Building a Baby Summoner

[Cygnia]

So, designing a new toon for a low level 3.5 FR game and I've decided to try my hand with a Savage Bard playing with Greenbound Summoning (LEoF is an approved source & I already told the GM my interest in that feat). I'm looking over at this handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) and this one (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?527203-Summoning-Handbook&p=22092940#post22092940) as well. Both are very comprehensive.

My big thing is, order of feats chosen. Obviously, SF: Conjuration & Augment Summoning are early picks. No flaws allowed, but the GM is granting bonus feats, so with a human character, I will have 7 feats with a 3rd lvl character.

Eberron books are not allowed, so no Ashbound Summoning (or, bard-wise Music of Growth and the like there). Likewise, there aren't any human FR gods under the Summoner Domain, so I don't know if I could justify getting Arcane Disciple from Comp. Div. I see the cases for Extend Spell or Metamagic School Focus but, as only a lvl 3 bard at this time, I don't know how useful they'd be at this stage of the character build.

I am hoping to spec into Green Whisperer (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/general/greenwhisperer.shtml) should things progress (waiting to hear back from the GM on that end first).

Like I said, the above handbooks are very useful, but they tend to lack info on the beginning levels of summoners.

(Yes, I know Druid is OP Summoner Gawd, but I like going the savage bard route here)

[Inevitability]

With so many feats, Obtain Familiar into Improved Familiar might be worth it?

Disguise Spell might be good if you are in a lot of social situations or otherwise can pass as an ordinary musician. When thornbrush-summoning crocodiles appear out of nowhere, nobody suspects the guy playing a lute in the corner!

Spell Focus Conjuration into Cloudy Conjuration might also be worth it with your overabundance of feats. Pop the smoke next to your summons, have them attack, and then make them do a 5 ft. step into the smoke to get concealment, or just drop it on the enemy if the summon has blindsight or you don't intend on attacking them this turn.

edit: Melodic Casting is good as well to cut down on skill requirements!

[ShurikVch]

How about Rashemi Elemental Summoning?

[Cygnia]

Interested in it, probably for later in the leveling build if I can convince the GM. (My character isn't Rashemi)

[Remuko]

Interested in it, probably for later in the leveling build if I can convince the GM. (My character isn't Rashemi)

so is your baby summoner a baby who summons? or do you summon babies? :confused:

[Inevitability]

Also just realized that if you're human, Able Learner is almost never bad, and if you want to go into Green Whisperer it'll make it easier to keep boosting your favorite bard skills.

[Cygnia]

"Baby" in terms of experience level. As in, she's only level 3. :smallwink:

[Cygnia]

I'm considering picking up Extra Music just to have something to fall back on when I'm out of spells (and potentially use that to help fuel Lyric Spell later on down the line). Also snagged Melodic Casting so I don't have to worry about Concentration too much.

Just not a big fan of the bookkeeping when it comes to familiars.

GM has given the nod for Green Whisperer...is speccing into Sublime Chord PrC further down worth it?

[Rebel7284]

Versatile Spellcaster to greatly increase the number of higher level spell slots you get?
Also, don't you need the Green Ear feat to affect your summons with music?

[Anthrowhale]

Are you sure you don't want to play a druid instead? (or a spontaneous druid?) Having an extra level of summons initially is a big deal. and you could potentially pick up some bard later (or heartfire fanner).

The duration of summons at low levels is important. You might consider extend spell + versatile spellcaster where it's situationally useful to have one spell last twice as long rather than two spells. Methods for increasing caster level are also important. It looks like planar touchstone [catalogs of enlightenment[Summoner]] may be relevant later.

[Bohandas]

so is your baby summoner a baby who summons? or do you summon babies? :confused:
That was my impression too. It sounds a bit like it means someone who gets around

[eggynack]

"Baby" in terms of experience level. As in, she's only level 3. :smallwink:
Deeply tragic given i just found out how to do the other thing. Aberration wild shape into a genocid (DrM 281, 92), and you gain the ability "throw spawn". Which, as the name indicates, has you throw the babies stored in your stomach at your enemies, whereupon they either return to you, or burrow into a nearby corpse (either a fresh one or one they produce by killing a helpless creature). Then they spend a week growing into a new genocid. You also get to spit snakes at your enemies. Snakes that are just naturally stored in your mouth. It's really something. Add on great old master neogi (LoM, 91), with its ability to produce endless tiny aberrations, and maybe toss in boneleaf (HoH, 143) or deepspawn (LEoF, 166) to make use of their bizarrely natural creature summoning, and you can make a whole thing out of whatever the hell you want to call all of that. Arguably the central point here is that people ask what your aim is as a character, you say you're a summoner, and then, as they are midway through asking whether you took greenbound or rashemi elemental summoning, you throw your children at their face.

[Cygnia]

Versatile Spellcaster to greatly increase the number of higher level spell slots you get?
Also, don't you need the Green Ear feat to affect your summons with music?

Capstone for Green Whisperer (only 5 levels) is Green Ear for free.

[Rebel7284]

Capstone for Green Whisperer (only 5 levels) is Green Ear for free.

Ah, I see. That is a full 7 levels away though!
Although if you expect the campaign to go to high levels, that might be fine, it's not like you're weak at low levels with how ridiculous Greenbound is. :smallsmile:


so is your baby summoner a baby who summons? or do you summon babies? :confused:

I mean,
1. Play a satyr
2. Create a fast time plane with genesis with 1 month there = 1 round on the material plane.
3. Perform (sex) for Inspire Courage.
4. Plane shift
5. Wait 9 rounds
6. Plane shift
7. Profit!

Easy. :smallbiggrin:

[Crake]

Keep in mind that the original author of greenbound summoning intended for it to be a +2 metamagic feat, not to just apply willy nilly to all summons, but the publishing got rushed and they never released an errata for it.