Inlindl School: A Mini-Guide

[Saintheart]

Inlindl School: A Mini-Guide


Before my body I throw my warlike shield
Lay on, MacDuff
And damned be him that first cries ‘Hold, enough!’*
-- Macbeth, Act V, Scene 8

Introduction
Inlindl School is a feat from Drow of the Underdark. Most people overlook it. What makes the feat interesting is that you “sacrifice your shield bonus to AC in exchange for a bonus on melee attack rolls, equal to one half that bonus.” The decision is made at the start of your turn and applies to all (melee) attack rolls for the whole turn.

More attack bonus is always interesting to Power Attack, two-weapon fighting, natural or unarmed attacks, and critical hit builds. One way or another, if you want to subtract hitpoints, you have to get over the enemy’s AC. Attack bonus helps with that. But Inlindl School has two frustrating limiters:

(1) It subtracts your full shield bonus but only gives you half the bonus back for attacks.
(2) The bonus to attacks only applies to ‘light weapons (or other weapons to which Weapon Finesse applies)’.

There are two other limitations from other rules that also impact on this:

(1) Power Attack does nothing for the damage of a light weapon, but it sure nerfs the attack roll.
(2) If you carry a shield while using Weapon Finesse, the shield’s Armor Check Penalty (ACP) applies to your attack rolls.

But there is still some decent value to be extracted from Inlindl School. Like Power Attack, it doesn’t have any activation time and is just selected at the start of a turn. And as with a lot of things in third edition, it gets much more interesting once you add magic to the mix.

However, there are a few things to be said upfront about realistically using the feat:



Don’t throw an entire build at getting the feat. Its best use is as an adjunct to a primary strategy for dealing damage – Power Attack, attack spam, critical hits, anything where you’d benefit from a higher attack roll.


The feat is stronger at lower levels because a +1 or +2 makes more of a difference there, and mundane shield bonuses tend to top out around +4. It needs a bit more work to stay relevant further up, but it remains useful mainly because it helps Power Attack and attack spam strategies, which get relevant from level 6 upward.


You’re never getting gamebreaking numbers out of it – unless you go with a couple of borderline-ish builds or strategies set out below. These depend heavily on magic for the most part.


Its best synergy is probably on gishes. You’re going to be hearing about Abjurant Champion a lot, but you likely already have heard about the AbChamp if you’re a gish anyway.


If you don’t have magic, the ideal is to attack without using Weapon Finesse at all. This however means that you have at least one feat tax in your build, since Inlindl School’s prerequisites are Weapon Finesse and Combat Expertise. (Combat Expertise at least is a prerequisite for Improved Trip ... amongst other things.)



If you’re optimizing Inlindl School, there are four questions to answer:

(1) What weapons are light or can be used with Weapon Finesse;
(2) Where can you obtain a Shield Bonus to AC;
(3) How high can you push that one Shield Bonus to AC; and
(4) How low can you pull a shield’s Armor Check Penalty – or can you bypass it altogether.


(A footnote: Inlindl School can grant an indirect bonus to touch AC through its prerequisite, Combat Expertise. Shield bonuses to AC normally don’t count against touch or incorporeal attacks – but dodge bonuses do. Combat Expertise allows you to take -5 off your attack roll and turn it into a dodge bonus instead, which means your half your shield bonus can be applied via Inlindl School to touch AC in effect. It’s not a massive bonus, but if you didn’t have space for Shield Ward, it might be worth a thought.)

[Saintheart]

Lists
First, the all-important sets of lists for you to mine for your characters. We’ll talk about the practical issues further down.

Finesse-able Weapons
These lists draw from Thurbane’s “Weapon Finesse +” catalogue (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?599432-3-5-Weapon-Finesse).

- Any weapon categorized as light in its description or table entry, e.g. daggers, short swords.

- Natural Weapons and Unarmed Strikes are deemed light by the rules (and unlike most light weapons, they explicitly benefit from Power Attack, although not as much as one-handed or two-handed weapons.)

- The following one-handed or two-handed weapons are explicitly useable with Weapon Finesse:

-- Rapier (SRD) – Martial Weapon -- note it cannot benefit from x1.5 STR bonus to damage, explicitly. Quickblade Rapier (CAdv) – Exotic Weapon – is much the same.
-- Spiked Chain (SRD) – Exotic Weapon – has Reach, can trip, is two-handed.
-- Elven Courtblade (RoTW) – Exotic Weapon – two-handed, 1d10 damage dice, explicitly stacks STR and DEX to damage bonuses if used with Champion of Corellon Larethian.
-- Elven Thinblade (RoTW) – Exotic Weapon – one-handed, 1d8 damage dice but a better critical hit range than a longsword.
-- Lynxpaw (RoTW) – Exotic Weapon – 1d6/1d4 double weapon, can make trip attacks, gets +2 to disarm checks.
-- Blade Boot (FRCS) – Exotic Weapon – can be used as special monk weapon from outset.
-- Drow Scorpion Chain (SoX) – Exotic Weapon – Reach weapon, can trip, +2 to disarms. Hasn’t got the damage dice of the Spiked Chain, which it closely resembles.
-- Spinning Sword (SoS) – Exotic Weapon. Special monk weapon in some contexts, 1d6 damage dice.
-- Ribbonweave (RoE) – Exotic Weapon – 1d8 damage, one-handed weapon but can’t get x1.5 STR bonus. Easily concealed – takes a DC 18 Search to be revealed as a weapon.
-- Daishalar (Dragon 301) – Exotic Weapon, and one of the few double weapons on the list.
-- Rope Dart/Meteor Hammer (Dragon 319 p. 73) -- Exotic Weapon. Two-handed weapon, only does 1d4 damage, but is finessable, has a 15 foot reach and can explicitly be used against adjacent targets. The difference between the two comes down to the fact the Rope Dart does piercing damage while the Meteor Hammer does bludgeoning (and therefore can benefit from Mighty Wallop shenanigans.)
-- Whip (SRD) and Stingray Whip (Stormwrack) – Exotic Weapon.
-- Dragonsplit (MM 4) – Exotic Weapon, functions as light weapon for Weapon Finesse and Two Weapon Fighting specifically.
-- Kawanga (OA) – Exotic Weapon, useable as a double weapon or a Reach weapon. Can trip with it, +2 to disarm checks. Miserable 1d3/1d3 damage dice though.
-- Chain (OA) – Exotic Weapon.

- Feycraft template weapons (DMG 2 p. 274): Only one-handed or light weapons can be feycraft weapons. Two-handed feycraft weapons are not possible. It doesn’t take an exotic weapon proficiency to wield a feycraft weapon, which is one reason they’re outrageously useful here. Feycraft weapons have two uses in this space, one obvious, one less obvious, and one important drawback:


A feycraft weapon is a light weapon solely for the purposes of the Weapon Finesse feat. That is, it can be used freely with Weapon Finesse, and therefore, with Inlindl School. And because they’re light only for the purposes of Weapon Finesse, one-handed feycraft weapons can still be used with Power Attack. Which in turn means that most bladed or bludgeoning one-handed weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse, if they’re feycraft to start with. (Why was it worded this way? Probably to stop one-handed weapons being freely used in the off hand for Two-Weapon Fighting, since Weapon Finesse has nothing to do with TWF. Happily, though, they overlooked the other, more significant way that one-handed weapons can be used.)
A feycraft version of a weapon that was already light – e.g. a feycraft dagger – substitutes DEX for STR on attack rolls with it, “as if the wielder had Weapon Finesse”. Which means feycraft light weapons arguably get around Weapon Finesse’s requirement that a shield’s Armor Check Penalty applies to attack rolls with them.
Feycraft weapons have a damage dice one smaller than their ordinary versions. A feycraft short sword has a d4 damage dice, not a d6.

