Hexadin with INSANE stats! Help?

[UnoriginalGamer]

Good Afternoon to all you lovely people!

I've just began a new campaign and rolled some nutty stats. I was already wanting to go Paladin beforehand and now I'm even more so wanting to dive down into it.

I have a basic character idea in mind already but am trying to see any places I may be able to improve or adjust! Starting at level 5!

Some small sticking points:

Character must be a Dwarf (Using Custom Lineage as a substitute for now)
Must be a Two-Handed weapon user
No super-busted combos. So no Devil's Sight + Darkness or the sort



So far the stats I rolled at session zero were, in no particular order: 16, 16, 15, 14, 17, 12. I've dumped my 14 to a 7 and am using it for intelligence. (I'd rather have at least one low stat for RP purposes so it went that way).

We also get a level 1 Feat (in addition to the one from Custom Lineage) and a starting Uncommon Magic Item.

So far the build I've put together was Custom Lineage +2 CHA/Fey Touched/Darkvision.
Starting Feat - GWM
Uncommon Magic Item - Adamantine Full Plate

Stats: 15/12/16/7/16/20
2 Paladin/3 Hexblade

The weird split early to allow for 2-handed weapons on Hexblade.

Are there any more interesting magic weapons suggested or builds I should be looking to aim for down the line?

[solidork]

Why do you want to go Hexblade? Is it important to your character concept, or do you just think it's more effective? You rolled high enough stats that the usual reasons people suggest this multiclass don't really apply.

If you want to be a Paladin and swing a big weapon around, Paladin 5 is going to be leaps and bounds better than a 2/3 Split. 2 attacks, an extra ASI, more spell slots, a paladin subclass - it's not even a little close if you're interested in the Paladin class fantasy.

If you're excited about playing someone that has a pact and want that to be part of your story, then Hexblade makes sense.

[Mastikator]

Beeline for paladin 6 for the aura, a +5 to all saves is insane. Then rest hexblade. With 20 charisma and Improved Pact Weapon you don't ever have to think about magic weapons.

Personally I'd grab something else for your uncommon magic item, like winged boots or cloak of protection.

I'd also take defense fighting style. If your 1st level is paladin then chainmail is starting equipment, and eventually you'll be able to buy better armor.

[UnoriginalGamer]

Why do you want to go Hexblade? Is it important to your character concept, or do you just think it's more effective? You rolled high enough stats that the usual reasons people suggest this multiclass don't really apply.


Honestly, my thought was being able to move the need for stats just down the Charisma would be worth it? Plus I've just heard a lot about Hexblade + Paladin being "the thing". I've been a DM for a while and never had a paladin at my tables or gotten to play one myself, so it's a bit of a newer class to me tbh in that way.

The original concept was actually pure paladin with conquest, purely because I have party members that focus on CC and making prone. So the 0 speed fear would be strong, but I honestly thought that was TOO strong. I'm also avoiding Elven Accuracy for that reason (plus RP reasons of having played session 1 already and enjoyed the dwarf I came up with on the spot. I was added SUPER last minute).

[RogueJK]

Beeline for paladin 6 for the aura, a +5 to all saves is insane. Then rest hexblade.

Definitely. Get your Extra Attack and Paladin Aura online ASAP. You have the stats to spare for a high STR, so you don't need to go Hexblade right off the bat.

Something like:
Paladin 6 -> Hexblade X
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 16
CHA 15+2
ASIs: Fey Touched (18 CHA) and Crusher (18 STR) at 1, then Great Weapon Master at Paladin 4, then 20 CHA at Hexblade 4, then 18 CON or Inspiring Leader at Hexblade 8.
Use a Maul and Heavy Armor, only switching to using CHA to attack when you eventually hit 20 CHA at Hexblade 4 (Character Level 10).

[llama-hedge]

Seconding that multiclassing Hexblade is unnecessary. If you must multiclass, why not pick something weird that you wouldn't normally have the stats to support?

Being able to key everything off charisma is really good in a vacuum, but all your stats are good anyway so the benefit is much lower. In the meantime, you're still delaying extra attack and the base class aura. The conquest paladin aura is also strong, but requires more effort to get use out of. It's fun without being broken, and especially potent against flying enemies, since setting their flight speed to 0 causes them to fall. I knocked a roc out of the sky that way once.

