing to say, even though AIs are alien and frequently seem to be so random, they verge on what we would call insanity. I guess he got more trusting?

[Traab]

That feels like an oxymoron. She's avoided contact with anyone for 2 years, and explicitly hasn't done anything in that time - hence her breakdown - so what's there to report? What has Moray been reporting? "Hey everyone, here's an exhaustive list of everyone on the island who currently exists along with their mugshot", kind of thing? :smalltongue:

People just know each other in QC, I guess. If the Head of Security also moonlights as a chambermaid, why shouldn't the bartender have photographic recollection of everyone who has never set foot in their bar?



I'm thinking of the comic from about 4 months ago where even Marten scowled and shouted "WHY ARE [AI] LIKE THIS!?" in front of everyone. Then later when Claire talked to the Director and said 'everyone I've met so far is a weirdo'. Okay, maybe they doesn't think they're morons specifically, but they know what they're 'like'! What, in the last 4 months, have we seen that suggests that they should trust the judgement of ANYONE on this idiot island? :smallbiggrin:



Claire knows that AI sniff tea and hallucinate giraffe housewives. I feel like that is warning enough about their concept of taste. Serving gassy, over-hopped, hipster IPAs in today's comic only proves my point.... :smallwink:

"Month 14, I sought to contact the angry little goblin scientist girl only to be yelled at once again for interrupting her brilliant brilliance. Lets leave her be for another month." Is along the lines of what id expect from moray to write about each member of this enclave. A brief update on how everyone is, and in this girls case, angry and frantic any time someone tries to talk to her for reasons they may or may not be aware of. Someone who behaves like that gets a reputation fast, and this isnt northampton, its basically a small floating company town. So id imagine most people are aware of their fellow employees. I mean heck, goblin girl was able to identify MARTEN despite her efforts to remain isolated for the last two years.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think Liz wasn't hiding as well as she thought.

This.

We all saw her attempts at stealth, lurking half obviously in the background, before she was properly introduced. It's likely that she does this every time she needs to go out for supplies or whatever, and everyone just plays along since they know by now she wants to be left alone.

[Cikomyr2]

I would hire this robot as a negociating nuke.

[Delicious Taffy]

Alright, I kinda dig this one. Weird kid, patient sarcastic adult. Very Iron Giant, innit.

[VoxRationis]

Emmett's level of expertise vis-a-vis tails is clearly overstated; a prehensile tail does not usually permit long, bulky hair like that of a fox.

[georgie_leech]

Emmett's level of expertise vis-a-vis tails is clearly overstated; a prehensile tail does not usually permit long, bulky hair like that of a fox.

There's no reason it couldn't, as the bits that grow hair aren't all that closely connected to the muscular and skeletal bits that make it prehensile. I mean, we could grow hairy hands like many other mammals, but evolution frowns on your grippers having lots of fur, so we don't. Artificially constructed ones though? Go nuts.

[VoxRationis]

Yes, I suppose it is physically possible, but why sink resources into a mass of hair that will be worn away in normal use? It would make great repeat business for Union Robotics and its vat of artificial fiber growth, but I don't see the advantage for the client.

[Wraith]

I don't particularly dislike Emmett, their "feral demon-spawn masquerading as a person in a hoodie" gimmick is kinda fun. I wish Jeph would decide if they're 14 years old or 8 years old though, the 'owo so cuute' thing was wearing very, very thin when we first did it ~6 years ago with Marigold, and Sam, and probably several other infantalised adults.


It would make great repeat business for Union Robotics and its vat of artificial fiber growth, but I don't see the advantage for the client.

From what we've seen of QC's AIs, this would probably qualify as a 'human experience', like cashing a cheque or going to the coffee shop. It doesn't have inherent physical value for them, but it would create a situation where they would have to make monthly visits to 'the hairdresser' and get their tail 'styled' according to occasions or fashion.

Y'know, all the stuff that real-life internet perverts would like to do, given the option.

[Scarlet Manuka]

Ah, back to the classy commentary on the human condition that we have come to expect from QC.

[Delicious Taffy]

Is anyone else confused about how we're supposed to view what's-her-name? Is she a toddler who needs to be adopted by a 32-year-old, or an adult who can drink alcohol and be drawn pantsless without the FBI knockin' on Jeph's door? I'm getting mixed signals here. Bypassing all the weird directions that conversation could go, I'm just not sure what sort of character she's supposed to be, other than "funnyface derp derp derp gremlin".

[Taevyr]

Yeah, I get the intent of "guys, isn't dropping your phone in the toilet and resulting stuff relatable", and it could have fit in parts of early QC (when still done well), but he really shouldn't have picked the "actually 1000 years old tween" character to do it with. Not to mention he could just have'em drop the phone in the toilet as they enter, as someone who's inebriated might do, thus evading the nudity which isn't at all necessary here?

Could be I'm simply all out of credit to give Jeph, but it just seems an odd choice, might be he's deliberately trying to stir up some stuff for views. Probably succesfully once it reaches reddit.

[Vinyadan]

You know, I would have never thought that the nudity in this page can be read as something sexual.

[Ionathus]

Is anyone else confused about how we're supposed to view what's-her-name? Is she a toddler who needs to be adopted by a 32-year-old, or an adult who can drink alcohol and be drawn pantsless without the FBI knockin' on Jeph's door? I'm getting mixed signals here. Bypassing all the weird directions that conversation could go, I'm just not sure what sort of character she's supposed to be, other than "funnyface derp derp derp gremlin".

She exists in a quantum state, simultaneously both childlike & needing protection and a fully-grown adult with relatable job problems, depending on the story he wants to tell.

Just like how almost all QC's AI have slowly morphed from entertaining and interesting "goofy little chaos bastard"-style AnthroPCs into pastel humans who are simultaneously oppressed daily & denied basic civil rights, but also qUiRKy weirdos with a near-suicidal lack of common sense who basically have to be babysat by the humans.

Jeph isn't interested in consistency, he just wants to tell the stories that interest him. That means sometimes the AI stuff is treated seriously and sometimes it's played extremely opposite for laughs. And I don't even necessarily begrudge him that: you've gotta write what you care about or you'll burn out fast. But it does make reading the comic confusing and makes it hard to maintain immersion if you're the kind of reader (I know I am) who needs consistent characterization.

[Rodin]

You know, I would have never thought that the nudity in this page can be read as something sexual.

*nods*

The strips disgusting and unfunny, but I don’t see the same sketchiness others seem to. As someone who doesn’t drink I’m very bemused by “drunk people, amirite?” humor.

I am starting to hang out on the Reddit page a bit though, there are alternate comic edits that are significantly funnier than the main comic. A bit hit and miss (some are just mean spirited swipes at the comic without an attempt at humor), but some of them have jokes I’d expect to see in old QC.

[halfeye]

You know, I would have never thought that the nudity in this page can be read as something sexual.
Me three.

rhubarb

[Ionathus]

*nods*

The strips disgusting and unfunny, but I don’t see the same sketchiness others seem to. As someone who doesn’t drink I’m very bemused by “drunk people, amirite?” humor.

I am starting to hang out on the Reddit page a bit though, there are alternate comic edits that are significantly funnier than the main comic. A bit hit and miss (some are just mean spirited swipes at the comic without an attempt at humor), but some of them have jokes I’d expect to see in old QC.

I don't feel like the strip is sexualized, I just don't like getting a full-body shot of anyone sitting on the toilet, in particular this person whose ambiguous perceived age is kind of focused-on by the story. It doesn't feel predatory or sexual, just uncomfortable. And then she (as I interpret it) grabs a turd instead of her phone, so I have to live with that in my brain now too.

But hey, I have zero benefit of the doubt left to give Jeph when it comes to toilet-related stuff since that truly unforgivable fetish reference during the vtubers arc, so that's probably coloring my opinion too.

To your second point: the subreddit edits are hit or miss but I overall really enjoy the squirrelclamp ones. Like you said, they bring back a nostalgic vibe for the older QC humor.

[Taevyr]

I don't feel like the strip is sexualized, I just don't like getting a full-body shot of anyone sitting on the toilet, in particular this person whose ambiguous perceived age is kind of focused-on by the story. It doesn't feel predatory or sexual, just uncomfortable.


This is essentially how I feel as well. I wouldn't say it's sexualized, it just feels weird and out-of-place to do so, particularly with this character.

[Wraith]

I think that it could potentially fall onto the far, far edges of sexualised, but only in the context that Jeph has also sexualised sitting on cakes, robot feet, lolita demon girls and anthromorphic toilets. After all; technically, we can see more of what's-her-face's butt than we did of Claire's when she stripped naked and prepared to lose her virginity.

We wouldn't give it a second thought in another webcomic, but QC has strayed into this territory before and it ended.... poorly. It is still crude and kind of stupid, and I think one would have to be extremely prudish to consider it pornographic or anything of that bent. It's sexual like a **** joke; it involves a person and their private anatomy, but that in itself isn't the objectionable part.

[Traab]

Im pretty sure she is basically technically an adult age wise (like between 18-21) but has been so sheltered all her life she is like a little kid.

[Wraith]

Im pretty sure she is basically technically an adult age wise (like between 18-21) but has been so sheltered all her life she is like a little kid.

She's 19 years old (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5001), which means she was working on 2 PhDs from 12-to-14 (probably, it's a ridiculous premise but whatever) to 17 and has been hiding in a closet ever since. Emotionally, she is probably the same age as Sam and Emmett, or thereabouts.

[Scarlet Manuka]

I have to ask - what the heck is up with Liz's face? In both 5019 and 5016 it seems to start off normal and get progressively wider throughout the strip, changing shape quite dramatically.

[Ionathus]

Looks like at least part of this is the camera zooming in - Marten & Claire's faces get bigger in those comics too.

But I think this is mostly just a stylistic choice for the sake of the joke. Liz is making funny faces so they get exaggerated. Especially in 5016, which I think is meant to distort her face so much because it's supposed to play into the "took too much" joke.

[otakuryoga]

Marten is going into full dad mode with Liz

[PhantomFox]

If this ends with Frankenstein robo-furries being a fad in the AI community... well, I guess I'd be more baffled than anything.

[Ionathus]

Enjoying the Faye/Bubbles/Emmett banter here. I suspect the promise of more Union Street Robotics is going to be the thing that keeps me checking back into the site.


If this ends with Frankenstein robo-furries being a fad in the AI community... well, I guess I'd be more baffled than anything.

Would you? Considering what this comic has explored in just the past two-ish years, would you really be baffled? :smallbiggrin:

[Wraith]

Of the two storylines, I too prefer the Union Robotics version. Emmett is just a teenager with nothing better to do, hanging out with newly acquired friends at a place that isn't actively hostile to their presence makes perfect sense as a premise, and the "what weird stuff can we do to AIs to get money from them" is a perfectly normal conversation, considering how we've already had similar conversations at Coffee of Doom, etc.

