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Skjaldbakka
2007-12-04, 12:14 AM
And other such declarations that are gauranteed to spark a long debate. Apparently, whether or not Balrogs have wings is an instant source of debate in many forums. There are several topics I have noticed have a similar effect on this forum.

Lets see how many we can come up with:

1: Monks Don't Suck!
2: Fighters Don't Suck!
3: ToB is too Anime!
4: Druids Aren't Broken!

Archangel Yuki
2007-12-04, 12:16 AM
And it was i on the grassy knoll.

5. Fighters can take mages.

Swordguy
2007-12-04, 12:30 AM
6. Anything regarding Alignment.

There. I win.

herrhauptmann
2007-12-04, 12:32 AM
7) Spiked Chain: Anything regarding it.

Citizen Joe
2007-12-04, 12:39 AM
8) "Pi is exactly THREE!" Prof. Frink

Draz74
2007-12-04, 12:42 AM
6. Anything regarding Alignment.

6a) Anything about Paladins.

6aa) ***Anything about Miko.***

Squatting_Monk
2007-12-04, 01:39 AM
I always wondered how this debate even survived. "...its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen..."

7. Whether threads like this belong here or in Silly Message Board Games.

Dausuul
2007-12-04, 01:45 AM
8. A 20th-level [X] can kill a 20th-level wizard. [X] can be anything, including wizard. Bonus points if you don't include any kind of specific scenario.

RoboticSheeple
2007-12-04, 01:54 AM
Balrog isn't a d20 monster, who cares?

herrhauptmann
2007-12-04, 01:56 AM
I think it should probably go in silly message thingamajiggy.
Right after math class.
8 folows 7. Not 6a and 6aa.
Also it should go near grammar class. Their != They're != There, We're != Were != Where != Wear.

Anyway, those are some of my peeves.

I was gonna put a 12) in this post, but didn't have any that would really work.

SofS
2007-12-04, 02:01 AM
9) Anything regarding one edition of D&D in comparison to another.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-04, 02:05 AM
Their != They're != There, We're != Were != Where != Wear.

I didn't see any offenders on this point in this thread. Which isn't about pet peeves. Also, depending on the value of a, 6a and 6aa can be in between 6 and 7.

10. Aragorn is 5th level!

Jayabalard
2007-12-04, 02:13 AM
I always wondered how this debate even survived. "...its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandlaf could be seen..."Among other reasons:

They are explicitly described elsewhere without wings; this is primarily in content that was written before but published after fellowship.
Earlier drafts of this scene (the bridge scene) do no depict the Balrog as winged, and some claim that the differences in drafts show that the "wings" that appear in the final draft are metaphorical. In fact, in the earliest drafts of the scene the peril of Moria is not even a Balrog.
Other statements that imply a lack of wings: Morgoth was unable to develop winged creatures prior to the winged dragons, and as Balrogs existed long before the dragons this would argue against wings. Balrogs also do alot of falling rather than flying. And the differences in how Tolkein depicts the movement of Balrogs compared to how the depictions of the movement of other creatures that are known to fly (the description of Smaug in flight for example)


in short, there's a lot of contradictory information about them

Solo
2007-12-04, 02:14 AM
Maybe they're different subtypes of Balor?

herrhauptmann
2007-12-04, 02:18 AM
[QUOTE=Skjaldbakka;3610634]I didn't see any offenders on this point in this thread. Which isn't about pet peeves. Also, depending on the value of a, 6a and 6aa can be in between 6 and 7.

Nope, haven't seen it in this thread. It's just a common pet peeve. Besides, even if 6a and 6aa were to go between 6 ad 7, we ended up with 2 sevens because of a continuity issue. 4,5,6,7,6a,6aa,7... Hence the math class remark.
Alright enough of me in this, back to naming things that cause huge debates. I'll post again here if I think of another I like.

Jerthanis
2007-12-04, 02:24 AM
I don't care whether Balrogs do or don't have wings, but I do know Balors do, so that's all I need to know.

