Playing an awakened bonzai tree, the other LA 0 tiny race

[Soranar]

A druid awakened a bonzai tree to have it fetch something for him in a mage's tower then left him to his fate

(think of a certain robot that was created to pass the butter)

I want to play that tree

I discussed it with my DM and he allowed me a 16 pts buy between my 3 mental stats, the rest is fixed like the spell indicates.
I have limbs but no dexterous hand so I need surrogate spellcasting to cast spells
if I want to use a weapon I'll need it attached to me somehow (like armor spikes or the like)

Tiny
60 ft land speed (multiple legs due to roots), 30 ft swim speed (made of wood)

STR 8
DEX 14
CON -
INT
WIS
CHA

Hardness 5 (made of wood, better than nothing)
Slam attack for 1d3 damage (better than nothing)
Plant immunities (no polymorph but wildshape seems to work from what I've been reading)
energy

What would you play?

I'm thinking a manifester of some sort to use vigor to keep me alive (not having a CON score is hard on the hitpoints) and I don't need surrogate spellcasting

A stalwart battle sorcerer (to fix my hitpoints)

A fangshield druid (they get nice abilities)
Or an urban druid (wildshaping into a humanoid is convenient roleplay wise)

[Beni-Kujaku]

Do you wanna play as a bonsai or do you wanna play as an animal? If it's the former, I'd not recommend playing a druid. Half the appeal of playing ultra-exotic races like that is figuring out how to surmount challenges like "no hand, no speech, and constant pain from being prevented to grow by repeated artificial cuts and shaping of your branches and roots", not bypass them.

Stalwart sorcerer is always good, but if you want to play a "caster", a manifester is probably better. Psions have many more options to communicate, even at really low levels (Missive, Create Sound), that are easily spammable and become even more so at high levels, and crucially do not require you to whisper your words like Message does. I don't think you really have to "fix" your HP. Hardness 5 is extremely good as a way to stave off damage, at least for the first levels, and at higher levels people will prefer attacking your saves rather than trying to hit a rogue with Evasion and probably inertial armor. Also, Surrogate Spellcasting doesn't work for a bonsai, since it requires "vocal organs" on your part.

That said, I'm a bit disappointed by how caster classes use your innate qualities. High Dex and Tiny size really point me towards something like a Psychic Rogue, maybe with a level of Unarmed Swordsage to be able to use your unarmed strike with iteratives instead of your slam, and to gain access to lots of maneuvers to diversify your game style. Also, you can disguise yourself as an unassuming pîece of furniture, which is always a plus.

[Metastachydium]

Yup. Manifester seems like a good path to pick. A good DEX plus Tiny size would also be fun on a blaster Warlock and that land speed would do wonders combined with Fell Flight. It wouldn't do much for the hp issues, admittedly, but… Seriously, why are you even using that horribly obtuse RAW reading of awakened trees being the only living creatures with a baffling lack of a CON score?

[Beni-Kujaku]

Yup. Manifester seems like a good path to pick. A good DEX plus Tiny size would also be fun on a blaster Warlock and that land speed would do wonders combined with Fell Flight. It wouldn't do much for the hp issues, admittedly, but… Seriously, why are you even using that horribly obtuse RAW reading of awakened trees being the only living creatures with a baffling lack of a CON score?

I mean, if it makes you immune to energy drain and death effects...

[Remuko]

It wouldn't do much for the hp issues, admittedly, but… Seriously, why are you even using that horribly obtuse RAW reading of awakened trees being the only living creatures with a baffling lack of a CON score?

yeah i came to say this. its goofy as heck that a tree, a living thing, has no con. i know the spell says "treat as an awakened object" but there should have been some part explaining that they get/should have a con score since theyre not objects, theyre not constructs. theyre living things. ugh this bothers me a lot lol

[paladinn]

I am Groot

[Metastachydium]

I mean, if it makes you immune to energy drain and death effects...

I don't care. Plant immunities are awesome as they are and we have this thing called dignity!


yeah i came to say this. its goofy as heck that a tree, a living thing, has no con. i know the spell says "treat as an awakened object" but there should have been some part explaining that they get/should have a con score since theyre not objects, theyre not constructs. theyre living things. ugh this bothers me a lot lol

Thank you! This oversight is at a level of dumb that is a class of its own. I very honestly don't understand why are there tables that don't just ignore it and pretend that the spell makes actual sense.