[UnoriginalGamer]

It's fun without being broken, and especially potent against flying enemies, since setting their flight speed to 0 causes them to fall. I knocked a roc out of the sky that way once.

Honestly. That makes me tempted go back to conquest LOL. I'm currently leaned towards Vengeance but my DM is encouraging me to "Go Ham" and "Join the Dark Side" when it comes to making a slightly more optimized character. A lot of the above restrictions aren't placed by him, but rather myself trying to not make something game breaking.

[Laserlight]

No super-busted combos. So no Devil's Sight + Darkness or the sort


Whether that's broken or not depends on your typical fights.
If you can usually cast before the fight starts, or if you're holding a bottleneck by yourself, or if it's a long fight, then this combo can be a great deal of fun. But when I ran a darklock five years ago, we typically had three round fights, and it just wasn't effective to waste the first round casting Darkness.

[RogueJK]

If you want a Paladin/Warlock combination that works very well, check out a Conquest Paladin with a single level of Undead Warlock.

You don't need Hexblade's CHA to attack. Undead instead gets you a reliable source of a Fear effect to combo with your Conquest Paladin aura, and it scales with Proficiency, not Warlock levels.

Good points to take the Undead Warlock dip are after Paladin 2 (to get Smite online), after Paladin 6 (to get Extra Attack and Protection Aura online), after Paladin 7 (to get Conquest Aura online), or after Paladin 9 (to get the AOE Fear spell online).

Conquest Paladin 2 or 6 or 7 or 9 -> Undead Warlock 1 -> Paladin X
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 16
CHA 15+2
ASIs: Fey Touched (18 CHA) and Crusher (18 STR) at 1, then Great Weapon Master at Paladin 4, then 20 CHA at Paladin 8, then 20 STR at Paladin 12.
Use a Maul and Heavy Armor.


You could also stop at Conquest Paladin 7 or 9, and go straight Undead Warlock from there, if you want to eventually be even more of a spellcaster and get access to Warlock Invocations. Plus, you're not locked into Pact of the Blade since you already have Extra Attack from Paladin, so you could do Chain or Tome instead to even further expand your player options. If you do that, go with a Greataxe instead of a Maul, since Mauls/Greatswords don't play nice with your Undead Warlock 6 ability to add an additional damage dice (it'd only be adding another +1d6 instead of +1d12).

[UnoriginalGamer]

If you want a Paladin/Warlock combination that works very well, check out a Conquest Paladin with a single level of Undead Warlock.


I had to google to realized Undead Warlock was a thing. I don't have that book on dndbeyond. That looks kinda interesting and fun with Conquest. I may mix that up with the earlier suggestion to use a Maul + Crusher.

Edit: I forgot the Maul part required the Hexblade LOL.

[sithlordnergal]

Honestly, Hexblade is generally used to deal with the Paladin's MADness. You rolled high enough that you don't really have to worry about that. Don't get me wrong, Hexblade will always be handy because you have Hexblade's Curse and Hex to add some extra damage to your hits, but you don't really need it.

That said, I would wait till level 6 before you multiclass. Extra Attack and the aura are both extremely powerful and useful abilities to have. And since you have the stats to go Strength and Charisma, you don't have to worry about the Charisma for everything as much. I will warn you, that most DMs do consider Hexblade/Paladin to be busted on its own...though I personally do not.

As for suggested builds...I do have one in particular that I enjoy: Paladin/Sorcerer

Specifically, I enjoy Ancient Paladin/Wild Magic Sorcerer

[RogueJK]

Edit: I forgot the Maul part required the Hexblade LOL.

No it doesn't. You're getting Maul proficiency from Paladin, and using STR to attack.

[UnoriginalGamer]

No it doesn't. You're getting Maul proficiency from Paladin, and using STR to attack.

My mistake. I'm a bit braindead today ^^;

It's also worth noting from the edit you made above. I get 2 feats level 1 (Custom Lineage and Start with a Level 1 Feat) so I could probably do both the Crusher and Fey Touched!

[UnoriginalGamer]

If you want a Paladin/Warlock combination that works very well, check out a Conquest Paladin with a single level of Undead Warlock.

You don't need Hexblade's CHA to attack. Undead instead gets you a reliable source of a Fear effect to combo with your Conquest Paladin aura, and it scales with Proficiency, not Warlock levels.