- Finesse weapon property: +3 equivalent, (ECS p.266): can only be applied to a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain, and allows you to use the weapon with finesse even if you lack the feat. Also gives +2 enhancement bonus to Dex.



- The following feats make certain weapons light:

-- Monkey Grip (CWar): Wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon, i.e. in one hand, and i.e.e. still useable with Weapon Finesse. Still take a -2 to the attack roll.
-- Graceful Edge (Dungeon #128): If you don’t wield a shield or weapon in the off hand, treat a one-handed slashing melee weapon as a light weapon. Also gain +1 to shield bonus while wielding that chosen weapon. This would have very limited applications unless the wielder had Exotic Weapon Proficiency in bastard sword and really wanted to use Weapon Finesse on it for some reason.



- The following class abilities are relevant for making Weapon Finesse more applicable:

-- Weapon Finesse (Ex) (Iaijutsu Master PrC level 1 ability, OA p.41): apply DEX to attack rolls “as if” Weapon Finesse applied, to a katana.
-- Slashing Blades (Dervish PrC level 1 ability, CWar p.25): treat “a scimitar” as a light weapon. Arguably, could extend to all "scimitars" (double scimitar, great scimitar etc.)
-- Balanced Blades (Ex) (Corsair PrC level 8 ability, Dragon 321 p.86): it allows the corsair to treat any one-handed weapon for which he has Weapon Focus as light, which therefore means Weapon Finesse applies to it. (Can only be unarmored or light armored).
-- Monkey King Staff (Ex) (Monkey Shen PrC level 3 ability, Dragon 319 p.72) allows you to use both ends of the quarterstaff with Weapon Finesse.


Things Granting Shield Bonus to AC
These are a list of sources of shield bonuses, as opposed to stuff that improves an existing shield bonus -- there’s some overlap. Shield bonuses from different sources generally do not stack, so picking up multiple feats that grant shield bonuses on their own may or may not fly. For more comments all things shields, don't forget Person_Man's guide (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?123630-3-X-Person-Man-s-Guide-to-Shields).



- We’re not going to list every shield in existence. The highest shield bonus given by a physical shield is the Tower Shield’s +4. However, it comes with a punishing -10 Armor Check Penalty (ACP). And not all classes automatically get proficiency with it.
- The next highest is the Extreme Steel/Wooden Shield (RoS) with its +3 shield bonus, but it requires its own exotic shield proficiency and has a -4 ACP.
- Rider’s Shield (RoS): grants +2 to AC of your mount and yourself, but takes its own exotic shield proficiency and still sweats you for a -2 ACP.

- The following weapons grant shield bonuses, usually a measly +1, and usually on conditions amounting to “no attacking with this weapon while you’re drawing a shield bonus from it”.
-- Dwarven Buckler-Axe (CWar)
-- Gnome Tortoise Blade (CWar)
-- Manople (SStorm)
-- Sang Kauw (OA)

Feats granting shield bonuses usually do so on conditions of some kind.
Two Weapon Defense (PHB): When wielding two weapons, gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.

Shieldmate (MinHB): If an ally has this feat and is proficient with a shield, you get a +1 shield bonus to AC. +2 if it’s a Tower Shield.

Twin Sword Style (FRCS): when fighting with two blades (any combo of dagger, longsword, rapier, scimitar, short sword) you can pick an opponent and get a +2 shield bonus to AC to attacks from that opponent. Stacks with shield bonus from a buckler or animated shield. [Regional] feat from the Forgotten Realms.

Twin Sword Style [Ancestor] (Dragon #318): This one has a little more credibility as it was specifically termed an update to the Oriental Adventures book. This Twin Sword Style feat also allows you to pick up a +2 to shield bonus, but it specifically does not stack with Two Weapon Defense. What it does do is allow you to pick up this shield bonus when fighting with a katana and a wakizashi (which is basically a masterwork short sword in the same way a katana is just a masterwork bastard sword.)

Shield of Thought (RoE): Have to have a mind blade, and have to be a Kalashtar, but as a move action, get the equivalent of a light shield: +1 shield bonus to AC, -1 ACP. If you have a mind blade enhancement class feature, the bonus points from the ability can go to the shield instead of the mind blade, acting as a +1 enhancement bonus to the shield bonus and reducing the ACP to 0.



-- Swashbuckler 5 (PHB 2 p.68): the ACF Shield of Blades can only be taken at this level, and knocks out the Swashbuckler’s Dodge Bonus class feature in favour of a +2 shield bonus to AC whenever you attack with at least 2 light weapons during your turn. Explicitly applies to any light weapon including unarmed strikes or natural weapons. This bonus increases very slowly throughout remaining Swashbuckler levels.

-- Exotic Weapon Master (CWar): if the master wields an exotic double weapon in both hands, they gain a +1 shield bonus to AC (Double Weapon Defense).

--Sorcerer/Wizard (PHB 2): Immediate Magic ACF (Abjuration school) – you forego a familiar, but can create a temporary shield composed of force that provides a +2 Shield Bonus to AC.


-- Shield (SRD), Sor/Wiz 1, Abjuration, +4 shield bonus to AC. Remember this one, it’s going to come up a lot. Can be Persisted.

-- Deflect (PHB 2), Sor/Wiz 2, Duskblade 2, Abjuration. Gives half your Caster Level as a shield bonus against the next attack on you before the end of your next turn. This one has the biggest possibility for stratospheric numbers given how caster level can be steroid’ed, but it also invites DM objections that it only exists when you’re attacked, not when it’s cast and is valid for sacrifice to Inlindl School. If accepted, though, Deflect outperforms Shield from the point you’re CL 10 – which most Abjurant Champion 5s are. And it can even be made Persistent.

-- Repelling Shield (CMage), Sor/Wiz 3, Abjuration [Force]. Functions just like Shield, but also pushes an opponent who attacks you back by 5 feet as well. Inlindl School only requires that you sacrifice your shield bonus, nothing else, so this secondary effect would continue to operate even if you can't pull +4 to your AC from it. And as both an Abjuration and [force] spell, Abjurant Champion and Argent Savant will both apply to it.

-- Coat of Arms (CMage), Sor/Wiz 5, Evocation. Maximum +6 shield bonus to AC.

-- Summon Warforged Champion (FoE), Warforged 9 (i.e. divine). Big metal unit grants a +5 shield bonus to AC if it’s within 15 feet of you.

-- Shield Block maneuver (ToB) (Devoted Spirit) – not a magic option as such, but grants your shield bonus +4 to an ally as an immediate action … but can explicitly only be used as a reaction to a melee or ranged attack, so not much scope for use here.

-- Steel Shadows (ToM) Apprentice Path Mystery, Cloak of Shadows path: 10 mins/level, a +3 shield bonus and a +3 armor bonus granted to AC. No ACP, no arcane spell failure chance. From the Abjuration school, too, so Abjurant Champion could boost it.