I just don't understand why Jeph has split his comic into two on the premise of having different directions to go as and when he feels like it, and then is telling more or less the same story in either at the same time. Two adults, one serious and the other more quirky, are at work and having to humour/babysit an awkward and poorly socialised teenager while wacky AI idiots wander through occasionally. Isn't there anything that anyone else could be doing, rather than watching one plot mirror the other on alternating weeks?

[Gnoman]

One of the newsposts mentioned that the entire Cubetown arc was intended to remove Marten from the comic, because he wasn't fun to write anymore, but the arc made him fun again. That's a pretty believable way the current oddness could start.

[tomandtish]

She's 19 years old (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5001), which means she was working on 2 PhDs from 12-to-14 (probably, it's a ridiculous premise but whatever) to 17 and has been hiding in a closet ever since. Emotionally, she is probably the same age as Sam and Emmett, or thereabouts.

Not THAT ridiculous. Karl Witte was 13 when he got his PhD (he's the current record holder). So two by 17 seems possible (if extremely unlikely).

[Willie the Duck]

Not THAT ridiculous. Karl Witte was 13 when he got his PhD (he's the current record holder). So two by 17 seems possible (if extremely unlikely).

It's entirely possible, it's still ridiculous. Getting PhDs at a young age is one of those things often used in fiction to telegraph 'yes really that smart.' In reality, it's certainly noteworthy and laudable, but more a subtle confluence of smart enough for a PhD (so, not-dumb and dedicated) and precocious. Getting multiple PhDs is another of those things coded 'no, seriously, smart' (I think in MCU they explain how Bruce Banner has 6 or 8 PhDs, for example). It, too, is kinda impressive in reality but not exactly evidence of extreme intelligence (getting one PhD, and then doing some really notable work in that field, would be equally or more impressive). Combining the two (apparently from different grad schools, which the strip highlights (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4981) as 'shouldn't even be possible but she did it anyways') is communicating 'we're going gonzo on this.' Mind you, I don't personally have a problem with this. The current arc hasn't wowed me, but not because Liz is a cartoon/sitcom genius in a webcomic that regularly follows cartoon/sitcom rules. Liz is smart; Liz is immature; done. In a more grounded fiction the same role could be filled by a 26 year old with one PhD who only acts like a sheltered 19 year old.

[Rodin]

The problem is she's acting like a sheltered 12 year old.

And no matter what age she is, she's thoroughly unlikeable.

[Ionathus]

The problem is she's acting like a sheltered 12 year old.

And no matter what age she is, she's thoroughly unlikeable.

Yep. It's even hard for Liz to compare favorably to someone like Sam or Emmett, who are like 5 years behind her.

My problem isn't with Liz's double PhDs, silly though they are. My problem is that I don't like or care about her.

[Vinyadan]

But what about her sob story??

[Mechalich]

The other problem with Liz is that insofar as she has a sob story, it's her parents fault, but her parents aren't a part of the comic. To unpack: she's 19 now, and has worked at Cubetown for 2 years, meaning she was 17 and a minor when she started working there. Her parents signed off on letting her join this commune of dubiously sapient AIs, which as everyone who's been following the Cubetown stuff has noticed, is absolute madness.

Unfortunately, this is essentially inherent to everything involving Cubetown. Because Cubetown is essentially too crazy to exist even in a sitcom-ified version of the real world, it creates a vortex of failed suspension of disbelief that drags down everything it touches.

[Eldan]

Her parents belong in prison, is my opinion. She belongs... I don't even know. Therapy, for starters. Lots of therapy. She seems near-feral and probably has never been entirely socialized.

[Wraith]

Her parents belong in prison, is my opinion. She belongs... I don't even know. Therapy, for starters. Lots of therapy. She seems near-feral and probably has never been entirely socialized.

That seems a little harsh. Although we haven't seen Liz' parents in the comic, we've seen them trying to contact her on at least 3 occasions in her very short existence, and having been blown off by Liz herself. While it would be nice to think that any parent would instinctively sense her suffering and jump in to help, they can't be expected to be psychic and know when their genius-level daughter is actively lying to them. She's told them everything is fine, and she's too busy to call more often? Well, she has 2 PhDs, she must know what she's talking about, right?

I think it's mostly to do Jeph's inability to really challenge his darlings. Nothing specifically 'bad' has happened to the character, she just hasn't improved as much as she had hoped, living in all-expenses-paid comfort, while being insufferable. I don't demand at all that he torture his characters and create pathos in every comic, but the impression that I get from other readers is that Liz doesn't 'deserve' the amount of attention she's getting - "it would make sense just to assign her a line manager and maybe a counsellor and be done with it, she doesn't need to be 'adopted' and coddled by the main characters", kind of thing? I think I broadly agree with that idea, insofar as Claire and Marten already have too much going on in their own lives to also pick up this stray lost duckling who has done little but be a rude inconvenience to them.

Then again, I also get the vibe that many readers are more like, "she acts like a jerk so let her suffer the consequences", which is NOT a healthy outcome. At least SOME sympathy should be assumed and not have to be 'earned' by Liz' grovelling contrition. While QC is perhaps verging on the excessive, we should at least take the statement "this character is suffering and needs help" at face value :smalltongue:

[Mechalich]

I think it's mostly to do Jeph's inability to really challenge his darlings. Nothing specifically 'bad' has happened to the character, she just hasn't improved as much as she had hoped, living in all-expenses-paid comfort, while being insufferable. I don't demand at all that he torture his characters and create pathos in every comic, but the impression that I get from other readers is that Liz doesn't 'deserve' the amount of attention she's getting - "it would make sense just to assign her a line manager and maybe a counsellor and be done with it, she doesn't need to be 'adopted' and coddled by the main characters", kind of thing? I think I broadly agree with that idea, insofar as Claire and Marten already have too much going on in their own lives to also pick up this stray lost duckling who has done little but be a rude inconvenience to them.

I think it's that there's really no need for Liz to be a character at all. She exists to demonstrate how Cubetown's chaos can have real human consequences - she appears to have been on the edge of some kind of mental breakdown - but there's nothing specific to her situation that either Claire or Marten are really trained to address. Her purpose was fulfilled when her case was brought to Claire's attention and she can now safely be removed from the story. There's no real reason to keep her around and the cast is already massively bloated.

Also, the nature of Claire's job as The Librarian is to solve 100 versions of the Liz problem. She can't 'adopt' them all, that's not a scalable solution.

[Rodin]

For myself it’s nothing to do with consequences. I just don’t want her to be a character, because she’s a walking talking destroyer of the suspension of disbelief. I have to believe she somehow survived doing two PhDs at a comically young age yet is apparently not capable of basic self sufficiency. That she somehow got hired for a role with no clearly defined objective and no oversight. That no alarm bells got run for TWO FREAKING YEARS.

Every minute she’s on panel is a reminder of the shoddy world building and storytelling.

And then on top of that she’s simply an unpleasant character. An unpleasant character is tolerable when they’re an antagonist or an obstacle to be overcome, but when the writer is trying to make the character a precocious darling we all love that doesn’t apply.

[Traab]

I mean, the author isnt trying to make her a precocious darling or whatever. Its being made pretty clear that she has a lot of issues to deal with connected, presumably, to the fact that she was probably a studying hermit under pressure all her life and now that she is a doctor of whatever her fields are she is basically cut loose with no idea of what to do from here because she spent all her time cramming for tests and none learning things like how to socialize or even considering what comes next after getting her degree. She is twisted up inside because she thinks that as an adult she should be able to handle this and that asking for help would be shameful and spent two years being twisted up inside because she has nobody she feels like she can turn to, and her abrasive personality, being a mixture of being treated as special all her life and not interacting with anyone outside of her professors and parents pushes everyone away before they can really spot the problems she has. When the only interaction she has with outsiders is yelling at moray "Im special leave me alone to do special stuff!!!" once a month, its no wonder that she has a bad rep and nobody guessing what her problems actually were till she forced herself to interact with marten as long as they did. Its not a perfectly written character, but its a pretty solid one imo with logical connections for all her traits and problems.

[Mechalich]

I mean, the author isnt trying to make her a precocious darling or whatever. Its being made pretty clear that she has a lot of issues to deal with connected, presumably, to the fact that she was probably a studying hermit under pressure all her life and now that she is a doctor of whatever her fields are she is basically cut loose with no idea of what to do from here because she spent all her time cramming for tests and none learning things like how to socialize or even considering what comes next after getting her degree.

Maybe, but this means Jeph fundamentally misunderstands how getting a PhD works. Classes are only a (small) part of it. The primary aspect is conducting original research which requires at least some ability to function autonomously. Exactly how much can vary a lot - some doctoral students work in large labs and are basically handed some set of experiments to monitor and turn into a dissertation and this is fairly likely to apply to Liz - but there's a floor. No one writes your dissertation for you.


She is twisted up inside because she thinks that as an adult she should be able to handle this and that asking for help would be shameful and spent two years being twisted up inside because she has nobody she feels like she can turn to, and her abrasive personality, being a mixture of being treated as special all her life and not interacting with anyone outside of her professors and parents pushes everyone away before they can really spot the problems she has. When the only interaction she has with outsiders is yelling at moray "Im special leave me alone to do special stuff!!!" once a month, its no wonder that she has a bad rep and nobody guessing what her problems actually were till she forced herself to interact with marten as long as they did. Its not a perfectly written character, but its a pretty solid one imo with logical connections for all her traits and problems.

I think a big part of the issue is that her 'problems' are significantly overblown. Being abrasive and antisocial are only problems insofar as they impact overall mental health. Liz is apparently quite content to pursue research into highly theoretical topics largely on her own. She just needs some direction and a publishing schedule (and someone to tell her 'clean your office!' every six months). Something like 'Liz, you're on the muon modeling team, publish something every six to nine months.' It's a one-sentence fix.

[Rodin]

Also, when was the last time you had to clean your office? I don't mean just picking up the trash on your desk or emptying your filing cabinet of old candy bar wrappers. When did you vacuum your office or take the trash bags to the dumpster or any sort of major cleaning?

Last time for me was 2021, because we were spraying disinfectant on everything for COVID. Before then was....2016? I worked weekends and the trash can had fish in it so I proactively took it out so the Monday crew weren't going to be greeted by fishy death.

Offices have janitorial staff. Having the home environment be filthy (like Marigold) is one thing, but offices just don't work that way.

[Wraith]

I think that the biggest issue for me is that looking after mid-crisis teenagers was never supposed to be, is not, and never will be Claire's job, and taking on that task makes everything vague and irrelevant.

The advert was for a librarian, the offer was for Head of IS, and the tasks mentioned seem to imply a Vice CEO-like role; putting aside our objections to this being a ridiculous hiring process, absolutely none of those have anything to do with micro-managing Physics researchers or intervening in mental health beyond referring them away to experts. That is HR's job, and on top of that she absolutely doesn't get to yell at the Head of HR even after she has signed her contract of employment - she doesn't have the authority, resource, contacts or ability to get involved in Liz' predicament.