[Chronos]

Heck, even non-awakened trees, or other non-creature plants, have Con scores.

[Anthrowhale]

I don't care. Plant immunities are awesome as they are and we have this thing called dignity!

Plant immunities are good but a constitution nonability adds immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, fortitude saves vs harmful effects not affecting objects, and immunity to fatigue/exhaustion. Layering that with the plant immunities to mind-affecting, polymorph, and critical hits with no need to sleep provides a comprehensive set. That's a better shutdown than undead, which are vulnerable to PAO.

For the OP, to grab some HP, take Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Psion synergizes with that well. If you want to leverage the speed and size, consider using Slayer.

[thethird]

How much do you weight? Can you ride your flying psicrystal like a kokedama?

Psion seems like a good way to go. What level are you starting?

[Wintermoot]

I mean... you are a bonsai tree.... kind of seems like you have to be a monk.

Or ninja maybe.

[Soranar]

Psions have many more options to communicate, even at really low levels (Missive, Create Sound), that are easily spammable and become even more so at high levels, and crucially do not require you to whisper your words like Message does.

awaken makes you able to talk so the communication thing is not really an issue

[loky1109]

Heck, even non-awakened trees, or other non-creature plants, have Con scores.
Where did you take it from?

[Saintheart]

No levels in Samurai? Seriously, the one time in your gaming experience you get to be a Banzai Bonsai and you're not going to use it?

[Wintermoot]

awaken makes you able to talk so the communication thing is not really an issue

Sadly, the bonzai tree can only speak in haiku proverbs, but still....

[Maat Mons]

I'd go Psion (Telepath) with that Mind's Eye ACF that gives Telepathy instead of the 5th-level bonus feat. Then you can RP as the evil mind-controlling cactus from Outlaw Star whose plan for world domination somehow involved convincing people to buy low-quality ice cream. … In retrospect, it was a bit of a silly show.

[ShurikVch]

(not having a CON score is hard on the hitpoints)
How about to instead of Awaken to use Liveoak and play as Tiny-sized Treant?

[Soranar]

Plant immunities are good but a constitution nonability adds immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, fortitude saves vs harmful effects not affecting objects, and immunity to fatigue/exhaustion. Layering that with the plant immunities to mind-affecting, polymorph, and critical hits with no need to sleep provides a comprehensive set. That's a better shutdown than undead, which are vulnerable to PAO.

For the OP, to grab some HP, take Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Psion synergizes with that well. If you want to leverage the speed and size, consider using Slayer.

I checked on faeries mysteries initiate , looks like it's dragon magazine material but , even if it's not, it doesn't change the issue since the feat doesn't say : add your intelligence modifier to your hitpoints, it says add your intelligence modifier instead

but I don't have a CON modifier , my CON is - so the feat doesn't work

[Soranar]

How about to instead of Awaken to use Liveoak and play as Tiny-sized Treant?

liveoak has a duration so, even if it's permanent somehow, a dispel would essentially kill me

[Anthrowhale]

I checked on faeries mysteries initiate , looks like it's dragon magazine material but , even if it's not, it doesn't change the issue since the feat doesn't say : add your intelligence modifier to your hitpoints, it says add your intelligence modifier instead

but I don't have a CON modifier , my CON is - so the feat doesn't work

The SRD says (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities) it's +0.

The modifier for a nonability is +0.

[Saintheart]

Sadly, the bonzai tree can only speak in haiku proverbs, but still....


To build a PC
With only Tier 5 options
Is sad and futile

[ShurikVch]

liveoak has a duration so, even if it's permanent somehow, a dispel would essentially kill me
I have bad news for you: spells without duration can be dispelled too.
Break Enchantment (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm):

Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect.
Thus, Awaken can be dispelled too (which "would essentially kill" you anyway). Would be prudent to invest in protection from dispels...

[Maat Mons]

I guess you'd need to make sure the Druid who created you used a Heightened Awaken, to put it above that 5th-level cutoff for Break Enchantment.

[Soranar]

I have bad news for you: spells without duration can be dispelled too.
Break Enchantment (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm):

Thus, Awaken can be dispelled too (which "would essentially kill" you anyway). Would be prudent to invest in protection from dispels...

Ok well that settles it.

I need to be able to cast an empowered awaken to prevent this from happening. Ideally and empowered maximized but that'd be tricky to pull off.