-- Force Screen (SRD): Basically the psionic version of Shield, which grants a shield bonus of 4 + 1/4 manifester levels.

-- Ring of Force Shield (DMG p. 232): creates a shield composed of force which functions as a heavy shield (i.e. +2 to AC) with no ACP.




Enhancements to Shield Bonus to AC


Shield Wall (HoB): when you and an adjacent ally are each using a shield, your shield bonus to AC increases by 2.

Shield Specialization (PHB 2): When using a type of shield (buckler, heavy, or light) its shield bonus to AC increases by 1. Note doesn’t apply to exotic shields at least by RAW.

Improved Two Weapon Defense (CWar): See Two Weapon Defense above, increase the shield bonus by another +1.

Greater Two Weapon Defense (CWar): See Improved Two Weapon Defense above, increase the shield bonus by another +1.

Improved Shieldmate (MinHB): See Shieldmate above, increase the shield bonus by +1.

Improved Buckler Defense (CWar): attack with an offhand weapon while still benefiting from the buckler’s shield bonus to AC. Kind of neutralising a penalty rather than a direct increase to AC as such.

Divine Shield (CWar): standard action, burn a turn undead use and increase your shield bonus by your CHA modifier. Lasts for a number of rounds equal to half your character level.

Focused Shield (RoS): psionic, but if you’re psionically focued and holding a readied shield youre proficient with, the AC bonus provided by the shield increases by 1. Strictly speaking by RAW it doesn’t increase the shield bonus as said, but it’s close enough for jazz.


Knight 2 (PHB 2): Designate a single opponent, and your shield bonus against that enemy increases by 1. Increases very slowly throughout remaining Knight levels.

Argent Savant 2 (CArc): If an Argent Savant casts a [force] spell that provides a shield bonus to AC, the spell’s normal armor bonus increases by +2. This applies to spells like Shield which work as force effects.

Abjurant Champion 1-5 (CMage): The AbChamp is almost essential for gishes anyway, but its use for Inlindl School comes from what it does for abjuration spells … which include Shield and Deflect (and possibly Steel Shadows). The AbChamp’s Abjurant Armor feature increases an abjuration spell’s AC bonus by the AbChamp’s level -- i.e. up to a +5 pm a Shield spell for a maximum of +9, and raising the shield bonus on a Deflect spell by (1/2 Caster Level) +5 i.e. saving 10 caster levels in effect.

Sanctified One 1-5 (CChamp): The Sanctified One specific to Wee Jas has one useful ability, Armor of Law, which can be taken at the first level: if you have an armor bonus, it increases by your Sanctified One class level. If you have no armor bonus, you can increase your shield bonus instead.

Bodyguard (Dragon #310) (Variant Fighter): A fighter with the Cover special ability can as a free action assign their Shield Bonus to an adjacent creature. This shield bonus stacks with “such bonuses as the creature already has”. This would appear to override the rule that multiple shield bonuses do not stack, since "such bonuses" either is referring to all bonuses to AC that the character already has, or is referring only to dodge or shield bonuses ... which still accomplishes the same thing.

Horseman (Dragon #310) (Variant Fighter): A fighter with the Share Shield special ability can share his shield bonus with his mount on a DC 15 Ride check as a move action.



Wall of Steel (Teamwork Benefit, PHB 2): If the members of a declared team have shield proficiencies and certain BAB, as a swift action a team member can surrender his shield bonus and grant it to another single, adjacent member of the team. A team can consiste of as few as 2 members, and minions/familiar/special mounts/animal companions all qualify for it. This bonus stacks with any existing shield bonus the other team member has. And it doesn’t take up any spell, body, or feat slots to have it.

Magic Vestment (Spell, SRD): Imbue ‘a shield’ with a max +5 enhancement bonus. Hour/level. It invites flying DMGs to point out the game does not define what a ‘shield’ is, and by RAW what manifests as the result of a Shield spell qualifies for this spell. Or that the Ring of Force Shielding, which functions as a heavy shield, might also.

Enhancement Bonus to shield: Armor quality, i.e. the good old +1 to +5 maximum enhancement bonus which costs a bomb and doesn’t stack with Magic Vestment above.

Raising Caster Level: This applies mainly to two of the options above – Deflect and Force Screen. Deflect, as said, requires that your DM regards it as a shield bonus available at the start of your turn, but since it’s keyed directly to caster level, anything that boosts your caster level also boosts the shield bonus granted by this spell.

Force Screen – per Anthrowhale – can benefit from the same technique by jacking up your caster level and then using Mental Pinnacle to convert the CL to a manifester level, and finally manifesting this by using one of the methods to add Force Screen to your manifestable powers, like so. Psionic Powers Overview :: d20srd.org (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown)


A full overview of how to steroid your Caster Level is well beyond the scope of this thread, but here’s a list of methods (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?654710-Raising-Caster-Level).


And in particular, the Dragon #325 feat Theurgic Specialist can really, really send your levels through the roof. If you’d like to see how, click here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?652847-Optimizing-Song-of-Cosmic-Fire).




Minimising Armor Check Penalty
What you pick here has to lower ACP on the shield, not your armor. There are two techniques to be considered: reducing ACP that can’t be avoided … and outright bypassing ACP. (And note that ACP is only generated by carrying a shield – if the Shield Bonus is coming from your feats or from magic, it has no ACP attached.)

Reducing ACP

Masterwork (SRD): -1 to ACP, and you’re getting this if your shield has any magical qualities anyway.

Mithral (SRD): -3 to ACP. And it’s time to clear up a common misconception: this reduction stacks with the reduction from masterwork. Just because a mithral shield is always masterwork does not mean that the masterwork reduction in ACP is subsumed. We are talking about a reduction in ACP, not an enhancement bonus. They are untyped bonuses coming from different sources, and unlike masterwork weapons there is no specific exclusion on untyped bonuses stacking in this case. So a masterwork mithral breastplate has no ACP at all, being a total of -4 ACP. (That said, you’ve still got a long way to go given a Tower Shield has -10 ACP.)

Darkwood (SRD): -2 to ACP, but because of unfortunately different wording, it likely doesn’t stack with masterwork. Per the SRD, a shield made out of darkwood is “considered a masterwork item”, and further calculations are made on the price with that assumption intact.

Entropium (A&EG): …question mark. Armors made of entropium increase the ACP for Climb and Jump, but reduce the ACP for the other affected skills, so maybe it has a net ACP of 0?

Living Metal (MoF, p. 180) After 10 days of regular wearing, armor made of living metal reduces its ACP by 1. Presumably this would also apply to shields as well.

Dragonmetal (Dragonlance CS): -3 to ACP which explicitly does not stack with masterwork. Special material.

Nimbleness (MIC): -2 to ACP, but it’s debatable whether this armor quality can go on a shield, since it refers only to suits of armor, and the MIC does make distinctions between one or the other (e.g. Variable shield quality, above, in the same book.)

Hellforged template (DMG 2): -1 to ACP. Feycraft weapons are one template, but there are others – such as hellforged armors and shields.

Vengeance Knight 1 (CoR): -1 ACP for all shields at the first level of this prestige class. Strictly speaking, you don’t get any more ACP reductions for shields, but armors get further reductions.


