Formidable sword master using multiple sneak attacks?

[kaith282]

Hello everyone! I need to create a level 20 character for the second part of a very long campaign, and I would like it to be a dexterity based sword master. I thought of him as a very expert martial artist, who stays still focused on the enemy, waiting for the right time to land a fast strike. I like the idea of a character attacking during the enemy's turn. I would like him to be mainly a rogue, or have at least a few levels in it. NO MAGIC ALLOWED! Except for one single item of any rarity, which I thought might be the scimitar of speed (To land a sneak attack with the bonus action and ready another one with a prepared action, then a third one with sentinel or a maneuver maybe). Even though I would like a decent damage output, I really want it to be a character to use with some brain, but I'd also prefer his style to be sustainable in time (not relying too much on consumable resources). How would you build such a character?

Thanks for your help!

[Unoriginal]

Hello everyone! I need to create a level 20 character for the second part of a very long campaign, and I would like it to be a dexterity based sword master. I thought of him as a very expert martial artist, who stays still focused on the enemy, waiting for the right time to land a fast strike. I like the idea of a character attacking during the enemy's turn. I would like him to be mainly a rogue, or have at least a few levels in it. NO MAGIC ALLOWED! Except for one single item of any rarity, which I thought might be the scimitar of speed (To land a sneak attack with the bonus action and ready another one with a prepared action, then a third one with sentinel or a maneuver maybe). Even though I would like a decent damage output, I really want it to be a character to use with some brain, but I'd also prefer his style to be sustainable in time (not relying too much on consumable resources). How would you build such a character?

Thanks for your help!

You could go for a Swashbuckler Rogue with the Sentinel feat.

That way you can rush ahead of your teammates with high initiative, stab a foe, then as one of the foe's buddy tries to rush past you you can also stab them, without needing advantage or a friend within 5ft.

[Gignere]

Hello everyone! I need to create a level 20 character for the second part of a very long campaign, and I would like it to be a dexterity based sword master. I thought of him as a very expert martial artist, who stays still focused on the enemy, waiting for the right time to land a fast strike. I like the idea of a character attacking during the enemy's turn. I would like him to be mainly a rogue, or have at least a few levels in it. NO MAGIC ALLOWED! Except for one single item of any rarity, which I thought might be the scimitar of speed (To land a sneak attack with the bonus action and ready another one with a prepared action, then a third one with sentinel or a maneuver maybe). Even though I would like a decent damage output, I really want it to be a character to use with some brain, but I'd also prefer his style to be sustainable in time (not relying too much on consumable resources). How would you build such a character?

Thanks for your help!

Choose either sentinel or the held attack to sneak attack both uses your reaction so the most you can do is two sneak attacks, no way to do a third one, unless you have something that gives you an extra turn. Only the level 17 thief feature would give you an extra turn. But you’ll have to combo it with sentinel to get the third sneak attack in. You wouldn’t need scimitar of speed to pull it off.

So first turn sneak attack, second turn sneak attack, sentinel triggers third sneak attack.

I guess alternatively with scimitar of speed you can first turn sneak, second turn bonus action sneak attack, use action on second turn to hold to sneak attack with your reaction.

[Dr.Samurai]

Strangebloke has a build in the eccentric builds thread titled “The Veteran” (iirc) and it’s a battle master rogue multiclass that goes for on turn and off turn sneak attacks. May serve as inspiration for what you’re looking for. (On phone right now but will link to it when I can if someone else hasn’t by then.)

[solidork]

You could get 3 sneak attacks per turn with Scout, but it's pretty unlikely that the positioning is going to cooperate for that to happen on a melee build.

Also, you'll need some way to gain proficiency with Scimitars to use Scimitar of Speed.

[DarknessEternal]

Level 17 Scouts just have two.

[Sherlockpwns]

I’d argue for the above sentinel but also add phantom rogue as the go-to for multiple sneak attacks. Well, half sneak attacks. Not really sure it’s very swordmastery though. Swashbuckler is the more 1v1 melee rogue.

The real problem is sentinel really wants a high ac, which means a shield is really nice. So probably a dip into fighter 1 at least.

I’ve always wanted to run a str based rogue, if you wanted to go mostly fighter (rogue 3 / fighter 17) you could whack away at people with a rapier in heavy armor and a shield. Lots of skills for out of combat. Just kind of something unusual.