What this means is, the plot so far makes no sense and where the plot is going is unpredictable, and in a bad way - if there's no continuity between what anyone has done, and what they are doing, then we can't be invested in where they're going to go. Yesterday Claire was interviewing for a librarian post; today she's a CEO who is intervening in a teenage prodigy's mental health crisis; tomorrow she could be learning to fly a helicopter and none of it matters. Wacky hijinks are fine, but have an upper limit - at some point it becomes Axe Cop, and "because lolrandom" thankfully died out as a meme about 10 years ago.

In many ways its a shame because if Cubetown wanted to bring Claire on as a counsellor, or some kind of mental health advisor, or sensitivity reader/advisor based on her backstory, that would not only have a structure but also be interesting! It would let Claire champion underdogs through the lens of her experience as a member of a minority group herself, and it would allow Jeph to introduce a "wacky moron of the week" as there would be a logical reason for AI weirdos to come into her office with problems for her to solve every time he felt like it.... Without the inconsistency of her being the island's #2 and on an implausible salary to boot. :smallconfused:

[Vinyadan]

She could have been shooing the cleaning staff.

I am not against Elizabeth as a character; I think she is the least unbelievable thing on the Island. 17 y-o very precocious yet immature, proud, and pretentious kid is hired by a deeply unorganised firm that controls a whole island, gets no adequate support, falls into a rabbit hole of her own making, and alienates to the point of isolation, as she is too ashamed to explain the situation or ask for help: that I can believe or understand.

To make a comparison, SuperPC decides Claire is the Chosen One to be the SuperCEO: that I don't really get. I didn't look up a librarian's course of study, but would she know anything for the job? Is good will all it takes? Now, if it were an Hal 9000 situation, and the PC just glitched and retroconstructed an explanation, and Claire is too set in her stated purpose (kick butt) to say no... but I doubt this is where we are going.

Also, jumping from one side to the other makes me enjoy both less.

[Keltest]

She could have been shooing the cleaning staff.

I am not against Elizabeth as a character; I think she is the least unbelievable thing on the Island. 17 y-o very precocious yet immature, proud, and pretentious kid is hired by a deeply unorganised firm that controls a whole island, gets no adequate support, falls into a rabbit hole of her own making, and alienates to the point of isolation, as she is too ashamed to explain the situation or ask for help: that I can believe or understand.

To make a comparison, SuperPC decides Claire is the Chosen One to be the SuperCEO: that I don't really get. I didn't look up a librarian's course of study, but would she know anything for the job? Is good will all it takes? Now, if it were an Hal 9000 situation, and the PC just glitched and retroconstructed an explanation, and Claire is too set in her stated purpose (kick butt) to say no... but I doubt this is where we are going.

Also, jumping from one side to the other makes me enjoy both less.

Based on what I know of cleaning staff, a lot of them would tie her up and leave her in the hallway rather than leave an office to get to that level. Its a health hazard. Things are living in it. Her opinion is no longer relevant there.

[geoduck]

Cubetown probably has just the one disgruntled janitor that we've previously seen.

[Wraith]

Based on what I know of cleaning staff, a lot of them would tie her up and leave her in the hallway rather than leave an office to get to that level. Its a health hazard. Things are living in it. Her opinion is no longer relevant there.

"Hey Bob, have you finished up in Building Four?"
"Yeah. Well, almost; I didn't clean out Room 12."
"Why not, Bob?"
"A 4-foot-nothing child looked at me funny, told me to go away, kicked some of the 3-foot-tall drift of stale food containers, screwed up balls of paper, and rat-urine-stained-clothing back over the threshold and then shut the door."
"Did she lock the door, Bob?"
"No, an' I have my keys here on my belt if she had. I just thought the kid I didn't recognise who looks barely old enough to drive knew best as to how to do my job over me or you, is all."
"You're fired, Bob."

:smalltongue:

[Vinyadan]

"You're fired, Bob."

I think that's the key: in a mess like AI Island, no one would fire the janitor who didn't do his job. Would he even know whom to tell? And, if his superior had been told and informed Slimon, would she have done anything?

I agree that janitors tend to take control when they can. But this requires that they got some drilling.

[Traab]

As far as being in charge goes thats already been established as the main problem. Nobody is really in charge of anything. It seems to be a collective of people doing their own thing under their own guidance and the director is this inhuman intelligence that doesnt fully comprehend it all so creates goo girls to act as intermediaries which is ineffective at best. So our hypothetical janitor isnt going to insist on forcing his way into an office where the goblin seems to live full time and refuses to let him enter "because ive got high level research here" or whatever. Chances are he tried the first few weeks got rejected each time and has basically shrugged and written off that office from his job duties because he isnt able to clean it and nobody seems to care.

[Cikomyr2]

Thats the security android, in case anyone else forgot

I sure did

[Ionathus]

Speaking of the janitor, I just remembered:

Did we ever get an answer on whether Cubetown's janitor is an astrophysicist who got hired to be a janitor, a person with janitorial skills who thought he was being hired as an astrophysicist, a hobbyist astrophysicist who was willing to take whatever he could get, or something else? Never got any follow-up on that from the interview scene.

[halfeye]

Speaking of the janitor, I just remembered:

Did we ever get an answer on whether Cubetown's janitor is an astrophysicist who got hired to be a janitor, a person with janitorial skills who thought he was being hired as an astrophysicist, a hobbyist astrophysicist who was willing to take whatever he could get, or something else? Never got any follow-up on that from the interview scene.

Why the heck would we want to follow that up? It's probably next.

[Cikomyr2]

Nice boob joke, Jeff.

Which is nice, the boobs or the joke?

Ill never tell

[Mechalich]

I don't get this sequence. Evan is an AI with a security function, they should not have this sort of half-asleep state of being as an option. Also, they should be able to just turn off external audio inputs, which you'd think they would have learned how to do while living above a bar.

[Ionathus]

I don't get this sequence. Evan is an AI with a security function, they should not have this sort of half-asleep state of being as an option. Also, they should be able to just turn off external audio inputs, which you'd think they would have learned how to do while living above a bar.

Seconded. We've never been shown AI having a "grogginess" state - they're always either fully awake or powered-down like May was that one time she ran out of juice.

Either we're being set up for Evan having some glitch going on, or she's actually a human masquerading as an AI, or (my personal guess) Jeph just didn't care and wanted to draw some fanservice. But hey, at least he was driven to learn how to make clothing drape effects for the joke.

Out of everyone at Cubetown, Evan is the one I'm most willing to read more about. But I'm kinda worried that's about to fly out the window due to wacky hijinks :smallmad:

[Vinyadan]

Maybe it's why Evan is so bad at her job: they installed a bunch of experimental routines on her, like the ability to perform surveillance and take action while her core is in sleep mode. Except she lacks the lucidity to perform either.

[BRC]

Maybe it's why Evan is so bad at her job: they installed a bunch of experimental routines on her, like the ability to perform surveillance and take action while her core is in sleep mode. Except she lacks the lucidity to perform either.

I mean, between Evan being, I think, the most Humanlike AI we've seen (Momo also has a standard caucasian skin ton, but IIRC Jeph usually draws his AI's with different looking eyes to his humans?), and this, it's possible that Evan was an experiment in pushing an AI Chassis as close to human as possible, just to see if they could. This seems like a not-unreasonable take on trying to intentionally simulate the experience of being Groggy the same way robots simulate being drunk.

[Wraith]

Reddit does not like this strip.

The fan-forum is split right down the middle between "lol boobs horny.jpg" and being uncomfortable by the implications of a semi-conscious woman stripping as a punchline.

The snark thread has a list. Yet another inebriated/semi-conscious woman in a state of undress. Poor art and the idea that after 15 years as a professional artist, Jeph has just discovered how to draw fabric (obviously meant as a joke, but difficult to find funny alongside the anatomy and other problems). The inconsistency with AIs having a 'drowsy' mode for some reason. Evan living above a bar and being surprised by bar-noise (otherwise implying that no one has ever used the bar until now, which is a further criticism of Cubetown being empty or used performatively by AI *if* they remember). Evan's art/size being inconsistent.

...At least they seem to have forgotten how annoying and unpleasant Liz was yesterday, and why she deserves comeuppance for continuing to be a gremlin.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well this is probably the biggest party that this bar has ever hosted, so I'll forgive it being an unusual situation for her. And also, do we have any evidence she was designed with a security function in mind, or is she just an AI person who decided to get a job in security?

[Mechalich]

And also, do we have any evidence she was designed with a security function in mind, or is she just an AI person who decided to get a job in security?

It doesn't really matter. QC AIs can edit aspects of their mental state processing system, something that we've seen through examples such as the drunkenness app. Even assuming the case wherein an AI might want to alter their cognition to experience something like the human state of mental fogginess from waking up too early, which is already rather dubious, an AI who works in a security role should cut that right out (seriously, fatigue is probably the number one contributor to mistakes made by law enforcement).

[Traab]

We already knew AIs can reasonably approximate high or drunk status at will, the ability to be drowsy isnt exactly out there. Slow processing speed, put little skips in input so they miss things going on around them, and bobs your uncle. As for why, the same reason why for literally anything humanish they do. Because. I did like the idea of her being an experiment in a chassis thats as close to being alive in the biological sense as possible. Not just for the greater ability to do human stuff, but even self healing capabilities would be nice, albeit slower than going to a mechanic. Or operating as a bridge between man and machine.

[The Glyphstone]

Why does Cubetown even have a security officer, other than AI theater? It seems like the overlap between 'Crimes likely to happen on Cubetown' and 'Crimes she is capable of handling' is very small.

[Ionathus]

I think AI theater really does make the most sense. AIs are trying to replicate a human population center, and to their knowledge that includes security/law enforcement of some sort, so somebody's gotta put on that costume and act the part.

Why they picked seemingly the only AI who's capable of human-comparable drowsiness (really, more-than-human-comparable drowsiness, since I've never seen any IRL tired person start stripping in public) is anyone's guess.

[Vinyadan]

'Crimea likely to happen on Cubetown'

Now, THAT would be a hell of a plotline!

[Mechalich]

Huh, well, if I ever wanted to submit evidence that Jeph reads this thread, today's strip would be exhibit A.

[The Glyphstone]

I'd doubt it but I do think he reads Reddit, and our opinions are a microcosm of the ones there so overlap is inevitable.

[Ionathus]

Huh, well, if I ever wanted to submit evidence that Jeph reads this thread, today's strip would be exhibit A.

Y'know, I thought the same thing. Probably not though -- I figure these are just the most natural questions to follow on the last scene. I've noticed this happen in Order of the Stick a lot too (especially in talky scenes, like the Durkon/Redcloak meeting), where the forum spends a ton of time essentially extrapolating the characters' next conversation beat while we're waiting for the next strip. Webcomics are immensely weird and unique for this, since they're basically the only medium where the audience can consume a portion of a scene and then react to it publicly before the author has finished that scene.

Of course, it could also be Jeph going "oh crap that's right AI can't get drowsy" and doing a quick retcon/explanation. It's kind of weird he didn't acknowledge it at all in the initial two strips, so the explanation seems clunky. But in this case I am, indeed, willing to give Jeph just a *little* credit here. :smallcool:

[Willie the Duck]

I've noticed this happen in Order of the Stick a lot too (especially in talky scenes, like the Durkon/Redcloak meeting), where the forum spends a ton of time essentially extrapolating the characters' next conversation beat while we're waiting for the next strip. Webcomics are immensely weird and unique for this, since they're basically the only medium where the audience can consume a portion of a scene and then react to it publicly before the author has finished that scene.