Bypassing ACP

- Animated armor quality (SRD) (+2 bonus), on a shield. Weapon Finesse’s wording is that if you carry a shield, its ACP applies to your Weapon Finesse attack rolls. But an animated shield, by definition, is not being carried. Where the DM will object is in the wording of the Animated armor quality: “A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency.” Certainly the RAI seems to be against us, but a cheeky (or desperate) player might argue that carrying a shield is not the same as using the shield … and Weapon Finesse is only penalised if you are carrying a shield, per the RAW.

- Variable armor quality (MIC) (+1 bonus), for a shield specifically. A variable shield can change its size as a swift action from a buckler up to tower shield ... or down. So, at the start of the turn, sacrifice your variable, masterwork tower shield’s shield bonus to become a bonus to attack rolls … and then change the shield into a masterwork buckler, which has an ACP of 0. And thus proceed to freely use Weapon Finesse without penalty in that round.

- Shieldbearer spell (SpC) (Sor/Wiz 1): It’s the animated quality in a spell, but without the ACP. The drawback is that it only lasts 1 round/level, and as a touch range spell, it’s debatable whether it can be Persisted or not.

- Just don't use Weapon Finesse at all. ACP only applies to attack rolls if you're getting DEX to attack rolls under the feat; if you're not adding DEX to attack, then neither does ACP have anything to do with you.

[Saintheart]

Approaches, Combinations, Builds

Melee vs Ranged Attacks
Since Inlindl School only grants its bonuses to melee attacks, this feat doesn’t do a lot for ranged attackers. There is, of course, one big exception. It’s that muscly, bald-headed, grey-bearded dude who makes a cape look stylish and manly over in Tome of Battle: Bloodstorm Blade. Thunderous Throw essentially means Inlindl School now applies to your thrown weapon attacks, and you can skip all that weedy Weapon Finesse malarkey in favour of just hurling bastard swords through people’s faces while applying full STR bonuses and loving it.

A bit more seriously, Inlindl School can be used here to counter range increment penalties, which still apply to your weapon throws. This extends the feasible throwing distance.



Armor Check Penalty Isn’t That Big a Problem
ACP only becomes relevant if you’re using Weapon Finesse.
And again, going straight for the Tower Shield doesn’t necessarily help. It provides +4 Shield Bonus to AC at the cost of a 10 in Armor Check Penalty. A Hellforged (-1 ACP) Mithral (-3 ACP) + Masterwork (-1 ACP) Tower Shield of Nimbleness (-2 ACP), even wielded by a Vengeance Knight 1 (-1 ACP) = -8 ACP. So that it’s literally a wash for Inlindl School if you’re going to use Weapon Finesse: Inlindl School applies a +2 to your attack rolls from the Tower Shield’s +4, but the Tower Shield’s ACP cuts that by -2. At best all you did was counter Weapon Finesse’s penalty. The Extreme Shield might take another feat slot, but it has a much more manageable -4 in ACP.

However, and this bears repeating: if you don’t use Weapon Finesse, ACP doesn’t hurt Inlindl School. You can freely run around with an Animated Tower Shield wielding an Elven Courtblade with Power Attack and ACP won’t slow you down in the slightest.



Magic Options
Knight 2/Paladin 4/Suel Arcanamach 3/Abjurant Champion 5 + Shield
Taking Divine Shield, this character’s Shield spell lasts 39 minutes and provides a Shield Bonus of +10+CHA:
+4 Shield
+1 Knight
+CHA (Divine Shield from Paladin)
+5 Abjurant Champion
Assuming CHA 18 and a +6 CHA stat booster, that’s a +17 Shield Bonus which becomes a +8 bonus to all attack rolls in any given round.


Knight 2/Arcane Caster X/Abjurant Champion 5/Sanctified One 5/Argent Savant 2 + Shield
The Shield Bonus is +18:
+4 Shield
+5 Abjurant Champion
+2 Argent Savant
+5 Sanctified One
+1 Knight
And thus a +9 to attack rolls under Inlindl School. If your DM rules Magic Vestment applies to a Shield spell, it can go higher still.


Wizard 5/Bard 1/Sublime Chord 10 + Deflect + Theurgic Specialist
Deflect gives a Shield bonus of 1/2 your caster level. Here, your caster level is the sum of all your classes and more, thanks to Sublime Chord and Theurgic Specialist – in this case, 41:
Wizard 5, boosted by Sublime Chord 10 = +15
Bard 1, boosted by Sublime Chord 10 = +11
Sublime Chord 10 (Wizard 5 + Sublime Chord 10) = +15
Deflect gives a Shield bonus of +20, and Inlindl School converts that to an attack bonus of +10.
And that’s a very simple, low-end take on caster level maximisation. Any decent theurgic build can pull the same or much, much more. On that one, see below ...



Trickster Spellthief 1/Warmage 1/Transformer(spontaneous divination) 5/Beguiler 1/Bard 1/Warmage 1/Wu-Jen 1/Duskblade 1/Sha'ir 1/Death Master 1/Magewright 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Witch 1/Sublime Chord 3 + Theurgic Specialist + Mental Pinnacle + Force Screen
Master Spellthief makes the caster level of all classes 20 while Theurgic Specialist adds up the caster levels of all 14 classes for transformation spells to get a caster level of 280. If the Sublime Chord's 6th level spell is Mental Pinnacle and it's cast with an orange ioun stone the character becomes a 5-known-powers Psion with manifester level 281. He can then manifest force screen using another's powers known to get a shield bonus of 74 and then use Inlindl school to get a +37 bonus to hit. Note though that the character has BAB 4.

This may be interesting in comparison to the Deflect approach (which scales twice as fast) because it avoids the DM having to rule that Deflect makes its shield bonus available outside the attack that triggers its effect.



Mounts and Minions
Abjurant Champion 5 + Shield + Paladin Mount + Wall of Steel + Inlindl School
Abjurant Champion 5 casts a Shield spell. The Shield spell grants a +9 shield bonus under Abjurant Armor. The mount’s Share Spells feature allows it to also receive a +9 Shield Bonus to AC.

As a swift action, the mount assigns its shield bonus back to the AbChamp, under Wall of Steel. The Abjurant Champion now has a +18 Shield Bonus to AC. Under Inlindl School, the Abjurant Champion now has a +9 bonus to his melee attack rolls.

However: the mount needs shield proficiency to get Wall of Steel. It can pick this up via a feat replacement (cf. creatures under the Warbeast template which are explicitly proficient with light through heavy armor). Wall of Steel calls out special mounts explicitly as qualifiying for teamwork benefits. The argument is even stronger as you branch into other special mounts or if the creature is an animal companion, where there’s greater flexibility on feat selection. (Very annoyingly, the Shield Proficiency feat is not called out as a fighter bonus feat, so the Heroics spell can't be used to get around the problem.)


Minions + Shield + Wall of Steel + Inlindl School
A similar application of the trick uses a bunch of low-end followers, as long as they have BAB +2 and shield proficiency. They stand adjacent to you with their shields (or indeed iterations of Shield if you feel like it). As swift actions they assign their shield bonuses all to you. Each iteration of Shield adds to your ‘existing shield bonus’, which renders them stackable since the existing shield bonus then is raised from the previous assigned shield value. 5 minions giving you +4 Shield bonus results in a +20 to Shield Bonus which is then a +10 to attack rolls via Inlindl School.

