Is this item even possible?

[Melcar]

Hellow fellow scribes...

I have been thinking about an item as part of some thought experiment and I wanted to run in by the forum collective to hear about its viability in terms of RAW - in as much as custom items can be discussed RAW.

So, I was thinking whether or not it would be possible - within the rules - to create a massive tome, which contained every spell in the game, which then could be cast by command word, just like using a ring of invisibility.

So the idea is, that you carry this around like an off-hand in wow, and when needing some spell be it divine or arcane you flip to the section you need and cast the spell. Clearly, holding to entire body of spells would make this item cost a cosmic amount of money, and xp to create, but my question is really more about whether or not it is possible?

Would it be possibe to enchant an item the about 4500 times each time added a single spell, from all sources, for this item to be created?

Thanks

[thethird]

Get an item that casts wish and miracle, with an arbitrary restriction of only being able to use it for spells. Decide whether you want to be able to spend some additional xp for spells that require XP costs.

That would get you all level 8th and lower wizard/sorcerer/cleric spells, and 7th and lower for other classes.

That's cheaper than going with all individual spells. if you need any other spell you can add if individually.

[Thurbane]

It would be an artifact, and magnitudes more powerful than even the Book of Infinite Spells (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#bookofInfiniteSpells).

[Alabenson]

It would be an artifact, and magnitudes more powerful than even the Book of Infinite Spells (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#bookofInfiniteSpells).

Basically this.

It's possible in that there are readily established rules to accomplish what you're describing, but we're talking about a magical item that would have a price in multiple millions of gp. This is very much something that would be a major artifact, the sort of thing that an entire campaign would be built around.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could always do something similar to the Psionic Pspellbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook&p=23801600&viewfull=1#post23801600).

[shaikujin]

Cheaper and less versatile option is the Tome of Ancient Lore. 22,000 gp.

It' a relic though, so there are requirements.

[Biggus]

Would it be possibe to enchant an item the about 4500 times each time added a single spell, from all sources, for this item to be created?


Where did you get the 4500 figure from?

I don't see that there's anything in the rules stopping you, if you have Craft Epic Wondrous Item and unlimited time, money and XP.

Assuming the 4500 figure is correct and that I've done my sums right, the base price is going to be somewhere in the region of 300-400 million GP. If the "multiple similar abilities" rule is applicable, about half that.

The main practical barrier to even a level 100+ character making it is the fact that it's going to cost 6 million XP or more. But as you can add new powers to existing items without limit, there's nothing to stop you making a basic version, then going and going some adventuring to get some more XP, then adding some more spells.

If you alternate days between gaining XP and spending it, never resting, you could have it made in a few thousand years, or just a few hundred if you have the Efficient Item Creation epic feat.

[Beni-Kujaku]

According to ImarvinTPA (http://imarvintpa.com/dndlive/FindSpell.php) (not completely accurate, there are spells missing and a few homebrews, but it should make a good first approximation), there are 126 8th and 9th level sorc/wiz spells not on the cleric spell list, 36 9th level cleric spells (including Miracle), and 37 8th or 9th level Druid (not cleric or sorc/wiz) spells. Having Miracle at will at CL 20 (only spell-replicating purposes, so no XP cost) would cost 324k gp. Having all other spells 1/day (total 198 spells, also at CL 20) would cost about 12 million gp (or 60 million if at will).

Note that this isn't including any XP cost for spells included in the item, which would probably double or triple that cost, and I'm not sure you even can put Corrupt and Sanctified spells in an item. Even if you could, you'd have to prepare Apocalypse from the sky a properly terrifying number of times for it to work (dealing you 1d3 Wis damage each time, but that's no real problem if you can cast Miracle at will).

All in all, even with Extraordinary Artisan and the Efficient item Creation epic feat, this monumental item would take between 3 and 15 years to complete. Only a dragon would have the patience to do that, the funds necessary, and the power to protect themselves against adventuring party trying to prevent them from doing it.

[YellowJohn]

Ok, my turn :smallcool:

If we include Dragon Magazine and Website content, then by my count there are 3767 unique spells in D&D 3.5 - although this does include ten spells that are no longer on any spell lists and I'm not quite sure what to do with... but I digress.