I know BITD Pete of Sluggy Freelance had to ban speculation in the parts of his forum he was self-allowed to be in* because one or more persons claimed that he stole their idea.
* there was a 'spec' thread he declared that he did not read

[Vinyadan]

I know BITD Pete of Sluggy Freelance had to ban speculation in the parts of his forum he was self-allowed to be in* because one or more persons claimed that he stole their idea.
* there was a 'spec' thread he declared that he did not read

Dan Shive (author of EGS) asked people not to write EGS fanfiction, because he was worried about ideas overlapping and creating the impression of plagiarism.

[Wraith]

Jeph has publicly stated that he doesn't read any Reddit or other forums about QC. Pretty much the sole source of feedback he gets is in patreon, which I suspect tends to be nice because A) people willing to pay for QC are probably onboard with what he's doing and B) he can directly and deliberately curate the people he doesn't want to hear from.

Also, it's pretty clear that he just ignores them too; they get the comic a day early, and yet he still doesn;t do anything when they point out that he has misnumbered a comic, or left in a layer than makes Claire's spectacles overlay on top of her nose, or something.

Honestly, I think this is an example of people being too quick to criticise. The first comic was the joke wherein Evan was being dopey, the second comic was the joke where Evan confirmed that she was sleepwalking, then the comic returned indoors to have Claire scold what's-her-face, and today Marten has just walked back in to mention that it even happened.

It's not an amazing joke, but we've seen joke, then clarification, then established a change of setting, then explanation in 4 comics. That makes sense, really. Who else was Marten going to talk about it with until he walked back into the room? Wouldn't people have complained about the pacing if Marten walked back in, they discussed Evan, and THEN Claire brought up Hannelore again even though we had clearly moved on from that subject?

Sure, the 'sleepyhead syndrome' thing is really stupid, in terms of just the name if not what it actually does, but that's normal for QC AIs. Not the funniest thing ever in the comic, but... Its fine.

[Mechalich]

Honestly, I think this is an example of people being too quick to criticise. The first comic was the joke wherein Evan was being dopey, the second comic was the joke where Evan confirmed that she was sleepwalking, then the comic returned indoors to have Claire scold what's-her-face, and today Marten has just walked back in to mention that it even happened.

It's not an amazing joke, but we've seen joke, then clarification, then established a change of setting, then explanation in 4 comics. That makes sense, really. Who else was Marten going to talk about it with until he walked back into the room? Wouldn't people have complained about the pacing if Marten walked back in, they discussed Evan, and THEN Claire brought up Hannelore again even though we had clearly moved on from that subject?


While the clarification did come rapidly, there was still a delay and that delay was long enough for the audience to mull over it. This is a thing with pacing and structure when publishing in a serial format, the author needs to be conscious that the audience is reading in little snippets and has to adjust things accordingly. This is most obvious in daily comic strips, which may carry a long-term story, but need a punchline every single day. That actually relates to the current issue. QC #5031 is supposed to be funny, but instead it came off, in the moment as, huh? That release, on that specific day, is a loss, regardless of later clarification. Comedy relies on timing, and this is a flub.

Now, this is a very minor case. It's one comic about a relatively unimportant character and was almost immediately addressed. Whether Jeph either anticipated or observed fan reaction, the necessary course correction was made, in frankly about as timely a fashion as possible. Certainly better than previously questions in this regard like 'how do Moray even exist?' which took weeks to get answered. I've seen, way, way worse. Long-running Shounen Manga sometimes leave characters in the 'are they really dead?' Schrodinger Story Space for real-time years, which is unconscionable.

[halfeye]

Comedy relies on timing, and this is a flub.

Not always. Tony Hancock was acclaimed as a master of timing, he used to "um" and "ah" a bit to get it to his satisfaction, but others didn't rely on timing so much and were in my opinion just as funny.

[Rodin]

Long-running Shounen Manga sometimes leave characters in the 'are they really dead?' Schrodinger Story Space for real-time years, which is unconscionable.

Bleach was so bad about this that I got massively confused when I started watching the new Thousand Year Blood War series. There's a whole raft of characters I swear we saw die on screen who show up in the opening episodes. I'm not talking one or two, there's like six or seven different people who I thought were dead.

On the other hand, Bleach doesn't even come close to matching the length of time Sara has been in Shrodinger's Allosaurus. :smallbiggrin:

[Johanny]

It's also possible that Jeph has friends/relatives who give him input of some sort.
I don't think he'd have an editor, not a good one anyway, but that's also a possibility.

[Wraith]

A persistent rumour is that his ex-wife was also his unofficially official editor, which is why the comic started getting especially weird (arguably, down-turning) in about 2014 - although the breakup was said to be amicable, the stress of the breakup and the loss of her as a creative resource probably had something to do with it.

A similar rumour is that he doesn't rely on his current partner in a similar way, either because she isn't interested in unpaid work or because Jeph doesn't want to fall into the same old pattern.

I have no way to substantiate any of this, it may just be a coincidence of timing, but it implies that Jeph doesn't have an editor, certainly not one with expertise nor used full-time.

[tomandtish]

Dan Shive (author of EGS) asked people not to write EGS fanfiction, because he was worried about ideas overlapping and creating the impression of plagiarism.

Babylon 5: JMS commented on Lurker's guide back in the day that there was one episode that almost wasn't made. He'd written it out then realized that someone had posted (on another site even) an identical plot suggestion. He had to make contact with the fan and make sure they were cool with it being used. Since then he specifically asked people to not send him plot ideas.

The episode was "Passing Through Gethsemane" (http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/048.html#NO) (season 3 Ep 4). JMS's quote:


On the story question...yes, this was the story that someone else (don't want to use names, no sense in blaming anyone) had accidentally suggested while I was working on it early in season two. So I had to scuttle the script for nearly a year. Finally, very chagrined over what happened, the individual gave me a notarized form explaining the situation. At that point, I was able to reactivate the story. So no, it's not any kind of "it's okay to do this" notion about story ideas; as it is, the story was tied up for about a year, and might never have seen the light of day had not the other person made great efforts to set the situation straight.

On another service, someone without considering what he was saying (not his fault, it just happened) said, in essence, "What if somebody on B5 found out that he had been mind-wiped, and used to be something awful previously?" Well, I'd had "Passing Through Gethsemane" on the wire at that time, but when I saw this, I had to scuttle the story. It lay there, untouched, for over a year, until I could finally meet the fellow and get a signed release indicating what'd happened. If that fan had not been fair and reasonable, that episode -- which many consider one of our best -- would never have been made.

[Vinyadan]

Lol, Evan reads like a groveling toad. She's ready to kneel in front of someone who is about to achieve a position of status, but will assault anyone who she even just suspects might disturb the powerful.

OK, OK, she actually just really really wants Claire to take the job. Which gets embarassing for other reasons -- "Don't you try to disturb Claire you horrible disabled person I am lifting from her prosthetics, nyaaaaa!"

[Wraith]

The art in this update is atrocious. Liz' stool has twice the circumference as Marten or Claire's, for some reason. Claire and Marten are apparently sitting so far back that their butts are hovering in mid-air, probably because they were poorly copy/pasted onto a single copy/pasted stool. Then in between panel 2 and 3, not only does Liz' stool completely disappear, but so does the space where it ought to have been. Also, Evan seems to be wearing a garbage bag that's had holes torn out of it rather than a vest, and somehow the bartender has teleported through the bar to stand next to Moray.

It's also strange that Evan is acting like she knows Liz to be some kind of persistent trouble-maker, immediately suspecting her of being likely to insult and offend Claire. But... how? The last time she might have seen Liz would have been 2 years ago when she first started, and she's done nothing but hide and avoid any interactions with anyone else ever since. This isn't like Pintsize who has pranked and harassed everyone in the cast and is well known for it; this is the gremlin child who thinks she has Skyrim skill trees and hides behind benches rather than speak to someone directly.

Not that I especially desire another tedious week of strips where every character exhaustively explains how and when they were introduced to each of the others, but it would be nice if someone in the comic didn't immediately remember every detail about a stranger they sort-of saw once 2 years ago, or at least remark how weird it would be for the recluse to be out drinking in public. Or something. Anything.

[Ionathus]

Just because Liz is a recluse doesn’t mean she hasn’t ever ventured out of her place. She’s not in physical quarantine, she’s just antisocial.

That’s the least of my complaints about this strip, though. Mostly it’s just crass and grating. Why did Liz suddenly turn into an obnoxious pervert? That last quote from Liz is straight-up Early Pintsize levels of sexual harassment, except coming from a human adult it’s even more egregious, drunken or not.

[Rodin]

Liz seems to be an attempt to write the most unpleasant character possible without resorting to racism/bigotry. A character that isn't evil or malicious, but is SO irksome anyway that you want to bury them 50 feet deep in a steel box.

Exactly why Jeph has decided to write this character is a mystery to me. Then again, he seems to think "character X is being a goblin" is the height of comedy, only topped by "character Y is drunk". A character that combines both of these traits is probably considered the zen perfection of his art.

[KillianHawkeye]

I still don't understand how Evan went from being so flat-chested I wouldn't have guessed she was supposed to be female if it hadn't been explicitly pointed out to now having "huge tits" as her only notable feature. :smallconfused:

[Mechalich]

I still don't understand how Evan went from being so flat-chested I wouldn't have guessed she was supposed to be female if it hadn't been explicitly pointed out to now having "huge tits" as her only notable feature. :smallconfused:

Ballistic vests, which involve placing a flattened plate of distinctly-without-flexibility kevlar atop one's chest, have a truly impressive capability to suppress the visibility of 'chestiness' in human law enforcement officers, so it's not the most egregious misrepresentation possible, but I agree that Evan looks significantly different that previously drawn. She's got a gun-show going on now too, which I feel was previously absent.

[SaintRidley]

I'm gonna save that front loader line. I feel like it could be a hit with some of my people, at least.

[KillianHawkeye]

Ballistic vests, which involve placing a flattened plate of distinctly-without-flexibility kevlar atop one's chest, have a truly impressive capability to suppress the visibility of 'chestiness' in human law enforcement officers, so it's not the most egregious misrepresentation possible, but I agree that Evan looks significantly different that previously drawn. She's got a gun-show going on now too, which I feel was previously absent.

This may be possible, but considering that Evan doesn't carry a gun and her vest was filled with snacks, I'm doubtful that it was really a top notch bullet-proof tactical vest with form-obscuring kevlar plating. If such things were necessary in Cubetown, they'd probably have more than one security officer...

[Mechalich]

This may be possible, but considering that Evan doesn't carry a gun and her vest was filled with snacks, I'm doubtful that it was really a top notch bullet-proof tactical vest with form-obscuring kevlar plating. If such things were necessary in Cubetown, they'd probably have more than one security officer...