[Frogreaver]

Thoughts on kensai 3 rogue 17?

[solidork]

Level 17 Scouts just have two.

I meant including a reaction one from Sentinel, or Battlemaster maneuvers. So, per round I guess.

[RogueJK]

Thoughts on kensai 3 rogue 17?

That's a much worse option than either Rogue 20 or Battlemaster or Champion Fighter 3/Rogue 17.

Kensei Monk 3 gets you next to nothing. You're already going to be using your Bonus Action every round for either the Scimitar of Speed's BA attack, the Scout Rogue's Sudden Strike, or other Rogue stuff like Steady Aim/Cunning Action, and you can't Sneak Attack with unarmed strikes anyway, so your BA Martial Arts/Flurry attacks are useless. As a Rogue you can already Cunning Action Dash/Disengage without having to spend a limited resource like Ki, so Step of the Wind doesn't do you any good. Your Martial Arts die is only a d4, so making your Rapier/Scimitar a Monk Weapon/Kensei Weapon doesn't help you out there. Agile Parry could be used in some rounds, if you were to use a Scimitar of Speed and land your BA Sneak Attack first, but an occasional contingent +2 to AC is strictly worse than a Shield's constant +2 to AC, and Scout's BA second Sneak Attack per turn is a better BA use anyway when the opportunity presents itself (two adjacent enemies).

So you're giving up either Rogue 20's +2d6 Sneak Attack, Elusive, ASI, and Stroke of Luck, or else Fighter 3's Fighting Style, Shield proficiency, Action Surge, and either Battlemaster Maneuvers or an expanded Crit range, all to gain... +10' movement, Patient Defense 3x/SR (when you're not otherwise using your BA which will be pretty much never), an occasional +2 to AC from Agile Parry, and the ability to run around without armor.

Not worth it at all.

(If you were dead-set on running around without armor, you could do that with Monk 1/Rogue 19, but that still falls short of Fighter 1/Rogue 19 as far as 1 level dips go...)

[RogueJK]

I’d argue for the above sentinel but also add phantom rogue as the go-to for multiple sneak attacks. Well, half sneak attacks.

It's not even half Sneak Attacks, once you hit Phantom 17. Their Death's Friend ability lets them use Wails of the Grave to deal half SA damage to both the enemy they just hit with their Sneak Attack and a second enemy within 30'. That's a full additional Sneak Attack equivalent.

For example, a Phantom Rogue 20 has 10d6 Sneak Attack. So the 1st Enemy takes 10d6 from the Sneak Attack plus another +5d6 from Wails of the Grave, while the 2nd Enemy takes +5d6 from Wails of the Grave. That's 20d6 total, or 2x your 10d6 Sneak Attack.

(And since Wails of the Grave's half damage is rounded up, even a Phantom Rogue 17 will be able to do 19d6: 9d6+5d6 and 5d6.)


And unlike the Scout Rogue's Sudden Strike, Wails of the Grave auto-hits (no attack roll needed), doesn't use up your Bonus Action, and doesn't require the two enemies to be directly adjacent. You can still use the Scimitar of Speed, for a BA attack that doubles you chances of landing a Sneak Attack in a turn and therefore triggering Wails of the Grave.

So while it's getting a bit away from the "sword master" theme, and while it's not technically "magic" it is a magical effect, Phantom Rogue is the more reliable way to land effectively "Two Sneak Attacks" on your turn, usable in more situations than Scout's Sudden Strike. The downside compared to Sudden Strike is that it's only usable a limited number of times per day, based on your Proficiency Bonus plus the number of additional Soul Trinkets you're able to collect and are willing to use to trigger it.


Therefore, as long as you're okay with Wails of the Grave's magical damage versus strictly sword-based damage, my vote goes to Phantom Rogue 17/Battlemaster Fighter 3. Something like this:

Half Elf Phantom Rogue 17/Battlemaster Fighter 3
STR 8
DEX 15+1
CON 14+2
INT 10
WIS 15+1
CHA 8
ASIs: Elven Accuracy (17 DEX) at 4, Slasher (18 DEX) at 8, 20 DEX at 10, Sentinel at 12, Lucky at 16

Scimitar of Speed
AC 19 (Studded Leather Armor and Shield)
Fighting Style: Fighting Initiate (Precision)
Maneuvers: Riposte, Brace, Ambush, Precision
Maneuver Dice: 4x 1d8 + 1x 1d6, per Short Rest
Sneak Attack: 9d6
Wails of the Grave: 5d6+5d6, 6x/Long Rest (Plus plan on frequently collecting Soul Trinkets, so you can burn them for additional Wails of the Grave uses.)