Similar trick applies if your minions are a group of Bodyguard variant Fighter 1s. They use Cover to throw all of their shield bonuses at you at once.


Minions + Shield Wall + Wall of Steel + Inlindl School
Similar again, but give your minions and yourself a feat: Shield Wall. Make sure you carry a shield as well.

Standing in two rows of three, with yourself at the centre of the front line, means everybody in the formation picks up +2 to their shield bonuses. Assume everyone's using a Tower Shield and you've got a buckler (at +1). Under Wall of Steel, those 5 minions each throw a +6 shield bonus to you, making your total a +33 to Shield bonus, and thus a +16 to your attack rolls.

This gets more impressive if your DM allows the reading that each adjacent ally supplies you with a stackable +2. If so, you and the guy right behind you pick up a +10 to your shield bonuses, and everyone else in the formation has a +6. All assigned to you, that becomes a total Shield Bonus of +10+4x+6 = +34, added to your own bonus of +11 for a grand total of +45 Shield Bonus, which becomes a +22 to your attack rolls under Inlindl School.


Bodyguards + Shield Wall + Inlindl School.
Here, four of your minions are variant Fighter Bodyguard 1s, who have selected the Cover special ability. Each has the Shield Wall feat. (You do not have the feat and there is no Wall of Steel here.) Each minion carries a Tower Shield, and therefore each of the four have a Shield Bonus of +6. Each minion uses the Cover special ability to assign their shield bonuses to you. Per the special ability's wording, each of the shield bonuses stacks with yours, cumulatively. Thus leaving you with a shield bonus of +24, which is then sacrificed under Inlindl School for +12 to attack rolls.





To Weapon Finesse or not to Weapon Finesse?
Again, you don’t have to use Weapon Finesse with Inlindl School, but it turns Weapon Finesse into a feat tax. Not to mention that even if you don’t have an ACP hindering you, if you’ve got a good enough STR you generally don’t need DEX as a bonus to your attack rolls anyway, i.e. Weapon Finesse wouldn’t be doing anything for you even if you were using it.

“Okay, I won’t use Weapon Finesse because I have a good STR.”
You still have to wield a finesseable weapon for Inlindl School to operate. So you need to answer one question: do you want to burn another feat slot on Exotic Weapon Proficiency?


Then your best option is a feycraft version of a Warmace (CWar). Or any one-handed weapon that has a mechanic of “you need Exotic Weapon Proficiency to wield this one-handed, but can treat it as a martial weapon when you wield it with two hands”, e.g. bastard sword, katana, maul, dwarven waraxe.

One-handed weapons can be feycraft. When they are, they are deemed as light weapons – but only for the purposes of Weapon Finesse. There is no argument a katana is a one-handed weapon, even if you need Exotic Weapon Proficiency to wield it in one hand. And therefore a feycraft katana is Finesseable. Inlindl School only checks whether the weapon is one to which Weapon Finesse applies. But one-handed weapons also pick up x1.5 STR bonus damage and full Power Attack benefits when wielded in two hands.

The Warmace wins out because its default damage dice is d12. As such, a feycraft warmace wielded in two hands does 1d10+STRx1.5 damage, works fully with Power Attack, works with Inlindl School – and requires no EWP to wield it that way. Compare the Elven Courtblade which has to be wielded in two hands, does exactly the same damage, works with Power Attack, and works with Inlindl School, and forces you to take an EWP to do so.

Virtually any one-handed weapon can be feycrafted, but few have significant damage dice without also being exotic to even use. (The same can be said for most one-handed weapons which do useful things like trip or disarm.)

You can also consider even more cheesemongery, albeit at a -2 to the attack roll: a Large Warmace. It's still a one-handed weapon, so it can still be feycrafted; the feycraft template does not check against the size, only that it would "normally" be a one-handed weapon. One-handed weapons at Large can be wielded in two hands by Medium characters, but they are then considered two-handed weapons, i.e. the DM finally gets a look in on your Inlindl School fun. Unless, of course, you have the feat Monkey Grip, which keeps a Large Warmace as a one-handed weapon for a Medium-sized creature. A feycraft Large Warmace does 1d12+STRX1.5 damage, continues to work fully with Power Attack and Inlindl School, and only takes a -2 to wield for a Medium character.


Then the gold and silver medals here are the Spiked Chain and the Elven Courtblade.

The Spiked Chain is finesseable and thus works with Inlindl School, it’s a two-handed weapon and thus gets maximum advantage out of Power Attack, it has Reach, and you can trip with it. It can be taken in any direction including AoO builds or charging. (It can even be taken in the direction of DEX to damage, since it explicitly works with Shadow Blade.)

The Elven Courtblade comes a close second because it has a good damage dice (better than the Spiked Chain) and it qualifies for Inlindl School despite being two-handed. It’s also worth considering if you’re looking at Champion of Corellon Larethian in particular.

(No, don’t use the rapier. Although it’s a one-handed weapon, and Finesseable, it cannot access x1.5 STR bonus to damage when used in two hands. That said, it doesn’t explicitly lock you out from using it with Power Attack. It’s still a one-handed weapon by RAW.)

And if you're going to subject yourself to an Exotic Weapon while also skipping Weapon Finesse, you might as well go the whole hog and ask your DM if it can be a Heavy weapon (MoF p. 179). This invites a thrown DMG since explicitly "You can never use the Weapon Finesse feat with a weapon made of a heavy metal" ... but we're using Inlindl School, not the Weapon Finesse feat, and Inlindl School only checks whether it's a weapon to which Weapon Finesse applies.

“No, I still need to use Weapon Finesse because I have high DEX and low STR.”
In which case we’re assuming you’re not going down the Power Attack route, so it’s two-weapon fighting, sneak attack, or similar. We’re also going to set natural weapons and unarmed strikes to one side as well, because while they surely can benefit from Inlindl School and Power Attack, they are their own analysis entirely.

The least worst choices are the rapier and/or the short sword. They don’t cost any more feats and both can be used with Weapon Finesse, albeit the rapier can’t be wielded in the off hand without a big TWF penalty. Some one-handed weapons can be feycrafted which might do as much damage or do tripping or similar, but they’re usually going to be exotic weapons. (As will the Spiked Chain, which is still an option here because it’s a finesseable weapon.)

However, the real problem here isn’t so much that we have to use Weapon Finesse, it’s that we’re only using our DEX for attack rolls, not damage. Getting DEX to damage isn’t easy under 3.5, but as long as we’re here and talking about two-weapon fighting, let’s review some of the main methods:



Shadow Blade (feat) (ToB): DEX added to damage, but only when you’re using Shadow Hand weapons and in a Shadow Hand stance. For our purposes, the short sword is the most significant Shadow Hand weapon, because it’s light, does 1d6 damage, and doesn’t require another feat to use. (The others are dagger, sai, siangham, spiked chain, and unarmed strike.) Shadow Blade can be taken in place of Weapon Finesse for prerequisites, i.e. you can qualify for Inlindl School with Combat Expertise and Shadow Blade. (And as an added bonus, the problem of ACP being pushed on your attack rolls goes away since you don't have the Weapon Finesse feat that would imposes the penalty.) The problem being that you’ve then got the reverse issue you had with Weapon Finesse: DEX to damage but no DEX to attack rolls! Feycraft versions of light weapons solve this problem – a feycraft version of a light weapon can explicitly use DEX to attack rolls -- but I hope your DEX is sky-high to make up for the fact your short swords are doing 1d4 damage.