Anyone can buy a ballistic vest, and Evan is clearly shown wearing a ballistic vest carrier (though yes, it is possible that there are no plates inside). However, given the way that she's drawn in comics such as #4939, said vest is both far too low on the chest to offer proper protection (I mean, not that AIs have a heart which renders the whole exercise kind of pointless) and in a position that would crimp her breasts down in a fashion that, assuming anything like a human's nerve-structure, must pinch unbelievably brutally.

[Wraith]

Just because Liz is a recluse doesn’t mean she hasn’t ever ventured out of her place. She’s not in physical quarantine, she’s just antisocial.

Absolutely true, 2 years is a long time to go without meeting ANYONE in person.

I still think its at odds with the story being told, though. On the one hand, Liz has been a recluse for 2 years, shouting at Moray through the door, lying to her parents on the 'phone, and wallowing in piles of her own garbage 3 feet deep. She hides from people in public like she's in a video game, and her clothes are being chewed by rats; surely if anyone had seen (or smelled) her within that time period, concerns would have been raised? Apparently not?

But also; she's a gremlin who has a reputation for annoying people so consistently that the Head of Security apparently knows her well enough to recognise even when people pronounce her name incorrectly. Being snarky at a presentation 2 years ago isn't really enough to garner someone a notorious reputation like this?


Anyone can buy a ballistic vest, and Evan is clearly shown wearing a ballistic vest carrier (though yes, it is possible that there are no plates inside). However, given the way that she's drawn in comics such as #4939, said vest is both far too low on the chest to offer proper protection (I mean, not that AIs have a heart which renders the whole exercise kind of pointless) and in a position that would crimp her breasts down in a fashion that, assuming anything like a human's nerve-structure, must pinch unbelievably brutally.

Also her nose has apparently been broken at some point in the last 2 hours. When she was first introduced, it was quite romanesque, and now it has same upturned anime thing that everyone else has.

In summary: The past is an illusion, remembering things that happened is a crime, do not assume anything has to make sense. There are only pastel people and boobies, anything else is irrelevant. :smalltongue:

[Cikomyr2]

I still don't understand how Evan went from being so flat-chested I wouldn't have guessed she was supposed to be female if it hadn't been explicitly pointed out to now having "huge tits" as her only notable feature. :smallconfused:

Is actually very common for female armor or female clothes to deliberately flatten the boobs. Only horny drawers and designers make female armor that emphasize the boobiness of the wearer, because the shape will not only diminish the range of movement the user will be able to afford in combat situation, it actually becomes a weak point easy to bash and crush the rib cage with undistributed force.

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe there's a telephone effect at play? If Evan only knows Liz by reputation due to her being a recluse, and that reputation has been amplified and exaggerated over time, she's got the worst impression already.

[Ionathus]

Absolutely true, 2 years is a long time to go without meeting ANYONE in person.

I still think its at odds with the story being told, though. On the one hand, Liz has been a recluse for 2 years, shouting at Moray through the door, lying to her parents on the 'phone, and wallowing in piles of her own garbage 3 feet deep. She hides from people in public like she's in a video game, and her clothes are being chewed by rats; surely if anyone had seen (or smelled) her within that time period, concerns would have been raised? Apparently not?

But also; she's a gremlin who has a reputation for annoying people so consistently that the Head of Security apparently knows her well enough to recognise even when people pronounce her name incorrectly. Being snarky at a presentation 2 years ago isn't really enough to garner someone a notorious reputation like this?

Funny enough, I debated saying something about this exact thing to my last post. How does Liz both have a reputation as a horrible disruptive goblin with the Head of Security, but also "completely fell off Cubetown's radar" to the point that Claire felt justified in ascribing moral judgment to Moray & other 'leaders'?

(Though now that I'm saying this, it occurs to me that the Real World definitely has its fair share of work environments with this same dynamic, unfortunately. "Oh yeah, that's Jambro Borpherston, he's a horrible garbageperson to everyone he meets, never talk to him, I think he has rats living in his office?? Dunno what he does here, maybe finance...best not to question it." The power of the SEP field is immense.)


Also her nose has apparently been broken at some point in the last 2 hours. When she was first introduced, it was quite romanesque, and now it has same upturned anime thing that everyone else has.

In summary: The past is an illusion, remembering things that happened is a crime, do not assume anything has to make sense. There are only pastel people and boobies, anything else is irrelevant. :smalltongue:

Evan is a perfect case study in what happens to any character that lasts for more than 2 appearances in the current era of QC: the nose swerves upwards to match everyone else's, and the boobification begins.

Honestly the noses are what get to me the most. Once someone pointed it out, I started noticing it, and it's impossible to ignore how absolutely homogenous the noses are now. Especially compared to how varied they used to be!

[Vinyadan]

The reason why I feel uncomfortable with Elizabeth's story is exactly that it could have happened in plain sight, and no one would have stepped in; there would just have been some chatter, and some would have put some exceptional petty gusto in pointing her out, and that would have been it.

It's a very different environment from QC; it isn't about friends or people having fun. Its about... The workplace :smalleek:

[Rodin]

In summary: The past is an illusion, remembering things that happened is a crime, do not assume anything has to make sense. There are only pastel people and boobies, anything else is irrelevant. :smalltongue:

Remember: The computer is your friend with benefits.

[Cikomyr2]

Tank you for the joke

[DavidSh]

The final comment about "cat-like tread" -- I always associate with Gilbert & Sullivan pirates singing at the top of their lungs about sneaking around, not tank treads, but that works too.

[Mechalich]

So...does anyone else feel that repeatedly cutting back and forth between Cubetown and Northampton only highlights how much better the Northampton-set portion of the comic is?

[Wraith]

At one point I was thinking the same thing, and then we had to watch Faye and Bubbles bum around in their empty shop AGAIN, so it's not like I'm optimistic about going back again.

The best thing I can say is that Emmett is just dull (no matter how hard Jeph insists they have 'lore' or a remarkable backstory) and Northampton is just spinning its wheels; whereas Cubetown has new things being revealed but Liz and the other characters are actively annoying and repellent. Honestly, each side feels more like a race to the bottom.

[Ionathus]

I also still don't understand why or how Emmett is supposedly this agent of chaos. It's kind of funny for this very withdrawn kid to be supposedly a real troublemaker, but if I never see them getting into trouble, then it's all just tell-don't-show. Which I particularly don't understand when it comes to shenanigans, because shenanigans are fun to write and illustrate! Why are we only getting Emmett's supposed wild streak secondhand?

Emmett, Bubbles, and Faye are pretty much inoffensive for me. Even entertaining. I would prefer we focus on Northampton, but barring that, I wish we could stick with each of these scenes and see it through to the end instead of switching back mid-scene repeatedly -- the storylines don't really go together all that much, and it's jarring to get just two strips in and then cut away.

At this point I'm only interested in Cubetown for the ways it can go fantastically pear-shaped. The current scene with Evan completely changing body shape and then rushing in to accost the Goblin Scientist was confusing but in a way that was fun to be confused about. Cutting away from the dumpster fire just as it reaches a milk carton full of crude oil is deeply unsatisfying.

[Rodin]

I will say that today's comic is the first to give me a good laugh in a while. The Leopard tank joke is quality, as is the cat-like treads comment.

Does Coffee of Doom feel empty to anyone else? It seems like the only person ever on duty there these days is Hannelore, with even Dora rarely making an appearance at her own shop.

In the past CoD usually had a full staff of 3-4 people, along with whoever happened to be visiting at the time (usually Marten). The extra people would be throwing in witty asides or just contributing to the conversation. Now it's just Hannelore, who is rarely seen outside the shop herself.

[Keltest]

I will say that today's comic is the first to give me a good laugh in a while. The Leopard tank joke is quality, as is the cat-like treads comment.

Does Coffee of Doom feel empty to anyone else? It seems like the only person ever on duty there these days is Hannelore, with even Dora rarely making an appearance at her own shop.

In the past CoD usually had a full staff of 3-4 people, along with whoever happened to be visiting at the time (usually Marten). The extra people would be throwing in witty asides or just contributing to the conversation. Now it's just Hannelore, who is rarely seen outside the shop herself.

There would also be, you know, customers there. Any coffee shop where people can just hang out all day is a failing coffee shop.

[Gwynfrid]

I will say that today's comic is the first to give me a good laugh in a while. The Leopard tank joke is quality, as is the cat-like treads comment.

This comes to show how varied reactions to humor can be. To me, the Leopard joke fell completely flat. I also found it to be in very poor taste, looking at how deadly serious that term is, in the current IRL context.

In contrast, and contrary to the vast majority on this thread, I find the Cubetown shenanigans mostly amusing, in a goofy-to-bonkers fashion (very much on brand for Jeph, that).

To each their own, I guess. Not the most original takeaway.

[Delicious Taffy]

Crass remarks about breats, detaching limbs, stuck in a small room for an extended period of time? I'm getting echoes of recently-embodied May, before the wasted design change. (Seriously, what's she done in her new body, aside from act vaguely more responsible? I want more Giant May.)

[Vinyadan]

I currently prefer AI Island. It's a cruel, mean place full of dislikeable people where the author's pet gets to be treated like royalty, but there also constantly are new things popping up. Plus, it's interesting to me to see the chasm between what I assume Jeph means to write and what I end up reading.

I've never been a fan of Union Robotics, and I can't understand why Faye and Bubbles should keep attracting young teens. Not only that, I don't like the interactions they have with them: I think they are very stiff. I think Emmet worked better in a more normal setting, at home with family or with Sam. Also, in general, I think QC works a lot better when describing situations with more than two people, like people hanging out in the evening, with dialogues between just two people better reserved for "setting things straight", like asking for advice or telling each other personal stuff.

More importantly, I don't think Northampton has anything going on story-wise (hard to tell, though, with all the line-jumps). What I think was the best QC era (around Marigold dealing with Angus dealing with Faye) actually had a story, with many different love stories intersecating and reaching a resolution. AI Island at least has potential.

[Traab]

So, just to try and comprehend, the current issue is securi-bot heard the goblin child was out in the open and apparently decided this was an emergency she had to rush out and handle right away, and she seems to be totally unaware of the fact that she is the one causing a scene here. Well, goblin girl is apparently kinda horny for the lady bots, as one is. Did it never occur to her that it isnt her job to try and police random members of the island into not scaring off new hires? Also, why is she so panicked at the idea of claire deciding to reject the job after meeting this rude little girl?

[KillianHawkeye]

Did it never occur to her that it isnt her job to try and police random members of the island into not scaring off new hires?

Considering how her character was introduced, no, I don't think it occurred to her. Then again, her job duties seem to be largely undefined.

What worries me more is that this is apparently the first time she's being told about her half-awake sleepwalking escapades, and she's been thinking they're just weird dreams for however long it's been going on.

[Vinyadan]

In a way, her being scared Claire won't take the job explains her behaviour when she first met her, offering her a meeting with Big Tentacle.

Why would she be that scared? Because AI Island is hell.