You have three options for off-turn Reaction Sneak Attacks: Brace if an enemy closes in with you, Riposte if an enemy misses you with an attack, and Sentinel if an adjacent enemy attacks someone other than you.

[DarknessEternal]

Nevermind.

[kaith282]

It's not even half Sneak Attacks, once you hit Phantom 17. Their Death's Friend ability lets them use Wails of the Grave to deal half SA damage to both the enemy they just hit with their Sneak Attack and a second enemy within 30'. That's a full additional Sneak Attack equivalent.

For example, a Phantom Rogue 20 has 10d6 Sneak Attack. So the 1st Enemy takes 10d6 from the Sneak Attack plus another +5d6 from Wails of the Grave, while the 2nd Enemy takes +5d6 from Wails of the Grave. That's 20d6 total, or 2x your 10d6 Sneak Attack.

(And since Wails of the Grave's half damage is rounded up, even a Phantom Rogue 17 will be able to do 19d6: 9d6+5d6 and 5d6.)


And unlike the Scout Rogue's Sudden Strike, Wails of the Grave auto-hits (no attack roll needed), doesn't use up your Bonus Action, and doesn't require the two enemies to be directly adjacent. You can still use the Scimitar of Speed, for a BA attack that doubles you chances of landing a Sneak Attack in a turn and therefore triggering Wails of the Grave.

So while it's getting a bit away from the "sword master" theme, and while it's not technically "magic" it is a magical effect, Phantom Rogue is the more reliable way to land effectively "Two Sneak Attacks" on your turn, usable in more situations than Scout's Sudden Strike. The downside compared to Sudden Strike is that it's only usable a limited number of times per day, based on your Proficiency Bonus plus the number of additional Soul Trinkets you're able to collect and are willing to use to trigger it.


Therefore, as long as you're okay with Wails of the Grave's magical damage versus strictly sword-based damage, my vote goes to Phantom Rogue 17/Battlemaster Fighter 3. Something like this:

Half Elf Phantom Rogue 17/Battlemaster Fighter 3
STR 8
DEX 15+1
CON 14+2
INT 10
WIS 15+1
CHA 8
ASIs: Elven Accuracy (17 DEX) at 4, Slasher (18 DEX) at 8, 20 DEX at 10, Sentinel at 12, Lucky at 16

Scimitar of Speed
AC 19 (Studded Leather Armor and Shield)
Fighting Style: Fighting Initiate (Precision)
Maneuvers: Riposte, Brace, Ambush, Precision
Maneuver Dice: 4x 1d8 + 1x 1d6, per Short Rest
Sneak Attack: 9d6
Wails of the Grave: 5d6+5d6, 6x/Long Rest (Plus plan on frequently collecting Soul Trinkets, so you can burn them for additional Wails of the Grave uses.)

You have three options for off-turn Reaction Sneak Attacks: Brace if an enemy closes in with you, Riposte if an enemy misses you with an attack, and Sentinel if an adjacent enemy attacks someone other than you.

this one seems pretty nice, but still I can't really access magic with this character for lore reasons, so it's pretty unfeasible OR I might try to reflavor the class. 30 feet are a long way to cover with a sword though :/

[Corran]

Hello everyone! I need to create a level 20 character for the second part of a very long campaign, and I would like it to be a dexterity based sword master. I thought of him as a very expert martial artist, who stays still focused on the enemy, waiting for the right time to land a fast strike. I like the idea of a character attacking during the enemy's turn. I would like him to be mainly a rogue, or have at least a few levels in it. NO MAGIC ALLOWED! Except for one single item of any rarity, which I thought might be the scimitar of speed (To land a sneak attack with the bonus action and ready another one with a prepared action, then a third one with sentinel or a maneuver maybe). Even though I would like a decent damage output, I really want it to be a character to use with some brain, but I'd also prefer his style to be sustainable in time (not relying too much on consumable resources). How would you build such a character?