Hit And Run Tactics (Fighter ACF) (DoTU): It’s frequently misunderstood as a drow-only ACF, but by RAW it isn’t. Give up your heavy armor and tower shield proficiency, and when attacking a flat-footed opponent within 30 feet, add DEX to damage as a competence bonus, i.e. it stacks with other iterations of DEX to damage.

Champion of Corellon Larethian 2 (PrC) (RoTW): DEX to damage – specifically in addition to STR bonus – but only on certain weapons: Elven Courtblade, Elven Thinblade, Elven Lightblade, Scimitar, Longsword, or Rapier. Elven Lightblade is basically an exotic shortsword, and Elven Thinblade an exotic rapier. Apart from the elven lightblade, none of these weapons are light weapons, so this one might soak you another EWP if you want to get your DEX to damage with your off hand.

Corsair 9 (Dragon 321, p. 72): DEX to damage … although possibly more. It doesn’t just substitute STR for DEX as such, it says you can use DEX ‘to determine bonus damage’ on a light weapon. Corsair 8 already treats certain one-handed slashing weapons as light, so arguably your damage rolls with a one-handed slashing weapon wielded in two hands get damage at DEX x1.5.



Infinite Shield Cheese ... almost

Summary: Shield Sheath (RoS) + Spiked Light Shield (SRD) + Protection Domain Affiliation (PHB 2) + Inlindl School technicality. Credit to daremetoidareyou who uses a form of this as a central part of his E6 build here. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23126100&postcount=58)

The Shield Sheath attaches to a shield and can contain 'any light weapon'. Drawing a weapon from the sheath is a free action if it has to be readied.
A Spiked Light Shield, per the SRD, is a light weapon.

Shields confer no shield bonus unless readied. Normally readying a shield takes a move action, but the Protection Domain Affiliation allows you to do this as a free action. But when using a shield as a weapon, you cannot derive a shield bonus from it.

daremetoidareyou also makes a reasonable point: shield bonuses to AC don't stack, but untyped bonuses do ... as in, the bonuses that Inlindl School gives to an attack roll. And Inlindl School says the bonus is applied "at the start of your turn" -- not before any other actions are taken.

So, assuming a DM who doesn't have a high DEX mod to assist with hurling DMGs, and assuming the DM allows free actions to occur before you have to finalise your Inlindl School bonus, we have a situation where two shield bonuses get applied as a free action: the shield we have readied, which is sacrificed to Inlindl School ... and the shield drawn from the sheath as a free action, readied as a free action, sacrificed to Inlindl School ... and then attacked with as a weapon. Thus, two lots of shield bonus applied to Inlindl School, since they're untyped bonuses coming from different sources.

The perfected extension of this cheese would be if you could find a way to drop a readied shield as a free action. Combined with an infinite recursion situation where every one of your shields has its own shield sheath attached with another shield inside it. The one problem, and it is a damnable one that I have spent time leafing through books and scrolling through files and yet have failed at ... is to find one feat, spell, or miserable piece of equipment that actually allows you to drop a readied shield as a free action. It is, as far as I can tell, one of the great physical constants of the Einsteinian universe that dropping a readied shield always costs you a move action, thus making this bit of Gouda impossible. There's quick-release armor that lets you get naked in a lot less time, there's free action dropping of weapons, but nowhere do I know of an option that allows you to do the same for a readied shield. And it has to be a readied shield since an unreadied shield provides no shield bonus that we can vampire'ise for Inlindl School.

[Saintheart]

Other bits of Lego blocks

Exotic Weapon Master
Exotic weapons crop up a lot in this space, and this class amounts to a partial apology from WOTC to those who want to wield such weapons. Some of the weapon stunts – Uncanny Blow, Flurry of Strikes, Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting, Trip Attack – are well worth considering as mitigations or enhancements on certain exotic finessable weapons in these builds.

Champion of Corellon Larethian
The CoCL already grants DEX to damage on the Elven Courtblade and so has been mentioned, but it has certain other aspects that lean at least a little toward Inlindl School (ironic though it is that a champion of the elven gods picks up a fighting school of the drow.) CoCL shares a prerequisite with Inlindl School: Combat Expertise. And Inlindl School itself can be taken in CoCL 1 ‘s bonus feat slot (you’d still have to find room for Weapon Finesse somewhere).

Iaijutsu Master
Iaijutsu is one of those 3.0 skills which benefits from Inlindl School since if you don’t hit, you don’t apply the tons of bonus d6s in damage that come with it. Iaijutsu Master from OA tends to only be viable for 5 levels tops, but one of its bonus feat slots saves you having to take Combat Expertise and (b) you might not have to take Weapon Finesse at all.

The Iaijutsu Master gets to apply DEX to attack rolls with a katana, functioning ‘as if’ they had Weapon Finesse. Under ‘virtual feat’ rules in Masters of the Wild (which weren’t updated and therefore continue to apply), a class ability that precisely duplicates a feat can be deemed good enough to qualify as a prerequisite, i.e. you can reasonably ask your DM to have the master’s Weapon Finesse(Ex) ability to serve as Weapon Finesse for Inlindl School purposes. And at Iaijutsu Master 4, the master also picks up a bonus feat which has to come from a defined list, including, you guessed it, Combat Expertise.

Iajutsu Master is online at a minimum ECL 7. Taking its 5 levels means you get another character feat slot at Iaijutsu Master 5. So get Weapon Finesse via a virtual feat and Combat Expertise explicitly, then leave the PrC at level 12 picking up Inlindl School on the way out.


Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler’s one of those frustrating classes which doesn’t quite do anything as strongly as full martials or full skillmonkeys, but it does have elements that could make it useful for Inlindl School. It picks up Weapon Finesse without prerequisite DEX scores, and its INT bonus to damage works on all finesseable weapons like Inlindl School, i.e. we don’t have to use Weapon Finesse if we don’t want to and can outright dump DEX if we’re pushed since we got Weapon Finesse for free anyway. The Shield of Blades ACF also gives us a bit more shield bonus to work with.

However, the Swashbuckler doesn’t come with any shield proficiency (which is kind of dumb given Shield of Blades all but assumes it), and it doesn’t have enough feat slots on its own to really ratchet things like Twin Sword Style. But the full BAB and INT to damage make it a tempting possible addition to a Wizard base going into Abjurant Champion.


Corsair (Dragon #321)
Technically the Corsair is a prestige class, but it’s a full BAB one and can be entered early (BAB +4) and it’s arguably more useful than some default classes here. It shares Weapon Finesse as a prerequisite with Inlindl School, and it picks up Combat Expertise for free at Corsair 4 – so you could be out at ECL 9 with Inlindl School qualified for that same level. However, more tempting are the features sitting at Corsair 8, 9, and 10:
- Corsair 8 allows you to treat any one-handed slashing weapon that you’ve got Weapon Focus with as a light weapon. (Weapon sizing shenanigans are one way to have fun with this, certainly, but another is to get into heavy versions of one-handed weapons – if you avoid using Weapon Finesse).
- Corsair 9 ‘Dex to damage’ feature bears a little careful reading: it says you can use your DEX to replace STR ‘to determine bonus damage’. That isn’t just adding DEX to damage: it’s arguably saying that if you’re using a one-handed weapon in two hands, you don’t get x1.5 STR damage, you get x1.5 DEX damage, since the weapon counts as a light weapon but is still a one-handed weapon by type, i.e. in two hands it gets x1.5 bonus STR (or DEX rather) to damage.
- Corsair 10 has a nice ‘I swat you with an AoO if I provoked an AoO from you by moving out of your threatened area’, which is gold for AoO builds since if you want more than one swing at an enemy without a full attack, you just walk through the monster’s personal space hitting them every time they try to hit you. Combine with Karmic Strike or Robilar’s Gambit for even better results. And AoOs are boosted by Inlindl School too. Not bad for ECL 15.