Actually, one could make a game out of this: a giant facility in the sea, free of all constrains cast by belonging to a State, where everyone is free to do as he wants and science to advance unhindered. Maybe with some body horror elements from modifications...

Oh, and we can make a sequel with Claire: where a woman comes to this place and tries to create a new order of things, but refusing the unrestrained capitalism, while relying on images like family and such!

[Keltest]

You know, I could be mistaken, but I think Evan's arms have gotten half again as thick compared to their first appearance.

[theangelJean]

You know, I could be mistaken, but I think Evan's arms have gotten half again as thick compared to their first appearance.

Jeph's three-character differentiation at work again. Evan is big, Liz is little, and the blue one is curvy. Oh, and they're all different colours.

[halfeye]

You know, I could be mistaken, but I think Evan's arms have gotten half again as thick compared to their first appearance.

You don't mind Liz's arm joints sliding up and down her arms like yoyos?

[Ionathus]

I’ve got no idea who I’m supposed to root for, care about, or agree with in this scene.

Failing that, I’m defaulting to “Claire is being obnoxious for being a new hire, yet bossing around multiple people she’s known for less than a day.”

Obviously somebody had to say something to Goblin Scientist about her harassment of Evan. It’s just weird that that person turned out to be Claire, and it’s weird that Claire chose to go about it in the way she did. And then immediately turned around and scolded Evan too?

Cubetown continues to play absolute havoc with Claire’s characterization.

[Keltest]

I’ve got no idea who I’m supposed to root for, care about, or agree with in this scene.

Failing that, I’m defaulting to “Claire is being obnoxious for being a new hire, yet bossing around multiple people she’s known for less than a day.”

Obviously somebody had to say something to Goblin Scientist about her harassment of Evan. It’s just weird that that person turned out to be Claire, and it’s weird that Claire chose to go about it in the way she did. And then immediately turned around and scolded Evan too?

Cubetown continues to play absolute havoc with Claire’s characterization.

Claire is reacting negatively to people being rude. I don't think that's particularly inconsistent. Why, exactly, people look up to Claire in a way that lets her chastise them is a mystery to me, but it is at least something they have done from the start. Especially Evan.

[Traab]

I really dont get it myself. Like, WE know claire is basically going to Luna her way through cubetown being oh so great at everything, but the residents seem to be treating claire as if she already has lunaed her way through a dozen scenarios and become famous for it. As for this comic, meh, calling out someone for being unacceptably rude/mean spirited is fine. Its an odd confluence of cultural events that causes confusion. Because most people "dont want to make a scene" or consider it rude to call out people for their own rudeness, but at the same time, we acknowledge that certain behavior isnt right and wish someone would put a stop to it. So I get a sort of uneasy reaction to claire calling goblina out. I also feel like goblinas behavior fits her established character. She is a social shut in who has gotten drunk probably for the first time and thus lost control of her behavior, whatever amount she had. Then she gets verbally thwacked and with her lack of social interaction experience resolves the embarrassment the only way she can, by fleeing from it. Funny thing is, marten is absolutely right, if he doesnt go after her to try and talk things out, she absolutely would have stewed over things, then gone back into cave troll mode and hidden from the world, this time because she "knows" how bad it is out there.

[Ionathus]

I really dont get it myself. Like, WE know claire is basically going to Luna her way through cubetown being oh so great at everything, but the residents seem to be treating claire as if she already has lunaed her way through a dozen scenarios and become famous for it. As for this comic, meh, calling out someone for being unacceptably rude/mean spirited is fine. Its an odd confluence of cultural events that causes confusion. Because most people "dont want to make a scene" or consider it rude to call out people for their own rudeness, but at the same time, we acknowledge that certain behavior isnt right and wish someone would put a stop to it. So I get a sort of uneasy reaction to claire calling goblina out. I also feel like goblinas behavior fits her established character. She is a social shut in who has gotten drunk probably for the first time and thus lost control of her behavior, whatever amount she had. Then she gets verbally thwacked and with her lack of social interaction experience resolves the embarrassment the only way she can, by fleeing from it. Funny thing is, marten is absolutely right, if he doesnt go after her to try and talk things out, she absolutely would have stewed over things, then gone back into cave troll mode and hidden from the world, this time because she "knows" how bad it is out there.

Yep, I agree with most of this. It's good that somebody called it out, and I didn't expect Liz to handle it in a mature way. But it's still just weird seeing Bossy Claire. Wasn't this the same person who had to get an entire coaching session from her previous boss for how to stand up for herself and prioritize her own needs, because she was nervous about the possibility that MAYBE her boyfriend (a wet noodle of a human with zero ambition) might not be instantly 100% stoked about moving to Cubetown (if she even got the job she hadn't even interviewed for yet)?

Claire used to be an absolute dork who worshiped libraries a comical amount, struggled to assert herself, and needed to be psyched up to pierce her ears. She loved to make fun of her brother and tried to sneakily influence his love life, but that was the full extent of her assertiveness. And that was all part of her identity and it worked for me. I'm not sure how much Jeph intended to explore her growing self-confidence as a trans woman, but that could've worked really well if he'd developed this a little more gradually and examined how that can shake out for people in her situation.

I just can't wrap my head around her being the newly designated Team Mom in the space of like 2 strips. This doesn't feel like character development, it just feels like skipping all the middle steps and re-inventing a character to tell the story you wanted to tell. You just flip a switch and now your meek people-pleaser becomes a bossy know-it-all who's going to solve the world's problems.

[Willie the Duck]

Cubetown continues to play absolute havoc with Claire’s characterization.

Claire is reacting negatively to people being rude. I don't think that's particularly inconsistent. Why, exactly, people look up to Claire in a way that lets her chastise them is a mystery to me, but it is at least something they have done from the start. Especially Evan.

I really dont get it myself. Like, WE know claire is basically going to Luna her way through cubetown being oh so great at everything, but the residents seem to be treating claire as if she already has lunaed her way through a dozen scenarios and become famous for it.
I'm certainly not going to defend the quality of this happening, but the rest of the characterizations flow through pretty consistently if you accept that Claire has gone through a cosmic retcon from normal library masters student known mostly for her insecurity into some straight-shooter who calls it like they sees it, and that the five-dimensional-chess jellyfishbot (whom all of Cubetown believes doesn't make mistakes) believes she's going to be the one to save their project. Aside from effectively replacing the Claire we knew instead of introducing someone new, it's not completely unlike Harry Potter or the like. There'd be a lot more usable tension if there were some people in Cubetown who were saying things like, 'Chosen one? Heh! I don't buy it. Let her show us that she's all she's talked up to be' or the like. Or maybe like the Poochy Simpsons episode where Lisa's idea and Homer's voice acting are going to save Itchy and Scratchy, but it all goes horribly wrong.

[BRC]

The whole thing with Cubetown seems to be, basically, a kindergarten full of unsupervised children. The closest thing to an authority figure is Moray as head of HR/ the Voice of the Director, and she's both too incompetent and too much of a people pleaser to do anything.


The point here is to set up a situation where Jeph can says "Here's the Problem", and Claire can force the wacky characters to do the Sensible Thing by being a Reasonable Adult in a world of Wacky Children.


The weird bit isn't Claire filling this role (While she's had her insecurities in the past, She's had a consistent trait of taking things seriously in the face of wackiness), it's how all of Cubetown seems to have aligned on the idea that hiring a librarian means that the Anarchy is Over and She Will Be In Charge Now.

[Vinyadan]

Luna had to be cursed, captured, killed, buried underground, and kill herself twice before she ascended to the state of Savage Messiah and Egg-Giver. She also had to manifest her powers, and make it in an unquestionable way, which put her in danger of retaliation by the most powerful Orcs (which did come). Claire instead was just randomly bestowed the title of Saviour by the boss, and everyone went along with it; she didn't gain it, if not by not running away when she was offered it, for which she is being copiously rewarded ("very good terms").

Second, I've long had the impression that Claire isn't much of a character per se. I mean, she kinda was before becoming Marten's girlfried -- very nerdy, and a rather insecure, dedicated "straight man" that was trying to hop on the socialisation train. Afterwards, however, she generally struck me as being meant to be either admirable and in the right or adorable and supercute. There wasn't much room for a character at that point.

For me, the weird here is that Evanescence is being scolded for something she said, and not for the assault she committed. I guess it's how comedy works?

[BRC]

Luna had to be cursed, captured, killed, buried underground, and kill herself twice before she ascended to the state of Savage Messiah and Egg-Giver. She also had to manifest her powers, and make it in an unquestionable way, which put her in danger of retaliation by the most powerful Orcs (which did come). Claire instead was just randomly bestowed the title of Saviour by the boss, and everyone went along with it; she didn't gain it, if not by not running away when she was offered it, for which she is being copiously rewarded ("very good terms").

Second, I've long had the impression that Claire isn't much of a character per se. I mean, she kinda was before becoming Marten's girlfried -- very nerdy, and a rather insecure, dedicated "straight man" that was trying to hop on the socialisation train. Afterwards, however, she generally struck me as being meant to be either admirable and in the right or adorable and supercute. There wasn't much room for a character at that point.

For me, the weird here is that Evanescence is being scolded for something she said, and not for the assault she committed. I guess it's how comedy works?

I think this could all work for me if The Director had spat out a Moray that said "Things are too crazy here, we will hire...A LIBRARIAN! AND THEY WILL BE THE RESPONSIBLE ADULT THAT FIXES EVERYTHING!"

Which, that would be goofy and dumb, but Cubetown is already a bit Culty, and it would fit within the realm of comedy for why everybody is acting this way towards Claire because the big jellyfish decided that A Librarian is what is needed to fix Cubetown's dysfunction.

[Vinyadan]

I think it would be pretty funny if people in CubeTown went uncomfortably all-out Cult of Claire, with hooded robes and everything. Maybe it would be more Sluggy Freelance than QC, but funny nonetheless. But it would require some self-awareness about how this place looks, and I'm not sure Jeph is there, or maybe he's self-aware in another way (something like "nothing is serious anyway in this comic, except when it is, so you're waisting your time trying to understand it in a realistic or coherent fashion").

[KillianHawkeye]

Who the hell is Luna? :smallconfused:

[Shadow of the Sun]

Who the hell is Luna? :smallconfused:

Dominic Deegan reference. Infamous webcomic Mary Sue.

[Vinyadan]

Who the hell is Luna? :smallconfused:

You know not of Luna, the Glorious Wife of the Lord Dominus?

There's even a band about her, Cult of Luna!

OK, not really, although the band does exist.

The story made short: Dominic started out as a nerdy misanthrope who worked as an oracle for the idiotic inhabitants of his village. He was cursed by an old noblewoman who couldn't take his predictions. To get a cure, he infiltrated the noblewoman's castle, to find out that she was trying to have her daughter Luna kill herself to cash in her life insurance. A local knight killed the noblewoman, but Luna found out she had been disinherited and threw herself from a bridge. She was found by Dominic, who took her home, and they became a couple.