11.) A good DM can fix X where X is anything ever

12.) Anything about 2nd, 1st or 4th edition.

Feralgeist
2007-12-04, 02:31 AM
balrogs could just be a generalization, like tanar'ri, or baatezu, or....maybe the one gandalf faced had evolved, seeing as im pretty sure he was after dragons, so maybe it got magically induced wingdom

Nebo_
2007-12-04, 02:36 AM
13) Vs. Threads.

Animefunkmaster
2007-12-04, 02:36 AM
14) Psionics are broken.

15) Although covered by the stormwind fallacy, now updated since it got pruned:here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=11990222&postcount=2). Anything with Roleplayers Vs Rollplayers

deadseashoals
2007-12-04, 02:57 AM
16) Anything about what wizards are or aren't capable of doing.

Funkyodor
2007-12-04, 03:43 AM
Maybe the Balrogs wings are there just for show. Like, "Yo, Gandalf! Check out my Dope *** Wings! Aren't they just Pimpin'! Wait, get away from me with that glowing lightning ****!"

SoD
2007-12-04, 06:54 AM
17) Miko. She's worth mentioning twice, or better off not mentioning, depending on who you ask.

And yeah, I think it may belong in SMBG.

18) Monks. See reasoning for 17.

snoopy13a
2007-12-04, 07:05 AM
Other statements that imply a lack of wings: Morgoth was unable to develop winged creatures prior to the winged dragons, and as Balrogs existed long before the dragons this would argue against wings. Balrogs also do alot of falling rather than flying.



Aren't Balrogs evil Maiar that were created by Illuvatar and simply tempted and corrupted by Morgoth?

Not that I'm taking a side in this debate, I'll leave Balrog's wings (or lack thereof) up to personal interpretation.

skyclad
2007-12-04, 07:17 AM
Aren't Balrogs evil Maiar that were created by Illuvatar and simply tempted and corrupted by Morgoth?

Not that I'm taking a side in this debate, I'll leave Balrog's wings (or lack thereof) up to personal interpretation.

Morgoth gave them their "balrog" forms like he made other maia into dragons and stuff.
And its clear that they cant fly for a lot of reasons. We havent been told one way or another if they have wings or not so that is up for debate but it's pretty clear they cant fly with them.

AKA_Bait
2007-12-04, 07:29 AM
19. I have a player who is a jerk/twit

20. I have a DM who is a jerk/twit

21. Last session, in the game you aren't playing, starring the characters you don't know or care about, I did something COOL.

Rasilak
2007-12-04, 09:33 AM
21. Last session, in the game you aren't playing, starring the characters you don't know or care about, I did something COOL.
This one 's probably just flamebait. I wouldn't call the bashing following posts like this "discussion".

22. Anything about lists/rankings

Sleet
2007-12-04, 09:47 AM
23. The simple use of the term rollplaying. Ick.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-12-04, 09:52 AM
24 Help with "X"!


Guaranteed to spark a debate, good example is Army of commoners.

AKA_Bait
2007-12-04, 09:58 AM
This one 's probably just flamebait. I wouldn't call the bashing following posts like this "discussion".


I'm not sure if you are saying a) #21 I posted is flamebait or b) posts that adhere to the description of a thread given in #21 are flamebait.

If a, possibly. This is a list thread so I don't really see a need to debate it or engage in a flamewar over it. These posts do happen though, and somewhat frequently.

If b, I wouldn't say flaming or discussion tend to follow these kind of posts all or most of the time. What seems to be more common is that a parade of people then tell their 'I did something remotely similar and really COOL story' with little to no back and forth about what anyone else posted. Occasionally there is an exception to this where someone points out that the 'cool' thing done was actually against the rules.

25. MT's don't suck!

Doresain
2007-12-04, 11:12 AM
Balrog isn't a d20 monster, who cares?

balrog=balor

duh

Lord Tataraus
2007-12-04, 11:20 AM
Wow, this hasn't been said yet!