I guess this means druid or spirit shaman and druid is just much better overall.

[Wintermoot]

Ok well that settles it.

I need to be able to cast an empowered awaken to prevent this from happening. Ideally and empowered maximized but that'd be tricky to pull off.

I guess this means druid or spirit shaman and druid is just much better overall.

I'm confused. I thought you were the tree, not the druid? The druid who awakened you, is the one who needs to be able to cast the "empowered awaken" to prevent the break enchantment shenanigans. It doesn't matter what you, the tree, can do after.

[Soranar]

I'm confused. I thought you were the tree, not the druid? The druid who awakened you, is the one who needs to be able to cast the "empowered awaken" to prevent the break enchantment shenanigans. It doesn't matter what you, the tree, can do after.

Is there a rule that prevents me from casting an empowered awaken on myself?

[Wintermoot]

Is there a rule that prevents me from casting an empowered awaken on myself?

Well you'd have to already be "awaken"ed to cast it, and one you are "awaken"ed, you are no longer of the correct creature type to have another "awaken" cast on you.

If your "awaken" gets dispelled through break enchantment, your type goes back to the right type, but then you can no longer cast the spell yourself.

[Remuko]

I checked on faeries mysteries initiate , looks like it's dragon magazine material but , even if it's not, it doesn't change the issue since the feat doesn't say : add your intelligence modifier to your hitpoints, it says add your intelligence modifier instead

but I don't have a CON modifier , my CON is - so the feat doesn't work

i dont see the issue here? it says use your int modifier instead of con. the fact you have no con is irrelevant. basically for HP gains it checks con normally, the feat makes it check int instead, so you never look at con to begin with.

[Hish]

I have bad news for you: spells without duration can be dispelled too.
Break Enchantment (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm):

Thus, Awaken can be dispelled too (which "would essentially kill" you anyway). Would be prudent to invest in protection from dispels...

Break Enchantment can reverses instantaneous spells, but it's the only spell short of wish/miracle that I can think of that does that, and it's limited in scope.
This spell frees victims from enchantments, transmutations, and curses... Success means that the creature is free of the spell, curse, or effect. I would definitely rule that that wouldn't apply to awaken. RAI, it's intended to break transmutations like flesh to stone, which is an offensive spell with a clear victim. It's not intended to break every transmutation spell. RAW, the tree isn't a "victim" of awakening. It's the target, sure, but not a victim, and it doesn't make much sense to say they've been "freed" from being a creature.

[Soranar]

Well you'd have to already be "awaken"ed to cast it, and one you are "awaken"ed, you are no longer of the correct creature type to have another "awaken" cast on you.

If your "awaken" gets dispelled through break enchantment, your type goes back to the right type, but then you can no longer cast the spell yourself.

I guess I could write in my backstory that the spell was mass awaken instead

[Soranar]

Ok so I need to be INT based to get extra hitpoints from Initiate of faerie mysteries
and I need a reliable way to deal damage

So how about a warlock?

Spell like abilities don't need hands to cast and eldritch blast is always useful

Go INT based (CHA is honestly optional if you pick the right invocations)

Level 1-6 Warlock
Level 7 Ruathar (for hide and move silently)
Level 8 Assassin (for unseen seer requirements, take sniper's shot
Level 9-18 Unseen Seer (learn golem strike and grave strike)
Levle 19-20 Abjurant Champion (mostly for the hitpoints and BAB)



Feats so far

1 Initiate of faerie mysteries
3 Obtain Familiar (you're tiny so the albatross from stormwrack becomes a flying mount for you)
6 Knowledge devotion
9 Martial Study
12 Martial Stance (giant killing style)
15 open
18 open

[Maat Mons]

Actually, invocations are a special exception to the SLA rules. They do have somatic components. In fact, I think the wording is such that all invocations have somatic components, even the ones based on spells without them.

[Soranar]

Actually, invocations are a special exception to the SLA rules. They do have somatic components. In fact, I think the wording is such that all invocations have somatic components, even the ones based on spells without them.

unlike other spell like abilities they suffer from arcane spell failure from wearing armor

I guess I need surrogate spellcasting

[Anthrowhale]

Replacing Ruathar 1 and Assassin 1 with Rogue 1 and Wizard 1 might be superior? Unless you are playing the multiclass penalties, perhaps. Also Hunter's Eye and Craven are very helpful if you are playing the sneak attack game. And Combat Casting is required for Abjurant Champion.