Taking each of the remaining 3757 spells, and assuming each has been cast at the lowest spell level it becomes available, there are:

90 (!) Cantrips
555 L1
666 L2
627 L3
542 L2
402 L3
295 L4
232 L5
175 L8
173 L9

The formula for a Command Word Activated spell is Spell Level x Caster Level x 1800gp. Then we apply this:


Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body (see Magic Items on the Body, page 214), use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities. (The many spell-like powers of a staff of power are a good example of multiple similar abilities).

Assuming every spell in the item has the same caster level of 17 (the minimum caster level necessary to cast the 9ths), that is

219,639,150gp

That is before adding the extra cost for XP and material components - an exercise I will have to leave to the OP for now (though I should probably add columns for these things to my master spreadsheet) - 250gp/Xp point & 50gp/gp*

*(5gp/XP or 1gp/gp per charge, calculated as though it had 100 charges, then halved for 'multiple similar abilities').

[AvatarVecna]

The good news about this item being obviously deep epic is that you could easily have an epic spell that creates a Hyperbolic Time Chamber, making it a matter of possibly even just moments to craft the whole thing, provided you had all the resources on hand to do it in the first place.

[Gruftzwerg]

...
but my question is really more about whether or not it is possible?
...


What is possible ... from an optimizer's perspective:

UMD a Rod of Absorption (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#absorption).

You can emulate the Class Feature to know spells from any spontaneous caster. Because "spells known" is a class feature we can emulate, but we can't emulate having prepared spells (because that is a status effect and we can't emulate that). So all spells available for spontaneous casters are available tough the rod, if your UMD roll is high enough. "UMD -20" is your effective lvl in the emulated class.
Sole downside is that you need to charge it first (up to 50 charges) and can't recharge it (after 50 charges the item becomes useless. It's like an expensive "consumable").

In the hands of an UMD expert, this item gets more powerful then for real casters.

[noob]

Hellow fellow scribes...

I have been thinking about an item as part of some thought experiment and I wanted to run in by the forum collective to hear about its viability in terms of RAW - in as much as custom items can be discussed RAW.

So, I was thinking whether or not it would be possible - within the rules - to create a massive tome, which contained every spell in the game, which then could be cast by command word, just like using a ring of invisibility.

So the idea is, that you carry this around like an off-hand in wow, and when needing some spell be it divine or arcane you flip to the section you need and cast the spell. Clearly, holding to entire body of spells would make this item cost a cosmic amount of money, and xp to create, but my question is really more about whether or not it is possible?

Would it be possibe to enchant an item the about 4500 times each time added a single spell, from all sources, for this item to be created?

Thanks
Relatively easy: miracle with 50000 xp at will + wish with 50000 xp at will + all other ninth+ all non wizard non cleric eighth level spells at will: lower level spells are all covered by wish or miracle.
The cost is probably really big but it is to be excepted for having all the spells.
Now the issue is: will the gm let you craft this item even if you have the money for it?

[Biggus]

Ok, my turn :smallcool:

If we include Dragon Magazine and Website content, then by my count there are 3767 unique spells in D&D 3.5 - although this does include ten spells that are no longer on any spell lists and I'm not quite sure what to do with... but I digress.

Taking each of the remaining 3757 spells, and assuming each has been cast at the lowest spell level it becomes available, there are:

90 (!) Cantrips
555 L1
666 L2
627 L3
542 L2
402 L3
295 L4
232 L5
175 L8
173 L9

The formula for a Command Word Activated spell is Spell Level x Caster Level x 1800gp. Then we apply this:



Assuming every spell in the item has the same caster level of 17 (the minimum caster level necessary to cast the 9ths), that is

219,639,150gp

That is before adding the extra cost for XP and material components - an exercise I will have to leave to the OP for now (though I should probably add columns for these things to my master spreadsheet) - 250gp/Xp point & 50gp/gp*

*(5gp/XP or 1gp/gp per charge, calculated as though it had 100 charges, then halved for 'multiple similar abilities').

OK, that's a much more detailed analysis than mine, I just took an average spell level and caster level and multiplied it by 4500. And I'll admit I forgot about material and XP components. Looks like my ballpark figure wasn't that far off though.

[YellowJohn]

I've just finished cataloguing all the spells & plugging them into the biggest spreadsheet I've ever made.
There's still a question or two to iron out, but it made the analysis relatively simple.