Then it turned out that this poor bastard Dominic was actually the son of an immensely powerful Archmage, Miranda, and an immensely popular bard. His brothers both were big-shot wizards. Dominic saved the world a few times and became the centre of the universe. Also, his mom gave him and Luna teaching and researching jobs at her awesome magic university.

Anyway, the author tried very hard to drive home the point that Luna was so awesome. And so brave. And stuff. Which started to get a bit weird when Dominic and Luna turned from a pair of barely employed misfits in their twenties into a somewhat judgmental couple of powerhouse wizards that were part of a powerful dynasty somehow involved in all important stuff in the multiverse -- even the King of Hell used to be a family friend.

Anyway, Luna was so awesome that the elements chose her to be the white, blonde saviour of the tribal Orcs of the Maltak Wasteland. It really wasn't a cakewalk, but, in the end, she became the Watercaller and something close to a Holy Mommy of the Orcs. She also became sterile in the process, but she was special-infertile (https://www.dominic-deegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2610_20110125.gif), and donated all viable eggs to other women. Then, a dragon gave her his heart so she could save the world by beam-spamming. The end. Luna was always an ancillary figure to Dominic, the moon to his sun, but still of cosmic importance.

[Mechalich]

The weird bit isn't Claire filling this role (While she's had her insecurities in the past, She's had a consistent trait of taking things seriously in the face of wackiness), it's how all of Cubetown seems to have aligned on the idea that hiring a librarian means that the Anarchy is Over and She Will Be In Charge Now.

There's a difference between 'taking things seriously' and 'being a boss b****,' which is what Claire has transitioned into doing more or less immediately upon arrival in Cubetown. And out of all the major characters in QC, I'd put Claire pretty far down the list of people for whom taking the necessary - but brutal, thankless, and miserable - role of office dragon is a choice they'd make instead of simply running away in sheer terror at Cubetown's monstrous incompetence. I'd put her behind: Dora, Faye, Tai, Clinton, Dale, Renee, Bubbles, Steve, Roko, and her own mother. That last one matters, since the only even close to reasonable explanation behind Claire's personality change is that she's gone into 'Aurelia Mode' since arriving in Cubetown. That's actually more plausible than most explanations for such a drastic shift in behavior, but the comic, through Marten, needs to call it out.

[Vinyadan]

Now I like the idea of Veronica Vance taking the job instead of Claire.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Now I like the idea of Veronica Vance taking the job instead of Claire.

My immediate thought was "you are placing a dominatrix in the same area as a boss with tentacles (or at least tendrils)?", and immediately decided to alight from the train of thought right there, even if it meant pulling the cord and paying the £1000 fine...

[Vinyadan]

My immediate thought was "you are placing a dominatrix in the same area as a boss with tentacles (or at least tendrils)?", and immediately decided to alight from the train of thought right there, even if it meant pulling the cord and paying the £1000 fine...

Hey, you forgot the Wondrous Slime Woman!

And I'm sure that someone out there would love a story about a man with a massive, sentient arm.

[Rodin]

That last one matters, since the only even close to reasonable explanation behind Claire's personality change is that she's gone into 'Aurelia Mode' since arriving in Cubetown. That's actually more plausible than most explanations for such a drastic shift in behavior, but the comic, through Marten, needs to call it out.

I don't believe for a minute that Jeph realizes he's done this. He has a long history of falling in love with an idea or character trait and welding it onto whichever character he most enjoys writing at that particular moment.

In this case, he enjoyed writing Aurelia's "mom energy". Aurelia is difficult to write into the story, so Claire magically gets it instead.

As to the whole "god librarian" thing....

Gunnerkrigg Court is currently going through a similar setup with Kat. She's the Angel of the robots. The difference is in how its handled. Kat got that moniker after some genuinely impressive achievements, with the implication that there was some mystical seeing what she becomes in the future tossed in. And as she's moved into that role, it has become more and more ominous. The story foreshadowed that she would become a Chosen One, has now made her into a Chosen One, and is now dealing with the implications. And this has taken over a decade real time to slowly build up to it.

There's no such justification with Claire. We have the word of a sentient jellyfish that she's somehow uniquely suited for the job. And that's all. She hasn't solved any problems since she arrived. Even the Liz situation is down to Marten bringing attention to her. And yet people are talking about her in worshipful tones and acting like she's a celebrity while she's been in Cubetown for less than a day.

It's such a cringey Creator's Pet move that it hurts. Claire was my favorite character for a while, but holy crap has her characterization fallen off a cliff.

[KillianHawkeye]

Dominic Deegan reference. Infamous webcomic Mary Sue.

Then just use the term Mary Sue next time? It's a general term that most people are familiar with.

But let's not assume that just because we read one webcomic, that we've read all the other ones before this, okay? Like, just because I watch Dragonball doesn't mean I know any Naruto lore, and that applies at least 10x to webcomics which have much less general reach than a movie or an anime does.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Then just use the term Mary Sue next time? It's a general term that most people are familiar with.

But let's not assume that just because we read one webcomic, that we've read all the other ones before this, okay? Like, just because I watch Dragonball doesn't mean I know any Naruto lore, and that applies at least 10x to webcomics which have much less general reach than a movie or an anime does.

I wasn't the one who used the term, so don't direct this at me.

[Vinyadan]

Then just use the term Mary Sue next time? It's a general term that most people are familiar with.

But let's not assume that just because we read one webcomic, that we've read all the other ones before this, okay? Like, just because I watch Dragonball doesn't mean I know any Naruto lore, and that applies at least 10x to webcomics which have much less general reach than a movie or an anime does.

I think I will continue to refer to Luna, for three reasons. The first reason is that I have put time and effort in a post that explained her story, so ignorance is no excuse any more :tongue: The second reason is that an example allows for better comparison than a vague term. The third reason is that we cannot and should not expect everyone to have consumed the same media, but this cannot and should not stop us from mentioning characters and situations in other media we have consumed, because we come from all over the world, and it would grind to a halt any conversation where we try to make comparisons between QC and something else. You requested additional information, I provided it, and I feel that's enough.

[Traab]

Too be honest, mary sue is too generic for me. Because luna isnt actually a true mary sue. She has her issues, some of them even intentional ones created by the author! She isnt flawless and its pretty clearly the case in story, but as part of the DD snark squad i got used to using her to denote an annoying character that is somehow a messiah type despite a great deal of confusion as to how it even happened because despite being great (so great) she is also an awful character. But yeah, because this is the message board where I spent literal years snarking and reading snark about the comic I used the term when I recognized the character without thinking that despite it being a thread that went through like 30 sets of 50 pages over the course of its existence, not everyone reads or knows about it.

[Vinyadan]

Too be honest, mary sue is too generic for me. Because luna isnt actually a true mary sue. She has her issues, some of them even intentional ones created by the author! She isnt flawless and its pretty clearly the case in story, but as part of the DD snark squad i got used to using her to denote an annoying character that is somehow a messiah type despite a great deal of confusion as to how it even happened because despite being great (so great) she is also an awful character. But yeah, because this is the message board where I spent literal years snarking and reading snark about the comic I used the term when I recognized the character without thinking that despite it being a thread that went through like 30 sets of 50 pages over the course of its existence, not everyone reads or knows about it.

The funny part is that used to think Dominic Deegan was some sort of big household name, like Homestuck. The threads about it were always at the top of the page! Then I finally read it when it was about to be finished, and joined the snark.

[KillianHawkeye]

The funny part is that used to think Dominic Deegan was some sort of big household name, like Homestuck.

I don't know what that is, either.

[Gez]

I don't know what that is, either.

A colossal waste of time. (http://cdn.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/00831.gif)

[Vinyadan]

I don't know what that is, either.

A webcomic/multimedia thing that seems to pop up everywhere. I have never read it, though. I think there's a cat with a sword and a shield in it, and the art deliberately looks like it's made with MS Paint.

[Wraith]

The webcomic explosion of the early 00's was a wild time. So many came and went, jostling the top 100 of the Top 100 Webcomics lists every month, yet more made their artists into minor celebrities... And I'll be damned if I can remember any of them that aren't weird little projects that lasted about a year and were then abandoned forever.

Some people here don't remember Dominic Deegan; *I* remember Cup of Suffering! And Swenson Funnies! And Megatokyo when it was almost fun!

....Christ, I'm old....

[Traab]

The funny thing about DD was it managed to remain both incredibly make funnable, while staying JUST this side of readable. Like, if you werent a part of the message board community tearing it to shreds, I bet half the readers bare minimum would have dropped the comic in short order. It was just so much fun to mock the terrible art, terrible story, terrible characters, memeable panels, that we all just stuck around to keep going. He actually did a followup series that I tried reading for awhile but gave up on long ago. Its apparently still going though. I think it was when the water orc had sex with the mute mutant in its full terribly drawn glory.

[Johanny]

I for one don't know who this Mary Sue is, but know of Luna and Homestuck (which I ceased to read pretty early).

I read them like many webcomics, as an easy read that cares too much about continuity for being able to see that when you need three pages of explanation to justify the logic behind an action, it's worse than a retcon. I mean I've never read anything approaching it in good comics nor in good books: you don't see Shakespeare explaining how Polonius gets killed in one movement, or Hugo saying how much weight Jean Valjean lifts daily at age 50 to be able to lift a horse cart, or Schnitzler calculating the time it takes to go from Prater to the opera... It doesn't matter, because even if you recognize the irrealism here and there, it's not a scientific treaty about swordfight, weightlifting or best Vienna routes, the rest is enough to make you yield a certain sum of disbelief...

And the problem with QC today, it's that the rest is not enough to fill a second zone newspaper syndication. It's silly, but not to the point to make it pythonily humorous. Quips are rare and screwball is gone. It's gone from a funny timekiller to a timely funkiller.

[DaFlipp]

I don't know what that is, either.

To give a more complete answer, as someone who wasn't a mega-fan but did read it all the way through: Homestuck's a webcomic from the early 10's that started off extremely niche, but somewhere around its midpoint developed an almost absurdly active fan community, due in large part to the webcomic's experimental and interactive nature (it had segments that were animated, segments that were playable mini-video games, one section was rendered in freaking claymation, and it was filled with surprisingly high-quality music from the very engaged fan community - including songs from Toby Fox, who went on to develop Undertale, which developed into its own big fandom).

Of course, with every big fandom comes a slew of toxic/overbearing/overzealous fans, and Homestuck absolutely had its fair share. And eventually, Homestuck wound up squandering a lot of the good will it had built up even with its own fans, due to a cascade of fiascos and controversies that I don't really have the time to lay out, but let's just say its epilogue and sequel series were *not*, on the whole, well-received. (And that's not even getting into the video game spinoff, which successfully garnered two and a half million dollars on Kickstarter back in 2012 only to immediately dive headfirst into Development Hell...)

[KillianHawkeye]

Thanks for the answers, but the point of saying that I'm not familiar with a particular thing isn't necessarily a request to get familiar with it.

[Bilious]

I'm sorry that conversation sparking off of a comment in a forum thread wasn't what you desired when making said comment.

[Ionathus]

In other news, today’s strip is the most relatable Liz has ever been: Drunk barfing is no fun and a real universal humbler.