[Saintheart]

Spare Box.

This now replaces the [Workshop] thread, but all comments and additional builds are, as always, welcome. :smallcool: ... and that's it, take it away guys!

[Zarvistic]

The tooth chain from races of ansalon is similar to the spiked chain but also causes the targets of your attacks to make a save vs stun. The DC is based on your attacks roll, so I think it could work very nice with this. Needs feycraft to make it light. Maybe like a whirlwind type of build with that one feat that lets you use dex for tripping + factotum.

[Gruftzwerg]

Avalanche of Blades

Diamond Mind (Strike)
Level: Swordsage 7, warblade 7

As long as your attack hits, make another attack against the same foe with a cumulative –4 penalty to hit.

Dunno if we can tailor this into any build here (due to being a 7th lvl maneuver), but this would be a nice way to make use of the high Attack Bonus total.

[daremetoidareyo]

Tree brother a legacy weapon in weapons of legacy with 50 charges that kind of blows, but it’s only 1500 GP and it counts as both a Quarterstaff and a magic staff and so you can always have that +5.

[Kalkra]

Looking at RoS, an Elven Courtblade only does 1d10 damage and doesn't say anything about letting you use both Str and Dex.

[Saintheart]

Looking at RoS, an Elven Courtblade only does 1d10 damage and doesn't say anything about letting you use both Str and Dex.

I'll correct, but it is a finesseable 2 handed weapon. It can be used with Str or Dex on its attack roll therefore, and under CoCL stacks Dex and Str bonus to damage.

[Saintheart]

Avalanche of Blades

Diamond Mind (Strike)
Level: Swordsage 7, warblade 7

As long as your attack hits, make another attack against the same foe with a cumulative –4 penalty to hit.

Dunno if we can tailor this into any build here (due to being a 7th lvl maneuver), but this would be a nice way to make use of the high Attack Bonus total.


As said, Avalanche of Blades would be tricky to work in ... but the maneuver Wall of Blades (Warblade 2) seems to benefit from it and could be worked in easier.

Wall of Blades: When an enemy makes a melee or ranged attack against you, you can initiate this counter to oppose that attack by making an attack roll with any melee weapon you are holding.

Inlindl School: sacrifice your shield bonus to AC in exchange for a bonus on melee attack rolls...


An attack roll with a melee weapon sure sounds a lot like a melee attack roll to me.

If you've already sacrificed your shield bonus against the attack rolls, this maneuver helps you get it back or possibly exceed it depending on how good your modifiers are.

[Chronos]

So, after all this work, this feat is giving you +5ish to attack, maybe a bit more? That's still a bit underwhelming. It's a lot easier to optimize Knowledge Devotion to give +5, and that applies to damage, as well.

[Saintheart]

So, after all this work, this feat is giving you +5ish to attack, maybe a bit more? That's still a bit underwhelming. It's a lot easier to optimize Knowledge Devotion to give +5, and that applies to damage, as well.

Sure.

And?

I mean, the de rigeur thing to do here is get defensive about my interest in a feat that doesn't deliver good old BAB16NinthLevelSpellsAllSkillsAsClassSkillsTier1 et. al. Or start defending builds or interpretations, which just tends to end up in quotewars and occasionally the descent of the dreaded red text.

I'd rather just leave you the set of tools and see if it interests people. 3.5's about customisation and finding interesting options. Sometimes it's about seeing if lemonade can be made from lemons. If you don't like my flavours or my mix, there's always the Cloistered Cleric booknerd's stand right up the street.

[Chronos]

Oh, you've done great work here, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. If your goal was to maximize how much you can get out of a subpar feat, then you succeeded, bringing it up to a half-decent feat.

[Saintheart]

Oh, you've done great work here, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. If your goal was to maximize how much you can get out of a subpar feat, then you succeeded, bringing it up to a half-decent feat.

Really appreciated! Sorry, I thought the worst of your comment and I apologise for it :)

[Anthrowhale]

Trickster Spellthief 1/Warmage 1/Transformer(spontaneous divination) 5/Beguiler 1/Bard 1/Warmage 1/Wu-Jen 1/Duskblade 1/Sha'ir 1/Death Master 1/Magewright 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Witch 1/Sublime Chord 3
with Master Spellthief and Theurgic Specialist can generate some reasonably larger numbers.

Master Spellthief makes the caster level of all classes 20 while Theurgic Specialist adds up the caster levels of all 14 classes for transformation spells to get a caster level of 280. If the Sublime Chord's 6th level spell is Mental Pinnacle (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/mentalPinnacle.htm) and it's cast with an orange ioun stone the character becomes a 5-known-powers Psion with manifester level 281. He can then manifest force screen using another's powers known (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown) to get a shield bonus of 74 and then use Inlindl school to get a +37 bonus to hit. Note though that the character has BAB 4.

Edit: the reason this may be interesting in comparison to the Deflect approach (which scales twice as fast) is avoidance of the questionable rules around Deflect.

[daremetoidareyo]

So, after all this work, this feat is giving you +5ish to attack, maybe a bit more? That's still a bit underwhelming. It's a lot easier to optimize Knowledge Devotion to give +5, and that applies to damage, as well.

Swift action staff activation is awesome

[Temotei]

Swift action staff activation is awesome

You're thinking of Eilservs School. Inlindl School just boosts your attack bonus in exchange for your shield bonus to AC.

[daremetoidareyo]

My bad drow ain’t my first language

In that case, I made an e6 build that might be of interest

Swashshielder the swashbuckler.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23126100&postcount=58

Chincey interpretation of multiple shield bonuses and shield sheathes aside, it’s neat.

[Saintheart]

My bad drow ain’t my first language

In that case, I made an e6 build that might be of interest

Swashshielder the swashbuckler.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23126100&postcount=58

Chincey interpretation of multiple shield bonuses and shield sheathes aside, it’s neat.

Appreciated - I think I forgot to include it from the workshop, so I'll get in in there anyway :)

[Akal Saris]

One note for those going the Magic route with abjurant champion - PHBII has 'Repelling Shield', which is exactly the same as the Shield spell, except that foes must save or be pushed back 5ft after each attack. Good for disrupting opponents' full attacks at high levels, and still a swift action at abjurant champion 5.

[loky1109]

There are some interesting shields in the A&EG.

[Saintheart]

One note for those going the Magic route with abjurant champion - PHBII has 'Repelling Shield', which is exactly the same as the Shield spell, except that foes must save or be pushed back 5ft after each attack. Good for disrupting opponents' full attacks at high levels, and still a swift action at abjurant champion 5.

... and since Inlindl School only requires that you sacrifice your shield bonus and not any other effect on the shield, that mechanism still functions just fine.

[Saintheart]

Had a thought while doing some formatting fixes on the book. And it's about a somewhat Gouda way of getting infinite Inlindl School bonuses via a weapon, using daremetoidareyou's point that untyped bonuses stack. Namely, the Manople.

Manoples are "like" (but not explicitly) gauntlets, light weapon, 1d6 damage, but they take up your shield hand entirely for a +1 shield bonus to AC. Unlike any other weapon, they allow you to retain a +1 shield bonus to AC while attacking ... if you have EWP in the weapon. Otherwise, you lose the shield bonus to AC in the attack. But they also have no ACP and a 5% ASF. And, because they're light weapons, they can be Finesse'd, and therefore function with Inlindl School.

So far, so mediocre. However, when we start working it in with infinite weapon draws, it gets a bit more interesting.

dareme's insight was that, at least in theory, you could get more than one shield bonus operating at once by using a combination of options that allow you to have a shield, sacrifice its shield bonus to AC under Inlindl School, pull another shield from its shield sheath as a free action, ready it as a free action, sacrifice its shield bonus to AC under Inlindl School (since it's from another source) and they'd stack for Inlindl School purposes. What this depends on is the interpretation that free actions can be taken before you have to sacrifice your shield bonus "at the start of your turn" - free actions taking up no time and there being a theoretically-infinite number you can take of them.

Where this halts in efficacy for shields is that you can't free-action loose a shield.

But you can free-action drop a weapon. A manople is a weapon, and unlike a shield, does not have to be readied or strapped on to confer its +1 shield bonus to AC. The only rule is that you lose that shield bonus to AC if you attack with the manople in combat (unless you have EWP in it.)

So, two options:
(1) Bag of Holding containing a hundred Manoples + Quick Draw; or
(2) A -2 Cursed (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm) Manople + Quick Draw + any other weapon you don't want to use.

Option (1):
Combat starts. Free action draw a manople. +1 to shield bonus. Sacrifice to Inlindl School. +0.5 to attack rolls. Drop manople. Free action draw another manople. +1 to shield bonus. Sacrifice to Inlindl School. It's another untyped bonus, and thus stacks. You now have +1 to attack rolls. Repeat until your bonus is high enough to guarantee-hit on anything except a natural 1. This one doesn't require that you use an actual manople to fight with, since Inlindl School applies to multiple weapons and Quick Draw allows you to have, say, a Feycraft Warmace at the bottom of the bag for when you actually want to hit something.

Option (2):
Combat starts. Free action try to draw your undesired weapon. The Cursed Manople appears in your hand. +1 to shield bonus. Sacrifice to Inlindl School. +0.5 to attack rolls. Drop manople. Try to draw your undesired weapon again. Cursed Manople appears in your hand. +1 to shield bonus. Sacrifice to Inlindl School. Another +0.5 to attack rolls. Repeat until you've got a bonus high enough to hit anything even with the -2 to attack and -2 to damage. You're likely stuck with the manople to hit with.


Yes it requires free action ab/use, but it's not that much different to the old 'bag of katanas' trick for getting Iaijutsu Focus damage on each of your weapon draws.

[Gruftzwerg]

dareme's insight was that, at least in theory, you could get more than one shield bonus operating at once by using a combination of options that allow you to have a shield, sacrifice its shield bonus to AC under Inlindl School, pull another shield from its shield sheath as a free action, ready it as a free action, sacrifice its shield bonus to AC under Inlindl School (since it's from another source) and they'd stack for Inlindl School purposes. What this depends on is the interpretation that free actions can be taken before you have to sacrifice your shield bonus "at the start of your turn" - free actions taking up no time and there being a theoretically-infinite number you can take of them.

....

Yes it requires free action ab/use, but it's not that much different to the old 'bag of katanas' trick for getting Iaijutsu Focus damage on each of your weapon draws.

First, it's not even a free action, it's a "no action" 3.5:


At the start of your turn, you can choose to sacrifice your shield bonus to AC ...

Miscellaneous Actions
...

Use Feat

Certain feats let you take special actions in combat. Other feats do not require actions themselves, but they give you a bonus when attempting something you can already do. Some feats are not meant to be used within the framework of combat. The individual feat descriptions tell you what you need to know about them.




Imho doesn't work like that. "at the start of your turn" is a single moment and a "no action". You get to sacrifice stuff once per turn, because "as the start of your turn" sole gets triggered once and not multiple times.

The start of your turn is effectively the "action/no action" needed for the ability.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

RE manoples, I would also say that even if it worked, it would still fall afoul of the Same Source rule, since you're receiving multiple separate bonuses from Inlindl School.

[Anthrowhale]

Offtopic, but Despana School and Eilservs School look like they have more potential than Inlindl School.

[Saintheart]

Offtopic, but Despana School and Eilservs School look like they have more potential than Inlindl School.

I haven't done a deep dive on either -- and maybe it's time to do just that -- but Eilservs School is legit good for quarterstaff even at low levels of optimisation because it basically gives you Collision to both ends of a magic staff for a fraction of the price - 1,500 gp for a 50 charge Staff of Light gives the same damage bonus as a quarterstaff with an effective +3 to each end of the staff, which is what Collision would need. (Magic staves are "like a quarterstaff" in the SRD, so they presumably can be wielded like them too.)

However, looking closer at it, there's an interesting loophole similar to Knowledge Devotion in that it gives +5 to "damage rolls" when you "strike a creature with a magic staff". So the first thing I'd look at would be the Poison spell, channelled through something like Ordained Champion, or channelling a spell through the staff with Poison Spell appended to it. +5 to ability damage isn't bad for most poisons.

That said, Eilservs School also has some DMG-flight-worthy loopholes, because the bonus to damage (a) isn't confined to damage with the staff you strike with and (b) isn't confined to the creature you strike. Presumably you know exactly where your Unseen Servant is at all times, I guess you give it a friendly, automatic hit on its incorporeal head (it can't be killed anyway) with your magic staff (which has been reduced down to Small or Tiny size) and then proceed to enjoy +5 to your damage rolls against the actual enemies on the field. Or even more cheesy, give yourself a literal tap on the wrist (you are a creature, after all) and enjoy your +5s.

Also, heavy RAW cheese, but there's no time limit on how long the damage bonuses apply for: the start of combat, or the start of the round, or the start of the year, or what?


Despana School is also interesting and could use a deeper dive, not that I know as much about minionmancy. The Weapon Focus requirement in Light Mace immediately suggests Lightning Mace ab/use in some way, but as said I might take the microscope to it and see where we are there. That said, morale bonuses don't stack and the auto-flank seems most applicable if you're summoning minions with reach, so it'll be interesting to see what can be done with them.

[Anthrowhale]

...

Yes and more inolving Channel Charge, Arcane Disciple[Summoner], Sacred Outlaw, Unseen Seer, etc... They are good gish feats.

But probably best delved in a separate thread?

[Inevitability]

Wouldn't the 0.5 bonus get rounded down every time you try to apply it, giving a final result of 0+0+0+0+...+0+0=0?

[Saintheart]

Yes and more inolving Channel Charge, Arcane Disciple[Summoner], Sacred Outlaw, Unseen Seer, etc... They are good gish feats.

But probably best delved in a separate thread?

Yup. One of these days! :)