26) I hate ToB threads

StickMan
2007-12-04, 12:11 PM
27) Anything about Katanas.

OK this may have been mostly on the wizard board I'm not sure but I remember heated debate over how much damage Katanas should do and if they are like the best sword ever on this forum at one point. I don't think I was overly active at the time on ether forum so I can't remember exactly.

pendell
2007-12-04, 12:17 PM
Among other reasons:

They are explicitly described elsewhere without wings; this is primarily in content that was written before but published after fellowship.
Earlier drafts of this scene (the bridge scene) do no depict the Balrog as winged, and some claim that the differences in drafts show that the "wings" that appear in the final draft are metaphorical. In fact, in the earliest drafts of the scene the peril of Moria is not even a Balrog.
Other statements that imply a lack of wings: Morgoth was unable to develop winged creatures prior to the winged dragons, and as Balrogs existed long before the dragons this would argue against wings. Balrogs also do alot of falling rather than flying. And the differences in how Tolkein depicts the movement of Balrogs compared to how the depictions of the movement of other creatures that are known to fly (the description of Smaug in flight for example)


Also: IIR the text, the verbiage implies that the 'wings' are metaphorical shadows due to the lighting in the room as opposed to physical appendages. If it had wings, why couldn't it escape the crevice by flying? Are balrogs evolutionary mutants, having vestigial organs they can't use?

Not that it really matters. It's an imaginary world , after all. No reason we have to agree unless we adventure in it together.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell
2007-12-04, 12:20 PM
Aren't Balrogs evil Maiar that were created by Illuvatar and simply tempted and corrupted by Morgoth?



Yes.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Hyozo
2007-12-04, 12:38 PM
24 Help with "X"!


Guaranteed to spark a debate, good example is Army of commoners.

That wasn't a debate, that was a mutual agreement of how screwed Silverclawshift's group was which transitioned into a mutual agreement that their DM is perfect. The only debating was that some of the plans wouldn't work because the group had a paladin in it. Next time you use a topic as an example, READ IT FIRST!

Anyway, on topic:

28) "GITP GAMING FORUM RUINED D&D FOR ME" topics. It's like saying giving glasses to a shortsighted man makes his life meaningless. GITP gaming forum didn't make wizards perfect/monks suck, we just pointed it out.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-12-04, 12:44 PM
Can we just compromise and give Balrogs one wing. . .

. . . and a really big sword with monkey grip, and make them the last survivor of a dead world.

AKA_Bait
2007-12-04, 12:59 PM
Can we just compromise and give Balrogs one wing. . .

. . . and a really big sword with monkey grip, and make them the last survivor of a dead world.

Now that is uncalled for. :smalltongue:

pendell
2007-12-04, 12:59 PM
Well yes we COULD compromise and where's the fun in that? It's not like we have actual lives or something. Why that'd be almost as bad as if the other side were to give up and say 'ya know, you're right" ! There would be no contention! There would be no spark. There would just be this dreary conformity until we start harvesting kidneys out of sheer boredom.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-12-04, 01:07 PM
Now that is uncalled for. :smalltongue:

:amused: True

And harvesting kidneys can be fun and profitable.

29) Book X is the best/worst book WotC ever put out, and totally makes/breaks the game.

Doresain
2007-12-04, 09:18 PM
...we start harvesting kidneys out of sheer boredom...

and whats wrong with that? harvesting human organs is quite profitable

purplearcanist
2007-12-04, 09:22 PM
30) wizards can beat ANYTHING

streakster
2007-12-04, 11:26 PM
31. Warlocks are over/underpowered, completely overshadow/undershine the rest of the party, and must be nerfed/boosted at once.

32. Warlocks are great characters, perfectly balanced.

Fiery Diamond
2007-12-05, 03:15 AM
33. [fill in the blank] fix

-Fiery Diamond