Good points to take the Undead Warlock dip are after Paladin 2 (to get Smite online), after Paladin 6 (to get Extra Attack and Protection Aura online), after Paladin 7 (to get Conquest Aura online), or after Paladin 9 (to get the AOE Fear spell online).

Conquest Paladin 2 or 6 or 7 or 9 -> Undead Warlock 1 -> Paladin X
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 15
CHA 16+2
ASIs: Fey Touched (19 CHA) and Crusher (18 STR) at 1, then Great Weapon Master at Paladin 4, then 16 WIS and 20 CHA at Paladin 8, then 20 STR at Paladin 12.
Use a Maul and Heavy Armor.


You could also stop at Conquest Paladin 7 or 9, and go straight Undead Warlock from there, if you want to eventually be even more of a spellcaster and get access to Warlock Invocations. Plus, you're not locked into Pact of the Blade since you already have Extra Attack from Paladin, so you could do Chain or Tome instead to even further expand your player options. If you do that, go with a Greataxe instead of a Maul, since Mauls/Greatswords don't play nice with your Undead Warlock 6 ability to add an additional damage dice (it'd only be adding another +1d6 instead of +1d12).

I honestly appreciate this constant update/tweaking so much. This build sounds pretty awesome and is what I'm leaning towards right now! I don't actually know my patron/god yet due to the weirdness of the setting (and the character itself doesn't know even once I do OOC) but this lets me start to put that together too!

[RogueJK]

I tweaked it again after that quote, to swap to 16 WIS and 18 CHA at start. :smallwink:

[UnoriginalGamer]

I tweaked it again after that quote, to swap to 16 WIS and 18 CHA at start. :smallwink:

Caught that~ Thanks!

Thoughts on starting Uncommon Item or Fighting Style? I see the call for Defense up above but I'm wondering since Maul uses 2d6 if it's worth more given the extra damage die to do GWF

[solidork]

Honestly, my thought was being able to move the need for stats just down the Charisma would be worth it? Plus I've just heard a lot about Hexblade + Paladin being "the thing". I've been a DM for a while and never had a paladin at my tables or gotten to play one myself, so it's a bit of a newer class to me tbh in that way.

I'd definitely start out with Paladin 5 then. I'd endorse RogueJK's build, especially if the Undead thing interests you - if you talk with your GM about your interest in taking that multiclass you two can work out the kind of patron you'd like and then you can encounter them naturally in play. I personally find that kind of thing very satisfying.

[UnoriginalGamer]

if you talk with your GM about your interest in taking that multiclass you two can work out the kind of patron you'd like and then you can encounter them naturally in play. I personally find that kind of thing very satisfying.

Yessssss this is so good. The basic concept was [Character] is a Veteran who was blessed with the powers of a paladin during a great conflict... and grew addicted to the rush of using them. So now he searches out battle and conflict, chasing the high of being able to flex this divine gift. He doesn't know who or what gave it to him... and so far he doesn't care.

(Tho session 0 did have my character steaming off dark shadows so... The other PCs have already brought up the concern and may end up chasing down what's giving him this eventually!)

OOC I'm working with GM to figure that out now cause I'm gonna add clues in the form of "tattoos" that were left on him and it'll help my smiting descriptions!

[solidork]

Caught that~ Thanks!

Thoughts on starting Uncommon Item or Fighting Style? I see the call for Defense up above but I'm wondering since Maul uses 2d6 if it's worth more given the extra damage die to do GWF

I took Amulet of the Devout +1 on my Glory Paladin and I've really been liking it. It lets you do your cool Paladin thing more often and in a pinch is an extra spell slot thanks to Harness Divine power. Conquest is more concerned with their spell save DC than your average paladin, so that's nice as well. It technically doesn't make it harder to resist your channel divinity since it only affects spells, but your GM might be generous and let you apply the bonus.

If you want to go all in on being scary, Pipes of Haunting seem pretty strong though I have not seen them in play. Be sure to pick up the instrument proficiency with your background if you go with that.

[RogueJK]

Thoughts on starting Uncommon Item or Fighting Style? I see the call for Defense up above but I'm wondering since Maul uses 2d6 if it's worth more given the extra damage die to do GWF

It depends on when you're going to be taking the Undead Warlock dip.

You have a high STR and CHA, but you need a decent ranged option that's better than simply hurling javelins at 30'. A CHA-based ranged cantrip is a good solution.