Thanks for your help!
In melee? I see two ways.

One is to get sentinel and aim at fighting side by side with an ally. You'll need that ally to be tough enough to withstand enough of enemy blows, because you need enemy blows being directed at your ally in order to use sentinel for off turn sneak attack. And at the same time you need to be a much less attractive target than your ally, so that (at least some of) your enemies do in fact aim at your ally instead of you. Which is no easy task, if enemies going after your ally means they get a free sneak attack from you every turn while at the same time you cannot count on your reaction (shield, uncanny dodge, whatever) to boost your own defense. You could go with some barbarian levels for rage, but personally I prefer finding some way of boosting my effective AC and grabbing riposte (ideally from multiclassing into battlemaster fighter) at the same time. In the ideal scenario you dont end up spending a single superiority die on riposte, you just have it as a deterant against enemies focusing you down, in the sense that no matter whom they'll target (hyperbole) they still get a reaction attack coming their way. Of course, riposte burns superiority dice while sentinel does not, but hopefully that distinction is not easy enough for most melee brute enemies to make so they wont aim at attritioning you. Base effective AC is boosted by grabbing proficiency with shields, and after that by hopefully finding some way to inflict disadvantage on the enemies' attacks against you, or by giving them a miss chance (eg blur, mirror image -though beware that it can burn really fast, protection from evil, etc). With no magic (but with magic items) allowed, perhaps you could look at a magic item for improving your defenses (with emphasis on AC). As for the melee buddy, the first class that comes to mind is a barbarian, but perhaps there are some nice synergies with a moon druid.

The second way is to create the conditions for forcing OA's from enemies. Rogues get blindsense at 13. Now, this feature can be great, if you can use it to create advantage for yourself (both during your own turn and the off turn), but also if you can use it to hide and be spared some attacks (which can be good if no ally, or if a better suited ally can act as an enemy attacks magnet), and also if you can use it to position yourself for an OA after having been successfully hidden. To do all this of course, you need to combine blindsense with a way to create a heavily obscured area. Since spells are out but magic items are not, you could use something like an eversmoking bottle to that effect (though I am guessing there must be better items if you go higher in rarity; perhaps even some items allowing you summons with similar abilities). Else, if you have the option (ie if it's not against the rules), you could grab something like magic initiate for for cloud and booming blade, or play a race like drow or tiefling who have innate casts of darkness. Unlike the first approach, this does not hinder your mobility or make you too much of a sitting duck (to the point that you have to look for ways to boost your defenses really high), but it does rely even more or party cooperation (even though the first requires a very dedicated melee buddy), which can be a great thing.

Alternatively, you could simply rely on something like a scimitar of speed, or boots of haste (speed?), but beware that in order to make the most of a reaction attack, you will need to sacrifice positioning, as you cannot sneak attack with a melee weapon from further than 10' (and in the case of sentinel, you need to be within 5 feet specifically). And sacrificing positioning can be scary for rogues, even moreso if they cannot rely on the reaction for mitigating the danger. So take the difficulty of your average(?) encounter into consideration when thinking of any such approaches if you want to maximize your results.

[Psyren]

this one seems pretty nice, but still I can't really access magic with this character for lore reasons, so it's pretty unfeasible OR I might try to reflavor the class. 30 feet are a long way to cover with a sword though :/

So to be clear, "no magic" doesn't just mean no spells, it means nothing supernatural/magical of any kind, including things like ki?

If that's the case I think some flavor of Rogue/Fighter (e.g. Scout + Battle Master) is your best bet as suggested upthread.

[Damon_Tor]

Battlemaster.

The Riposte and Brace maneuvers give you exactly what you're looking for I think.

[kaith282]

Battlemaster.

The Riposte and Brace maneuvers give you exactly what you're looking for I think.
It makes me use my reaction though, which is exactly what sentinel does. I prefer positioning rather than having a more reliable but fast-to-consume source. I like maneuvers for the "expert fighter" feeling, but I'd rather use them differently even though I do have Riposte and Brace in my list of favorite ones. I'm starting to think this is not suitable to make him fight the way I like and still have a decent amout of damage output. I think I'll start looking for something else too :(

[RogueJK]

It makes me use my reaction though, which is exactly what sentinel does.

