Casting from an ally

[Shinoskay]

I remember reading that there are ways to cast using someone, or something, else as the source of the spell....

but I cant remember what does that.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Inevitability]

Trickery Devotion lets you create an illusionary double you can cast from?

[Crake]

Trickery Devotion lets you create an illusionary double you can cast from?

The project image spell also does this.

[Ashtagon]

This is quite an original variant on "cast from mana" and "cast from hp". It doesn't seem like something that a Good-aligned PC should have access to though.

iirc, there was a major villain in one of the classic D&D (one of the M-series or I-series modules) that did exactly this.

[Crake]

This is quite an original variant on "cast from mana" and "cast from hp". It doesn't seem like something that a Good-aligned PC should have access to though.

iirc, there was a major villain in one of the classic D&D (one of the M-series or I-series modules) that did exactly this.

I dont think they meant the power source of the spell, but rather using someone else as the point of origin of the spell, like how you can use your familiar to deliver touch spells

[Gorthawar]

Runesmith level 3 gets the Share Runes ability allowing him to prepare spells that can be cast by someone else. It's not quite what you wanted I guess but similar.

[Fero]

Magic Jar and other forms of possession let a caster cast from someone else. Chardalyn, Spell Storing weapons and simular receptacles can mimic this effect. Arcane Hierophants can cast through plants and animals.

[Tzardok]

Runesmith level 3 gets the Share Runes ability allowing him to prepare spells that can be cast by someone else. It's not quite what you wanted I guess but similar.

In a similiar vein, the Voudan, a base class from the 3rd party Ravenloft books, stores his prepared spell in items called gris-gris which he can lend to his allies, allowing them to cast in his stead (with reduced caster level).

[Darg]

Imbue with Spell Ability is a spell that allows another to cast your spells.

[Fero]

Imbue with Spell Ability is a spell that allows another to cast your spells.

On the same note, Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability.

[Shinoskay]

This isnt about action economy. I may end up with an incorporeal character, perhaps even on the ethereal plane.

I need a way to cast from my allies, though trickery domain is fascinating.

[Crake]

This isnt about action economy. I may end up with an incorporeal character, perhaps even on the ethereal plane.

I need a way to cast from my allies, though trickery domain is fascinating.

incorporeal characters can cast spells just as normal, though if you're ethereal, that's a whole separate issue. Unless you're a ghost that can manifest on the material, casting from ethereal->material is very difficult, if it's even possible.

[KillianHawkeye]

This isnt about action economy. I may end up with an incorporeal character, perhaps even on the ethereal plane.

I need a way to cast from my allies, though trickery domain is fascinating.

I would suggest that you be extremely specific and clear about what you're asking now. What exactly do you mean by "cast from (your) allies"?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Any psionic manifester with a psicrystal can manifest any power he knows using his pet rock as the origin point of the power, starting at level 1 for powers with a range of personal, level 3 for powers with a range of touch, and level 15 for powers with any other range. Of course, if the Improved Psicrystal feat actually functioned as intended, it would reduce the above levels, but as written, that part doesn't function at all.

Have an ally carry your lithobuddy around, and you can manifest from his (or her) position. Not terribly useful prior to level 15, unless you're manifesting things like null psionics field on a friend who doesn't care as much about antimagic as whatever it is you're fighting, such as a barbarian friend trying to grapple a lich.

[Fero]

incorporeal characters can cast spells just as normal, though if you're ethereal, that's a whole separate issue. Unless you're a ghost that can manifest on trhe material, casting from ethereal->material is very difficult, if it's even possible.

If you are willing to worship an evil death God the Tabard of the Disembodied (MIC) lets you cast from the Ethereal onto the prime a few times per day. Planar Ring Gates (PlH) also work but are very expensive.

[Tzardok]

The metamagic feat Transdimensional Spell can be interpreted as allowing Ethereal casters to affect Material targets. The Benefits section only talks about affecting coexistent planes from the Material, but the basic description says: "You can cast spells that affect targets lurking in coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the spell's area," so it's possible your GM will rule in your favour.