If you plan to take the Undead Warlock dip after you hit Paladin 2, you can just grab Eldritch Blast for your ranged option there. In that case, I'd go with Great Weapon Fighting style at Paladin 2.

But if you're going to wait until later in your Paladin career to take your Warlock dip, I'd actually go with the Blessed Warrior fighting style at Paladin 2, picking up the Guidance and Toll the Dead cantrips. This works especially well if you're going to go Conquest Paladin 6 or 7 -> Undead Warlock 1 -> Conquest Paladin X, because the Martial Versatility feature lets you swap fighting styles at any level where you gain an ASI. So you can have Toll the Dead to use as your ranged option from Paladin 2-6 or 2-7, then grab Eldritch Blast at Paladin 6 or 7/Warlock 1, and then when you reach Paladin 8 you gain an ASI and can swap Blessed Warrior over to Great Weapon style at that point.

You'll want to pick up Eldritch Blast eventually anyway, not only because it's better and longer ranged than Toll the Dead, but also because it can be used with your Form of Dread to inflict fear since it's an attack. (Whereas Toll the Dead is not an attack; all of the Cleric damage cantrips are save cantrips.)


As for magic item, I definitely agree with solidork's recommendation of an Amulet of the Devout +1. The additional daily Channel Divinity use and +1 to your spell attacks/saves is quite handy, especially on more caster-oriented Paladins like Conquest. You'll be making good use of spells like Wrathful Smite, Spiritual Weapon, and Fear, so that +1 to your spell saves/attacks will come in handy. And it gives you +1 to your ranged cantrip save/attack too. (Since it doesn't specify just Cleric/Paladin spells, it will also apply to Eldritch Blast whenever you end up picking that up.)

Pipes of Hanting, while thematically appropriate, suffer from a low, fixed save DC, and also require a Performance check anytime you try to use them, so you can end up wasting Actions if you flub your Performance check. Besides, between your Conquering Presence Channel Divinity, your Form of Dread, the 3rd level Fear spell, the 1st level Wrathful Smite spell, and access to the 1st level Cause Fear spell on the Warlock list, you'll already have a ton of ways to inflict the Frightened condition.

(Just keep in mind that there's a not-insignificant number of enemies that are immune to Fear effects...)

[Frogreaver]

Good Afternoon to all you lovely people!

I've just began a new campaign and rolled some nutty stats. I was already wanting to go Paladin beforehand and now I'm even more so wanting to dive down into it.

I have a basic character idea in mind already but am trying to see any places I may be able to improve or adjust! Starting at level 5!

Some small sticking points:

Character must be a Dwarf (Using Custom Lineage as a substitute for now)
Must be a Two-Handed weapon user
No super-busted combos. So no Devil's Sight + Darkness or the sort



So far the stats I rolled at session zero were, in no particular order: 16, 16, 15, 14, 17, 12. I've dumped my 14 to a 7 and am using it for intelligence. (I'd rather have at least one low stat for RP purposes so it went that way).

We also get a level 1 Feat (in addition to the one from Custom Lineage) and a starting Uncommon Magic Item.

So far the build I've put together was Custom Lineage +2 CHA/Fey Touched/Darkvision.
Starting Feat - GWM
Uncommon Magic Item - Adamantine Full Plate

Stats: 15/12/16/7/16/20
2 Paladin/3 Hexblade

The weird split early to allow for 2-handed weapons on Hexblade.

Are there any more interesting magic weapons suggested or builds I should be looking to aim for down the line?

I think I would avoid the hexblade dip altogether. I would just balance my starting stats around strength and cha. Maybe do a 18/12/15/7/16/18. 15 con sets you up nicely for resilient con at some point which is a great addition to a paladin.

I wouldn't use GWM on a paladin without a huge accuracy boost. Instead, I would recommend Polearm Master. I probably would never consider GWM for this character.

Paladin subclass is tough, given your dwarf, glory seems fitting to me. Temp Hp when divine smiting, extra speed, a solid ranged spell in guiding bolt for when you cannot close the distance and eventually Haste. Not the best subclass ever, but really solid and thematic for a dwarf IMO.

[Stattick]

As others have said, Hex is great for Pally's, to reduce MAD. You rolled well enough to not have to worry about that. Instead, I'd multiclass into something that compliments and makes Paladin more powerful.

I'd built to Str & Chr to begin with, and forego Hexblade altogether. Go to 6th in Pally.