[Crake]

*(5gp/XP or 1gp/gp per charge, calculated as though it had 100 charges, then halved for 'multiple similar abilities').

These price modifiers are not affected by cost reduction methods, because they are not actually adjustments to the base price, nor do they affect an item’s craft time, they are simply an additional cost that the crafter has to provide. You dont, for example, reduce the wish xp cost per charge of a ring of three wishes just because you made it elf only, its only the base price thats affected.

[pabelfly]

Ok, my turn :smallcool:

If we include Dragon Magazine and Website content, then by my count there are 3767 unique spells in D&D 3.5 - although this does include ten spells that are no longer on any spell lists and I'm not quite sure what to do with... but I digress.

So let's assume the spells actually exist and have a spell level, they're just not on any caster list which makes most of the regular "add spells to your spell list" solutions invalid.

I have a solution: Master Specialist. At 2nd, 5th and 8th level "you can add one spell of your chosen school to your spellbook. The spell can be of any level that you can cast, and it is in addition to the normal spells gained when increasing your level." Unlike other prestige classes that let you add spells, this one doesn't specify that this has to be in any class's spell list, so I'd argue that this could legitimately pick the spells that aren't on any class list, as long as you're in the right school.

The other solution is Boccob's Reading Room from Complete Mage. "A Spellcaster who prepares spells can write one new spell of any level he can cast into his spellbook." Sounds like if a prospective DM was willing to play ball with you, you can get your spells this way too.

[icefractal]

I did sorta make this once, in a very high-power short campaign -

"The Miracle Engine", a sentient piece of magic architecture (which somewhat resembled GLaDOS but less murderous), with Miracle and Gate (travel version only) at will. Its primarily purpose was to spam Magnificent Mansion a bunch and connect them via Gates into a town-sized "super mansion", but I realized that with all the functions I wanted it was simpler to use Miracle than MMM + TK + Scrying + a bunch of others. Miracle is much cheaper than Wish for emulating spells. Some people might consider putting Miracle into a magic item sacrilegious, but I was already an Archivist so eh.

It was suitable for that campaign, but in general might be considered more like "minor artifact" level. What the OP's proposing is probably major artifact level in most campaigns, but in a very high-power one it might be fine. In which case, yeah, start with Wish and Miracle and you won't need that many others.

[Chronos]

One way to make this book more plausible (though still well into the artifact power level) would be for it to provide only the knowledge of the spells, not the power: To use it, you still have to expend your own spell slots, like a universal runestaff.

[noob]

So let's assume the spells actually exist and have a spell level, they're just not on any caster list which makes most of the regular "add spells to your spell list" solutions invalid.

I have a solution: Master Specialist. At 2nd, 5th and 8th level "you can add one spell of your chosen school to your spellbook. The spell can be of any level that you can cast, and it is in addition to the normal spells gained when increasing your level." Unlike other prestige classes that let you add spells, this one doesn't specify that this has to be in any class's spell list, so I'd argue that this could legitimately pick the spells that aren't on any class list, as long as you're in the right school.

The other solution is Boccob's Reading Room from Complete Mage. "A Spellcaster who prepares spells can write one new spell of any level he can cast into his spellbook." Sounds like if a prospective DM was willing to play ball with you, you can get your spells this way too.

The issue is that having a spell in your spellbook does not means you can cast it, "Spells: A wizard casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and bards), which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list (page 192). A wizard must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below)." not "can cast any spell in their spellbook"
By the way the spellbook spell copying rules does not specifies at all that the copied spell must be a wizard spell which means that you do not need special prcs to add non wizard spells to your spellbook not that it will serve any purpose except for triggering spell known boosts (some spells when known gives you boosts, they never specify that you have to know it and be able to cast it)

[Melcar]

I've just finished cataloguing all the spells & plugging them into the biggest spreadsheet I've ever made.
There's still a question or two to iron out, but it made the analysis relatively simple.

Wow... cool. Any chance you would want to share that spreadsheet?

[YellowJohn]

Wow... cool. Any chance you would want to share that spreadsheet?

Yes, but I'm not sure on the forum rules for sharing it here.
Also, it's not quite finished - one issue to iron out :smallsmile: