How Magic Works in D&D (It's Different)! By the Sage himself

[Rafaelfras]

Ed Greenwood discusses how magic, the weave and everything in between works on the Realms


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXFbgsFy1Xc

Hope you guys enjoy it

[KorvinStarmast]

Ed Greenwood discusses how magic, the weave and everything in between works on the Realms The Realms are not D&D{1}. -1 for failing to make that distinction. :smallfurious:

{1} They are an example of how to take world building and make a mess of it

[Rafaelfras]

The Realms are not D&D{1}. -1 for failing to make that distinction. :smallfurious:

{1} They are an example of how to take world building and make a mess of it

The PHB uses "The weave" to explain magic.
This is where it came from. The realms are fine, the mess is part of the charm :wink:

[Dr.Samurai]

I'm imagining a well-to-do player used to "sophisticated" settings, walking into Forgotten Realms, looking around and uttering "... how charming..." as they clutch their dice bag close to them.

[KorvinStarmast]

The PHB uses "The weave" to explain magic. This is where it came from. I am aware of that.
TBH, I liked the FR somewhat in AD&D 1e, but over time that penny has lost its shine.

[Brookshw]

I am aware of that.
TBH, I liked the FR somewhat in AD&D 1e, but over time that penny has lost its shine.

I feel ya, my interest completely tanked in 2e.

[Rafaelfras]

I am aware of that.
TBH, I liked the FR somewhat in AD&D 1e, but over time that penny has lost its shine.

I got into it on 3rd Ed when I got the setting guide. That book remain for me the best rpg book I've ever had and I was devastated for what they did to it in 4th. It's my home game until this day.
So it's nice to see some insight of the creator of my favorite setting. Specially since we have been discussing magic, schools and etc these past few days


I'm imagining a well-to-do player used to "sophisticated" settings, walking into Forgotten Realms, looking around and uttering "... how charming..." as they clutch their dice bag close to them.


LoL. This forum should have a like button


I feel ya, my interest completely tanked in 2e.


4th Ed destroyed it for me. I have ignored everything from that time

[KorvinStarmast]

I got into it on 3rd Ed when I got the setting guide. That book remain for me the best rpg book I've ever had and was devastated for what they did to it in 4th. It's my home game until this day.
So it's nice to see some insight of the creator of my favorite setting. Specially since we have been discussing magic, schools and etc these past few days Aah, that makes sense. :smallsmile: Glad you get enjoyment out of it.

[Sigreid]

I personally think the weave works best as just one of may ways that mortals try to frame the nature of magic in a way they can understand. Like a modern day working theory, it's not RIGHT buy works well enough to be useful.

[Rafaelfras]

I personally think the weave works best as just one of may ways that mortals try to frame the nature of magic in a way they can understand. Like a modern day working theory, it's not RIGHT buy works well enough to be useful.

Yeah, Ed says himself that there are other ways to do magic, but using the weave is more efficient so people just go back to it instead of trying other methods (and tsr prefer to add more classes then magic systems )

Aah, that makes sense. :smallsmile: Glad you get enjoyment out of it.

Thank you. You are very kind

[TrollCapAmerica]

Weave of magic was just a stupid railroading device Lorraine Willians and Ed Greenwood put in to keep you marching towards the next months book by having their special rules NPCs be able to permantly cut it off from you. Decades later and I still hate what they did with a passion

[Kane0]

I just think its neat that Ed has a youtube channel now apparently

[Rafaelfras]

I just think its neat that Ed has a youtube channel now apparently

Me too. His insights are such a delight for me as a DM. I think is great material for helping DMs with world building

[Schwann145]

The Realms are not D&D. -1 for failing to make that distinction. :smallfurious:

Can't blame anyone for not making that distinction when even WotC can't seem to either. :smallsigh:


Weave of magic was just a stupid railroading device Lorraine Willians and Ed Greenwood put in to keep you marching towards the next months book by having their special rules NPCs be able to permantly cut it off from you. Decades later and I still hate what they did with a passion

Buuuut that hasn't been the case, so I don't understand what you could be worked up about? :smallconfused:

[Chronos]

Quoth Rafaelfras:

The PHB uses "The weave" to explain magic.
...in a sidebar where it specifies the Forgotten Realms.

The spellcasters of the Forgotten Realms call it the Weave and recognize its essence as the goddess Mystra

[PhoenixPhyre]

...in a sidebar where it specifies the Forgotten Realms.

Sort of. The name "the Weave" is the FR addition. But the rest of it applies to all "conforming" (ie that follow that sidebar) settings, at least by default. So every setting has
a) some sort of "interface layer"
b) that is manipulated by mortal casters as part of casting spells
c) and without which spellcasting is normally impossible

The specifics of how it's managed (eg is there a god that gates access?) and how it is conceptualized (eg as "knots in a woven pattern" in FR) differ between settings. But the basic concept is (by the terms of the sidebar at least) universal.

[Psyren]

Sort of. The name "the Weave" is the FR addition. But the rest of it applies to all "conforming" (ie that follow that sidebar) settings, at least by default. So every setting has
a) some sort of "interface layer"
b) that is manipulated by mortal casters as part of casting spells
c) and without which spellcasting is normally impossible

The specifics of how it's managed (eg is there a god that gates access?) and how it is conceptualized (eg as "knots in a woven pattern" in FR) differ between settings. But the basic concept is (by the terms of the sidebar at least) universal.

This. Just because FR has a prominent name for it doesn't mean it's a unique phenomenon. It's literally just the Magic Trait of their plane/sphere.

[icefractal]

Sort of. The name "the Weave" is the FR addition. But the rest of it applies to all "conforming" (ie that follow that sidebar) settings, at least by default. So every setting has
a) some sort of "interface layer"
b) that is manipulated by mortal casters as part of casting spells
c) and without which spellcasting is normally impossibleAnd if you wanted a setting that differed considerably, you'd probably need to change some of the rules as well.

Antimagic Field existing as a spell, for example, means that magic is a separable "thing" you can turn off in a given area without, say, everything inside breaking down. Like IRL, if you "turned off" electromagnetism or the strong nuclear force in a given area, all kinds of things would happen, most of them not conducive to life existing. So the fact that you can be in an AMF and not die (even creatures with inherent magic can do so) implies that magic is an "extra" layer that's not required for the basic functioning of reality.

[PhoenixPhyre]

And if you wanted a setting that differed considerably, you'd probably need to change some of the rules as well.

Antimagic Field existing as a spell, for example, means that magic is a separable "thing" you can turn off in a given area without, say, everything inside breaking down. Like IRL, if you "turned off" electromagnetism or the strong nuclear force in a given area, all kinds of things would happen, most of them not conducive to life existing. So the fact that you can be in an AMF and not die (even creatures with inherent magic can do so) implies that magic is an "extra" layer that's not required for the basic functioning of reality.

Well...or maybe just the description of the spell needs some tweaking. I've personally thought that the description was pants-on-head stupid for a lot of reasons, mostly this stupid idea that magic === spells (and maybe items). It all depends on exactly how you conceptualize the metaphysics[1].

AMF could very well just cut that area off from the interface. Not from magic itself, just make magic inaccessible in that region. Effectively act as an area jammer.

My setting (which does depart from the stock in a lot of places) says that spells and most items function by creating coherent resonances in the background diffuse aether. AMF basically acts as a damper, preventing any resonances from forming in that region. Similarly, dispel magic takes those "frozen" resonances and picks them apart. Counterspell acts as a burst of noise, breaking the resonance before it forms. Concentration is all about channeling energy into the resonance in a slow-and-steady, regulated form (ie the resonance is unstable unless babysat). AMF doesn't remove aether, because that's nonsense--everything in the setting is aether in one form or another. The name is basically just the typical "spell casters think they're cooler and more important than they are really in the broad scheme of things, so they overstate what it's actually doing metaphysically."

Similar explanations with the weave would work almost verbatim. Maybe it makes the threads slippery or something so you can't knot it. Or whatever.

[1] Which is something that most settings just totally ignore, to their strong detriment.

[Rafaelfras]

You don't have to go too far to find places without the weave. Grey hawk, Dragon lance and Dark sun all have very different rules for magic. I don't know about Dragon Lance in 5th edition, but prior to that magic emanated from the moons, or sorcerers could tap the raw magic of the earth, Grey hawk uses the concept of the flux of energy from the positive energy plane to the negative energy plane, in dark sun magic is fuelled by the life force of all life around the caster (preservers learned how to do it without killing everything around them in the process) or from the elemental planes. You can argue that the weave exists in all of them. But they where not created with that concept in mind and don't need it to function.
As for antimagic shell it just nullify magic, ao make it work on anything magic related, spell or not and avoid problems is the best piece advice I can offer

[PhoenixPhyre]

You don't have to go too far to find places without the weave. Grey hawk, Dragon lance and Dark sun all have very different rules for magic. I don't know about Dragon Lance in 5th edition, but prior to that magic emanated from the moons, or sorcerers could tap the raw magic of the earth, Grey hawk uses the concept of the flux of energy from the positive energy plane to the negative energy plane, in dark sun magic is fuelled by the life force of all life around the caster (preservers learned how to do it without killing everything around them in the process) or from the elemental planes. You can argue that the weave exists in all of them. But they where not created with that concept in mind and don't need it to function.
As for antimagic shell it just nullify magic, ao make it work on anything magic related, spell or not and avoid problems is the best piece advice I can offer

Using prior edition lore is a bad idea. Two of those settings have no 5e material, the other has been "adapted" to have a weave-like interface.

[Rafaelfras]

Using prior edition lore is a bad idea. Two of those settings have no 5e material, the other has been "adapted" to have a weave-like interface.

From a world building perspective I don't think is a problem. The weave changed very little from 3rd to 5th (being completely absence in 4th). Forgotten Realms guide used to discuss worlds where the weave doesn't exist and in the OP Ed does address how you can do magic without it.