7th+, I'd go Divine Sorcerer. It also uses Chr for spells. You'll get a bunch of slots from Sorc, to use for smites. You can select spells from both the sorcerer and cleric lists (cleric spells, but they're sorcerer spells for you, so they use Chr). Spell and slot progression is much better as a Sorc than as a Pally.

Your HP will be lower than a typical Pally if you multi deeply into Sorc, as I suggested. Your idea of selecting magic plate as your starting armor is a great offset. Go for Plate +1. Fight sword & board, for the AC bump a shield brings. With the extra slots you'll have, you don't have to worry so much about doing big damage, but more about being a bit fragile. Big AC will help you a lot. When you start getting Sorc spells, you'll definitely want Shield and Absorb Elements too. Wade into combat slinging a warhammer, using Spiritual Weapon to swing a second warhammer around from over there with your bonus action, Spiritual Guardians (with warhammers) smacking the crap out of everything around you that you don't like, and then using Divine Smite left and right when you hit so you can kill your enemies faster. And every once in a while, when you really need to, you throw out a fireball.

Hey, take the Crusher feat. Moving people around on the battlefield is USEFUL.

[CTurbo]

I would also avoid the Warlock dip and take this chance to play a straight classed Paladin. With stats like that, you could easily start with 18 Str and 18 Cha from the start.

I'd take the Blessed Warrior Fighting style for 2 Cleric cantrips. I'd probably go Guidance and Toll the Dead, but you could just take Toll the Dead and Sacred Flame if you want 2 different ranged options that target 2 different saves.

I also highly recommend Polearm Master instead of Great Weapon Master. I'd take PAM at level 4. You get 2 free starting feats? hmm...

Fey Touched as already mentioned is great and you could put the 17 in Cha and round that out to 18 to start.

Heavy Armor Master is a solid starting feat and you could put the 17 in Str and round that out to 18 instead.

Res(Con) is always great and could round that 15 Con up to 16.

If you can take it, the UA skill feat Menacing is really good on Conquest Paladins. Gives you +1 Cha, Expertise in Intimidation, and lets you sub 1 attack to strike fear into 1 enemy until the end of your next turn.

I never heard of the Amulet of the Devout +1 but it sounds AMAZING and should make that an easy choice.


Seriously though, the 5e Paladin is a beast of a class and you get goodies at basically every level from 2-20.

If the Cleric ranged cantrips aren't good enough for you, you could get Eldritch Blast and Hex from Magic Initiate and then eventually take Eldritch Adept for Agonizing blast while still staying full Paladin.

[Tes]

Minor food for thought and highly depends on the table, but there are some downsides when going Hexblade, especially if you don't have to deal with MADness and have 2 free Feats lvl 1.
A lot of Brawler creatures will be a lot better than you at contesting Athletics and might end up grappling/shoving to deal with your 20+ AC and low Athletic score.

Important bit about Crusher, Piercer etc - Check with your DM if you can fight loot that works with your Feats or if your build would be better off being weapon agnostic. Alternatively ask if he'll let you switch between those Feats to match the weapon type you currently have access to. To make an example - if you start out with Crusher and end up finding a by the book Flametongue (which technically is a sword by default). Or if he'll let you use the Feat on any weapon type.

With these stats I'D either go straight Paladin and attack with STR to leverage any Magic Weapon down the line instead of being a sad 2/3 split with a +1 Pact weapon. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, a Moontouched Greatsword would still outscale the Warlock Multiclass level 1-7 no problem. The thing about Paladin is that it's very nice to just stick with it even past 6. 7 is usually a pretty strong subclass Aura (At least in case of Conquest or Ancients), 8 is another ASI, 9 is 3rd level Paladin Spells, 10th is a bit situational with Aura of Courage, 11 is IDS which is probably the Paladin capstone for most campaigns.
What you do get out of Hexblade is something extra to do with your Bonus Action and access to Shield spell.