The thing is, there's not always going to be competition. Riposte and Brace allow you more options to reliably gain a Reaction attack for off-turn Sneak Attack, beyond just the limited circumstances where Sentinel's Reaction attack applies.

You won't always have another nearby ally that an enemy with 5' chooses to attack instead every round. (Sentinel)

You won't always have an enemy close into melee range with you every round. (Brace)

You won't always have an enemy miss you with an attack every round. (Riposte)


But between those three varying options, it's likely that one of those situations will occur in many combat rounds. Or, you may end up needing to spend your Reaction on something like Uncanny Dodge that round instead. It's good to have a wide variety of options, rather than locking yourself into just one narrow set of circumstances.

You just don't want to directly duplicate abilities. For example, if there was a Maneuver that allowed you to spend a maneuver dice to make a Reaction attack when an enemy within 5' attacks an ally, then yeah, you wouldn't want that... because it's exactly what Sentinel does.

[Psyren]

The thing is, there's not always going to be competition. Riposte and Brace allow you more options to reliably gain a Reaction attack for off-turn Sneak Attack, beyond just the limited circumstances where Sentinel's Reaction attack applies.

You won't always have another nearby ally that an enemy with 5' chooses to attack instead every round. (Sentinel)

You won't always have an enemy close into melee range with you every round. (Brace)

You won't always have an enemy miss you with an attack every round. (Riposte)

+1 to this, especially since you have a "no magic" rule - you will want multiple ways to trigger your reaction SA. Some of the usual tricks for reliably triggering Sentinel, like Mirror Image won't work.

[kaith282]

The thing is, there's not always going to be competition. Riposte and Brace allow you more options to reliably gain a Reaction attack for off-turn Sneak Attack, beyond just the limited circumstances where Sentinel's Reaction attack applies.

You won't always have another nearby ally that an enemy with 5' chooses to attack instead every round. (Sentinel)

You won't always have an enemy close into melee range with you every round. (Brace)

You won't always have an enemy miss you with an attack every round. (Riposte)


But between those three varying options, it's likely that one of those situations will occur in many combat rounds. Or, you may end up needing to spend your Reaction on something like Uncanny Dodge that round instead. It's good to have a wide variety of options, rather than locking yourself into just one narrow set of circumstances.

You just don't want to directly duplicate abilities. For example, if there was a Maneuver that allowed you to spend a maneuver dice to make a Reaction attack when an enemy within 5' attacks an ally, then yeah, you wouldn't want that... because it's exactly what Sentinel does.

Oh no I think I explained myself so poorly. I mean, I have all the intention, if I go on with this build, to have an alternative like riposte and/or brace in my pocket, but I mean I also wanted to improve my damage with one more way to sneak again in the same round. I totally want to be independent from the situation so I agree with you that I might want a variety of choices on how to use my reaction. I just need something more, because this way I'm so so so below the average damage of the party, and I didn't want to just get the "strong build". Just something really fun that can keep pace with other party members.

[Gignere]

Oh no I think I explained myself so poorly. I mean, I have all the intention, if I go on with this build, to have an alternative like riposte and/or brace in my pocket, but I mean I also wanted to improve my damage with one more way to sneak again in the same round. I totally want to be independent from the situation so I agree with you that I might want a variety of choices on how to use my reaction. I just need something more, because this way I'm so so so below the average damage of the party, and I didn't want to just get the "strong build". Just something really fun that can keep pace with other party members.

If a rogue can consistently sneak attack 2x a round very few builds can match your DPR. If you go thief / battlemaster you can potentially sneak attack 3x a round. There are no other builds that can consistently beat this kind of DPR essentially resourceless DPR.

[Frogreaver]

I just realized that a rogue can bonus action attack with the Scimitar of Speed without taking the attack action. So looks like you don't even need sentinel with that bad boy. Just Bonus action attack. Ready your action to attack. Wham - 2 sneak attacks every turn.


That's a much worse option than either Rogue 20 or Battlemaster or Champion Fighter 3/Rogue 17.