Nice varied perspective in the drawing too.

[Vinyadan]

I've actually started to wonder if Elizabeth is the best QC character of the last ten years. As a human she would be deeply flawed and possibly unbearable, but, as a character, she is coherent with her backstory and has some very high stakes going on for herself. Plus she's the only real opposition Claire has met, and gives Marten something to care and act about.

[Cikomyr2]

I still think her problem is more about he unresolved issue about matching people's expectations of her and her having an inflated idea of people's expectations of her.

She doesnt want to admit weakness, or unviability, and it will take a lot of therapy for help to start dealing with it.

[Gez]

I'm just wondering why her arms are cold (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5042). They're detachable robo-arms. Her blood doesn't flow through them. They should be thermo-regulated by their electronics. Why is she holding them in the heat conservation posture?

[Keltest]

I'm just wondering why her arms are cold (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5042). They're detachable robo-arms. Her blood doesn't flow through them. They should be thermo-regulated by their electronics. Why is she holding them in the heat conservation posture?

Her torso could be cold as well, or she could just be uncomfortable.

[Cikomyr2]

I'm just wondering why her arms are cold (https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=5042). They're detachable robo-arms. Her blood doesn't flow through them. They should be thermo-regulated by their electronics. Why is she holding them in the heat conservation posture?

Maybe its more psychosomatic. She is feeling vulnerable and wants to shelter herself emotionally.

[Rodin]

Maybe its more psychosomatic. She is feeling vulnerable and wants to shelter herself emotionally.

Pretty sure she's actually cold. Marten takes off his jacket and gives it to her between panels 3 and 4. Took me ages to figure that out.

What time of year is it again? I don't remember where the last timeskip dropped us in the year.

I saw it noted on Reddit that we've been on this singular day for over 120 strips (so over 5 months) and another similar amount of time back to when Claire got the job offer. We're on course to have Claire's job interview (because this is her look-see visit which is still part of her interview) take over a full year of real time.

[Willie the Duck]

What time of year is it again?

Any-whens, in the ocean off the coast of Canada, at night.

[Wraith]

I can't help but feel just how much more this sequence underlines the fact that Claire and Marten should not stay in Cubetown.

He isn't responsible for Liz's welfare; the Director of HR is. He isn't responsible for her safety; the Head of Security is. He's not even responsible for cutting off drinks; the bartender is.

And they're just sat there, talking crap and making inane comments while the child (I don't care that "she's really 19, honest!", she's obviously a child) runs out drunkenly into the dark, alone. What will it take for them to realise that this place is a deathtrap and/or nervous breakdown waiting to happen?

There's wacky hijinks and suspension of disbelief one one hand, but this is just a constant parade of terrible people being unpleasant. I appreciate that I am increasingly detached from QC's target audience, but its becoming truly baffling to me to read this and think that someone might find it entertaining?

[Mechalich]

And they're just sat there, talking crap and making inane comments while the child (I don't care that "she's really 19, honest!", she's obviously a child) runs out drunkenly into the dark, alone.

It is entirely possible for someone to be legally an adult and, in terms of mental and emotional maturity, still a child. That clearly applies in Liz's case. And there are real people like that. However, people like that tend to be stuck into hideous cycles of dependency and end up at the bottom of the societal ladder. They aren't the kind of aggressive go-getters who acquire multiple PhDs by the age of nineteen or who choose to move to the middle of nowhere to take jobs in a place where they have no friends and family.

That's the central incongruity to Liz: her personality is a massive mismatch to her position. Now, sometimes this sort of thing can happen because a naturally talented person is managed, pushed, and otherwise controlled by extremely overbearing parents. This is common with, for example, child actors (Shia Lebeouf's life story, about which he has been very open to the point of making a semi-autobiographical movie, is a fairly textbook case). This cannot be the case for Liz though, since her parents allowed her a massive level of independence, so much that they did not visit her once in a two-year period.


What will it take for them to realise that this place is a deathtrap and/or nervous breakdown waiting to happen?

Well, they have to go back to Northampton at the conclusion of this interview, which would offer an opportunity to reflect. If I were allowed to suddenly take over the story at that point, I'd have Claire unwind a long story about the trip to Aurelia and/or Clinton, and then have that information make its way to Roko, who would then almost literally explode at the conditions in Cubetown, call someone equivalent to herself in Canada, and then have Yay cackle madly as they watched Cubetown disintegrate under a giant pile of fines, mismanagement charges, and lawsuits. I mean seriously, Cubetown has functionally unlimited money and is guilty of a string of safety, financial, and labor violations that would fill a three-ring binder, lawyers should be more abundant than sharks in that park of the North Atlantic (especially since the various Morays are not necessarily legally independent entities from the Director, making the entirety of Cubetown potentially liable for any mistake they make).

[Beelzebub1111]

One thing I don't understand is that we were introduced to several new characters who had some level of interesting stuff going on. And we seem to have adopted the one that is an abrasive jerk whose circumstance is mostly a result of her own actions. And this is all framed like..."oh poor baby" while also trying to say that she's an adult. It's frustrating to say the least.

Honestly, she reminds me of all the worst aspects of Faye. Another snarky sarcastic girl who is mean and insults you but is actually really sad and maudlin, and can pivot on a dime as long as marten is there to help her out. It's practically Jeph's signature at this point.

[Ionathus]

It's practically Jeph's signature at this point.

Oh lord, we've adopted another one. (https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2298)

[Mechalich]

One thing I don't understand is that we were introduced to several new characters who had some level of interesting stuff going on. And we seem to have adopted the one that is an abrasive jerk whose circumstance is mostly a result of her own actions. And this is all framed like..."oh poor baby" while also trying to say that she's an adult. It's frustrating to say the least.

Honestly, she reminds me of all the worst aspects of Faye. Another snarky sarcastic girl who is mean and insults you but is actually really sad and maudlin, and can pivot on a dime as long as marten is there to help her out. It's practically Jeph's signature at this point.

The character I think Liz resembles the most (and could quite possibly be modeled on, given Jeph's age and Massachusetts-related past), is Will Hunting from the film Good Will Hunting. Both characters are precocious mathematical geniuses who are aggressively defensive to the point of massive self-sabotage and who are broadly incapable of taking control of their own lives. The big difference is the Will had a good reason for being messed up as he was, a history of childhood abuse, and a logical-in-context history of messing up throughout his youth that left him on the verge of self-destruction that only the unexpected recognition of his genius and the choices of others to reach out and support him at significant personal cost offered the possibility of escape. Also, the movie is quite careful to make certain that while the audience is supposed to feel bad for Will, it also calls him out for wasting his potential.

One of the big problems with Liz is that QC has broadly failed to show or tell us anything about her potential. Yes, she apparently earned two PhDs at a very young age, but that's a credential, not an accomplishment. And then she apparently wasted two years doing nothing. The world contains plenty of people in self-destructive death spirals, and it's impossible to save them all. QC needs to provide a reason why saving this one is something we, the audience, should care about.

[Scarlet Manuka]

The raunchiest of auras? Is that really what you meant to say?

(some browsing of online dictionaries later)

OK, so some dictionaries list dirty, slovenly, etc. as a secondary meaning (a very few have it as the primary). I hadn't come across that usage before. I still think e.g. "rankest" would have been a better choice, but OK.

[Wraith]

It sort-of works from a Commonwealth perspective? "Raunchy" in Britain usually means exciting or excitable, usually with a sexual or tantalising implication, but also (less commonly, yet perfectly sensibly) just in a platonic sense. "Telling a raunchy joke" could mean one referring to sexual content, and/or one that has a lot of foul-but-good-natured language in it. Think it like, someone who is flirting outrageously by telling crude jokes but staying just on the 'fun' side of obscene.

It's a little bit odd, but it parses and I had just put it down the the British/Canadian English differing from American English. Not that it would mean anything for Marten, but from Jeph who has no such consistency among his characters and their quirks, it makes sense.

I don't think Marten meant to suggest that his hoodie would calm down someone whose aura was being sexually explicit. In context, I think the word that he was going for should have been 'the rowdiest of auras'.

[otakuryoga]

hmmmm, couldnt they just call Sam?
she prolly knows where Emmit lives
or her number(see if they hear her phone ring)
or her moms number

[Wraith]

Just.

Go.

Home.

You're either already late, and standing around squealing about it in a coffee shop is only making it worse... Or you're not, and you arrive home early without consequence except having to look for your 'phone.

That's it. That's how you solve this critical, "interrupt your Cubetown for this special emergency broadcast" dilemma.

It occurs to me that this plan relies on Emmett knowing their own address, which at this point is... y'know..... :smallconfused:

Alternatively; Mom is Professor of the Internet so she's absolutely guaranteed to have an email address that shows up on Google (if not an office extension for 'phone as well), and at least one person present in the room right now has wi-fi access inside their skull.

I'm not sure how those two facts could be related, maybe someone smarter than me can help. :smalltongue::smallwink:

[Vinyadan]

I share the confusion as to why this arc is happening, although a part of me wants it to be about something amazingly dumb, like a Vespavenger-style crusader that now steals teenagers cellphones to break them free of obsessive parental control. Faye and Bubbles will now have to enter the CellSader's Dungeon and retrieve Sam-not-Sam's phone, while the kid actually follows them around as a weepy cohort.

[geoduck]

It might be an attempt to actually show how Elliot keeps getting into trouble which so far has only been described after the fact.

[Willie the Duck]

It might be an attempt to actually show how Emmet keeps getting into trouble which so far has only been described after the fact.

Hmm. As much as we are all internally screaming things like, 'Just. Go. Home.,' these are relatively accurate teen behaviors (being careless or thoughtless and ending up in a minorly bad situation and then freezing up rather than doing the sensible thing to remedy the situation). If this plot is to showcase how Elliot ends up in trouble, all that's left is a discussion while they walk back about other times this has happened, but with significantly more 'trouble' (including us getting the last half of a story involving fire, flooded basements, excessive amounts of ferrets, or whatnot).

Subplot: I forget, does Bubbles know that Yay needs to be weened from their privacy violation godmode schtick?

[Ionathus]

Emmett continues to not be an interesting troublemaker. If "stayed out too late and lost their phone" counts as wacky hijinks, then I'm the freaking Joker by comparison.

[Keltest]

Hmm. As much as we are all internally screaming things like, 'Just. Go. Home.,' these are relatively accurate teen behaviors (being careless or thoughtless and ending up in a minorly bad situation and then freezing up rather than doing the sensible thing to remedy the situation). If this plot is to showcase how Elliot ends up in trouble, all that's left is a discussion while they walk back about other times this has happened, but with significantly more 'trouble' (including us getting the last half of a story involving fire, flooded basements, excessive amounts of ferrets, or whatnot).

Subplot: I forget, does Bubbles know that Yay needs to be weened from their privacy violation godmode schtick?

I don't actually know how much this is a privacy violation. Phonebooks are still technically a thing, and even though cell phones have made them largely unhelpful, the idea that your phone number is public is still a thing in a lot of people, especially the older generations.