With those stats, 2 Feats and free Magic Item, I'd alternatively look at a Sorcerer dip to keep spell progression going and the occasional quickened or twinned Spell. Booming Blade as a Bonus Action for damage, Blade Ward as a defensive option. I like the impact good old Bless has even on high levels to bolster saves and to Hit rolls, especially if you don't lose your action and can still attack with GWM the same turn.
If you go Divine Soul you have Favored by the Gods to boost your Saving Throws even further once per Short Rest (imo this ends up outclassing any Warlock benefits by a mile).
One more thing about low ressource use for Concentration with Favored by the Gods and Pally Aura would be that we can skip Warcaster and take Resilience Con as early lvl1. Wielding a 2 Hander we have the free hand to cast, rerolls are not as important for as since we can buff the result on a fail (and probably also have a Bless to add even more). What we're definitely missing out on is the Booming Bleed AOO. Using that 15 in Con and making it a 16 straight away is another early benefit.
Depending on our Paladin Subclass we can still take Warcaster at 8 or 12 end up with insanely reliable Concentration.

[UnoriginalGamer]

I took myself to an early sleep last night but I appreciate all the suggestions!

I hadn't considered Sorcerer. I'm not fully sure if it's something I want to pursue but it could be interesting to theory-craft around. The Crusher build with an Undead dip is my current favorite tho! I'm also seeing a ton of love for the Amulet of the Devout which surprises me. I'll pick it up but I was leaning towards those pipes! Low consistent DC is what's moving me away from it tho.

Maybe I'll just take metamagic adept at some point to bring some interest? I could see not going to 20 STR or 20 CHA(?).

[solidork]

At level 5, the fixed DC on Pipes of Haunting will actually be around the same as most full caster's save DC. It will eventually fall off though, and the point about picking something that will help you against fear immune things is worth considering.

Amulet of the Devout also gives you an additional fear, and continues to get better and better as you level.

Something to consider is how each of them work aesthetically and narratively - do you see your character as someone who would play an instrument? Does your Conquering Presence have a particularly cool visualization that you want so show off more? Is your character religious enough that it makes sense to have a magical holy symbol? Do you have any particularly exciting ideas about how you would have acquired either of the items?

[UnoriginalGamer]

Something to consider is how each of them work aesthetically and narratively - do you see your character as someone who would play an instrument? ... Is your character religious enough that it makes sense to have a magical holy symbol? Do you have any particularly exciting ideas about how you would have acquired either of the items?

Between the two the Pipes made more sense aesthetically and could give another depth to him. Given that the character doesn't know what god or patron or whatever is granting him this power. But I think I could make the magical holy symbol work as a branded tattoo assuming my DM is fine with that or something that he picked up shortly after being "blessed".

[UnoriginalGamer]

I also highly recommend Polearm Master instead of Great Weapon Master. I'd take PAM at level 4. You get 2 free starting feats? hmm...


So this may be a direction I start looking in! My DM is providing us all one special "setting-specific" homebrew item that he's created (I'll see the list hopefully today?).

Amongst those he mentioned a Two-Handed Bludgeoning Weapon with Reach being an option. So I may adjust my feats slightly to focus on getting to 20 STR, Getting PAM, Sentinel, Crusher, and GWM. Although at this point I start to feel the pain from Paladin's MAD requirement since I won't have much time to pump into my stats (and losing Fey Touched at first level means my Charisma will be stuck at either 16 or so...)

I'm considering going

STR 17 + 2
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 15
CHA 16

Or swapping WIS and CON here with plans to get Resilient (Con) if I can find a way to fit it?

This does suffer from lowering my Spellcasting Modifier to +3, but with Amulet of the Devout I do go back up to +4 with that bonus? So maybe???

I thought this build was complete tbh with the ideas from RogueJK and the idea of probably Undead Warlock (or Divine Soul Sorc) but having something with Reach that would synergize with Crusher seems pretty strong on it's own... It's worth noting he said that all these special weapons will have "Equipment Slots" which I don't know the exact details of but seems to mean I'll be able to upgrade/adjust the weapon as we continue adventuring.

[solidork]

Are you even sure you'll be able to use PAM with this reach bludgeoning weapon? It specifies what weapons you can use with it, but your GM might make an exception. Reach is extra powerful on Conquest Paladin once you get to 7, since you'll be able to freeze enemies and attack from out of their range.

PAM is good, but a little less good than normal since you've got access to a bonus action attack from Spiritual Weapon.

Sentinel is good, but a little less good than normal since you've already got the ability to lock down people with your subclass abilities. Unless you have another character in your party that is going to be spending all of their time in melee, I would give Sentinel a pass.