Kensei Monk 3 gets you next to nothing. You're already going to be using your Bonus Action every round for either the Scimitar of Speed's BA attack, the Scout Rogue's Sudden Strike, or other Rogue stuff like Steady Aim/Cunning Action, and you can't Sneak Attack with unarmed strikes anyway, so your BA Martial Arts/Flurry attacks are useless. As a Rogue you can already Cunning Action Dash/Disengage without having to spend a limited resource like Ki, so Step of the Wind doesn't do you any good. Your Martial Arts die is only a d4, so making your Rapier/Scimitar a Monk Weapon/Kensei Weapon doesn't help you out there. Agile Parry could be used in some rounds, if you were to use a Scimitar of Speed and land your BA Sneak Attack first, but an occasional contingent +2 to AC is strictly worse than a Shield's constant +2 to AC, and Scout's BA second Sneak Attack per turn is a better BA use anyway when the opportunity presents itself (two adjacent enemies).

So you're giving up either Rogue 20's +2d6 Sneak Attack, Elusive, ASI, and Stroke of Luck, or else Fighter 3's Fighting Style, Shield proficiency, Action Surge, and either Battlemaster Maneuvers or an expanded Crit range, all to gain... +10' movement, Patient Defense 3x/SR (when you're not otherwise using your BA which will be pretty much never), an occasional +2 to AC from Agile Parry, and the ability to run around without armor.

Not worth it at all.

(If you were dead-set on running around without armor, you could do that with Monk 1/Rogue 19, but that still falls short of Fighter 1/Rogue 19 as far as 1 level dips go...)

My thoughts -

Trying to get extra sneak attacks via sentinel will leave the Rogue being focused fairly regularly. He will need good defenses and will often need movement speed to stay near allies.

Kensai helps on both of those fronts. Can hit 20 AC with max dex and wisdom. Can often hit 22 AC with a bonus action unarmed attack. Or can bonus action dodge for 20 AC + disadvantage. The 10 extra movement speed will help close the distance without using your bonus action - or if you do you can cover alot more ground. Positioning is vital for a Sentinel using Rogue.

Battlemaster is clearly the more offensive option and can hit 20 AC with defensive style and a shield, but won't go above that without magic items. Also, he's slow, unless using a bonus action for positioning, but then no bonus action attack for sneak attack.

Out of these 2, I think in actual play that Kensai/Rogue would feel stronger than battlemaster rogue.

[Corran]

Trying to get extra sneak attacks via sentinel will leave the Rogue being focused fairly regularly. He will need good defenses and will often need movement speed to stay near allies.
Why the need for movement? Do you perhaps picture the rogue darting accross the battlefield to position next to an ally that was unexpectedly/unfortunately engaged by an enemy and you want to draw that attention (or help bring that enemy down)? Or is it something else I am missing?

[Talionis]

I will throw out that Monk Deflect Missile can trigger Sneak Attack.

[CTurbo]

Scout 17, Battlemaster 3

Between Sentinel, Riposte, and Brace, you'll have pretty reliable methods of pulling off an extra Sneak Attack with your Reaction. As mentioned above though, being able to have 2 enemies on your turn that both qualify for Sneak Attack damage could prove problematic.

This is the only way I know of that *could* net you 3 Sneak Attacks per round though and would be a really solid character in general.

You'll have 5 ASIs

1. +2 Dex
2. Max Dex out either by +2 Dex or take a +1 Dex half feat like Piercer or Slasher
3. Sentinel
4. Mobile
5. Alert


Scimitar of Speed is mostly useless here as the 17th level Scout already has a reliable way to attack with it's Bonus Action.



Another option that would probably deal more reliable damage, but lacks the nova capability would be...

Swashbuckler 15, Battlemaster 5

Same maneuvers and feats/ASIs as above, but this time use the Scimitar of Speed. You'd almost always be able to get at least 2 Sneak Attacks per turn while also having more attacks in general.

[Gignere]

This is the only way I know of that *could* net you 3 Sneak Attacks per round though and would be a really solid character in general.
Scimitar of Speed is mostly useless here as the 17th level Scout already has a reliable way to attack with it's Bonus Action.

Thief 17 feature can do it too and better, because it actually gives you another turn 10 initiative counts later. From what I can tell it actually gives you another bonus action, which is also limited once per turn. So scimitar of speed bonus action and you can still use another bonus action on your second turn, like disengage.

[da newt]

The Thief's extra turn on the first round is great for an opening round nova and gets you an extra BA and reaction too, but only works the first round of combat. (but it could yield 4 SA vs one target w/ SoS which could be huge).