[Inevitability]

The metamagic feat Transdimensional Spell can be interpreted as allowing Ethereal casters to affect Material targets. The Benefits section only talks about affecting coexistent planes from the Material, but the basic description says: "You can cast spells that affect targets lurking in coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the spell's area," so it's possible your GM will rule in your favour.

A feat's one-sentence description should not be considered to hold much weight over the actual rules text.



Benefit

A transdimensional spell has full, normal effect upon incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal Plane or Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an extradimensional space in the area of effect. Such creatures include ethereal creatures, creatures that are blinking or shadow walking, manifested ghosts, and creatures within the extradimensional space of a rope trick or portable hole. You must be able to perceive a creature to target it with a spell, but you do not need to perceive a creature to catch it in the area of a burst, cone, emanation, or spread. A transdimensional spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

At no point the actual benefit section of the spell talks about material creatures. "Targeting the ethereal from the material, but not the other way around" is hardly weird; visual effects between those planes are only in that direction also.

[Tzardok]

A feat's one-sentence description should not be considered to hold much weight over the actual rules text.


I have seen some feats before where the one-sentence description included the actual benefit and the Benefits section only included clarifications.


At no point the actual benefit section of the spell talks about material creatures.

I know. That's why I said the GM may possibly interprete it that way.


"Targeting the ethereal from the material, but not the other way around" is hardly weird; visual effects between those planes are only in that direction also.

On the other hand, targetting the Shadow or extradimensional spaces from the Material is practically unprecedented. If you can cross those borders from one side, why not from the other? And if you can cross those borders from both sides, why not the even more permeable border of the Ethereal?

[SangoProduction]

Not what you're thinking of.
The Elementalist subclass: Twinsoul Elementalist from spheres of power grants you an elemental companion, from whom you cast your destruction spells at massively improved efficacy.

[Darg]

I have seen some feats before where the one-sentence description included the actual benefit and the Benefits section only included clarifications.

Proficiencies, weapon focus, double wand wielder, heighten spell, etc. The plain text is not a description. It's simply what the feat does in, well, plain text. Many feats simply don't work if the plain text is only taken as fluff.

[Fero]

Proficiencies, weapon focus, double wand wielder, heighten spell, etc. The plain text is not a description. It's simply what the feat does in, well, plain text. Many feats simply don't work if the plain text is only taken as fluff.

I think the issue boils down to: (1) drafter intent; and (2) what makes sense for the game world. In this case, the description suggests the drafters intended Transdimensional Spell to work across coexistant planar boundaries but the description only discusses crossing from the Material to the Shadow/Ethereal (the only issue that would matter to 90% of players). Does this mean it does not allow spells to cross from Shadow/Ethereal to the Material? I would personally rule that it does prevent such use but reasonable DMs could disagree. Second is the question of how things are supposed to work in the game world. I could certainly see a DM concluding that crossing Material--> Ethereal is the same as crossing Ethereal--> Material. That does not mean the DM should allow Transdimensial Spells to cross from Ethereal to Material, but rather that a valid argument for such use exists.

[Darg]

I think the issue boils down to: (1) drafter intent; and (2) what makes sense for the game world. In this case, the description suggests the drafters intended Transdimensional Spell to work across coexistant planar boundaries but the description only discusses crossing from the Material to the Shadow/Ethereal (the only issue that would matter to 90% of players). Does this mean it does not allow spells to cross from Shadow/Ethereal to the Material? I would personally rule that it does prevent such use but reasonable DMs could disagree. Second is the question of how things are supposed to work in the game world. I could certainly see a DM concluding that crossing Material--> Ethereal is the same as crossing Ethereal--> Material. That does not mean the DM should allow Transdimensial Spells to cross from Ethereal to Material, but rather that a valid argument for such use exists.

You're talking about extrapolating the "normal" text to the intent and meaning of the rest of the feat. I don't think it's very fair to do so when it's quite possible the interaction could be ethereal <-> shadow instead. The normal text just tries to give a basic understanding of the drawback of not having the feat. An example would be the endurance feat. The normal line doesn't account for times when it isn't possible to be exhausted. Exotic weapon proficiency doesn't account for dwarven waraxe and bastard sword. Etc.

[Golbarg]

I don't think it will work for an ethereal character, but the Deceptive Spell metamagic from Cityscape seems to go in the right direction.