Conquest Paladin values their charisma more than any other Paladin subclass, since you're regularly going to be forcing saves or making attacks with it. The turns you spend using your channel divinity, or casting Command/Hold Person/Fear are turns where your weapon focused feats aren't doing much for you.

I'd personally start with the suggested 18 in both Str and Charisma and one of either Great Weapon Master or (if you can use it with your custom weapon) PAM, and then wait until you hit 8 to decide on what to take then. You'll have a better idea of what will be more useful once you've got a lot of experience with your party and the kinds of enemies you're facing.

[UnoriginalGamer]

Yeah I realized PAM would be an issue too. Thankfully my DM specified on the weapon it can be used with PAM but it's also effectively a +1 Warhammer with Reach. So it doesn't actually work for GWM.

I also realized I could have dropped my character sheet this whole time. Currently, it shows the changes I made to add Sentinel and get to 20 Strength but I'll be likely changing back to 18 both if it's truly that important!

https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/95424189

It's also worth noting that for other party members I have a Melee Grappler, Rogue (tho they seem to be up in the air if it's range or melee), and a Bard (Support-style)

[CTurbo]

I'd skip GWM anyway. PAM + Sentinel is strong enough. Especially if/when you get to Pally 11 and can add an extra d8 to every hit.

[Stattick]

It's also worth noting that for other party members I have a Melee Grappler, Rogue (tho they seem to be up in the air if it's range or melee), and a Bard (Support-style)

So, Bard can heal & counterspell. Who's throwing fireball & other aoe's?

[RogueJK]

So, Bard can heal & counterspell. Who's throwing fireball & other aoe's?

Even a support-oriented Bard can [and should] have some AoE Bard spells on hand, like Shatter, Hypnotic Pattern, Plant Growth, Slow, and/or Synaptic Static. And a Lore Bard in particular can grab something like Fireball or Web in addition to Counterspell at Level 6. Or any Bard could grab a higher level AoE using one of their Magical Secrets at 10, like Destructive Wave or Cone of Cold, although by that point all Bards already have access to Synaptic Static which is one of the best AoEs in the game anyway.


The Conquest Paladin has a number of AoE fear effect spells/abilities too, like Fear and Conquering Presence.

[UnoriginalGamer]

Yeah, there is a slight lack of AOE I think. We did just get told that our Bard is changing to a druid which may allow for some more offensive or control AOE in addition to the support they we're gonna give.

I'm surprised to hear the GWM isn't what I'd want to rush down with my fear already setting their speed to 0 tho. I guess it's more flexible cause they don't need to be feared to have movement of 0 but still!

(I've also been invited to another game with a number of the same players so my focus has been split. Autognome Artificer for that one in Spelljammer!)

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'll agree with not needing to multi class this at all. Conquest Paly keeps building steadily until 10th level when you can cast a Fear Spell that avoids friendly fire (if allies are within 10') and get the Aura of Conquest ability. Then at 11th you get improved Divine Smite. This means right away you've got extra attack, so you're off and rolling; 1 level later your saves go through the roof. Delaying any of this has a cost.

As for feats I tend to try and get Fey Touched on my 1/3 and 1/2 casters as 2 extra slots represents a big bump; given that one of those is Misty step and it's a 1/2 feat is just too good to pass up.

Do you need a better ranged attack? I'm going to say that's table dependent, as there have been a number of threads on here with differing opinions related to Palys. My experience would say it's not necessary because A] You've always got the option of casting a spell on round 1 and closing (Bless is default), and B] You've got a Magical Steed (which you will have at 5th level) to help you close distance. At my table Palys end up throwing javelins or casting cantrips very infrequently, so investing in levels or feats for a minor damage bump occasionally would have limited value. I'd say don't bother initially, and if you find yourself chucking javelins a lot consider it after 6th level.

As for GWM it's great if you or someone else has a way of improving accuracy; Bless can be as good as or better than advantage depending on the number required to hit, by the way. If ACs tend to be high and you/ your party do nothing to improve accuracy the power attack part is of limited value.

Good luck

[UnoriginalGamer]

Honestly wondering if moving towards mountain dwarf makes sense for the extra stat boost. Puts me at 20 strength level 4 (Crusher level 4 feat) and 18 Charisma level 1 (Fey-Touched free level 1 feat).

I lose PAM which feels fine(?) I can always go for it after I have a 20 in both Strength and Charisma? Or even go for GWM at that point since it'll be level 12?