Scout 17 seems the best most reliable way to get 2 SA / turn an unlimited # of times / day, but it does use your BA and you still have to hit both times and have 2 targets available. The 2 target requirement is it's greatest limitation.

It would also stack w/ reaction attacks via sentinel, BM moves, order cleric etc. and works just fine without needing the scimitar o' speed so you can cherry pick the perfect weapon. (but Scout + Scimitar doesn't really stack)

Phantom 17 seems to be the most reliable / fool proof way to get 2x SA damage on one turn and there is no action cost, but is limited to proff/day + trinkets and you need 2 targets (without 2 targets it's just 1.5 SA).

W/ the scimitar of speed you can ready an action to attack next round and BA attack an unlimited number of times and only requires one target, but it does cost your reaction and BA.

The Phantom's wail can be stacked w/ the scimitar for a full nova 4 SA damage / round which should be very useful (or 3 SA if just one target).

If you are using the scimitar and readied action as your go to, then you don't really need to spend an ASI on Sent or lvls on BM fighter so you could go straight 20 rogue for elusive, stroke of luck, +1 ASI, +1 SA dice.

They will all work. I'd probably go Phantom 20 w/ SoS.

* and of course you'll still need a buddy w/in melee of your target or ADV for SA (unless you go swashbuckler)

[Gignere]

The Phantom's wail can be stacked w/ the scimitar for a full nova 4 SA damage / round which should be very useful (or 3 SA if just one target).

If you are using the scimitar and readied action as your go to, then you don't really need to spend an ASI on Sent or lvls on BM fighter so you could go straight 20 rogue for elusive, stroke of luck, +1 ASI, +1 SA dice.

They will all work. I'd probably go Phantom 20 w/ SoS.

* and of course you'll still need a buddy w/in melee of your target or ADV for SA (unless you go swashbuckler)

Phantom can’t do 4 SA worth of damage, because Wails is on your turn only. The no Wails on off turn SA, so 2.5 - 3 SA worth per round with SOS.

[ATHATH]

this one seems pretty nice, but still I can't really access magic with this character for lore reasons, so it's pretty unfeasible OR I might try to reflavor the class. 30 feet are a long way to cover with a sword though :/
Could be flavored as something like an SC2 dark templar's Shadow Fury ability.

[strangebloke]

Strangebloke has a build in the eccentric builds thread titled “The Veteran” (iirc) and it’s a battle master rogue multiclass that goes for on turn and off turn sneak attacks. May serve as inspiration for what you’re looking for. (On phone right now but will link to it when I can if someone else hasn’t by then.)

Thanks for remembering me!

Here it is: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25419696&postcount=1401

And yeah my rec is swashbuckler. It's very in-flavor, it gives you lots of good bonuses that also stack with BM bonuses (+CHA to initiative on top of ambush and good dex is YUM) and allows you to really consistently get double sneak attack. Double SA is very very strong, and with sentinel + normal reacition attacks + riposte/brace you'll be getting that reaction attack almost every turn, provided somewhat regular short rests. You can even do something like sneak attack + action surge (ready attack for next turn.)

Getting more than double is very hard. The only way to do that AFAIK without anything supernatural is 17+ level thief doing something like [action SA]+[reaction SA]+[second turn SA]+[second reaction SA]. Which is great! But level 17 lol.

In UA there's tunnel fighter which allows you can set up a wombo combo with the party bard where you get behind a horde of enemies, and then the bard casts fear and makes them all dash straight past you. But that's hard to set up. Very very very hilarious though.

The nice thing about this build is that it doesn't compete with the rogue's bonus action or action surge. So you can use action surge (or the fighting style) to boost damage in a more conventional way and you can do all the good things rogues typically do. You'll have decent defenses because of shield proficiency via your fighter levels, and race choice is WIDE open. Only thing is you probably don't want a race like goliath because it's another defensive reaction you can't always use. The "no magic" rule does bite since shadar kai and earth genasi are among your best options for a powerful defensive feature that doesn't use a reaction. Bugbear is a great offensive option and I do love me some (fizban's) dragonborn.

[da newt]

Phantom can’t do 4 SA worth of damage, because Wails is on your turn only. The no Wails on off turn SA, so 2.5 - 3 SA worth per round with SOS.

Whoops - you are right.