[Soranar]

Replacing Ruathar 1 and Assassin 1 with Rogue 1 and Wizard 1 might be superior? Unless you are playing the multiclass penalties, perhaps. Also Hunter's Eye and Craven are very helpful if you are playing the sneak attack game. And Combat Casting is required for Abjurant Champion.

pretty sure plants are immune to fear so Craven is a no go

hunter's eye would be nice but that would require 3 levels of assassin spellcasting and since it's only effective with a lot of caster levels, I don't think it's worth it in this case. Maybe if I could cram in 5 levels of abjurant champion somehow, I'll think about it

and yeah we do play with multiclass penalties and awakened plants don't have a favored class

[Soranar]

Ok my DM refused Initiate of faerie mysteries so being INT based is pointless.

I guess the only bonus hitpoints I can think of come from psionics

Psionic body gives you +2 per psionic feat and wilder ACF gives you a bunch of bonus feats +1d6 hitpoints so I'll go with that.

So

Educated wilder.

1 Hidden talent: astral construct
3 Psionic body
5 expanded knowledge :
6
9 expanded knowledge:
12
13 expanded knowledge:
15
17 expanded knowledge:
18

With 10 psionic feats that's +20 hitpoints. It's not much but it's better than nothing. I can manifest powers without hands, wear armor and a shield (the armor might weirdly shaped and the shield might have to be strapped to a limb but that should work).

[Arael666]

I mean... you are a bonsai tree.... kind of seems like you have to be a monk.

Or ninja maybe.

A tashalatora ardent/monk would fit and still manifest

[Remuko]

Ok my DM refused Initiate of faerie mysteries so being INT based is pointless.

did your DM say why? its not like its OP or anything, especially on an awakened tree...you not having con as a living plant is already goofy, its the least the DM could do for you is allow that.

[Maat Mons]

FMI requires an "exuberant sexual act" be performed with someone else who has the feat. Maybe there just aren't any Awakened honey bees with FMI around.

[Soranar]

did your DM say why? its not like its OP or anything, especially on an awakened tree...you not having con as a living plant is already goofy, its the least the DM could do for you is allow that.

It's dragon magazine material, unless it was reprinted in an official book or in dragon compendium it's a no go because of that.

The ridiculousness of how the feat what achieved didn't matter that much

I already have a 60 ft speed tiny race with 18 CHA, honestly I can't complain.

I considered an ardent (and playing one with dragontouched to get dragonscale husk) but, compared to an educated wilder with hidden talent,

the power selection is suboptimal

-even though you get more power knowns you're forced to take weaker powers because of it

the lack of bonus feats makes psionic body far less interesting

tashalatora for unarmed strikes

-I'm a tiny thing with 8 STR : my unarmed strike damage would be pathetic for a very long time. I'm better off manifestings powers and concentrating on that than trying to make some sort of melee character with low hitpoints

tashalatora for AC

-the AC bonus sounds ok but a wilder is proficient with light armor and shields that means I get +6 AC from wearing a chain shirt with dastana and Chahar-aina. Sure I get a penalty for buying an armor made for a non humanoid but, since I'm tiny, it's just the same price as a regular armor anyway. I can also use a kappa shell (found in oriental adventure) which grants +10 AC, pseudo evasion and 9/10 cover in exchange for reducing my speed in half , that's totally worth it for a manifester with 60 base speed
-finally elude touch gives me my armor bonus to touch attacks too

I'd consider a prestige class if it gave me something better than just bonus expanded knowledge but that's about it

[Anthrowhale]

Maybe something using prestige classes? Fighter 1/Ardent 4/Iron Mind 10/Sanctified Mind 5 has BAB 16, 4d6+5d8+11d10 hit points, and if you pick up Practiced Manifester you access top level powers.

[Remuko]

FMI requires an "exuberant sexual act" be performed with someone else who has the feat. Maybe there just aren't any Awakened honey bees with FMI around.

it says sensual not sexual.


Passions: You and your partner engage in an exuberant sensual act.

finding someone else with the feat seems the hardest part. it benefits both of you and since its sensual not sexual i dont see who the partner is mattering much.



It's dragon magazine material, unless it was reprinted in an official book or in dragon compendium it's a no go because of that.

thats fair

[Bohandas]

You could play as a samaurai and be a BANZAI! Tree